What exactly does Suthep mean by political reform?

[englishoak]

It remains unclear what kind of reform they are looking for. Many proposals are not legally valid and some are even undemocratic. The call for a "People's Council" to set new rules and regulations to keep the new election clean is against the 2007 Constitution they themselves sponsored. Unless they amend the charter, the so-called People's Council would be an illegal entity.

I think that just about sums up how unfit to lead this bunch are let alone reform for the better, they would obviously screw it up .... toxin certainly was corrupt this lot are plainly so incompetent and fickle they cant even leave their own sponsored constitution alone for 5 mins ......they now want to or have to alter it to simply be legal ?

Edited December 18, 2013 by englishoak

[diehard60]

"What exactly does Suthep mean by political reform?"

I know what that means to him and that is - He is APPOINTED PM. The Thai people will have no say as to is in power. All post will be appointed.. No voting at all. What kind of government would that be????? Any one know??????????

[Maybole]

Here is what he means : Mememememememememe!

Here is what it means: much more than we are allowed to discuss!

He means, " Iwant to be Pm and get my hands on the money so that I can pay off my cronies and supporters"

[Robby nz]

I see most of the posters on here have absolutely no idea and are so busy slagging off at Suthep that haven't even taken the time to try to find out what he has been saying.

He is not saying he knows everything about what is needed for reforms that is why he is proposing setting up groups of experts to work out exactly what is needed to clean up the corruption, the nepotism, the electoral fraud, the police, how to make the justice system fair for all and he has also mentioned reforming the education system. All things that desperately need to be addressed.

He has said, get these things sorted and if there needs to be constitution changes then take those changes to the people in a referendum, then hold an election.

Sure he not got a squeaky clean past however he has never been convicted of fraud or corruption and he is the only one who has had the guts to stand up and attempt and fight against all the things that PT have been attempting to foist on the country.

Neither can I see anywhere where he has indicated he wants to be PM or even part of any of the groups set up to look into reform.

Meanwhile Yingluck and PT continue coming out with the same platitudes, we have been elected, we represent the majority, we must have elections, we can address the reforms after an election.

If they were serious about addressing reforms they have the options of pulling out of an election then if the other parties do the same the election can be postponed.

If they do that Yingluck could even stay on as caretaker PM as part of an agreement to enter into reforms, but no way, they need things the way they are.

You ask what does Suthep mean by reforms ? Well have PT they ever made any attempt to tell the country what they mean by reforms ? Try asking them.

As I posted before it really comes down to reforms OR an election for whoever wins they cant be trusted to carry on with reform.

[indyuk]

It is a tragedy.

Thailand does not seem to be able to organize unity and justice.

The division of the country appears deeper than ever before.

To find compromises, searching for a better fairer solution, appears alien.

The political system has many faults.

And, unfortunately, the so-called "elected" representatives of the people, take advantage shamelessly only for themselfs.

The necessary changes, reforms and the honorable work of politicians will this country never experience,

as long convicted criminals, corrupt people and only of themselves thinking people sit in Parliament and key positions.

Every Thai I've talked to, all like to be rid of these greedy cancer.

But they do not know how to do it.

As the greatest hope remains the Constitution Court

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/688398-bt2-trillion-loan-bill-halted-pending-court-ruling/

Hopefully the court judges with a variety of parliamentary requirements to be met in the future, no matter who is in power.

Like for all future budgeting processes they make it compulsory for all future governments, that

- the use of money for project proposals are accurately represented in detail and coherent on the last baht.

- the use of money for project proposals is described in detail for all people publicly documented and visible

- Public monthly or quarterly reports on Finance and project progresses.

- Public invitation for project proposals and at least three competitive compare offers.

- Project completion reports including all expenses with receipts.

- a strong supervisory committee composed of members is formed by all parties,

to control the entire investment process without disabilities and time delay restrictions.

The results of the process and progress checks are presented to the parliament.

The members of the supervisory body should rotate so that corruption is impossible or more difficult.

When public funds are used, then the public has the right to see what the representatives of the people plan to do with the money and how it was used.

It must be prevented that a country can be completely plundered by a few unethical people just because they are currently in power.

Some good constructive ideas here. However much of what is proposed here is in place already. The lack of an effective opposition is a major problem that can't be fixed. That is until there is a party in opposition that refrains from from trying to moderate government by going for the Prime Minister's juggler on day one.

