Fitness & good diet for the over 50's - good advice, not scams

[h90]

Agree with a lot of what's been said.

When I was in my late 50s, I was putting on weight and even though I was going to a personal trainer three times a week , I continued to pile flab on. I was getting worried about putting pressure on my knees and hips because of my excess weight. Diet turned out to be the answer for me. I cut out most bread, pasta and rice, and all cakes, donuts, pastries etc, noodles, and icecream. No soft drinks, no milk in coffee, no smoothies, no fruit juice (fruit is better eaten whole, that way you get the fibre as well as the sugar in the juice, and you don't consume as much; too much fruit juice and you are increasing your chances of diabetes). I went from 102 kg down to 79 in a couple of months, before deciding that I had gone far enough and it was time to stop.

Instead of counting calories, I count the variety of unprocessed (or minimally unprocessed) fruit and veg: I try to eat at least 15 different fruit and vegetable each day. So raw fruit and steamed vegetables as far as possible. It's not as bad as it sounds: 3 or 4 different fruit for breakfast, a salad sandwich for lunch (as many different salad vegies as I can find - generally 7 or 8), and 3-5 steamed vegetables for dinner. I'm not vegetarian so I do add in small amounts of cheese or meat (typically chicken or fish). Eating almonds, walnuts, etc in moderation are also a way of getting my "at least 15 unprocessed foods" quota each day. My diet is based on work by an Australian doctor, Dr John Tickel, who has written books such as "The Great Australian Diet." He uses research from some of the healthiest and longest living people, those who follow a traditional diet in Okinawa. (Younger people in Okinawa who eat fast food and drink cola typically aren't any more healthy than their western peers).

I'm 63 and still go to the gym (change my program every 6 weeks or so) and I cycle (even in Chiang Mai). If I couldn't swim or cycle, I would walk everywhere (the reason I put on weight in the first place was because I moved from the city centre where I walked and used public transport, to the suburbs, and bought a car). That also means using the stairs in buildings and not the elevator.

I also think Man Tak Chia (who owns a Tao style resort outside Chiang Mai) makes a lot of sense in his books, especially for western men in our age group - beginning to become aware of (and/or hear from peers on) problems such as prostate cancer etc. Traditional chinese medicine does have some great insights, and is a very practical approach, in my opinion.

I agree with everything, just want to add:

Long time it was accepted that Japanese live very long (even they drink and smoke a lot) and a lot was thought about what they eat.

Since a few years that is all shaken, as they found out that there is a very wide spread very huge pension fraud.....the 105 year old grand mum, died already with 75 and the last 30 years she lived only in the government documents so their relatives receive the monthly payments.

Exactly the same in Greece. So if these diets really let you get very old is maybe not true. Or maybe it is still true.....

[orpheus454]

I'm using the high Singha diet.

It doesn't seem to be working, but I want to give it every chance of success, so will stick with it a while yet...

[robertson468]

Most important,

No processed food or drink. In order of importance ....

Avoid anything with white flour, no fizzy drinks (alcoholic or plain), no fried food, nothing with sugar, no sweets, or snack food.

Lots of exercise, hiking up mountains (not flat), cycling, swimming.

At 50+ you shouldn't be lifting weights or jogging.

Once you lose weight, then you should be able to start sneaking in the bad food and drink.

I've lost 14Kg in the last year, my problem now is keeping weight on.

"At 50+ you shouldn't be lifting weights or jogging." This is probably the worst advice I have read yet on this site. I am 69 and run about 4kms nearly every day and have a 45 minutes free weights routine and feel on top of the World, not only that, most of my Friends keep asking what is keeping me so young looking? Running or jogging is one of the best ways to reduce the body fat. BUT, if you have been "lard arsing it" behind a computer most of your life, start off by walking at a positive rate for say 2 kms and as you feel more able, progress it to a longer distance then a mix of walk and run - the other good thing it costs you..................ZERO baht, but does take quite a lot of self discipline to keep up the regime. Once you start feeling good, you might like to invest in a couple of 6 kg dumb bells, not an expensive investment. There are a whole variety of exercises you can do with these and you only need to look at various websites to see what you can do at home. Personally, I now never do anything with weights without some form of back support, like a bench press or chair. Diet is clearly a very important factor and avoid like the plague things like coke or even zero coke. There is about six spoon fulls of sugar in each can - would you put that in your tea or coffee? Another important factor is do what is achievable and slowly build on it. If you try to do something crazy like 5 kms run on the first day, you will end up absolutely knackered, if not dead and boy you will be so disappointed! Good luck

[maderaroja]

Cut out the oil, sugar, salt and white rice. You will be able to get to where you want. Oh, that means no Tahi food.

[h90]

I'm using the high Singha diet.

It doesn't seem to be working, but I want to give it every chance of success, so will stick with it a while yet...

If it does not work, you should check the Chang diet.

[Zumteufel]

...

At 50+ you shouldn't be lifting weights

...

If you want to keep your testosterone levels up and increasing bone density, you should definitely be lifting weights no matter your age.

