Anti-govt protesters rally across Thai capital

[VegasVic]

Of the various worldwide and in country news reports that I have found, the number of protestors seems to range from 80,000-150,000 across all areas of the city a far cry from the 2 millions that suthep was expecting! The one thing that all of these news agencies seem to agree upon is that the crowds were smaller than the initial protests back in November Now given that many of these protestors were paid 300-500 baht to show up and the fact that Bangkok has a population approaching 12 million people, even if the number is 150,000 it is such a far cry from organizer expectations that this movement seems to be decreasing in strength rather than growing. I think that most people have come to see suthep for what he is, a self serving corrupt politician who desperately wants to be back in power and avoid prosecution on murder charges. I'm certain that suthep will announce that this was a great victory and there will another "final" massive protest that will draw millions, but it would seem that the citizens and shopkeepers in Bangkok (even those who agree with suthep) are getting fed up with this nonsense and so my guess is that this was the last hurrah Now the lunatic fringe here on thaivisa can freely reply to this post with their claims of 500,000+ protestors and that Yingluck will be ousted, but alas the facts are the facts no matter how much one wishes them to be not so

[blokker]

Regardless of the numbers attending it will only equate to about 1% of the electorate that voted in this democratically elected government. So Suthep is not talking for the people...hes talking for his people

Yeah, the educated peeps from Bangkok. Can be bought with vague promises about a people's council and undefined reforms...

While the rural poor at least insist on some cash in the pocket and actual policies,

like a universal health-care scheme, village funds, etc....

Now who's a buffalo here?

Edited December 22, 2013 by blokker

[LadPhrao1]

Reading through the international press those that quote numbers put the crowds in the "tens of thousands," not hundreds of thousands or millions.

Oh! This is going to be very distressing to all the desktop Generals striving to keep those protestor counts up, up, up.

Like their demagogue leader, 2 to 3 million or 3 to 5 million or even just 100,000 to 200,000. It's so important to keep up the appearances.

Not to worry though, fresh tinfoil hats issued again tomorrow while their fruitcake leader lunges at people's right to run for offices and their right to vote in elections.

The air is leaking out of the balloon...

[Ozymandias]

It's interesting (if unsurprising & ultimately depressing) to discover that this set of posts is a microcosm of the polarization accelerating within Thailand. In the pursuit of true reconciliation, if that is possible, and in order to discover which if any posters are willing or able to suspend their rabid and pointless tit-for-tat posts, I wonder if we can all agree to the following:

1. Bangkok is economically vital to Thailand's future but its population does not constitute an electoral majority.

2. The current round of protests are large but smaller than previous turnouts.

3. Reform is preferable within a democratic framework.

4. A coup (military or civilian) will create more problems than it solves.

5. Thaksin was corrupt in office. (BKK land purchases etc.)

6. Suthep was corrupt in office (Phuket land sell-offs, palm oil 'deals')

7. An anti-corruption movement is not ideally led by a corrupt politician.

8. The attempt by Yingluck to pass an amnesty bill was crude, blatant and an insult to those that died in 2010.

9. True reform of the political system to make it less viable to influence by big money is absolutely necessary.

10. No family should inherit influence in a true democracy.

11. Pre-Thaksin political parties largely ignored the plight of the poor in favor of policies that benefitted their Bangkok supporters.

12. Thaksin upset the status quo by garnering support from the above.

13. All political parties, to a greater or lesser extent, attempt to buy votes.

14. Most of the electorate vote for the party that promise to raise their living standards, as compared to this benefit election bribes are tiny.

15. Most Thai politicians/protest leaders of all colours are egotists/power hungry.

16. The above runs counter to the central tenets of Buddhism.

17. The country will be worse off if each side continues to reject the position of the other.

18. To move forward, justice needs to prevail for ALL who have committed crimes.

19. To move forward, ALL parties need to cater to the needs of ALL Thais not only their supporters/constituents

20. Without sincere compromise from all sides, Thailand is heading for civil war.

I wonder how many you can consider & agree to. You will, of course, need to set aside your passions for a while. If you're a true Buddhist, that should be easy.

Thank you.

That was nourishing reading.

I largely agree with it, and I think most intelligent people would.

However, there is a force at work everywhere in the world that is driven by human nature and that can not be resisted, which has been proven for millenia, and despite all the horror stories of the past will always be the crux of why there will always be division in all societies no matter how much man attempts to resist it.

That force is 'tribalism'.

It is the main reason humans are incapable of learning from the mistakes of history.

