Help from TEFL teachers

[bundoi]

It was way back in 1977 when I first heard of TEFL methods.

To be honest, I thought they sounded fairly primitive at that time, have they improved since then?

Edited December 15, 2013 by bundoi

[AJ Alex]

I don't have a TEFL qual but I have a PGCE and I have been teaching English in Thailand, The TEFL is flawed because it is impossible to teach English well, without using any Thai. This is something that the companies who sell the TEFL courses say. "come over and teacher English to Thai kids, you don't need to speak Thai" They say this so they can sell lots of tefl courses. It is simply a money making scam. If you have a Thai teacher in the room when you are teaching then this will help a lot. Although most tefl agencies will put you in a room on your own. Having a foreign teacher in a school in Thailiand is more about status not actually improving the kids English. Hence a degree in David Beckham and a 4 week tefl course can qualify you to teach English anywhere in the country from the ages of 4-18....CRAZY

[SlyAnimal]

I don't have a TEFL qual but I have a PGCE and I have been teaching English in Thailand, The TEFL is flawed because it is impossible to teach English well, without using any Thai. This is something that the companies who sell the TEFL courses say. "come over and teacher English to Thai kids, you don't need to speak Thai" They say this so they can sell lots of tefl courses. It is simply a money making scam. If you have a Thai teacher in the room when you are teaching then this will help a lot. Although most tefl agencies will put you in a room on your own. Having a foreign teacher in a school in Thailiand is more about status not actually improving the kids English. Hence a degree in David Beckham and a 4 week tefl course can qualify you to teach English anywhere in the country from the ages of 4-18....CRAZY

I'll bite.

Actually if you're teaching English as a Foreign Language, a TEFL qualification would be on par with a PGCE (Unless you took specific papers in Teaching English as a Second/Foreign Language).

As in general, a TEFL qualification focuses specifically on TEFL, and only briefly addresses many other teaching skills (Like curriculum development, teaching students with special needs and classroom management etc). However by comparison, a PGCE generally focuses much more attention on the other teaching skills, but only briefly addresses TEFL teaching skills/techniques.

Although in reality, both of these simply chart the course for a teacher, their own qualities are what will dictate whether they are a good teacher or not. In comparison, a BEdu covers more ground than a PGCE, particularly as it has more room for students to take papers related to TEFL.

Thai isn't required when teaching, although it does make some things easier. Particularly administrative tasks and informing students about the requirements for passing, it also prevents them from openly abusing you without your knowledge lol.

But if you had of done your TEFL certificate, rather than a PGCE, you'd likely have less problems Teaching English as a Foreign Language, and so wouldn't feel like speaking Thai was a requirement for teaching. But in saying that, if I'd taken a PGCE I'd probably gotten my M2 class under control within a few lessons, instead of spending half of last term "going to war" lol (They have 7 flamboyant ladyboys and 3 ADD kids constantly disrupting the lesson, without any discipline systems being in place by the school itself, so teachers need to enforce class discipline/control by themselves), but then the Thai teachers also consider teaching their class as a "visit to the zoo". So as I say, both qualifications chart the course, but neither will, by itself, make you a good TEFL teacher.

And yes, many schools in Thailand are more focused on their teachers being seen, than their teaching ability, but this doesn't mean that it's their only consideration, or that the same applies to all schools. Many schools recognise that most Thai bachelor degree holders, who majored in English, are far from proficient in the language. Likewise they recognise that someone who studied David Beckham at Oxford and has been speaking English every day for the past 40 years is probably more qualified to teach than a Thai teacher who graduated from Rajabhat Everyonepasses who can't even put 2 correct sentences together.

As a bit of a disclaimer, there are a lot of absolutely terrible teachers out there with TEFL certificates. This is due to the TEFL qualifications industry being largely unregulated, whereby some schools allow everyone to pass, or even offer courses which are 100% online. Likewise just by virtue of being a native English speaker (NES) doesn't mean that they'll be a good/suitable teacher (Some NESs do have less than ideal grammar, poor spelling and use excessive slang, while others simply don't have the personality traits which help to define a "good teacher"). Many registered teachers in western countries would also not be good TEFL teachers, as the personality traits required are different, much the same as kindergarten / primary school / high school require different personality traits from teachers.