[montereyjp]

I am 54 and have been into staying fit since I was 22... Starting by running footraces and then moved on to triathlons which got me really interested in nutrition. I do not run much anymore but I still ride my bicycle regularly between 35 to 45Km at around a 26Km per hour pace and I supplement that with swimming 2000 meters 3 times a week... Staying fit is easy, just keep moving and eat healthy as many have stated already.. The less process foods the better and the less calories per day the better. I recently read a study that showed mice lived twice as long as normal on a calorie restricted diet and then today I saw on the Ophra website very good piece by Dr. Oz on how to live longer... He provides great advice on how to maintain a calorie restricted diet plus advice on staying fit with maintaining muscle mass being very vital part of it as we grow older... You can find it here http://www.oprah.com/health/Dr-Oz-on-Living-Longer-with-a-Calorie-Restriction-Diet/3 ... As far as exercise as many of you know if you make it a regular part of your daily routine it will eventual become an addiction, a good addiction... In order to become addicted to exercise you have to be self motivated, it is great to have a partner but you cant always count on them.. and one motto I live by is something is always better then nothing.. which means if you normally walk an hour everyday but only have 30 or 20 or 10 minutes then go walk anyway.. And one more thing I would like to mention is core fitness, that is maintaining the muscles you can not see, the ones close to your spine as these are the most important muscles for maintaining poster...As we grow older we end up spending to much time not moving and when we do move we only use our leg and arm muscles so are external muscles become stronger then the internal core muscles. When this happens your skeleton gets pulled and twisted in a way that causes not only lower back pain but also unnatural pressure points to develop on your internal organs which is another source of chronic pain... Core exercises are easy, most require little or no movement and if done regularly will keep you upright with good posture for your lifetime..

Keep moving and stay fit everyone!

[Muhendis]

Well Simon43. When I saw your weight/height figures a little alarm bell rang. You are a healthy weight for your height. You don't need to do anything about your weight. You are concerned for your shape which is a different matter. Addressing this, there are several approaches all of which will help. You could try Yoga. I've never done it myself but it will, if done properly, tone you up and get you into shape. You should also do a bit of weight lifting as in concrete blocks for example. Make a pile of (say) 50 blocks and then move the entire pile to another location 20 Metres away as quickly as you can. Do this a couple of times every day. You need to exert yourself and feel a little out of breath each time. If you have a ladder for example, then you can use this to do pull ups. Press ups and trunk curls can be done on the floor (where else) at home. The trick is to exercise each muscle in every part of your body strenuously and regularly.

Good luck in Myanmar

[leggo]

I am 68, weight 70 kg,exercise 6 days s week and eat healthily - breakfast -fruits and toast, no butter, oj, coffee. lunch rice, veggies, chicken. Dinner salad. Alcohol once a week.I swim a kilometre a day and do 45 mins on a Nordic trainer every evening. Weekend spoil yourself on one of the days -I,m told I have a physique of a man in his forties - actually I don't care, just try and feel healthy - you're body will tell you how!

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[JSixpack]

Mr Sixpack

Though I do believe in low carb, i am certainly not against oats / real musli.

I have read Garry Taubes book, a bible for many low carb guys and found it less then convincing. He just linked everything to carbs and let a lot of other explanations out of it while he started his book that he would not do that as other people did (real hypocritical to say the least) I would have loved it more if his book included a lot more scientific tests and studies. There was a short part on insulin and how it works with carbs. That was something I already knew and why i like low carb, because I do believe its the way to go (not zero carb).

Low carb is by no means against all carbs, and which carbs depends in part on whether you want to lose weight or just maintain your already healthy weight w/o getting fat. Typically a fat ol' fart will want to lose as quickly as possible w/ the least pain possible. In that phase, oats and muesli and fruit just help slow down the weight loss. They serve no useful purpose, but to the contrary. Compare the calories and glycemic indexes with spinach and you'll see exactly why.

Then when you're where you want to be, you add back in the oats/muesli/rice/BEER/potatoes (careful w/ them 'taters!) and see how much you can eat w/o starting to gain back the fat. And that depends on metabolism and how badly you've already screwed up your insulin resistance. Some may not be enough to make any difference. And the caloric level isn't so high (taken alone) that exercise wouldn't necessarily burn them off. In your case, anaerobic exercise is perfect for burning off carb calories before they're turned into fat. If you don't have too much!

In my posts I'm mostly just addressing members who are too fat and need help losing.

If you read Gary Taubes' books carefully (Good Calories Bad Calories goes into exhaustive detail, which is why he wrote the summary book Why We Get Fat), you'll see that he nowhere suggests zero carbs. Far as I know, no low carb diet guru advocates such a thing, and only the Inuit have been known to have achieved it. Vegetables are ALWAYS promoted as the source of carbs, recommended, and are supposed to be eaten daily. Exercise is also suggested by all low carb gurus.

I've read a lot of reviews of Gary Taubes' books but haven't seen him ever accused of hypocrisy. He mostly brings out research that has been done but ignored or from which wrong conclusions have been drawn, pointing out how it may be flawed and other conclusions much more likely, esp given the biochemistry.

So looks like you didn't read carefully and merely didn't understand what he said ("zero carbs!"). If you want to bring up some other specific point of which you're not convinced, you can do so. The sort of author you'll approve is of course one who advocates heavy lifting, 'cause you like heavy lifting. Makes sense.