[MAJIC]

Funny that.

I just been on BBC News Asia, if it is anywhere, it is there.

No mention of it.... just another pro government supporter lying. Strange how most of them lie on here and get found out.

The only thing on there is another wildly inaccurate report from Johnathon 'Dick' Head.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25483401

A few hilarious snippets.

'Tens of thousands of opposition-backed protesters have marched through the Thai capital' (try hundreds of thousands).

'The protesters massed at five main intersections,' ( I believe it was 15 plus YL's crib).

'Protests began nearly a month ago' (erm... try almost 2 months ago).

Seriously, does this guy even know what is going on here?

Jonathan Head is a VERY respected journalist and you are a pig ignorant poster

As a Brit, I find him an embarrassment,

He makes it up as he goes along,so no insight,other than what he see's,we probably know more than he does. Boring stuff!

[Ozymandias]

It's interesting (if unsurprising & ultimately depressing) to discover that this set of posts is a microcosm of the polarization accelerating within Thailand. In the pursuit of true reconciliation, if that is possible, and in order to discover which if any posters are willing or able to suspend their rabid and pointless tit-for-tat posts, I wonder if we can all agree to the following:

1. Bangkok is economically vital to Thailand's future but its population does not constitute an electoral majority.

2. The current round of protests are large but smaller than previous turnouts.

3. Reform is preferable within a democratic framework.

4. A coup (military or civilian) will create more problems than it solves.

5. Thaksin was corrupt in office. (BKK land purchases etc.)

6. Suthep was corrupt in office (Phuket land sell-offs, palm oil 'deals')

7. An anti-corruption movement is not ideally led by a corrupt politician.

8. The attempt by Yingluck to pass an amnesty bill was crude, blatant and an insult to those that died in 2010.

9. True reform of the political system to make it less viable to influence by big money is absolutely necessary.

10. No family should inherit influence in a true democracy.

11. Pre-Thaksin political parties largely ignored the plight of the poor in favor of policies that benefitted their Bangkok supporters.

12. Thaksin upset the status quo by garnering support from the above.

13. All political parties, to a greater or lesser extent, attempt to buy votes.

14. Most of the electorate vote for the party that promise to raise their living standards, as compared to this benefit election bribes are tiny.

15. Most Thai politicians/protest leaders of all colours are egotists/power hungry.

16. The above runs counter to the central tenets of Buddhism.

17. The country will be worse off if each side continues to reject the position of the other.

18. To move forward, justice needs to prevail for ALL who have committed crimes.

19. To move forward, ALL parties need to cater to the needs of ALL Thais not only their supporters/constituents

20. Without sincere compromise from all sides, Thailand is heading for civil war.

I wonder how many you can consider & agree to. You will, of course, need to set aside your passions for a while. If you're a true Buddhist, that should be easy.

Thank you.

That was nourishing reading.

I largely agree with it, and I think most intelligent people would.

However, there is a force at work everywhere in the world that is driven by human nature and that can not be resisted, which has been proven for millenia, and despite all the horror stories of the past will always be the crux of why there will always be division in all societies no matter how much man attempts to resist it.

That force is 'tribalism'.

It is the main reason humans are incapable of learning from the mistakes of history.

I don't agree with your pessimism, but I do agree that there is a tribal element to the current conflicts. However, rather than blow whistles & follow ego-driven protest leaders (both sides) Thai people would, in my view, avoid the obliteration of their country by finding common ground & agreeing that concessions do need to be made by both sides. Spitting bile on this forum does nothing to contribute to a stable future for this country.

[Ozymandias]

Sorry for the above mess. I'm only just getting used to the way quote bars work!

[kimamey]

Doesn't Suthep think it odd that only Bangkok folks are protesting, and only a fraction of the numbers he reports? It's amazing how little support this guy has.

I doubt that's correct. My wife's friend is going today and she asked my wife to go as well but I'm not sure if she will. They are from Isaan but are in Bangkok anyway. I know of others that have gone from Isaan as well so I suspect there are others and I know there are a lot from the south as well. I don't know about now but I'm sure I heard there were protests elsewhere in places like Khon Kaen.

Other provinces also having their own gathering protest.

Phichit Thai folks are at the Bkk too.

My wife did go in the end.

I know where we live outside of the city almost every house has a red shirt outside it but according to the wife it's not the same in the city. Of course you don't see anything outside the houses of those who aren't red supporters but I know that in our family the reds are outnumbered and the same is true in her office.

