Disband the TPVs and similar groups

[simon43]

This post will no doubt ruffle a few feathers

The recent news concerning TPV Gary Halpin, who is accused of dealing in hard drugs, is but one instance where TPVs (or other uniformed 'police' volunteers), have abused their position of trust.

Many such instances never make it to a formal charge of abuse or corruption, but I think we all know of instances where such volunteers have abused their authority to extort others, where it be for money or a free drink in a bar.

Some volunteers (many?) seem unable to even speak basic Thai, which would be a primary requirement when assisting tourists or liaising with the Thai police.

Foreign volunteers who are honest and hard-working also face the challenge of lack of support from their Thai colleagues - whether that be in direct support to assist the foreign volunteer to break up a drunken fight, or back-up, competent, on-going support in terms of training, or even provision of work permit.

I'm speaking from experience here, having worked as a TPV or Royal Thai Police volunteer in Bangkok, Pattaya and Phuket for 6 years.

So my suggestion is that all these groups be disbanded and a single, volunteer group of 'Tourist Assistance Volunteer' be formed, which is not under the authority of any police group. The remit of that group would be only to assist tourists and expats, and not to perform any type of police duty. So no handcuffs, pepper spray or truncheon - a map of Phuket and list of embassy phone numbers is more useful.

A 'TA' volunteer would wear a uniform (see photos), which clearly identifies him/her as a volunteer, but one without police authority. It's very unlikely that a corrupt TA volunteer would be able to extort free drinks (or more), without the insignia/ID of the police. (In fact, I doubt that anyone who wants to wear as uniform for purposes of self-gratification/extortion etc will want to be a TA)

A 'TA' volunteer would perform his/her volunteer duties to the best of his/her abilities. This means that a high standard of performance (which is expected from volunteers in 'western' police forces), would not be an absolute requirement ==> the tourist/expat recognises that the TA volunteer is trying to help as a non-police volunteer, but is not infallable and is not a person that one should place all one's faith in. They are simply a volunteer/good samaritan.

3 years ago or so, I started to work as a TA volunteer, when not on duty as a TPV. In practice, this meant that I would perform my TPV duties (in TPV uniform), at Phuket Airport. But when off-duty, I would be identified as a TA volunteer, and approachable by anyone who needed assistance.

I've attached photos of my old shirts and TA logo - rather dirty by now because I've worked as a TA for several years.

In practice, I've been approached to provide assistance/translation on many occasions, whether it be in my local community, whilst shopping at Tesco etc etc.

Now some of you might think that I'm a little crazy to walk around wearing my TA shirt But it's become second-nature to me, and identifies me as someone who is there to help others, and who can be informally approached, unlike the officlal 'aura' that wearing a TPV uniform carries.

I'd welcome comment from others about the 'TAs'. I would be happy to see all TPV and similar groups disbanded. Leave the police work to the Thai police and let the expat community help other expats and tourists.

Simon

Edited December 18, 2013 by simon43

[Somtamnication]

Simon, you are trying to apply logic in a country where it does not exist.

[nedkellylives]

To many losers and conmem in the VTP they should have a thorough background check for people who join

Also just assist tourists where possible, not patrol banga road and do other jobs that should be done by the regular

Thai police, some even thing they will get a free visa by joining, real losers 95% of them the other 5% soon get sick

of it and leave

[LivinginKata]

The immigration volunteers seem to do a good job, but they are in a controled environment, an immigration office, supported and observed by real immigration officers.

As far as the police volunteers go, they should only be there to support the real police, and should not act without the direct order from the real police.

[IrishIvan]

Good on you Simon you really put your money where your mouth is. Sadly I think not many of the cowboys holding highway patrol badges or volunteer police badges will hang up their pepper spray, truncheon and sheild.