Further there is the cultural Thai issues wherein every last citizen wants to be an insider so that they can exploit the system corruptly. PM Thaksin didn't invent corruption in Thai politics it has been the order of the day ever since the Monarchy signed the original constitution.

The only way to find out if the Yingluck government can get Thailand out of the mire that it has been in since the last coups de terre is for PTP run to term.

If the Democrat party had set their stance to being professional in opposition whilst building a stronger political party they could win next election. Should the end result of four years of PTP be disappointing the Democrats might win easily.

"It must be prevented that a country can be completely plundered by a few unethical people just because they are currently in power"

Here the problem is the Thai judiciary which is too easily pushed into a pro elite frame of mind. Not surprising because the are elite themselves and who some say 'feed at the trough' themselves too. To keep blaming the constitution is pointless. Better perhaps to revert to the 1997 constitution which was so effective that Thaksin's enemies had to conspire to enable a military coups to get rid of him. Why not impeach him? They were not prepared to wait! Hugh.

In spite of all the ranting of Suthep and the Abhisit's Democrats both Thaksin and Yingluck were the lawful Prime minister's of Thailand, yet they were illegally driven out without the support of their electorate or Thai Law. Scandalous!

[tomacht8]

It is a tragedy.

Thailand does not seem to be able to organize unity and justice.

The division of the country appears deeper than ever before.

To find compromises, searching for a better fairer solution, appears alien.

The political system has many faults.

And, unfortunately, the so-called "elected" representatives of the people, take advantage shamelessly only for themselfs.

The necessary changes, reforms and the honorable work of politicians will this country never experience,

as long convicted criminals, corrupt people and only of themselves thinking people sit in Parliament and key positions.

Every Thai I've talked to, all like to be rid of these greedy cancer.

But they do not know how to do it.

As the greatest hope remains the Constitution Court

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/688398-bt2-trillion-loan-bill-halted-pending-court-ruling/

Hopefully the court judges with a variety of parliamentary requirements to be met in the future, no matter who is in power.

Like for all future budgeting processes they make it compulsory for all future governments, that

- the use of money for project proposals are accurately represented in detail and coherent on the last baht.

- the use of money for project proposals is described in detail for all people publicly documented and visible

- Public monthly or quarterly reports on Finance and project progresses.

- Public invitation for project proposals and at least three competitive compare offers.

- Project completion reports including all expenses with receipts.

- a strong supervisory committee composed of members is formed by all parties,

to control the entire investment process without disabilities and time delay restrictions.

The results of the process and progress checks are presented to the parliament.

The members of the supervisory body should rotate so that corruption is impossible or more difficult.

When public funds are used, then the public has the right to see what the representatives of the people plan to do with the money and how it was used.

It must be prevented that a country can be completely plundered by a few unethical people just because they are currently in power.

Some good constructive ideas here. However much of what is proposed here is in place already. The lack of an effective opposition is a major problem that can't be fixed. That is until there is a party in opposition that refrains from from trying to moderate government by going for the Prime Minister's juggler on day one.

Further there is the cultural Thai issues wherein every last citizen wants to be an insider so that they can exploit the system corruptly. PM Thaksin didn't invent corruption in Thai politics it has been the order of the day ever since the Monarchy signed the original constitution.

The only way to find out if the Yingluck government can get Thailand out of the mire that it has been in since the last coups de terre is for PTP run to term.

If the Democrat party had set their stance to being professional in opposition whilst building a stronger political party they could win next election. Should the end result of four years of PTP be disappointing the Democrats might win easily.

"It must be prevented that a country can be completely plundered by a few unethical people just because they are currently in power"

Here the problem is the Thai judiciary which is too easily pushed into a pro elite frame of mind. Not surprising because the are elite themselves and who some say 'feed at the trough' themselves too. To keep blaming the constitution is pointless. Better perhaps to revert to the 1997 constitution which was so effective that Thaksin's enemies had to conspire to enable a military coups to get rid of him. Why not impeach him? They were not prepared to wait! Hugh.

In spite of all the ranting of Suthep and the Abhisit's Democrats both Thaksin and Yingluck were the lawful Prime minister's of Thailand, yet they were illegally driven out without the support of their electorate or Thai Law. Scandalous!

Thank you for reflecting.

Just one thought on that:

"The lack of an effective opposition is a major problem that can't be fixed."

mostly true, but it is more.

For example:

The opposition ask the government many times to present or report actual numbers about the rice scheme.

But the government simply do not reply.

The strong separation of public administration and government does not exist or is in many places corrupted.