[Basil B]

Old Suthep is being handed cash every second almost... watching it on BSTV.

Up yours DSI....lol

So the protesters are giving cash to the protest organizers...

Rather different to the other mob!!!

[Ozymandias]

It's interesting (if unsurprising & ultimately depressing) to discover that this set of posts is a microcosm of the polarization accelerating within Thailand. In the pursuit of true reconciliation, if that is possible, and in order to discover which if any posters are willing or able to suspend their rabid and pointless tit-for-tat posts, I wonder if we can all agree to the following:

1. Bangkok is economically vital to Thailand's future but its population does not constitute an electoral majority.

2. The current round of protests are large but smaller than previous turnouts.

3. Reform is preferable within a democratic framework.

4. A coup (military or civilian) will create more problems than it solves.

5. Thaksin was corrupt in office. (BKK land purchases etc.)

6. Suthep was corrupt in office (Phuket land sell-offs, palm oil 'deals')

7. An anti-corruption movement is not ideally led by a corrupt politician.

8. The attempt by Yingluck to pass an amnesty bill was crude, blatant and an insult to those that died in 2010.

9. True reform of the political system to make it less viable to influence by big money is absolutely necessary.

10. No family should inherit influence in a true democracy.

11. Pre-Thaksin political parties largely ignored the plight of the poor in favor of policies that benefitted their Bangkok supporters.

12. Thaksin upset the status quo by garnering support from the above.

13. All political parties, to a greater or lesser extent, attempt to buy votes.

14. Most of the electorate vote for the party that promise to raise their living standards, as compared to this benefit election bribes are tiny.

15. Most Thai politicians/protest leaders of all colours are egotists/power hungry.

16. The above runs counter to the central tenets of Buddhism.

17. The country will be worse off if each side continues to reject the position of the other.

18. To move forward, justice needs to prevail for ALL who have committed crimes.

19. To move forward, ALL parties need to cater to the needs of ALL Thais not only their supporters/constituents

20. Without sincere compromise from all sides, Thailand is heading for civil war.

I wonder how many you can consider & agree to. You will, of course, need to set aside your passions for a while. If you're a true Buddhist, that should be easy.

As for #20, I don't think there is a chance in hades of a civil war. Most Thais now have too much to lose, and that includes most of the folks in Issan. If Thaksin does want a war, he might be a victim of his own policies. People in Issan have work, and thanks to the government, they have mobile phones, satellite TV, scooters, and plenty of access to whisky. Like most people in the world, they'll come home after a hard day's work, turn on the TV to watch a soap opera or a soccer game and be happy. Or at least not upset enough to take to the jungle (what little of it is left in Thailand) and die for the Shins.

I take your point, but if you look at how civil wars have played out through history, they often come about through years of the kind of political brinkmanship which is currently in, possibly, it's early stages. It's rarely a decision taken by politicians through consultation with their constituents, in any case.

[tilac2]

I'm curious why there is this campaign of vilification against Jonathan Head. I find his reports to be models of balance, and very well presented. He is highly articulate and very 'camera friendly'. I used to be a TV documentary producer so I think I know what I'm talking about.

There are, in previous posts, some specific criticisms of his language:

1. 'Tens of thousands' - that's exactly the phrase that I would have used, given that there are disagreements about the actual figures.

2. 'Five intersections' - he was suggesting that these were the main sites, not that these were the only sites.

3. 'Nearly a month ago' - yes, this does seem inaccurate, depending which protests are referred to. The major escalation occurred in late November as I recall, but there were protests before that. This wording should probably be corrected.

In any case, these are minor details. What you hope for in a journalist is that he/she has a high-level appreciation of the issues, not that he/she never makes minor mistakes. Additionally, I'd suggest that it might be quite hard to keep an eye on print postings on the BBC site when one is having to go all over the city to present to-camera pieces.

One thing that I much appreciate about JH's reports is that, while he reports on the current events in Bangkok, he does not forget that there is a whole other Thailand, including in the N and NE.

Funny that.

I just been on BBC News Asia, if it is anywhere, it is there.

No mention of it.... just another pro government supporter lying. Strange how most of them lie on here and get found out.

The only thing on there is another wildly inaccurate report from Johnathon 'Dick' Head.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25483401

A few hilarious snippets.

'Tens of thousands of opposition-backed protesters have marched through the Thai capital' (try hundreds of thousands).

'The protesters massed at five main intersections,' ( I believe it was 15 plus YL's crib).