Good luck though. I reckon some company like the Phuket News or one of the nicer family hotels might sponsor you guys

[andreandre]

To many losers and conmem in the VTP they should have a thorough background check for people who join

Also just assist tourists where possible, not patrol banga road and do other jobs that should be done by the regular

Thai police, some even thing they will get a free visa by joining, real losers 95% of them the other 5% soon get sick

of it and leave

From OP;

I'd welcome comment from others about the 'TAs'. I would be happy to see all TPV and similar groups disbanded. Leave the police work to the Thai police and let the expat community help other expats and tourists.

This is a good idea,as some sort of helpers are really needed here..along the lines of TA's...

Why not just stick to the OP's ideas in replying mate?..ie I'd welcome comment from others about the 'TAs'

There has been multitudes of posts already, both recently and past saying exactly as you are now..I think we all understand already!

[LivinginKata]

Let's try and stay with Simon's topic, and not get distracted by those members who just want to bash all TVPs. Further off topic posts will automatically be removed.

[NomadJoe]

I think it's knee-jerk reaction to a few isolated incidents. What most people here know about the volunteers, whether they are Tourist Police Volunteers, Region 8 volunteers (Wal's group), Foreign Police Assistants (such as the 2 guys in brown that work in Karon and Chalong) or Immigration Volunteers is what they read in the news. Through various functions I have gotten to know several of them now, and the ones I know are without exception former police officers or former police volunteers in their own country and have more training and experience than Thai police. Some of them are instructors in various areas of policing so the Thai police have at times even utilized them to train the Thai officers. And all of them without exception are vehement about not accepting money or remuneration of any kind. If the people on this board knew the volunteers that I know as I know them, the comments would be very different.

Thailand, and especially Phuket, have a shortage of police, and it has been reported in the media that they are looking to add many more volunteers to fill the gap. I think this is a good idea, but only if there is some oversight. I agree with Simon on one point, the support from the Thai side can be better. The iguana incident exemplified this.

As for Bangla Rd, I have witnessed myself incidents where drunk tourists get stupid with Thai's and get very close to getting a mob beat down. The foreign police volunteers were able to step in and keep the guy from getting a major beat down, or even killed. So in this regard they serve a purpose and a good one.

The system can be improved, but IMO calling for an all out disbanding is rash.

[Jasun]

I don't know the background of the tourist police, it must have been born out of some kind of need. Has that need gone away? From what I can see, they're already a bit of a toothless tiger, what you're suggesting is to remove their claws as well.

I think putting it all into a single unit makes a lot of sense. Maybe a better system of vetting the candidates? A strict no dickheads policy.

[nedkellylives]

The immigration volunteers seem to do a good job, but they are in a controled environment, an immigration office, supported and observed by real immigration officers.

As far as the police volunteers go, they should only be there to support the real police, and should not act without the direct order from the real police.

Two completly different volunteer groups who do not like each other or did not in the past

The immagration volunteers definately do a good job

[transam]

If a volunteer is allowed to carry ''weapons'' he should have a security check with the law of their country regarding if he has a record. Easy really if the real BiB want to bolster their numbers with unpaid staff.

As for dodgy TPV, well, folk can become dodgy at any time, even a clean bloke. I am sure there are dodgy real BiB out there.

[nedkellylives]

To many losers and conmem in the VTP they should have a thorough background check for people who join

Also just assist tourists where possible, not patrol banga road and do other jobs that should be done by the regular

Thai police, some even thing they will get a free visa by joining, real losers 95% of them the other 5% soon get sick

of it and leave

From OP;

I'd welcome comment from others about the 'TAs'. I would be happy to see all TPV and similar groups disbanded. Leave the police work to the Thai police and let the expat community help other expats and tourists.

This is a good idea,as some sort of helpers are really needed here..along the lines of TA's...

Why not just stick to the OP's ideas in replying mate?..ie I'd welcome comment from others about the 'TAs'

There has been multitudes of posts already, both recently and past saying exactly as you are now..I think we all understand already!