The opposition can not perform its control function if the government blocks and also the public administration has no information available.

So what options does an opposition in this country have, when there is a suspicion that

state budgets are used for other purposes or even parts going to be robbed?

(From every 100% state Fund, used for projects, maximum of 60% will be used for the purpose, the rest disappears in (un)known dark holes / pockets).

What could be a possible solution to prevent this in the future??

[DK2223]

It is a tragedy.

Thailand does not seem to be able to organize unity and justice.

The division of the country appears deeper than ever before.

To find compromises, searching for a better fairer solution, appears alien.

The political system has many faults.

And, unfortunately, the so-called "elected" representatives of the people, take advantage shamelessly only for themselfs.

The necessary changes, reforms and the honorable work of politicians will this country never experience,

as long convicted criminals, corrupt people and only of themselves thinking people sit in Parliament and key positions.

Every Thai I've talked to, all like to be rid of these greedy cancer.

But they do not know how to do it.

As the greatest hope remains the Constitution Court

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/688398-bt2-trillion-loan-bill-halted-pending-court-ruling/

Hopefully the court judges with a variety of parliamentary requirements to be met in the future, no matter who is in power.

Like for all future budgeting processes they make it compulsory for all future governments, that

- the use of money for project proposals are accurately represented in detail and coherent on the last baht.

- the use of money for project proposals is described in detail for all people publicly documented and visible

- Public monthly or quarterly reports on Finance and project progresses.

- Public invitation for project proposals and at least three competitive compare offers.

- Project completion reports including all expenses with receipts.

- a strong supervisory committee composed of members is formed by all parties,

to control the entire investment process without disabilities and time delay restrictions.

The results of the process and progress checks are presented to the parliament.

The members of the supervisory body should rotate so that corruption is impossible or more difficult.

When public funds are used, then the public has the right to see what the representatives of the people plan to do with the money and how it was used.

It must be prevented that a country can be completely plundered by a few unethical people just because they are currently in power.

Some good constructive ideas here. However much of what is proposed here is in place already. The lack of an effective opposition is a major problem that can't be fixed. That is until there is a party in opposition that refrains from from trying to moderate government by going for the Prime Minister's juggler on day one.

Further there is the cultural Thai issues wherein every last citizen wants to be an insider so that they can exploit the system corruptly. PM Thaksin didn't invent corruption in Thai politics it has been the order of the day ever since the Monarchy signed the original constitution.

The only way to find out if the Yingluck government can get Thailand out of the mire that it has been in since the last coups de terre is for PTP run to term.

If the Democrat party had set their stance to being professional in opposition whilst building a stronger political party they could win next election. Should the end result of four years of PTP be disappointing the Democrats might win easily.

"It must be prevented that a country can be completely plundered by a few unethical people just because they are currently in power"

Here the problem is the Thai judiciary which is too easily pushed into a pro elite frame of mind. Not surprising because the are elite themselves and who some say 'feed at the trough' themselves too. To keep blaming the constitution is pointless. Better perhaps to revert to the 1997 constitution which was so effective that Thaksin's enemies had to conspire to enable a military coups to get rid of him. Why not impeach him? They were not prepared to wait! Hugh.

In spite of all the ranting of Suthep and the Abhisit's Democrats both Thaksin and Yingluck were the lawful Prime minister's of Thailand, yet they were illegally driven out without the support of their electorate or Thai Law. Scandalous!

Thank you for reflecting.

Just one thought on that:

"The lack of an effective opposition is a major problem that can't be fixed."

mostly true, but it is more.

For example:

The opposition ask the government many times to present or report actual numbers about the rice scheme.

But the government simply do not reply.

The strong separation of public administration and government does not exist or is in many places corrupted.

The opposition can not perform its control function if the government blocks and also the public administration has no information available.

So what options does an opposition in this country have, when there is a suspicion that

state budgets are used for other purposes or even parts going to be robbed?

(From every 100% state Fund, used for projects, maximum of 60% will be used for the purpose, the rest disappears in (un)known dark holes / pockets).

What could be a possible solution to prevent this in the future??

Hi just to answer your answer on the last question, no there is nothing to prevent it, but yes we can control the percentage to be lower. Why I can say that is because if any people that have experience dealing with government tender project they will answer the same way. Due to I have this kind of experience before in my home country with current and international co-operation project before.

Edited December 18, 2013 by DK2223

[Ulic]

Just remember in Thailand laws are considered suggestions so don't let rules and laws get in the way of what you want to do.