'Protests began nearly a month ago' (erm... try almost 2 months ago).

Seriously, does this guy even know what is going on here?

Jonathan Head is a VERY respected journalist and you are a pig ignorant poster

As a Brit, I find him an embarrassment,

[ratcatcher]

Sorry for the above mess. I'm only just getting used to the way quote bars work!

Wait till you find out how beer bars work.

[ozterix]

JHead and the BBC are an embarrassment, I agree. As for estimating the number at 150000, either the guy is blind or he never saw a football stadium.

[kimamey]

Of the various worldwide and in country news reports that I have found, the number of protestors seems to range from 80,000-150,000 across all areas of the city a far cry from the 2 millions that suthep was expecting! The one thing that all of these news agencies seem to agree upon is that the crowds were smaller than the initial protests back in November Now given that many of these protestors were paid 300-500 baht to show up and the fact that Bangkok has a population approaching 12 million people, even if the number is 150,000 it is such a far cry from organizer expectations that this movement seems to be decreasing in strength rather than growing. I think that most people have come to see suthep for what he is, a self serving corrupt politician who desperately wants to be back in power and avoid prosecution on murder charges. I'm certain that suthep will announce that this was a great victory and there will another "final" massive protest that will draw millions, but it would seem that the citizens and shopkeepers in Bangkok (even those who agree with suthep) are getting fed up with this nonsense and so my guess is that this was the last hurrah Now the lunatic fringe here on thaivisa can freely reply to this post with their claims of 500,000+ protestors and that Yingluck will be ousted, but alas the facts are the facts no matter how much one wishes them to be not so

I'm sure the numbers are less than Suthep and his supporters claim and more than the government supporters claim. That's normally the case with any protest anywhere and there is usually a fall off after the initial enthusiasm. The protests are still going on which is more to the point. It's also likely that he would like to get back in power if he could and he may see this as his only chance.

Where you have got it completely wrong is in regard to the murder charge. If you'd been paying attention you would know that he and Abhisit have been offered an amnesty on more than one occasion and turned it down every time. You would also know that neither Suthep or Abhisit murdered anyone. They gave orders to the military stating under what circumstances they were permitted to shoot at protesters or others in the area. Those instructions would almost certainly have been drawn up with the help of the army. In all the cases I've seen so far the criteria for the shootings that took place were not met. That means that the army are responsible for the killings. Have you noticed how many of those soldiers that actually carried out the killings have been charged with murder and disobeying orders.

The government knows that if they pursued the real killers there's a risk the military would kick them out and they love the power as much as Suthep and don't seem to want to risk losing it.

[gerry1011]

JHead and the BBC are an embarrassment, I agree. As for estimating the number at 150000, either the guy is blind or he never saw a football stadium.

6 million people

Ah ah ah

Nice picture but the caption is a bit funny

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[MAJIC]

It's interesting (if unsurprising & ultimately depressing) to discover that this set of posts is a microcosm of the polarization accelerating within Thailand. In the pursuit of true reconciliation, if that is possible, and in order to discover which if any posters are willing or able to suspend their rabid and pointless tit-for-tat posts, I wonder if we can all agree to the following:

1. Bangkok is economically vital to Thailand's future but its population does not constitute an electoral majority.

2. The current round of protests are large but smaller than previous turnouts.

3. Reform is preferable within a democratic framework.

4. A coup (military or civilian) will create more problems than it solves.

5. Thaksin was corrupt in office. (BKK land purchases etc.)

6. Suthep was corrupt in office (Phuket land sell-offs, palm oil 'deals')

7. An anti-corruption movement is not ideally led by a corrupt politician.

8. The attempt by Yingluck to pass an amnesty bill was crude, blatant and an insult to those that died in 2010.

9. True reform of the political system to make it less viable to influence by big money is absolutely necessary.

10. No family should inherit influence in a true democracy.

11. Pre-Thaksin political parties largely ignored the plight of the poor in favor of policies that benefitted their Bangkok supporters.

12. Thaksin upset the status quo by garnering support from the above.

13. All political parties, to a greater or lesser extent, attempt to buy votes.

14. Most of the electorate vote for the party that promise to raise their living standards, as compared to this benefit election bribes are tiny.