Do you know of any books that go more into the science of it with a collection of real experiments in labs and such. I like to read about stuff like that. One of the writers that i like (probably too technical for most) is Lyle Mc Donald. He is not necessarily low carb as such but he always makes a strong case with real lab tests supporting his claims (unlike most). He also believes in exercise. (and so should you as it helps against insulin resistance just like how low carb helps against that)

Good Calories Bad Calories is much more detailed. You might take a look at that. There've been some good recent studies but I'm just too lazy to look them up at the moment. Nobody ever changes an opinion here on this forum.

Suffice it to say, if some old fat guy such as we get here all the time wants to lose weight and reap all the benefits thereof (better numbers across the board), millions of dieters can attest that low carb will do it. And do it without all that silly anal retentive calorie counting of every meal, feeling hungry and fretting whether the skin is still on your chicken, busting your butt in the gym, etc--which few can keep up. Truth is, soon as you restrict calories, your metabolism tends to slow so that it can keep the fat during the FAMINE.

As I noted, all the low carb gurus believe in exercise. I do, and I exercise and stay fit. My numbers are great. It's just that you can't expect that exercise is going to be very helpful for losing weight in particular. Maybe just the opposite: makes you hungrier and you eat more to make up the calorie deficit. How do you "work up an appetite?" Exercise.

Countless of research has shown that weightlifting combined with cardio helps more then just cardio alone.

Helps what, exactly? Your orthopedist's wallet?

Weightlifting does not automatically mean bodybuilding aspirations as many people foolishly believe. There are many gradations in it bodybuilding is just for a select few. Who care more about muscles then the average person. But the bodybuilding principles can help many even if done moderate.

I say that an fat old out-of-shape beer belly (our typical Pattaya resident, ha, ha) shouldn't be straining himself lifting heavy weights or doing HIT. That's a recipe for a heart attack or injury--for which, robblok, you'd of course take no responsibility.

Walking or biking's good, maybe light dumbbells, etc. until the excess weight's off--then start ramping things up if possible w/ advice from a doc. And bodyweight is really heavy enough for any normal person. You can check out the physiques of some bodyweight-only fitness buffs. To choose one at random from a google search, I think most of our forum members would be happy enough w/ a body similar to this--without wasting time and money in a gym or lifting barbells:

Looks in pretty shape to me. I went to gyms for decades, so you can't tell me much I don't know about gyms, weights, and machines. Been there, done it, know it. Paid all the dues.

[robblok]

Low carb is by no means against all carbs, and which carbs depends in part on whether you want to lose weight or just maintain your already healthy weight w/o getting fat. Typically a fat ol' fart will want to lose as quickly as possible w/ the least pain possible. In that phase, oats and muesli and fruit just help slow down the weight loss. They serve no useful purpose, but to the contrary. Compare the calories and glycemic indexes with spinach and you'll see exactly why.

Then when you're where you want to be, you add back in the oats/muesli/rice/BEER/potatoes (careful w/ them 'taters!) and see how much you can eat w/o starting to gain back the fat. And that depends on metabolism and how badly you've already screwed up your insulin resistance. Some may not be enough to make any difference. And the caloric level isn't so high (taken alone) that exercise wouldn't necessarily burn them off. In your case, anaerobic exercise is perfect for burning off carb calories before they're turned into fat. If you don't have too much!

In my posts I'm mostly just addressing members who are too fat and need help losing.

If you read Gary Taubes' books carefully (Good Calories Bad Calories goes into exhaustive detail, which is why he wrote the summary book Why We Get Fat), you'll see that he nowhere suggests zero carbs. Far as I know, no low carb diet guru advocates such a thing, and only the Inuit have been known to have achieved it. Vegetables are ALWAYS promoted as the source of carbs, recommended, and are supposed to be eaten daily. Exercise is also suggested by all low carb gurus.

I've read a lot of reviews of Gary Taubes' books but haven't seen him ever accused of hypocrisy. He mostly brings out research that has been done but ignored or from which wrong conclusions have been drawn, pointing out how it may be flawed and other conclusions much more likely, esp given the biochemistry.

So looks like you didn't read carefully and merely didn't understand what he said ("zero carbs!"). If you want to bring up some other specific point of which you're not convinced, you can do so. The sort of author you'll approve is of course one who advocates heavy lifting, 'cause you like heavy lifting. Makes sense.

Do you know of any books that go more into the science of it with a collection of real experiments in labs and such. I like to read about stuff like that. One of the writers that i like (probably too technical for most) is Lyle Mc Donald. He is not necessarily low carb as such but he always makes a strong case with real lab tests supporting his claims (unlike most). He also believes in exercise. (and so should you as it helps against insulin resistance just like how low carb helps against that)

Good Calories Bad Calories is much more detailed. You might take a look at that. There've been some good recent studies but I'm just too lazy to look them up at the moment. Nobody ever changes an opinion here on this forum.

Suffice it to say, if some old fat guy such as we get here all the time wants to lose weight and reap all the benefits thereof (better numbers across the board), millions of dieters can attest that low carb will do it. And do it without all that silly anal retentive calorie counting of every meal, feeling hungry and fretting whether the skin is still on your chicken, busting your butt in the gym, etc--which few can keep up. Truth is, soon as you restrict calories, your metabolism tends to slow so that it can keep the fat during the FAMINE.