@OP - Anyone who was teaching in 1977 would have been teaching EFL for over 35 years, I don't know if there are many teachers who could give you a comparison. Perhaps you could make your question a little more broad.

[AJ Alex]

Thanks SlyAnimal for an interesting and detailed response. I guess it's the disciplining and classroom management that has been the most difficult for me. Although you would think with a PGCE this would not be an issue. I never had any problems with unruly behavior when teaching in the UK. But my disciplining techniques will simply not work over here as I do not have to vocab to "tell them off". I got told Thai learners are respectful of their teachers. But it appears this is not always the case. In February I will be able to teach a different subject which i'm more passionate about and it will be to English speaking learners so i'm hoping I can rely on my old methods a little more.

Thanks again for the response

[silent]

It's not a good sign if everything way back when here, wasn't a bit more primitive than it is today. Is that not so, or can we really not tell?

[Leung Falang]

I don't have a TEFL qual but I have a PGCE and I have been teaching English in Thailand, The TEFL is flawed because it is impossible to teach English well, without using any Thai. This is something that the companies who sell the TEFL courses say. "come over and teacher English to Thai kids, you don't need to speak Thai" They say this so they can sell lots of tefl courses. It is simply a money making scam. If you have a Thai teacher in the room when you are teaching then this will help a lot. Although most tefl agencies will put you in a room on your own. Having a foreign teacher in a school in Thailiand is more about status not actually improving the kids English. Hence a degree in David Beckham and a 4 week tefl course can qualify you to teach English anywhere in the country from the ages of 4-18....CRAZY

I'll bite.

Actually if you're teaching English as a Foreign Language, a TEFL qualification would be on par with a PGCE (Unless you took specific papers in Teaching English as a Second/Foreign Language).

As in general, a TEFL qualification focuses specifically on TEFL, and only briefly addresses many other teaching skills (Like curriculum development, teaching students with special needs and classroom management etc). However by comparison, a PGCE generally focuses much more attention on the other teaching skills, but only briefly addresses TEFL teaching skills/techniques.

Although in reality, both of these simply chart the course for a teacher, their own qualities are what will dictate whether they are a good teacher or not. In comparison, a BEdu covers more ground than a PGCE, particularly as it has more room for students to take papers related to TEFL.

Thai isn't required when teaching, although it does make some things easier. Particularly administrative tasks and informing students about the requirements for passing, it also prevents them from openly abusing you without your knowledge lol.

But if you had of done your TEFL certificate, rather than a PGCE, you'd likely have less problems Teaching English as a Foreign Language, and so wouldn't feel like speaking Thai was a requirement for teaching. But in saying that, if I'd taken a PGCE I'd probably gotten my M2 class under control within a few lessons, instead of spending half of last term "going to war" lol (They have 7 flamboyant ladyboys and 3 ADD kids constantly disrupting the lesson, without any discipline systems being in place by the school itself, so teachers need to enforce class discipline/control by themselves), but then the Thai teachers also consider teaching their class as a "visit to the zoo". So as I say, both qualifications chart the course, but neither will, by itself, make you a good TEFL teacher.

And yes, many schools in Thailand are more focused on their teachers being seen, than their teaching ability, but this doesn't mean that it's their only consideration, or that the same applies to all schools. Many schools recognise that most Thai bachelor degree holders, who majored in English, are far from proficient in the language. Likewise they recognise that someone who studied David Beckham at Oxford and has been speaking English every day for the past 40 years is probably more qualified to teach than a Thai teacher who graduated from Rajabhat Everyonepasses who can't even put 2 correct sentences together.

As a bit of a disclaimer, there are a lot of absolutely terrible teachers out there with TEFL certificates. This is due to the TEFL qualifications industry being largely unregulated, whereby some schools allow everyone to pass, or even offer courses which are 100% online. Likewise just by virtue of being a native English speaker (NES) doesn't mean that they'll be a good/suitable teacher (Some NESs do have less than ideal grammar, poor spelling and use excessive slang, while others simply don't have the personality traits which help to define a "good teacher"). Many registered teachers in western countries would also not be good TEFL teachers, as the personality traits required are different, much the same as kindergarten / primary school / high school require different personality traits from teachers.