15. Most Thai politicians/protest leaders of all colours are egotists/power hungry.

16. The above runs counter to the central tenets of Buddhism.

17. The country will be worse off if each side continues to reject the position of the other.

18. To move forward, justice needs to prevail for ALL who have committed crimes.

19. To move forward, ALL parties need to cater to the needs of ALL Thais not only their supporters/constituents

20. Without sincere compromise from all sides, Thailand is heading for civil war.

I wonder how many you can consider & agree to. You will, of course, need to set aside your passions for a while. If you're a true Buddhist, that should be easy.

Definitely I agree with every single point. Your post is right on the spot.

This is not moment for get irate and rabid, put cool down and try to make some constructive debate, leaving conflicts and extremism apart.

I surely agree on all 20 points, and wish a better future for Thailand and my family...

It's not whether you agree on all 20 points,it's' if Thais do,they have a vote, unless you are Thai,you,me, and the small exception of Naturalised, "Farangs" don't.

So all our arguments and dissent,is purely Academic, And it doesn't matter if you feel like a Thai,act like aThai,struggle to be a Naturalised Thai,at the end of your efforts you will never be accepted as a Thai!,although some go to great lengths to convince themselves and others of their Thainess.

So just relax, all your declaration of who will be the best Party for Thailand, is not our concern,we influence nothing,or nobody,and never will do. The present conflict of eradicating Corruption,is merely one step in the right direction,one that I would not wish to struggle against in my own Country,this effort is going to take many decades to realise,if at all.

So perhaps we should accept things as they are,and not get too involved,(especially politics) take what is needed from Thailand (of which we pay for) and carry on having a good time,and having our say on TV, and not take it too literally,treat it at best as an interest in life, which we can't get fully involved in,because although we have the entrance fee,but not the background,which money can't buy! as a analogy,comparable to taking your Bull Dog for a long stay in France,whereby it gives Birth to Pups, which would still be Bull dogs,however long they lived there,and never French Poodles....

[spirit47]

It's interesting (if unsurprising & ultimately depressing) to discover that this set of posts is a microcosm of the polarization accelerating within Thailand. In the pursuit of true reconciliation, if that is possible, and in order to discover which if any posters are willing or able to suspend their rabid and pointless tit-for-tat posts, I wonder if we can all agree to the following:

1. Bangkok is economically vital to Thailand's future but its population does not constitute an electoral majority.

2. The current round of protests are large but smaller than previous turnouts.

3. Reform is preferable within a democratic framework.

4. A coup (military or civilian) will create more problems than it solves.

5. Thaksin was corrupt in office. (BKK land purchases etc.)

6. Suthep was corrupt in office (Phuket land sell-offs, palm oil 'deals')

7. An anti-corruption movement is not ideally led by a corrupt politician.

8. The attempt by Yingluck to pass an amnesty bill was crude, blatant and an insult to those that died in 2010.

9. True reform of the political system to make it less viable to influence by big money is absolutely necessary.

10. No family should inherit influence in a true democracy.

11. Pre-Thaksin political parties largely ignored the plight of the poor in favor of policies that benefitted their Bangkok supporters.

12. Thaksin upset the status quo by garnering support from the above.

13. All political parties, to a greater or lesser extent, attempt to buy votes.

14. Most of the electorate vote for the party that promise to raise their living standards, as compared to this benefit election bribes are tiny.

15. Most Thai politicians/protest leaders of all colours are egotists/power hungry.

16. The above runs counter to the central tenets of Buddhism.

17. The country will be worse off if each side continues to reject the position of the other.

18. To move forward, justice needs to prevail for ALL who have committed crimes.

19. To move forward, ALL parties need to cater to the needs of ALL Thais not only their supporters/constituents

20. Without sincere compromise from all sides, Thailand is heading for civil war.

I wonder how many you can consider & agree to. You will, of course, need to set aside your passions for a while. If you're a true Buddhist, that should be easy.

Thank you.

That was nourishing reading.

I largely agree with it, and I think most intelligent people would.

However, there is a force at work everywhere in the world that is driven by human nature and that can not be resisted, which has been proven for millenia, and despite all the horror stories of the past will always be the crux of why there will always be division in all societies no matter how much man attempts to resist it.

That force is 'tribalism'.

It is the main reason humans are incapable of learning from the mistakes of history.

I dont think that tribalism is the problem, its like the family a part of everybodys identity, and I love the diversity. "Divide et impera", the problem is the ruling class: Giving people a image of the enemy and they follow you. So we have different parties, but you can choose what you want, the result is nearly the same. But if people aware, it can help to make the world a better place. Money rules the world, but it dont make people happy, only if you share...

