Glow Plugs (Cost?)

[fiddlehead]

Seems the way my truck is starting rough and running a bit rough until warmed up, that it may very well be "glow plugs" need replacing.

My questions:
1/ How hard is this to do myself?
2/ How much should a garage charge me?

3/ Is it a fairly easy (inexpensive) changeout?

Thanks in advance.

[fiddlehead]

Oh sorry, It is a Toyota 2.0 Hi-Lux 4 cyl diesel.

[John 1]

Oh sorry, It is a Toyota 2.0 Hi-Lux 4 cyl diesel.

Easy to change but which 1 or do you mean the 4. The glow plugs are normally only required to start engine from cold it will start without them. I would get a meter and check if plugs are faulty then if not start to look at other reason's for rough running.

[fiddlehead]

Yes, the problem is much worse when it's cold.
That's why I think glow plugs are faulty.
If I check them with a meter, what should it read? (measure AC,DC or Ohms? )

[John 1]

Yes, the problem is much worse when it's cold.

That's why I think glow plugs are faulty.

If I check them with a meter, what should it read? (measure AC,DC or Ohms? )

There is a lot of info on the web. This is one easy method and you don't need a meter just pull out and test.

[nicton]

fiddlehead, on 19 Dec 2013 - 16:35, said:

Yes, the problem is much worse when it's cold.

That's why I think glow plugs are faulty.

If I check them with a meter, what should it read? (measure AC,DC or Ohms? )

It's probably the injection pump because of water in the diesel. As said the glow plugs are only needed to start.

[fiddlehead]

The problem ONLY seems to be when starting.
It runs fine once it's warmed up and on the road.

I've had this truck a long time. (7 years) and bought it 2nd hand, but it's been good to me and I take care of it.

So, there is definitely something wrong.
A friend of mine also suggested it could be the injection pump.
But, that's expensive (even just to check I believe)

I'll have to try to check the glow plugs.

What's the cost of replacing this injection pump (sorry, I am not too familiar with diesel engines as all my other vehicles have been benzine)

Thanks everyone.

[VocalNeal]

Have you tried bunging a bottle or three of fuel system/injection cleaner into the fuel tank?

[PeterSmiles]

The problem ONLY seems to be when starting.

It runs fine once it's warmed up and on the road.

I've had this truck a long time. (7 years) and bought it 2nd hand, but it's been good to me and I take care of it.

So, there is definitely something wrong.

A friend of mine also suggested it could be the injection pump.

But, that's expensive (even just to check I believe)

I'll have to try to check the glow plugs.

What's the cost of replacing this injection pump (sorry, I am not too familiar with diesel engines as all my other vehicles have been benzine)

Thanks everyone.

I doubt it are the glow plugs, as several other posters have pointed out, the glow plugs are redundant from the second your engine is running. So the " once it is warmed up " is the give away as at that point the glow plugs aren't functional for some time already. By the way, glow plugs are quite unnecessary in Thailand since the ambient temperature is high enough to start the engine without.

How long since you have changed the fuel filter? If long time already, I would start with that, then next have the injectors tested, which would be an inexpensive job.

[Pomthai]

Its unlikely to be glow plugs, though they could be making an existing problem appear worse if not functioning because starting might take slightly longer. As previously stated, glowplugs are only used for initial starting and in this climate, probably un-necessary. The engine should start just fine without them.

The problem is more than likely fuel related. Before you spend any real money, as suggested above, run some injector cleaner through the next tank of fuel. You can get away with doubling the dosage on occasions it won't do any harm.

If there is a seperator or drain on the bottom of the fuel filter, crack it open and drop out the water that will have accumilated in the bowl. If not replace the fuel filter - should be very cheap also replace the air filter, you'll be amazed how much better the engine performs.

If after the above is done it's still running rough, it might be as simple as the idle speed needs taking up just a touch. Without looking it is hard to tell how to increase it but look for an adjusting screw or similar like a bicycle brake cable tensioner where the throttle cable attaches to the inlet butterfly. Slowly take the tension up and remove slack from the cable. The problem might just go away by increasing the idle RPM by 50 or so.

If noithing else, all of the above is either free or cheap and in my opinion well worth doing before even considering touching injectors or injection pump.

[fiddlehead]

OK, I had already replaced the fuel filter

And I drained that little bit of water out too. And changed the air filter.
These werre all my first thoughts too.
So, today I went to a gas station and asked about the injector cleaner for diesels .

He didnt have any but told me to just mix a litre or 2 of gas into the tank next time I fill up.
What do you guys think of that trick?

If I decide to try it (gas) and it doesn't work (and I live through it), I guess I'll have to spend the big bucks and have the injector pump checked.
Apparently it's over 10,000 baht.

[Pomthai]

I'd use the proper cleaner. Theres usually loads to choose from in the car section of any reasonably sized Tescos. A small amount of gasoline wont hurt but id be doubtfull it would help either. I'm still doubtfull it's an injection pump problem because it doesn't explain it going away once warm.

Is it really only when the engine is stone cold? As in before everything has expanded? How many Kms and what year?

[VocalNeal]

According to the AA (UK) if one accidentally puts gasoline in a diesel as long as it is less then 10% it is safe to run the engine. So the locals advice is OK. E85 if you can find it as it has more alcohol to emulsify any water.

Then again if you have 500 baht and are going to Tesco!

DIY Sea Foam is 4 parts diesel, 2 parts Naptha (White Benzine in Thailand, used for paint thinning bottle has a yellow label) and 1 part 98% Isopropyl alcohol. (E85?)