@OP - Anyone who was teaching in 1977 would have been teaching EFL for over 35 years, I don't know if there are many teachers who could give you a comparison. Perhaps you could make your question a little more broad.

My Thai wife and I volunteer a lot and organize camps with US church teams that try to reduce the fear of foreigners and improve the speaking ability of students, mostly in middle school. We see Thai teachers having a really difficult time of keeping classes from a "visit to the zoo". Since we are not teachers (some team member are) and since we have been asked by some Thai teachers "what can I do?", what are your secrets to keeping class time orderly?

Edited December 18, 2013 by Leung Falang

[SlyAnimal]

Every class, indeed every student, is motivated by something different. E.g. Some want good grades, some want attention, some want recognition from the teacher and some don't want anything, but will work to avoid punishment. But even different punishments have significantly different effects on each student.

I still have trouble with some of the students in the class I mentioned, but through understanding a little about what motivates each student I can usually get them to learn a little. It's definitely easier in other classes though, where 90% of the students are motivated by the same thing.

Learning all of the students nicknames did help a lot though, as being able to call out their name is a quick way to get their attention and correct their behavior.

Likewise clamping down on discipline during the first week via a slightly over the top punishment works well with initially stamping your authority.

But I don't know if either of those would really apply to a few days in an English camp. English camps I tend to just roll with it and focus on letting them enjoy the activities.

[Eddy B]

Every class, indeed every student, is motivated by something different. E.g. Some want good grades, some want attention, some want recognition from the teacher and some don't want anything, but will work to avoid punishment. But even different punishments have significantly different effects on each student. I still have trouble with some of the students in the class I mentioned, but through understanding a little about what motivates each student I can usually get them to learn a little. It's definitely easier in other classes though, where 90% of the students are motivated by the same thing. Learning all of the students nicknames did help a lot though, as being able to call out their name is a quick way to get their attention and correct their behavior. Likewise clamping down on discipline during the first week via a slightly over the top punishment works well with initially stamping your authority. But I don't know if either of those would really apply to a few days in an English camp. English camps I tend to just roll with it and focus on letting them enjoy the activities.

I totally agree with what SlyAnimal has written. Get to know the students by nick name, get to know what the individual students are interested in and try and mix it in with classroom lessons. Most of the guys especially like football/soccer, so I usually have some banter about the teams and who won or lost over the weekend. Girls are more interested in fashiion or celebs, so I sometimes spend a few mintues at the weekend looking through my wifes mags to keep up to date on the lasted news. It's all about making a connection thats friendly but also shows that even though I maybe 20 yrs older than them I am still in the know and not a complete fossil in their eyes. That way you can do a warm-up exercise at the start of class and it gets them talking without even thinking about it.

[flyingdoc]

Interest, learning nicknames and adopting a firm presence right from Day 1, will all help! Too late later on!

[Loaded]

I don't have a TEFL qual but I have a PGCE and I have been teaching English in Thailand, The TEFL is flawed because it is impossible to teach English well, without using any Thai. This is something that the companies who sell the TEFL courses say. "come over and teacher English to Thai kids, you don't need to speak Thai" They say this so they can sell lots of tefl courses. It is simply a money making scam. If you have a Thai teacher in the room when you are teaching then this will help a lot. Although most tefl agencies will put you in a room on your own. Having a foreign teacher in a school in Thailiand is more about status not actually improving the kids English. Hence a degree in David Beckham and a 4 week tefl course can qualify you to teach English anywhere in the country from the ages of 4-18....CRAZY

I don't agree that English should be taught by using Thai in the classroom. This is how Thais teach English. It should be an English-only environment with language graded to the level of the student. it can be done and is effective. A PGCE doesn't equip people with those skills but a good TEFL course will.

[BusyB]

I don't have a TEFL qual but I have a PGCE and I have been teaching English in Thailand, The TEFL is flawed because it is impossible to teach English well, without using any Thai. This is something that the companies who sell the TEFL courses say. "come over and teacher English to Thai kids, you don't need to speak Thai" They say this so they can sell lots of tefl courses. It is simply a money making scam. If you have a Thai teacher in the room when you are teaching then this will help a lot. Although most tefl agencies will put you in a room on your own. Having a foreign teacher in a school in Thailiand is more about status not actually improving the kids English. Hence a degree in David Beckham and a 4 week tefl course can qualify you to teach English anywhere in the country from the ages of 4-18....CRAZY

I don't agree that English should be taught by using Thai in the classroom. This is how Thais teach English. It should be an English-only environment with language graded to the level of the student. it can be done and is effective. A PGCE doesn't equip people with those skills but a good TEFL course will.