[MAJIC]

This was a mega flop. Lumpini Park is deserted, no one left at Asoke, very thin and dispirited protest marching down Sukhivit...2 abreast. People have voted with their feet on Khun Suthep by staying away in droves

Sorry but that doesn't mesh with what I saw today and last night. There was a constant stream of people going across PinKlao bridge from yesterday afternoon and all today. Cars, minibuses and big buses parked everywhere. The whole bridge a mass of people by this afternoon + ferries packed too.

By the way, I'm not on the side of Suthep so am not biased. I happen to think that the previous election result gave Yingluk and co a mandate - but it seems that many many Thais disagree, and this is their country.

I don't disagree that many Thais don't like the current govt. That is a given. However, I expected today to be some kind of final show of force ( perhaps reflecting the incessant assurances from. Suthep that things would be clarified and life would go on). That show of force simply did not happen. I was very surprised at how vey easy it was to move around town today. " we will paralyse the city"....didn't happen. The numbers were low , much lower than projections, way lower than claims.

It doesn't matter if it was 50,000 or 80,000....but he need hundreds of thousands today and they didn't show up. These kind of movements rarely succeed in the context of declining public support ( cf Marcos).

I was genuinely surprised at the low crowds.

Something's got to give here and I can't see that being the PM

"I was genuinely surprised at the low crowds."

You've written comments about low numbers' more times today than can be counted, and been rebuffed every time and with numerous photos of quite large crowds at numerous venues at a given time.

Your becoming boring.

Becoming?

[Emptyset]

JHead and the BBC are an embarrassment, I agree. As for estimating the number at 150000, either the guy is blind or he never saw a football stadium.

Yep, he's an embarassment but the picture you've posted - produced presumably by Blue Sky TV - which claims there were six million people is totally reliable. I guess we'll just have to rely on that totally unbiased source in future and ignore the corrupt foreign media. CNN get out!

ASTV also tells the truth, although now Sondhi has started criticizing Suthep, we should be careful. Can we be sure he won't be paid by Thaksin to lie about the biggest peaceful protest the world has ever seen like the evil foreign journalists are? (Was tempted to try to write this in the voice of Spare but managed to resist).

Incidentally, Jonathan Head hasn't given any estimates and never does.

[blaze]

It's pretty much a given that this government is finished. Whether judicial coup or simply bowing out to avoid catastrophe-

but then the question - the elephant in the room = is how will its supporters react?

Where will Thailand be next Christmas? Corruption free (sorry boys but the whorehouse/gogo bars shut down- the fake viagra off the streets)

Or under the Iron Boot?

Or awash with UN troops trying to bring order in a situation best described as- chaos. Chaos precipitated in part by competing elements in the armed forces?

Will the issan reds have mutely resigned themselves to political silence?

Will fascist Thailand still be a respected member of the intaernational communities?

Or will they use stuff like human rights, copywrite laws- to isolate Thailand along with Iran and Cuba?

How will the whistle monkeys deal with the fact that in one year their lives have not gotten better but maybe, worse?

Will they demand that Suthep be thrown out of the country because he didn't bring the promised land?

Of course, as disappointment sets in, it will all be the fault of foreigners. Will we still be safe to walk the streets?

Oh well- why bother with all that 'iffy stuff now- now is fun=- parteeeeee.

But I predict a hell of a hangover.

[MAJIC]

I have to admit that vote buying is one thing both the democrat and for thai parties do. And since both of the parties know that the act of buying votes will not determine the winner, so they opt to buy the winner instead. If you have been living in Thailand for some time, you should know by now that in each region, there is at least one or two prominent political figures and most likely they'll win the election in their areas. So Thaksin put this idea into practice. He knows he needs only 300 winners, so he'd buy the prominent political figure of each regions who are likely to attain lower house of representatives status into his party. By giving them each 20 millions, he could buy Thailand just under 6 billion bahts or under 200 million USD. Very cheap for buying a country, don't you agree?

Did you know that these same people were being offered 40 million per head to join with the Democrat coalition? Newin's Bhumjaithai party accepted the loot along with three cash generating ministries to run, giving the Democrats enough seats to form a government. The rest, as they say, is history.

i was offered 100 million baht (I would have accepted GBP or Euro) by taksin to get 100 mercenaries and take over Thailand instead of having to go through all this pretence. What a cheapskate so he paid 2000 baht each to al pad of local inexperienced mercenaries and look at result.

Well forgive me if I don't take your post to seriously- not since those lousy Klingons told me to invade Mars- and wouldn't lift a goddamned finger when I got lost in space.