Still getting the same losers joining these groups and its not going to change

Thet love to get VTP stickers to put on the bike or vehicle so they can feel important

If you really want to find out for yourself what its like its not hard to join the VTP

[IrishIvan]

I think it's knee-jerk reaction to a few isolated incidents. What most people here know about the volunteers, whether they are Tourist Police Volunteers, Region 8 volunteers (Wal's group), Foreign Police Assistants (such as the 2 guys in brown that work in Karon and Chalong) or Immigration Volunteers is what they read in the news. Through various functions I have gotten to know several of them now, and the ones I know are without exception former police officers or former police volunteers in their own country and have more training and experience than Thai police. Some of them are instructors in various areas of policing so the Thai police have at times even utilized them to train the Thai officers. And all of them without exception are vehement about not accepting money or remuneration of any kind. If the people on this board knew the volunteers that I know as I know them, the comments would be very different.

Thailand, and especially Phuket, have a shortage of police, and it has been reported in the media that they are looking to add many more volunteers to fill the gap. I think this is a good idea, but only if there is some oversight. I agree with Simon on one point, the support from the Thai side can be better. The iguana incident exemplified this.

As for Bangla Rd, I have witnessed myself incidents where drunk tourists get stupid with Thai's and get very close to getting a mob beat down. The foreign police volunteers were able to step in and keep the guy from getting a major beat down, or even killed. So in this regard they serve a purpose and a good one.

The system can be improved, but IMO calling for an all out disbanding is rash.

This is the exact reason that Simons idea wont work. People love the 'Police' part of the organisation and the badge and uniform. Edited December 18, 2013 by IrishIvan

[nedkellylives]

If a volunteer is allowed to carry ''weapons'' he should have a security check with the law of their country regarding if he has a record. Easy really if the real BiB want to bolster their numbers with unpaid staff.

As for dodgy TPV, well, folk can become dodgy at any time, even a clean bloke. I am sure there are dodgy real BiB out there.

In the past they insisted you carry a pepper spray, extendable batten and handcuffs with optional taser

Some members really want to use this equipment, not needed you are there to assist tourists not harm them

Drunks and yobos should be the responsabilty of the Royal Thai police who would rather sit in a bar drinking free coffee

[transam]

To many losers and conmem in the VTP they should have a thorough background check for people who join

Also just assist tourists where possible, not patrol banga road and do other jobs that should be done by the regular

Thai police, some even thing they will get a free visa by joining, real losers 95% of them the other 5% soon get sick

of it and leave

From OP;

I'd welcome comment from others about the 'TAs'. I would be happy to see all TPV and similar groups disbanded. Leave the police work to the Thai police and let the expat community help other expats and tourists.

This is a good idea,as some sort of helpers are really needed here..along the lines of TA's...

Why not just stick to the OP's ideas in replying mate?..ie I'd welcome comment from others about the 'TAs'

There has been multitudes of posts already, both recently and past saying exactly as you are now..I think we all understand already!

Still getting the same losers joining these groups and its not going to change

Thet love to get VTP stickers to put on the bike or vehicle so they can feel important

If you really want to find out for yourself what its like its not hard to join the VTP

Hmmmmmmmmmm, not sure l like your assumption about me.

I have a sticker on my truck, why do YOU think I put it there ...?

[IrishIvan]

To many losers and conmem in the VTP they should have a thorough background check for people who join

Also just assist tourists where possible, not patrol banga road and do other jobs that should be done by the regular

Thai police, some even thing they will get a free visa by joining, real losers 95% of them the other 5% soon get sick

of it and leave

From OP;

I'd welcome comment from others about the 'TAs'. I would be happy to see all TPV and similar groups disbanded. Leave the police work to the Thai police and let the expat community help other expats and tourists.

This is a good idea,as some sort of helpers are really needed here..along the lines of TA's...

Why not just stick to the OP's ideas in replying mate?..ie I'd welcome comment from others about the 'TAs'

There has been multitudes of posts already, both recently and past saying exactly as you are now..I think we all understand already!

Still getting the same losers joining these groups and its not going to change

Thet love to get VTP stickers to put on the bike or vehicle so they can feel important

If you really want to find out for yourself what its like its not hard to join the VTP

Hmmmmmmmmmm, not sure l like your assumption about me.