Where's a "good" TEFL course to be had? Anyone recommendable come to mind? I'm thinking particularly of the new 6 week courses - I rather fancy a bit less stress and have the time.

[AJ Alex]

There are 35 six year olds in a room. They don't speak any english. You don't speak any Thai. What you gonna do? They will be running round the room screaming and you think a TEFL course can prepare someone for that. I don't think so. I studied TEFL in Hua Hin but I never paid for the qual at the end as i knew i wouldn't need it. Having a Thai teacher to control the 6 year old and an NES to teach english works really well. Or learn how to say sit down and shut up in Thai and use it in the classrooms. What else can you do?

[Loaded]

I don't have a TEFL qual but I have a PGCE and I have been teaching English in Thailand, The TEFL is flawed because it is impossible to teach English well, without using any Thai. This is something that the companies who sell the TEFL courses say. "come over and teacher English to Thai kids, you don't need to speak Thai" They say this so they can sell lots of tefl courses. It is simply a money making scam. If you have a Thai teacher in the room when you are teaching then this will help a lot. Although most tefl agencies will put you in a room on your own. Having a foreign teacher in a school in Thailiand is more about status not actually improving the kids English. Hence a degree in David Beckham and a 4 week tefl course can qualify you to teach English anywhere in the country from the ages of 4-18....CRAZY

I don't agree that English should be taught by using Thai in the classroom. This is how Thais teach English. It should be an English-only environment with language graded to the level of the student. it can be done and is effective. A PGCE doesn't equip people with those skills but a good TEFL course will.

Where's a "good" TEFL course to be had? Anyone recommendable come to mind? I'm thinking particularly of the new 6 week courses - I rather fancy a bit less stress and have the time.

Reviews of Thai-based TEFL courses.

http://www.teflcoursereview.com/courses/location/thailand/

[Loaded]

There are 35 six year olds in a room. They don't speak any english. You don't speak any Thai. What you gonna do? They will be running round the room screaming and you think a TEFL course can prepare someone for that. I don't think so. I studied TEFL in Hua Hin but I never paid for the qual at the end as i knew i wouldn't need it. Having a Thai teacher to control the 6 year old and an NES to teach english works really well. Or learn how to say sit down and shut up in Thai and use it in the classrooms. What else can you do?

Some, but not all, TEFL courses offer observed teaching practices in local schools. You can learn to do a lot more than tell them to stand up and sit down. Take a decent course and you will discover that.

[AJ Alex]

Yes I did Study TEFL at a good language school thanks. In my circumstance with the level of english being so low here and the problems I have with a few learners in the class that have learning difficulties, my PGCE and TEFL with observations included still was not enough to prepare me or anyone to teach english to young learners who can say only "cat" and "dog". Classroom management techniques based on the age and level of the learners would be appreciated instead of telling me to do something I have already done. But maybe it's too late for that now as I have a new job at an international school where the pay is double and I can discipline the learners in english not thai... Thank god!

[Loaded]

Yes I did Study TEFL at a good language school thanks. In my circumstance with the level of english being so low here and the problems I have with a few learners in the class that have learning difficulties, my PGCE and TEFL with observations included still was not enough to prepare me or anyone to teach english to young learners who can say only "cat" and "dog". Classroom management techniques based on the age and level of the learners would be appreciated instead of telling me to do something I have already done. But maybe it's too late for that now as I have a new job at an international school where the pay is double and I can discipline the learners in english not thai... Thank god!

Jolly good

[rct99q]

Interest, learning nicknames and adopting a firm presence right from Day 1, will all help! Too late later on!

Just to say and only saying nothing else, if you are wanting to grab their attention and garner a little more respect, learn their Thai names. Not as hard as it sounds. I never was fond of the Beer, Benz, Bai Toey, Nice, peaches etc...all sounded a bit...off.