Seriously though- good post- confirming the suspcion that a lot of foreign supporters of this 'protest' are simply- nuts.

Here's a real life Muppet who fancied himself as a Coup Maker,and sent in his Mercenaries by Helicopter!

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jun/19/equatorialguinea.southafrica

[Maha Sarakham Marty]

Now given that many of these protestors were paid 300-500 baht to show up

BS.

No they weren't.

[Smokemachine]

Anyone saw today BangkokPost news?

It reported Jatuporn warned the millitary not to stage a coup as promised earlier.

"Maybe they think they can defeat the Thaksin regime by not competing in the election," he added.

Finally he admitted it's all about the Thaksin regime=TS dictatorship.

[Ozymandias]

It's interesting (if unsurprising & ultimately depressing) to discover that this set of posts is a microcosm of the polarization accelerating within Thailand. In the pursuit of true reconciliation, if that is possible, and in order to discover which if any posters are willing or able to suspend their rabid and pointless tit-for-tat posts, I wonder if we can all agree to the following:

1. Bangkok is economically vital to Thailand's future but its population does not constitute an electoral majority.

2. The current round of protests are large but smaller than previous turnouts.

3. Reform is preferable within a democratic framework.

4. A coup (military or civilian) will create more problems than it solves.

5. Thaksin was corrupt in office. (BKK land purchases etc.)

6. Suthep was corrupt in office (Phuket land sell-offs, palm oil 'deals')

7. An anti-corruption movement is not ideally led by a corrupt politician.

8. The attempt by Yingluck to pass an amnesty bill was crude, blatant and an insult to those that died in 2010.

9. True reform of the political system to make it less viable to influence by big money is absolutely necessary.

10. No family should inherit influence in a true democracy.

11. Pre-Thaksin political parties largely ignored the plight of the poor in favor of policies that benefitted their Bangkok supporters.

12. Thaksin upset the status quo by garnering support from the above.

13. All political parties, to a greater or lesser extent, attempt to buy votes.

14. Most of the electorate vote for the party that promise to raise their living standards, as compared to this benefit election bribes are tiny.

15. Most Thai politicians/protest leaders of all colours are egotists/power hungry.

16. The above runs counter to the central tenets of Buddhism.

17. The country will be worse off if each side continues to reject the position of the other.

18. To move forward, justice needs to prevail for ALL who have committed crimes.

19. To move forward, ALL parties need to cater to the needs of ALL Thais not only their supporters/constituents

20. Without sincere compromise from all sides, Thailand is heading for civil war.

I wonder how many you can consider & agree to. You will, of course, need to set aside your passions for a while. If you're a true Buddhist, that should be easy.

Definitely I agree with every single point. Your post is right on the spot.

This is not moment for get irate and rabid, put cool down and try to make some constructive debate, leaving conflicts and extremism apart.

I surely agree on all 20 points, and wish a better future for Thailand and my family...

It's not whether you agree on all 20 points,it's' if Thais do,they have a vote, unless you are Thai,you,me, and the small exception of Naturalised, "Farangs" don't.

So all our arguments and dissent,is purely Academic, And it doesn't matter if you feel like a Thai,act like aThai,struggle to be a Naturalised Thai,at the end of your efforts you will never be accepted as a Thai!,although some go to great lengths to convince themselves and others of their Thainess.

So just relax, all your declaration of who will be the best Party for Thailand, is not our concern,we influence nothing,or nobody,and never will do. The present conflict of eradicating Corruption,is merely one step in the right direction,one that I would not wish to struggle against in my own Country,this effort is going to take many decades to realise,if at all.

So perhaps we should accept things as they are,and not get too involved,(especially politics) take what is needed from Thailand (of which we pay for) and carry on having a good time,and having our say on TV, and not take it too literally,treat it at best as an interest in life, which we can't get fully involved in,because although we have the entrance fee,but not the background,which money can't buy! as a analogy,comparable to taking your Bull Dog for a long stay in France,whereby it gives Birth to Pups, which would still be Bull dogs,however long they lived there,and never French Poodles....

It's difficult to accept your neighbors ratcheting up tensions outside your house when you were hoping to bring up your child in a peaceful environment. I agree with the mantra: change what you cannot accept but accept what you cannot change BUT there is always the option of leaving for bi-cultural families if things become too ugly. Hopefully, reason will prevail before it's too late. Unlike some posters, though I did bring up the prospect of civil war, I don't think Thai people will allow their leaders to take them that far - but winding the clock back to Sep 2006 certainly will be a step in that direction. Anybody who supports such a move, in my view, has a selective memory & needs to consider how this will feed into the resentment of N & NE voters whose opinions & feelings have a history of being devalued.