Pharmacy might have 98% isopropyl but...

[John 1]

OK, I had already replaced the fuel filter

And I drained that little bit of water out too. And changed the air filter.

These werre all my first thoughts too.

So, today I went to a gas station and asked about the injector cleaner for diesels .

He didnt have any but told me to just mix a litre or 2 of gas into the tank next time I fill up.

What do you guys think of that trick?

If I decide to try it (gas) and it doesn't work (and I live through it), I guess I'll have to spend the big bucks and have the injector pump checked.

Apparently it's over 10,000 baht.

A few years ago I had the injectors cleaned and the injector pump checked and a seal replaced total cost 3,000bt this was in Rayong at a diesel service shop they have a clean room for doing this sort of work not general workshop.

[PeterSmiles]

OK, I had already replaced the fuel filter

And I drained that little bit of water out too. And changed the air filter.

These werre all my first thoughts too.

So, today I went to a gas station and asked about the injector cleaner for diesels .

He didnt have any but told me to just mix a litre or 2 of gas into the tank next time I fill up.

What do you guys think of that trick?

If I decide to try it (gas) and it doesn't work (and I live through it), I guess I'll have to spend the big bucks and have the injector pump checked.

Apparently it's over 10,000 baht.

Have you checked yet if you hear one of the injectors rattle when engine is cold.

[fiddlehead]

So now, I've found the proper additive at Tesco and driven the pickup 50 kms (put a whole bottle in when tank was half full)

No change.
Still running rough at start and idle.
I am going to try raising the idle speed up a touch as someone suggested.
I do appreciate all the advise guys.
But, it is really looking like I'll have to pay the big money and get the pump and injectors checked by a professional.

Thanks everyone.

[VocalNeal]

From another forum

Hi All,
As of 6 months ago I have purchased my first Mitsubishi, a 1997 Pajero GLS 2.8TD intercooler (300,000km) which had a cold start problem of running rough or stalling 10-15 seconds after starting.
After some research I found I was not alone with this problem and that the main conclusion was that the injector fuel pump front seal was leaking allowing air into the system. So after some more research I found that the Australian Government passed legislation in the late 1990's to have Sulphur removed from diesel fuels in Australia. So since 2000 we have ultra low sulphur in diesel fuel in Australia.
What does this matter I hear you ask? Well early diesel engine fuel systems relied on the sulphur to lubricate the fuel system seals. I could not afford the expensive pump rebuild which was the result of this so did some more research.
I purchased from one of our local auto parts stores a product called Diesel Power (part# CDP-1L) and after 3 full tank treatments had eliminated the starting problem. I can now say that after 6 months that this problem has definetly been fixed. I will say though that it MAY not work in all cases but at around $40 a bottle it is well worth trying for yourself.
With regard to another cold starting problem I have been having over the past couple of weeks, it has been that I have to crank over the engine a many number of times before it will start. It runs rough and billows out clouds of white smoke.
After reading a few threads regarding this I bought myself a set of glow plugs (PM-165) from local auto shop at about $15 each and replaced them last night. This morning a perfect start on first crank and absolutely no smoke. Was a much smoother drive down the road as well.
These plugs are only about 7 or 8 months old but two had failed upon testing. It seems the aftermarket plugs are much cheaper at $15 each compared to $70 each for genuine ones but will require replacing on a more regular basis.
Hope this helps some fellow diesel owners with the cold weather coming.
Cheers Dean.

[Jitar]

Neal, that's a good thought considering Thailand adopted low sulphur diesel early last year. There were issues with low sulphur diesel in Western countries when it was introduced a decade ago. However issues these were supposed to have been resolved by additives to maintain the lubricating qualities of the fuel. How old is the comment you attached? Hopefully the fuel suppliers in Thailand learned from the experience overseas.

[John 1]

Neal, that's a good thought considering Thailand adopted low sulphur diesel early last year. There were issues with low sulphur diesel in Western countries when it was introduced a decade ago. However issues these were supposed to have been resolved by additives to maintain the lubricating qualities of the fuel. How old is the comment you attached? Hopefully the fuel suppliers in Thailand learned from the experience overseas.

My post 14 said where I had seal replaced this was on a Mitsubishi. So low quality fuel this is 7 years ago. After that just added Castrol2t to the fuel for lubrication.

[VocalNeal]

Neal, that's a good thought considering Thailand adopted low sulphur diesel early last year. How old is the comment you attached?

Oct 2011

[Lancashirelad]

I think its heater plugs.

Several of you have said that once started the HP's are redundant. Not necessarily so, on some vehicles they are kept glowing, albeit at reduced power (voltage) for several minutes.

They are easy to change, just screw out & screw in - usually need a socket set, but some can be extremely difficult to get to. For instance in the case of the European Mercedes Sprinter van, its just about impossible with the engine in situ.

An easy way to test them in situ without a meter: Remove the wire from each one. Take a jump lead or length of wire from the connector on 1 plug at a time to the +ve battery terminal. When you touch to the terminal you should see a small spark, just touch it on & off. No spark = no current draw = duff plug.

To test the plug once taken out. Again attach a jump lead to the connector on the plug. Attach the other end of the jump lead to the +ve battery terminal. Holding the jump lead clip touch the metal body of the plug to a suitable earth point or the -ve batt terminal. If working the plug will immediately glow red hot. BE CAREFUL they get RED HOT & stay hot for some time.

Edited December 25, 2013 by Lancashirelad