I studied their names from the register (started with first names) and even if you do not read Thai, with a decent dictionary and a free day you can learn their names. When I walked into my first M.4 class this last semester and started calling out their first names got a few surprised looks and few oh,oh's.

[rct99q]

There are 35 six year olds in a room. They don't speak any english. You don't speak any Thai. What you gonna do? They will be running round the room screaming and you think a TEFL course can prepare someone for that. I don't think so. I studied TEFL in Hua Hin but I never paid for the qual at the end as i knew i wouldn't need it. Having a Thai teacher to control the 6 year old and an NES to teach english works really well. Or learn how to say sit down and shut up in Thai and use it in the classrooms. What else can you do?

Well I do hope you have never told them to "sit down and shut up". A few years ago assisting a P.1 classroom all I had to do was stand at the front of the room and stare at one or two of the real bad ones.......within two minutes I had them all seated. I never let a class start without having control, basic first step. Sometimes it takes a few minutes...one time I waited 7 minutes for them to calm down but it happened only once.

Although I speak okay Thai I have never used it within the class room. Outside with the kids, at the lunch room or around town, certainly. So not sure where you believe speaking Thai will help. It could certainly make it easier.....but that is not the same. I did half a lesson in French once. It took the students all of about 30 seconds to realize I was not speaking English but we still proceeded with a pretty good class.

[recom273]

Interest, learning nicknames and adopting a firm presence right from Day 1, will all help! Too late later on!

Just to say and only saying nothing else, if you are wanting to grab their attention and garner a little more respect, learn their Thai names. Not as hard as it sounds. I never was fond of the Beer, Benz, Bai Toey, Nice, peaches etc...all sounded a bit...off.

I studied their names from the register (started with first names) and even if you do not read Thai, with a decent dictionary and a free day you can learn their names. When I walked into my first M.4 class this last semester and started calling out their first names got a few surprised looks and few oh,oh's.

100% correct .. TT's dont use nicknames

Use their Thai names and it stops them dead in their tracks. More relevant to Mathayom students.

[Scott]

A post has been deleted. Only English is allowed on the open forum. Thai can be used in the Thai language forum.

[inzman]

So who thinks you can teach a Thai kid what the meaning of an English word is without using the Thai translation, of course you need to know some Thai. I can't believe some of the dribble I read here. OK students the word today is "eat" or in Thai gin. Thank you very much. Oh, I know, some of you use charades, haha. Be real would you!

[SlyAnimal]

So who thinks you can teach a Thai kid what the meaning of an English word is without using the Thai translation, of course you need to know some Thai. I can't believe some of the dribble I read here. OK students the word today is "eat" or in Thai gin. Thank you very much. Oh, I know, some of you use charades, haha. Be real would you!

Using pictures or actions helps them to associate the word with an image in their head, rather than just x = y. As sometimes Thai and English words don't directly translate to the same meaning.

Also if you use Thai in the classroom, then the students will become lazy and just wait for you to speak in Thai. And instead of asking you questions in English, they'll ask in Thai.

Half of what we teach, isn't actually what we're teaching. It's all of the stuff in between, it's about putting the students in an environment where they have to listen to and speak in English.

Also sometimes what you've learnt in Thai isn't really the correct word. Or you might pronounce it incorrectly and have the students take you at face value. Can you imagine teaching near and far just via grammar translation, unless your Thai tones were quite good, you'd definitely want pictures or actions lol.

The Thai teachers can just tell the students the words in English and Thai. We're employed not only because we speak English, but also because the students don't expect us to speak Thai.

[zeichen]

Translation isn't necessary but can be an effective tool. To totally eliminate it from the tool box is silly. Rote learning is another strategy that a lot of teachers refuse to use because it isn't as hip and cool as an interactive approach using multiple intelligent theory. I am one that believes that there are many tools and all have a place. It is important to know when and how to use each one which takes constant assessment and evaluation.

I do think that inzman has no clue what he is talking about. There is nothing wrong wih pantomime, pictures, flash cards, or using previous cognitive thoughts to build up vocabulary.

I personally, do not use Thai in the classroom or whatever native language my students speak. I do think that having them look up words or when a student shares his/her knowledge by translating it isn't the end of the world.

Students do not get lazy by translating. Students can quickly get comprhension of the word. The problem isn't laziness but making the vocabulary being taught go from passive language skills to active language skills. You don't want students to have excellent comprehension and minimal communication.