I have a sticker on my truck, why do YOU think I put it there ...?

So all the expats around Chalong and Rawaii can know your a volunteer tourist police. It means nothing to the tourists.

[IrishIvan]

If a volunteer is allowed to carry ''weapons'' he should have a security check with the law of their country regarding if he has a record. Easy really if the real BiB want to bolster their numbers with unpaid staff.

As for dodgy TPV, well, folk can become dodgy at any time, even a clean bloke. I am sure there are dodgy real BiB out there.

Why do they need weapons? Only to restrain tourists. No Thais will be put in cuffs

[transam]

I am not in the south and I don't walk the streets. I attend a few functions looking like this..........

Please note, no AK47 but have the obligatory hair cut cos I was born like that..............

[simon43]

whether they are Tourist Police Volunteers, Region 8 volunteers (Wal's group), Foreign Police Assistants (such as the 2 guys in brown that work in Karon and Chalong) or Immigration Volunteers

How confusing is that?! And each group reporting to a different superior and each group with different rules and responsibilities. You really couldn't make it more confusing for tourists. We need a single volunteer team, all reporting to the same superior, all promoting the same 'brand', all working to the same rules and responsibilities.

This is the exact reason that Simons idea wont work. People love the 'Police' part of the organisation and the badge and uniform.

Let me rephrase your statement:

'This is the exact reason that Simons idea WILL work, because it will NOT appeal to the dickheads who love the 'Police' part of the organisation and the badge and uniform'.

I fully agree that there are honest and well-meaning volunteers in these organisations. But these organisations are disorganised and their reputation is tainted by those who join for their own selfish aims.

Edited December 18, 2013 by simon43

[nedkellylives]

To many losers and conmem in the VTP they should have a thorough background check for people who join

Also just assist tourists where possible, not patrol banga road and do other jobs that should be done by the regular

Thai police, some even thing they will get a free visa by joining, real losers 95% of them the other 5% soon get sick

of it and leave

From OP;

I'd welcome comment from others about the 'TAs'. I would be happy to see all TPV and similar groups disbanded. Leave the police work to the Thai police and let the expat community help other expats and tourists.

This is a good idea,as some sort of helpers are really needed here..along the lines of TA's...

Why not just stick to the OP's ideas in replying mate?..ie I'd welcome comment from others about the 'TAs'

There has been multitudes of posts already, both recently and past saying exactly as you are now..I think we all understand already!

Still getting the same losers joining these groups and its not going to change

Thet love to get VTP stickers to put on the bike or vehicle so they can feel important

If you really want to find out for yourself what its like its not hard to join the VTP

Hmmmmmmmmmm, not sure l like your assumption about me.

I have a sticker on my truck, why do YOU think I put it there ...?

Why dont you tell everyone why you put a sticker on your truck, you know i do not and have my own opinion why you did

as i have already stated

[transam]

The reason is, if someone like you, a farang, has a problem and sees a fellow farang in the ''know'' he can perhaps feel comfortable to approach me for help, plain and simple.

I parked outside the TP base a few weeks back and got a parking ticket.................

[andreandre]

I think it's knee-jerk reaction to a few isolated incidents. What most people here know about the volunteers, whether they are Tourist Police Volunteers, Region 8 volunteers (Wal's group), Foreign Police Assistants (such as the 2 guys in brown that work in Karon and Chalong) or Immigration Volunteers is what they read in the news. Through various functions I have gotten to know several of them now, and the ones I know are without exception former police officers or former police volunteers in their own country and have more training and experience than Thai police. Some of them are instructors in various areas of policing so the Thai police have at times even utilized them to train the Thai officers. And all of them without exception are vehement about not accepting money or remuneration of any kind. If the people on this board knew the volunteers that I know as I know them, the comments would be very different.

Thailand, and especially Phuket, have a shortage of police, and it has been reported in the media that they are looking to add many more volunteers to fill the gap. I think this is a good idea, but only if there is some oversight. I agree with Simon on one point, the support from the Thai side can be better. The iguana incident exemplified this.