As I noted, all the low carb gurus believe in exercise. I do, and I exercise and stay fit. My numbers are great. It's just that you can't expect that exercise is going to be very helpful for losing weight in particular. Maybe just the opposite: makes you hungrier and you eat more to make up the calorie deficit. How do you "work up an appetite?" Exercise.

Countless of research has shown that weightlifting combined with cardio helps more then just cardio alone.

Helps what, exactly? Your orthopedist's wallet?

Weightlifting does not automatically mean bodybuilding aspirations as many people foolishly believe. There are many gradations in it bodybuilding is just for a select few. Who care more about muscles then the average person. But the bodybuilding principles can help many even if done moderate.

I say that an fat old out-of-shape beer belly (our typical Pattaya resident, ha, ha) shouldn't be straining himself lifting heavy weights or doing HIT. That's a recipe for a heart attack or injury--for which, robblok, you'd of course take no responsibility.

Walking or biking's good, maybe light dumbbells, etc. until the excess weight's off--then start ramping things up if possible w/ advice from a doc. And bodyweight is really heavy enough for any normal person. You can check out the physiques of some bodyweight-only fitness buffs. To choose one at random from a google search, I think most of our forum members would be happy enough w/ a body similar to this--without wasting time and money in a gym or lifting barbells:

Looks in pretty shape to me. I went to gyms for decades, so you can't tell me much I don't know about gyms, weights, and machines. Been there, done it, know it. Paid all the dues.

Actually i read good calories bad calories on my holiday last month. So you actually did not read it yourself ? Thing is in one of his first chapters he states the he unlike other writers will show both sides (and he never does) That is why i call him a hypocrite.

What he did was get loads of research and put it in a context that fits into his view without looking for other explanations. I am not saying I am against low carbs as i believe it helps. I am saying that the book does not really go into the biological part just loads of research anecdotes on weight and such. Not biological studies ect that i like to read that was why i asked you.

As for that guy.. i doubt he got that way from only body weight exercises and i bet that he has some good genetics. I am not sure I am much bigger then him muscular wise. I bet you would look at him differently when you saw him face to face, he is by no means just thin he is quite muscular. I seriously doubt that comes from just body weight exercises. Maybe a small percentage of people gets this muscular from just body exercises.. others really need to lift weights to get that size.

I think bodybuilding shows make a strange perception of how most bodybuilders want to be. I certainly don't want or could ever reach those sizes. Many don't want that at all. Thing is lifting weights is the best way to get muscles as you can tune the weights better.

[JSixpack]

Actually i read good calories bad calories on my holiday last month. So you actually did not read it yourself ? Thing is in one of his first chapters he states the he unlike other writers will show both sides (and he never does) That is why i call him a hypocrite.

Here's EXACTLY what he says:

In this book my aim is to look critically at a straightforward question to which most of us believe we know the answer: What constitutes a healthy diet? What should we eat if we want to live a long and a healthy life? To address this question, we’ll examine the evidence supporting both the prevailing wisdom and this alternative hypothesis, and we’ll confront the strong possibility that much of what we’ve come to believe is wrong. . . . By critically examining the research that led to the prevailing wisdom of nutrition and health, this book may appear to be one-sided, but only in that it presents a side that is not often voiced publicly. Since the 1970s, the belief that saturated fat causes heart disease and perhaps other chronic diseases has been justified by a series of expert reports—from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, the Surgeon General’s Office, the National Academy of Sciences, and the Department of Health in the U.K., among others. These reports present the evidence in support of the fat-cholesterol hypothesis and mostly omit the evidence in contradiction. This makes for a very compelling case, but it is not how science is best served. It is a technique used to its greatest advantage by trial lawyers, who assume correctly that the most persuasive case to a jury is one that presents only one side of a story. The legal system, however, assures that judge and jury hear both sides by requiring the presence of competing attorneys.

--Gary Taubes, Good Calories Bad Calories

So he explains why you would mistakenly believe he didn't show both sides. He did what he said he would, showed their side, and he offered a compelling argument, w/ evidence, against the conclusions (clearly presented and cited) drawn by the other side.

Your problem is merely that you don't like his side. Nor have you, robblok, found any reason or evidence to think that his refutation is incorrect or invalid in any way whatsoever. All you've really got is, "Me no believe!" Reminds me of a certain other close-minded member of our forum.

Nothing hypocritical there at all. Sigh!

As for that guy.. i doubt he got that way from only body weight exercises and i bet that he has some good genetics. I am not sure I am much bigger then him muscular wise. I bet you would look at him differently when you saw him face to face, he is by no means just thin he is quite muscular. I seriously doubt that comes from just body weight exercises. Maybe a small percentage of people gets this muscular from just body exercises.. others really need to lift weights to get that size.

Well, you'd SO predictably resist the notion of bodyweight being all that's needed to get into such great shape, and, with no evidence whatsoever, inevitably try to claim that such examples are frauds. Now, I just took that guy at random from a google search. There are many more. So they're ALL frauds, eh, robblok? Every last one of them! Lying internet!!!

A true thaivisa poster, you are. Which makes it not worth typing here for you to point out your various misunderstandings and biases. Wonder how long it'll be before you forget and repeat that "zero carb" nonsense again.