Students only get lazy when teachers allow them to. It has nothing to do with different strategies for teaching. I will agree that it is nearly impossible for students to get from upper intermediate to advanved abilities without being able to gather new vocabulary through the target language. But for students that are doing test prep or building comprehension ability there is nothing wrong.

Native English speakers can be more than just communication teachers if they learn more skills than just being a native speaker using communicative approach. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Communicative approach is just once simple method and should be built upon and not solely used.

[Scott]

I never used Thai when I taught English. It's not like I didn't try, but my pronunciation was so bad on some words, I just got a blank look.

Younger kids don't need translation -- and I used to teach starters. At that age, thing are pretty physical and actions work well. When they get older, a dictionary works well if they are totally stumped.

[brewsterbudgen]

Most decent language schools (as opposed to regular Thai schools) have an English only environment. The amount of Thai used in English language classes should be nil.

[SlyAnimal]

The Grammar translation method of teaching does have its place in learning. I feel that it has 2 primary uses:

1/ As a last resort. When other methods fail because the students don't have the existing vocabulary you expected.

2/ For self study.

I will also sometimes use Thai in the class for instructions if I'm short on time and for administrative information, where understanding the information is more important than learning.

[monkeyboots]

I studied Thai for 4 years at (a UK) university and was taught in English using none of the 'TEFL' methods (i.e. communicative language teaching stylee). No fluency work, all accuracy. Reading using a translation method, word by word. Listening and being required to write mini essays to test receptive ability. Never using each other as a resource - i.e. pair/group work. The result? Some of us got a First and we ended up with excellent tones. However, none of us could carry out any sort of extended conversation, only barely being able to string a sentence together. As several people have mentioned above, it is generally far more effective to avoid the students' mother tongue in the classroom (while accepting there are a few situations where it can be used). Put the learners in an environment where they need to think and speak in the language they are learning and, if they are motivated, I believe they will do better. Talking about the language you are learning in your mother tongue seems to have severe limitations on learning the language from my experience.

We would have made more progress in communication had our teachers been on some sort of teacher training course, preferably using EFL methods, which far from being primitive are more cutting edge than a lot of those used in state institutions in many parts of the world.

[Jawnie]

I have a CELTA certificate and I'm not sure of the difference with regard to TEFL in practice. I wasn't a teacher when I got the certificate but had lots of years in professional environments in the US. The one month of training for the CELTA was very valuable in that it made me understand making lesson plans and simply giving lessons. Soon after, I spent 2.5 years teaching adults in business settings in Bangkok.

The point I want to make is that Thai and English are very, very different. That is to say, English is a difficult language for Thais and Thai is a very difficult language for English speakers. This really needs to be kept in mind and should moderate criticism of English-speaking Thais. As I said, I taught Thai professionals in many different fields: scientific, business, banking, the sciences, etc. All had studied English for many years, all were college graduates and most in technical or advanced business areas. Most still had great difficulty with word order, verb tenses, compound nouns, and pronunciation.

Maybe this is a little off topic, but the point is not the certificate but rather what you can bring to the classroom knowing and remembering that you are teaching a difficult subject.

[bundoi]

Thanks for all of the replies; I've really found something I agree with in almost all of the posts.

Re the vexed question about teaching in the target or the learner's language; I think it should probably be a combination of both, and that the ratio should vary depending on, for example, the level, the topic and the objective.

I still have a nagging suspicion that the TEFL industry possibly serves the needs of the TEFL industry better than it does the needs of the students in some cases.

[zeichen]

"I still have a nagging suspicion that the TEFL industry possibly serves the needs of the TEFL industry better than it does the needs of the students in some cases."

Tell that to the millions upon millions of non native English speakers that now study abroad, do business and travel the globe.

I think that you actually should do some research into the field of education in general, language acquisition, and TESOL before you make such bold claims.

Personally, the only problem that I have is when parents push students to study a foreign language when they have no desire or lack the skill sets. Or when their native language skills suffer because they are forced to replace it with English.

I am fully proponent of multiculturalism and multilingualism, but hate when people put more value on English than their own native language. Being eloquent in your native language both in writing and speaking is better than being sub par in 2 languages.