As for Bangla Rd, I have witnessed myself incidents where drunk tourists get stupid with Thai's and get very close to getting a mob beat down. The foreign police volunteers were able to step in and keep the guy from getting a major beat down, or even killed. So in this regard they serve a purpose and a good one.

The system can be improved, but IMO calling for an all out disbanding is rash.

This is the exact reason that Simons idea wont work. People love the 'Police' part of the organisation and the badge and uniform.

I think that in your ongoing quest to beat up on TVP at every opportunity ,you are completely missing the crux of the OP which IMO is a good idea and would provide a much needed help to all who at some time or other may need such..;There will not be 'badge and uniform as such is the case now..get it??

"A 'TA' volunteer would wear a uniform (see photos), which clearly identifies him/her as a volunteer, but one without police authority."

"So my suggestion is that all these groups be disbanded and a single, volunteer group of 'Tourist Assistance Volunteer' be formed, which is not under the authority of any police group. The remit of that group would be only to assist tourists and expats, and not to perform any type of police duty. So no handcuffs, pepper spray or truncheon - a map of Phuket and list of embassy phone numbers is more useful."

Edited December 18, 2013 by andreandre

[IrishIvan]

I think it's knee-jerk reaction to a few isolated incidents. What most people here know about the volunteers, whether they are Tourist Police Volunteers, Region 8 volunteers (Wal's group), Foreign Police Assistants (such as the 2 guys in brown that work in Karon and Chalong) or Immigration Volunteers is what they read in the news. Through various functions I have gotten to know several of them now, and the ones I know are without exception former police officers or former police volunteers in their own country and have more training and experience than Thai police. Some of them are instructors in various areas of policing so the Thai police have at times even utilized them to train the Thai officers. And all of them without exception are vehement about not accepting money or remuneration of any kind. If the people on this board knew the volunteers that I know as I know them, the comments would be very different.

Thailand, and especially Phuket, have a shortage of police, and it has been reported in the media that they are looking to add many more volunteers to fill the gap. I think this is a good idea, but only if there is some oversight. I agree with Simon on one point, the support from the Thai side can be better. The iguana incident exemplified this.

As for Bangla Rd, I have witnessed myself incidents where drunk tourists get stupid with Thai's and get very close to getting a mob beat down. The foreign police volunteers were able to step in and keep the guy from getting a major beat down, or even killed. So in this regard they serve a purpose and a good one.

The system can be improved, but IMO calling for an all out disbanding is rash.

This is the exact reason that Simons idea wont work. People love the 'Police' part of the organisation and the badge and uniform.

I think that in your ongoing quest to beat up on TVP at every opportunity ,you are completely missing the crux of the OP which IMO is a good idea and would provide a much needed help to all who at some time or other may need such..;There will not be 'badge and uniform as such is the case now..get it??

"A 'TA' volunteer would wear a uniform (see photos), which clearly identifies him/her as a volunteer, but one without police authority."

"So my suggestion is that all these groups be disbanded and a single, volunteer group of 'Tourist Assistance Volunteer' be formed, which is not under the authority of any police group. The remit of that group would be only to assist tourists and expats, and not to perform any type of police duty. So no handcuffs, pepper spray or truncheon - a map of Phuket and list of embassy phone numbers is more useful."

if you read the other thread about the ice dealing chalong volunteer I actually posted a similar idea which Simon has taken on board.

[andreandre]

I think it's knee-jerk reaction to a few isolated incidents. What most people here know about the volunteers, whether they are Tourist Police Volunteers, Region 8 volunteers (Wal's group), Foreign Police Assistants (such as the 2 guys in brown that work in Karon and Chalong) or Immigration Volunteers is what they read in the news. Through various functions I have gotten to know several of them now, and the ones I know are without exception former police officers or former police volunteers in their own country and have more training and experience than Thai police. Some of them are instructors in various areas of policing so the Thai police have at times even utilized them to train the Thai officers. And all of them without exception are vehement about not accepting money or remuneration of any kind. If the people on this board knew the volunteers that I know as I know them, the comments would be very different.