There is a lot of bleating 'sheep' here by both flocks neither of whom can make anything but a laughable claim to reason as we see many times on this forum. In some political circles, it seems democracy is understood to the same extent it is in North Korea or Laos, as nomenclature to give superficial credibility where there is not only no conviction in democracy as a principle but in fact a vigorous disdain for it, unless and until it brings personal benefits. These are the people who are not ready for democracy & so want to scrap it, though they will claim it is for the benefit of the 'uneducated' & somehow get away with this erroneous & patronizing remark. The other side, however, needs to develop more sincere political principles & stop treating its supporters as a means to an end.

[MrSlatersParrot]

The attempts at making perceptions change in general thought about this rally,

and it's support are a truly Sisyphus-ian job. Rolling a large rock up s super steep hill,

only to see it roll to the bottom... and then the boss says start again.

The usual suspects hard at work trying to confuse, disorient, and make international observations opaque.

lost in translation for me

need a better thai english dictionary

[MrSlatersParrot]

This was a mega flop. Lumpini Park is deserted, no one left at Asoke, very thin and dispirited protest marching down Sukhivit...2 abreast. People have voted with their feet on Khun Suthep by staying away in droves

I don't know why you bother! clearly the Television footage shows the opposite,and is probably the largest demonstration to date.

Not according to every major news source in the world ( range: tens of thousands- 70,000). Blue Sky claims 630,000. Delusional. Far fewer than 2 weeks ago. Most people are sick and tired on this lunacy and want it to end

just a round up

is it 630,000 they claim or is it now 6,000,000?

[MrSlatersParrot]

Luckily I have ExpatTV internet TV and I get all the British mainstream channels in HD through my internet connection, I also get the ability to record and upload to youtube, and I also have 7 days rewind on demand.

I scanned both BBC News UK and World news, and it is the same Johnathon Head report in a loop.

Here it is..... bullshitters exposed once again.....lol

Try a little harder next time.... This is 2013 we have the technology to expose you.

doesn't get out much though

[Emptyset]

This was a mega flop. Lumpini Park is deserted, no one left at Asoke, very thin and dispirited protest marching down Sukhivit...2 abreast. People have voted with their feet on Khun Suthep by staying away in droves

I don't know why you bother! clearly the Television footage shows the opposite,and is probably the largest demonstration to date.

Not according to every major news source in the world ( range: tens of thousands- 70,000). Blue Sky claims 630,000. Delusional. Far fewer than 2 weeks ago. Most people are sick and tired on this lunacy and want it to end

just a round up

is it 630,000 they claim or is it now 6,000,000?

The latter...

[pumpuiman]

JHead and the BBC are an embarrassment, I agree. As for estimating the number at 150000, either the guy is blind or he never saw a football stadium.

I was curious, so I blew up the crowd photo from your post. I counted a section of the crowd to 100 people, then estimated (conservatively) 1000 people. I then.very conservatively tried to estimate the total from one photo.....try it.....you will be very hard pressed to get 100,000 people.

I'm not looking for an argument or anything....I just did a little experiment and thought others might give it a go..see what numbers others come up with, using the same system.

Edited December 22, 2013 by pumpuiman

[MrSlatersParrot]

Those who are posting on here in support of these protests might like to consider the sort of people they're supporting:

RT@BangkokLife: Thai woman shouting in English outside Lumpini Park "All Shinawatras must go" followed by "All foreigners should go! Thailand is for Thais!"

Not even that will convince some of them of the xenophobic, uber nationalism of this 'movement'

<deleted> so one person hates forang. Heres al title surprise for you from someone here for 30 years a lot of thais dislike us and a lot hate us. In wales they used to burn english cottages because they hatted the English so much. A lot of Thais don't like forang irrespective of their political allegiance. In most of Europe lots of people say same about muslims. In 30 years I've made al to of great Thai friends both rich and really poor but all will tell you a lot of thais simply don't like even hate forang. Live with it it wont go away same as prejudice against blacks or jews or germans. Now don't get me started n germans and don't mention the war.

Dont be so pathetic and show your total ignorance

Finally you must be American and I wish americans would go and get lost and stop polluting the world with their BS so please if your american go home the world is for all not for Americans

not one of us