That guy is an extremely good example (one of many) but one example is enough to make my point to the OP that he can get very fit w/o having access to a gym. That should come as good news. I didn't imply that the OP would end up looking THAT good nor that such would be necessary or desirable.

I also enjoy offending the religion of gym rats.

Edited December 19, 2013 by JSixpack

[robblok]

@Jsixpack..

Did you read his book or not ?

It was one sided real one sided where only his explanation was valid while he started of with saying he would examine both sides.. just like you said. It was a boring book with not much real science more statistics and anecdotal evidence. Not the kind of book I like, i like real lab tests controlled studies ect ect. Real science. I am still pro lo carb but his book did not much to convince me. The only part that was interesting was the part about insulin.

Point 2

Yes bodyweight exercises might work for a small percentage of people like him. Believe it or not there are even people who are in shape by doing nothing. They are the genetically gifted. They can't be used to make a statement you have to exclude those kind of people. I am not taking a pro bodybuilder as an example what can be achieved as he has genetics on his side too.

Now let us look at this logically.. hope you can for once. Some people can get a normal bike up to 50 km an hour but most can do the same with a racing bike. Now would you argue that using a normal bike is then the best thing to achieve that speed. That is the argument we are having here between body-weight exercises and weighted exercises. One might work and certainly has its good exercises (i do pull ups and dips sometimes weighted) vs an infinite toolbox where you can fine-tune the resistance.

It will be hard to offend my religion as I have none as an atheist.

[h90]

@Jsixpack..

Did you read his book or not ?

It was one sided real one sided where only his explanation was valid while he started of with saying he would examine both sides.. just like you said. It was a boring book with not much real science more statistics and anecdotal evidence. Not the kind of book I like, i like real lab tests controlled studies ect ect. Real science. I am still pro lo carb but his book did not much to convince me. The only part that was interesting was the part about insulin.

Point 2

Yes bodyweight exercises might work for a small percentage of people like him. Believe it or not there are even people who are in shape by doing nothing. They are the genetically gifted. They can't be used to make a statement you have to exclude those kind of people. I am not taking a pro bodybuilder as an example what can be achieved as he has genetics on his side too.

Now let us look at this logically.. hope you can for once. Some people can get a normal bike up to 50 km an hour but most can do the same with a racing bike. Now would you argue that using a normal bike is then the best thing to achieve that speed. That is the argument we are having here between body-weight exercises and weighted exercises. One might work and certainly has its good exercises (i do pull ups and dips sometimes weighted) vs an infinite toolbox where you can fine-tune the resistance.

It will be hard to offend my religion as I have none as an atheist.

Well I studied food technology and put my nose a bit in nutrition science.

When you see the university level of nutrition science (not the physicians, the real only nutrition science people) you would be shocked.

Very limited medical background.

Limited biochemical background and complete dogmatic. They have all their ideology.....it is almost like religion, not science based.

I have seen profs getting choleric-ballistic at normal questions because their teaching wasn't accepted without question.....

Real strange people.....

[Konini]

Some great advise here for you.

About 10 years ago I lost 35kg in a year. I've had back surgery, so can't do any exercise which would strain or jolt my back. I can't run, but I can walk at 6km/hour. I walked 6km before going to work and after eating. Also had a very lame aerobic video for old people. My GP advised some LIGHT weights as this would strengthen my bones - I'm talking a 2 litre bottle of water in each hand, following another video for 20 mins each day.

The only other thing I did was eat less. I had a healthy diet, plenty (too much) fruit and veg, and I ate the same as I always have done, just smaller portions. I didn't ban anything, but instead of having an occasional slab of chocolate, I had a small bar, instead of a now and again jumbo bag of crisps, I had a small bag. Banning things from your diet only makes you crave them.

Losing 35kg is a fair effort, but I did it without any fancy stuff or expense (and I started this 2 months after stopping smoking 50 ciggies a day). It was actually a money saver, as I wasn't buying lots of sweets and crisps, but lost it again on buying a whole new wardrobe. That expense I certainly didn't mind. The weight has gradually crept back on, and I'm going to start doing more movement and smaller portions again after Christmas. Really, if I can do it, anyone can. I've got a Wii now, and playing tennis, bowling, boxing etc certainly works up a sweat but I know I need to get back into a routine of early morning exercise.

Keep in mind that swimming and cycling are not weight bearing exercise, so you don't burn as much energy, but you don't have a lot, if any, weight to lose. Perhaps turning some of the fat into muscle should be your aim. And walking should not be strolling; in this environment you'd be better off to get up early and walk before the day gets too warm.

Good luck, and remember beer is not good when you're trying to get into shape.

[robblok]

@Jsixpack..

Did you read his book or not ?

It was one sided real one sided where only his explanation was valid while he started of with saying he would examine both sides.. just like you said. It was a boring book with not much real science more statistics and anecdotal evidence. Not the kind of book I like, i like real lab tests controlled studies ect ect. Real science. I am still pro lo carb but his book did not much to convince me. The only part that was interesting was the part about insulin.

Point 2

Yes bodyweight exercises might work for a small percentage of people like him. Believe it or not there are even people who are in shape by doing nothing. They are the genetically gifted. They can't be used to make a statement you have to exclude those kind of people. I am not taking a pro bodybuilder as an example what can be achieved as he has genetics on his side too.