Thailand, and especially Phuket, have a shortage of police, and it has been reported in the media that they are looking to add many more volunteers to fill the gap. I think this is a good idea, but only if there is some oversight. I agree with Simon on one point, the support from the Thai side can be better. The iguana incident exemplified this.

As for Bangla Rd, I have witnessed myself incidents where drunk tourists get stupid with Thai's and get very close to getting a mob beat down. The foreign police volunteers were able to step in and keep the guy from getting a major beat down, or even killed. So in this regard they serve a purpose and a good one.

The system can be improved, but IMO calling for an all out disbanding is rash.

This is the exact reason that Simons idea wont work. People love the 'Police' part of the organisation and the badge and uniform.

I think that in your ongoing quest to beat up on TVP at every opportunity ,you are completely missing the crux of the OP which IMO is a good idea and would provide a much needed help to all who at some time or other may need such..;There will not be 'badge and uniform as such is the case now..get it??

"A 'TA' volunteer would wear a uniform (see photos), which clearly identifies him/her as a volunteer, but one without police authority."

"So my suggestion is that all these groups be disbanded and a single, volunteer group of 'Tourist Assistance Volunteer' be formed, which is not under the authority of any police group. The remit of that group would be only to assist tourists and expats, and not to perform any type of police duty. So no handcuffs, pepper spray or truncheon - a map of Phuket and list of embassy phone numbers is more useful."

if you read the other thread about the ice dealing chalong volunteer I actually posted a similar idea which Simon has taken on board.

Thats all well and good...but you just said this...This is the exact reason that Simons idea wont work. People love the 'Police' part of the organisation and the badge and uniform.

This is what i am addressing here.. There is no no 'police' part if a TA..Yes?

I'm sure that just as many people would be happy to apply to be a TA simply because there is no 'Police" TVP type agenda involved..

Edited December 18, 2013 by andreandre

[nedkellylives]

The reason is, if someone like you, a farang, has a problem and sees a fellow farang in the ''know'' he can perhaps feel comfortable to approach me for help, plain and simple.

I parked outside the TP base a few weeks back and got a parking ticket.................

Are you required to carry handcuffs, truncheon and pepper spray to help tourists like the VTP were in Phuket

Some of them would like to have a handgun as well

[IrishIvan]

I was pointing out NomadJoe's post. He is very opposed to losing his TVP status

Hell I would even think about donating some of my time to a tourist assistance service. I am a wealth of knowledge about Phuket and very good with people

[simon43]

I actually posted a similar idea which Simon has taken on board.

Not quite true

I established the TA Phuket group and website (taphuket.com) in early October 2011, although I've let the domain lapse. You can still see the meta details at https://www.google.com/#q=taphuket.com

Simon

Edited December 18, 2013 by simon43

[LivinginKata]

Off topic posts removed. Lets stay on the TA topic.

[bubblegum]

I'm with you Simon. The idea of having people with local knowledge helping out those that need it is a good plan and in my opinion a welcome one for Phuket. Before this I never heard of TA only tourist police.

I'd say no uniform but some kind of renegotiable friendly outfit to identify the volunteer would show a different light on Phuket.

As an expat I would very much like to help (within my living district) tourists and if an organisation like this works and lives up to its standards it would be a great asset to the whole of Phuket.

But before joining said organisation thing would have to be cleared with immigration. Like many of you i'm on a "retirement" visa and thus not allowed to do any work.

Edited December 18, 2013 by bubblegum

[stevenl]

Many such instances never make it to a formal charge of abuse or corruption, but I think we all know of instances where such volunteers have abused their authority to extort others, where it be for money or a free drink in a bar.

I very much doubt this is true, and people only know about these abuses 'through the grapevine', where many rumours float around and only a small percentage is true.

Don't let this recent 'happening' form your opinion, but form it on what is really happening here, and not on rumours. And if something needs to be done, so be it.