Now let us look at this logically.. hope you can for once. Some people can get a normal bike up to 50 km an hour but most can do the same with a racing bike. Now would you argue that using a normal bike is then the best thing to achieve that speed. That is the argument we are having here between body-weight exercises and weighted exercises. One might work and certainly has its good exercises (i do pull ups and dips sometimes weighted) vs an infinite toolbox where you can fine-tune the resistance.

It will be hard to offend my religion as I have none as an atheist.

Well I studied food technology and put my nose a bit in nutrition science.

When you see the university level of nutrition science (not the physicians, the real only nutrition science people) you would be shocked.

Very limited medical background.

Limited biochemical background and complete dogmatic. They have all their ideology.....it is almost like religion, not science based.

I have seen profs getting choleric-ballistic at normal questions because their teaching wasn't accepted without question.....

Real strange people.....

I just like reading about the science behind stuff, i read a book about leptin. Now i read good calories bad calories, i like reading a lot and then forming my own opinion about stuff. I believe in low carb and as J sixpack said nobody is for zero carbs. Now how low is low carb is debatable.

But every book i read they all act like its the holy grail, i just try to get all those bits of information together and see what it gives me. I really like the insulin information i read, i liked what i read about leptin.

I am one of those guys who has to do a lot to loose weight. Now I seem to be stable at a good weight and real lean and muscular and such. But it does come at a price so all those things that i read I try to apply and pass on if i feel I understood enough of it.

Most people would not want to live like me or be like me that is why I don't tell people to go to extremes its simply not feasible for most.

At home its easy for me to control what I eat and exercise, i even like it.

Got a Huron juicer to juice vegetables and a grill to do my meats, a gym to work out in and because i work from home I can cook most meals myself. When on holiday things change.. but going as low carb as you can then really helps me. It keeps my weight off and I dont have to worry too much.

[robblok]

Some great advise here for you.

About 10 years ago I lost 35kg in a year. I've had back surgery, so can't do any exercise which would strain or jolt my back. I can't run, but I can walk at 6km/hour. I walked 6km before going to work and after eating. Also had a very lame aerobic video for old people. My GP advised some LIGHT weights as this would strengthen my bones - I'm talking a 2 litre bottle of water in each hand, following another video for 20 mins each day.

The only other thing I did was eat less. I had a healthy diet, plenty (too much) fruit and veg, and I ate the same as I always have done, just smaller portions. I didn't ban anything, but instead of having an occasional slab of chocolate, I had a small bar, instead of a now and again jumbo bag of crisps, I had a small bag. Banning things from your diet only makes you crave them.

Losing 35kg is a fair effort, but I did it without any fancy stuff or expense (and I started this 2 months after stopping smoking 50 ciggies a day). It was actually a money saver, as I wasn't buying lots of sweets and crisps, but lost it again on buying a whole new wardrobe. That expense I certainly didn't mind. The weight has gradually crept back on, and I'm going to start doing more movement and smaller portions again after Christmas. Really, if I can do it, anyone can. I've got a Wii now, and playing tennis, bowling, boxing etc certainly works up a sweat but I know I need to get back into a routine of early morning exercise.

Keep in mind that swimming and cycling are not weight bearing exercise, so you don't burn as much energy, but you don't have a lot, if any, weight to lose. Perhaps turning some of the fat into muscle should be your aim. And walking should not be strolling; in this environment you'd be better off to get up early and walk before the day gets too warm.

Good luck, and remember beer is not good when you're trying to get into shape.

You are describing one problem i always worried about that is why i keep weighing myself and set upper weight limits. I have always worried that if I let go too much (and its easy) i gain my weight back. So I just make sure i never go above a certain weight and loosing 2 kg is not that hard. (i set the weight 2 kg above my normal weight)

[arend]

Forget special diets. They're stressful and you'll find yourself fighting your resistance, struggling for control and anxious about failure. Simplicity and moderation esp if you are on the go. Begin to eliminate unhealthy items such as fried foods, cake, soft drinks etc but one at a time. Build success. Eat healthy foods, more veggies and fruits, natural (ranch) meats, brown rice. etc. It's important to find the healthy foods that satisfy you. Eat local and what is in season mostly. I make healthy choices by doing my own cooking.

Exercise. You need aerobic for heart such as running, hiking, biking etc. Strength building, the old push-ups, leg lifts, pull ups etc is hard to beat without any equipment. Plenty of routines to Google. Personally, I also include 'energy' work such as yoga. I do tai chi. Provides combined internal massage, stretching, meditation and more.

Keep it simple, congruent to the resources you have and think long term. This is a life style choice and not a get fixed quick scheme....

[Lockheed]

Go to livestrong.com and find what interests you. Find an exercise you like, i ride bikes and aim for 1000k per month. Does not matter what you do but get your heart rate up, so buy a heart rate monitor if you want to be precise. I am riding through Laos at present so choose an activity where you can use it elsewhere like bike riding.

[Showbags]

See if any of this helps...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/678634-diet-tips-for-high-blood-pressure-and-cholesterol/page-5#entry7164235

That diet is an attempt at a classic calorie-counting diet. "Attempt" because it works against itself by incorporating foods w/ a needlessly high caloric/glycemic index. Sultanas? Calorie counting isn't as quick or as satisfying as low carb for losing weight, and most people can't sustain the suffering and starvation. But it does work if applied religiously. Up to you.

I attempted no such thing...I have no idea, well a little idea, but have never done, nor want to do anything that sounds like counting and weighing up every ounce of food you eat.

I simply ate what I believed to be good, what was mentioned in that thread as being good and either dropped or reduced the foods I had read were not so good.

But still ate what I liked and even the so called not good foods, I simply reduced them significantly.

I ate sultanas because I like them and they add a natural sweetness to the cereal without having to add sugar or honey...which I would have done before.

I lost 5 kilo in 6 weeks and it seems to be stable, so it worked for me, 3 out of the 4 highs are reduced thus far and only leaves cholesterol to be checked and the blood sugar to be sure.

[JSixpack]

@Jsixpack..

Did you read his book or not ?

I just gave you an extended quotation from the book. WHAT do you think?

Duh.

It was one sided real one sided

No, it wasn't at all. Strange you never give any example of that.

Those interested should read the book for themselves, or Gary Taube's more readable summary, Why We Get Fat: And What to Do About It. Read the hundreds of glowing reviews about both books.

where only his explanation was valid while he started of with saying he would examine both sides.. just like you said. It was a boring book with not much real science more statistics and anecdotal evidence. Not the kind of book I like, i like real lab tests controlled studies ect ect. Real science. I am still pro lo carb but his book did not much to convince me. The only part that was interesting was the part about insulin.

Nope, had a tremendous amount of science in it. But I'm not going to keep giving quote after quote for you. Enough w/ the spoonfeeding!

You keep repeating yourself w/ no evidence, whereas I give evidence. And you've already shown yourself to be saying nonsense on several points, like "zero carbs." TOTALLY false.

GCBC wasn't exactly a Stephen King novel, but you probably just found it MORE boring because you don't LIKE the message--a message that, since you can't refute, you just make false claims about. So, read the usual carbs in/carbs out, bust-your-butt lifting stuff that you love. How do you think you achieved pre-diabetes?

You see, nobody cares what you think or are convinced of. Main thing is, stop spreading lies and misinformation about the whole low carb thing, as you and Il Tropo (also a diabetic or pre-diabetic?) consistently do. You don't understand low carb, you won't dig into it, you don't like it . You can't understand the relationship of exercise to weight loss: you won't believe evidence that contradicts your cherished beliefs. And you just hate any perceived threat to your beloved oatmeal and muesli.

So, please just confine yourself to what you DO know about. That would be a lot more helpful to the members of the forum, not to have to filter out the buzz.

I'd encourage all members interested in losing weight (relatively quickly, with least effort, and with greatest hope of maintenance) to pay no attention to robblok and Il Tropo re: low carb and look into low carb for themselves, objectively. Member chiang mai did and found it worked quite well for him.

Point 2

Yes bodyweight exercises might work for a small percentage of people like him.

No, it'll of course work for anyone who wants to achieve cardiovascular/physical fitness. Body weight can be a heavy weight indeed, as anyone who's taken a gymnastics course will readily agree.

I would imagine many of our members, esp the overweight who come here, can't do a single pullup. And by the time they're able to do 20, assuming other body parts have been similarly worked, where do you think they are? Well, appearance and blood work will tell the story--no matter if YOU say it didn't work.

Just more nonsense that I hope doesn't discourage people from achieving physical fitness while saving time, money, and their joints.

Yawn.

[JSixpack]

See if any of this helps...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/678634-diet-tips-for-high-blood-pressure-and-cholesterol/page-5#entry7164235

That diet is an attempt at a classic calorie-counting diet. "Attempt" because it works against itself by incorporating foods w/ a needlessly high caloric/glycemic index. Sultanas? Calorie counting isn't as quick or as satisfying as low carb for losing weight, and most people can't sustain the suffering and starvation. But it does work if applied religiously. Up to you.

I attempted no such thing...I have no idea, well a little idea, but have never done, nor want to do anything that sounds like counting and weighing up every ounce of food you eat.

OK, you've achieved much a much lower calorie count without counting the calories.

Forget special diets. They're stressful and you'll find yourself fighting your resistance, struggling for control and anxious about failure. Simplicity and moderation esp if you are on the go. Begin to eliminate unhealthy items such as fried foods, cake, soft drinks etc but one at a time. Build success. Eat healthy foods, more veggies and fruits, natural (ranch) meats, brown rice. etc.

But that's a special diet.

You can eliminate all of the "unhealthy items" at one time. Fruits and rice, not recommended during a serious weight loss phase. Berries aren't too bad. Try adding back in after you've achieved ideal weight.

[h90]

That diet is an attempt at a classic calorie-counting diet. "Attempt" because it works against itself by incorporating foods w/ a needlessly high caloric/glycemic index. Sultanas? Calorie counting isn't as quick or as satisfying as low carb for losing weight, and most people can't sustain the suffering and starvation. But it does work if applied religiously. Up to you.

I attempted no such thing...I have no idea, well a little idea, but have never done, nor want to do anything that sounds like counting and weighing up every ounce of food you eat.

OK, you've achieved much a much lower calorie count without counting the calories.

Forget special diets. They're stressful and you'll find yourself fighting your resistance, struggling for control and anxious about failure. Simplicity and moderation esp if you are on the go. Begin to eliminate unhealthy items such as fried foods, cake, soft drinks etc but one at a time. Build success. Eat healthy foods, more veggies and fruits, natural (ranch) meats, brown rice. etc.

But that's a special diet.

You can eliminate all of the "unhealthy items" at one time. Fruits and rice, not recommended during a serious weight loss phase. Berries aren't too bad. Try adding back in after you've achieved ideal weight.

that can be discussed....Is a diet without fried food, cake, soft drinks a "special diet"? That would mean that we are very degenerated, already.

That should be the normal diet.

[Konini]

After reading all of the responses, and I have read Gary Taube's book, I would have to say that my way is still the way to go.

Ban nothing, eat less than you are now, do a bit of exercise every day.

[h90]

After reading all of the responses, and I have read Gary Taube's book, I would have to say that my way is still the way to go.

Ban nothing, eat less than you are now, do a bit of exercise every day.

sure works....but it is slower and need more will power.

If you let carbohydrates away you can easily loose a lot weight without much torture.

The choose of course also depends on how much weight you want to loose...is it 3 kg or is it 30 kg......has it time or does it need to go away now.....your personality...are you a patience person or one who want to break things now...

I so far lost 4 holes on the belt (I don't measure weight) I am now on the weight belt size of 2002-2003 and reduce further.

Done from 1st Nov. till now.

I would say 1 more month and than I add carbohydrates and heavy weight exercise and gain some muscles.

[perdido]

Most important,

No processed food or drink. In order of importance ....

Avoid anything with white flour, no fizzy drinks (alcoholic or plain), no fried food, nothing with sugar, no sweets, or snack food.

Lots of exercise, hiking up mountains (not flat), cycling, swimming.

At 50+ you shouldn't be lifting weights or jogging.

Once you lose weight, then you should be able to start sneaking in the bad food and drink.

I've lost 14Kg in the last year, my problem now is keeping weight on.

...find a good yoga class-cut out alcohol, fried food, bread, sweets, fizzy drinks, sweet drinks, sweet fizzy drinks, eat lots fruit and vegetables, legumes,etc....that'll do for....er starters, asit were...

[simon43]

Thanks for all this useful advice!

You'll note that in my OP, I never mentioned that I want (or need to) lose weight. I don't. My weight is about right for my height/body shape. It's more to do with needing to tone up and especially to improve my diet.

My heart rate at rest is quite good for my age, about 55 bpm. My blood pressure is normal.

Having lived in Myanmar previously, I know that there are some difficulties in buying certain foods that are easily-bought in Thailand. But there is plenty of frsh fruit and vegetables. I think a juicer is certainly a good idea since I do not cook at home. The western sanctions are reduced now, so food product availability should be improved.

As for my low testosterone, this is a genetic problem (my father also had very low T). I've previously had T implants under the skin about 10 years ago (before T injections were available). I feel it's better to try to increase my T levels naturally, since T injections could increase the risk of prostrate cancer.

Cycling/jogging is a good idea. For this visit to Yangon I'll be living/working near the lake, so I can hopefully in a nice environment.

What about evening food? This was a problem for me before because the street food was mainly pig entrails and the like, with bad sanitation. Most evenings, I used to eat freshly-prepared Chinese noodles as the only option for 'safe' street food. (My stomach is well-used to eating street food, but the sanitation in my Yangon locality was not good - many rats, people sh*tting in the street etc.).

Simon

[Showbags]

They shit in the street ??.....

[robblok]

@jsixpack

First of I am pro low card I will always be that, also his book is not advertising zero carbs. So we have that straight.

Its not the message I had the problem with, its more that correlation is not causality. I am just more a fan of lab tests then his population group a did this and later they got fat so its carbs message. I was more looking for a book with lab tests, so basically it was not what i was looking for.

[robblok]

Thanks for all this useful advice!

You'll note that in my OP, I never mentioned that I want (or need to) lose weight. I don't. My weight is about right for my height/body shape. It's more to do with needing to tone up and especially to improve my diet.

My heart rate at rest is quite good for my age, about 55 bpm. My blood pressure is normal.

Having lived in Myanmar previously, I know that there are some difficulties in buying certain foods that are easily-bought in Thailand. But there is plenty of frsh fruit and vegetables. I think a juicer is certainly a good idea since I do not cook at home. The western sanctions are reduced now, so food product availability should be improved.

As for my low testosterone, this is a genetic problem (my father also had very low T). I've previously had T implants under the skin about 10 years ago (before T injections were available). I feel it's better to try to increase my T levels naturally, since T injections could increase the risk of prostrate cancer.

Cycling/jogging is a good idea. For this visit to Yangon I'll be living/working near the lake, so I can hopefully in a nice environment.

What about evening food? This was a problem for me before because the street food was mainly pig entrails and the like, with bad sanitation. Most evenings, I used to eat freshly-prepared Chinese noodles as the only option for 'safe' street food. (My stomach is well-used to eating street food, but the sanitation in my Yangon locality was not good - many rats, people sh*tting in the street etc.).

Simon

Simon,

You can do a blood test showing if you have prostate cancer and such. I know people who do HRT test that regularly as that is indeed the risk.