Anyone know where Georgie & Lou garment manufacturer is?

[Dean1953]

I just read an article in the New York Times about the Georgie & Lou garment makers in Chiang Mai. They supply clothes to the Smithonian. The article alleges that workers are docked 5% of their 300 baht daily wage for every mistake that they make. The article goes on to state that the U.S. Government does little to require conditions to be improved in sweatshops from which they buy clothes. Does anyone have any more info about G & L, like their location and other companies/governments that buy from them?

[koratjohn]

Not surprised by your comment. I had a neighbor who was abruptly let go by the same company a couple of months ago. Sad thing is he moved here from abroad to take the job and was in the position for only a few months when he was told his job was being made redundant/eliminated. Particularly sad because he came to fill a position formally held by his brother who was promoted to a higher position. Soon after his arrival his brother's position was eliminated and within 2 months his position was gone as well.

He also mentioned the Thai workers were being presented with new less favorable contracts with the option of accepting the less favorable contract or leaving.

Both moved back to their homeland as a result.

[Dean1953]

According to the article, most U.S.governmental officials aren't concerned about working condition, only the bottom line. Someone should drag the U.S.Consulate general to the factory, so at least he can't plead ignorance on the subject.

[cardinalblue]

He has a very successful business model with a piece meal pay system...it's called accountability and if you good at your job you make more money

His items are customized orders so mistakes he must eat and replace it with a new item from Thailand...can't just pull another off the store's shelf because it doesn't exist...

As to a sweatshop...far from it. His thousands of knitters work at home or location of choice..his central operations area is spacious well lit and has some of the latest equipment..and that is just my opinion as a EH@S professional...

As to the exploitation of uneduced worker, it isn't like don't have options...maybe they could work do work as a construction worker street sweeper or gardener out in the hot sun all day...crammed into the bed of a pickup truck to and fro from their displaced shantytown accommodations out of sight..this is where all these workers live who are employed by these moo baan developers springing up all over CM now..this method has been in place the last two decades..only the faces have changed...

Or those who don't know and it sounds like everyone in thread so far, the owner in question gave as of three years ago gave a certain % of total monthly sales to the Mae sot health clinic run by dr Cynthia who provide health services to the displaced Karen pop who live around this border town..how many bigger companies even compare to this charitable goodwill on his part?

Are well off people need to justify to the public what they do with their money..he is pumping his back into the local economy..are you not doing the same if you live here..he is just contributing much more than 98% of the ex-pat community...

So please before you criticize gather more facts before you crucify you obtain from from second or third hand sources..

[Dean1953]

Have you been to this factory? I guess that we are going to agree to disagree. To me, it is the management at the factory's responsibility to make sure their workers know how to perform tasks. If, after a couple of weeks of training, they still make costly mistakes, have them do something else or fire them, not deduct from their paycheck. Anyway, my post is more of an indictment of U.S.policy on overseas sweatshops/child labor. When it comes to the U.S. government's buying overseas, the cost is the primary concern. The U.S. Military is prohibited by law from buying uniforms outside of the U.S. Their solution is to buy their uniforms/chola he's from U.S. Prison labor, who are making $4.50 a day on average.

[seesip]

From the Georgie & Lou website it looks like they are "partnered" with Pure Handknit and Neon Buddha. Are all 3 owned by the same person?

[cardinalblue]

Dean ...you have to give the guy a fair shake...he got caught up when they introduced a minimum wage policy . Do you understand his product is not made at his factory just the dyeing,QC, finishing touches and distribution...so should the hill tribe worker be paid a full day's wage if she decides to produce one unit (one sweater) if she only spends three hours working on it and the rest of time takiking care of her kids, tending to farm animals or watching TV? I can't fault a pay hor what you produce system...

What is wrong with having a shared responsibility when errors or defects are made? Each product is being made for an individual paying customer by a certain date...when an error is made that product has to re-done or corrected which adds additional costs and time, service issues and an unhappy customer...what is wrong with an incentive system to eliminate errors? Is not the capitalistic system built on incentives? Cheating in school, Commit a crime, driving infractions, Don't pay your bills on time, commit a foul in sports and on and on..You suffer the consequences of carelessness or poor decision-making...some one pays for ones actions..don't we call it accountability?

As to firing the person...for wrong size bottoms or wrong cut? I would say that is pretty extreme. In my industry we don't fire doctors who leave a sponge in, wrong diagnosis, drug error or even

Incorrect ogam removal....

As to a sweatshop working conditions not even close..if you want occ hazards or ergonomic issues try the gem and nut factories in Phuket or locally thai gov hospitals or San Kampaeng road with all those textile and craft manufacturing plants...

[stephenjvf]

My name is Steve and I am the managing director of Georgie and Lou.

Like you, I was surprised to see the article in the New York Times. We are not sure who Poypiti Amatatham is and where he is getting his facts from? It is damaging for Smithsonian, ourselves and the country of Thailand to be put in the same category as Bangladesh's sweatshops. Thailand has an unemployment rate of 0.7% and comprehensive labour laws. Employees have many employment options and would not tolerate to have cameras in the bathrooms! While we understand that this type of sensational news sells newspaper, we are disappointed that the NY Times would publish such article without verifying their facts first. We have higher expectations from the NY times.

Like the camera in the bathroom story, I can also confirm that there are no deductions to sewers for defects. Regarding the accusation of physical abuse…. I can confirm that yes in the last year, there was one fracas between a junior supervisor and an employee. The company filed a police report and both individuals were suspended for three days. the company has zero tolerance for such behavior.

Georgie and Lou prides itself for the working environment and opportunities that it offers its staff. We believe that we can attract the best talent by offering a minimum salary that is higher than the legal requirement, free lunch (which in some case represents almost 10% of someone's take home pay), free extended education (the tuition fees for some of our staff is higher than their salary), paid (during working hours) language classes in English and Thai, company paid maternity leaves (we match government contributions), paid paternal leaves (no such concept in thai laws), In the event of an employee suffering family member bereavement we also provide a donation towards the costs. We provide help and assistance to employee’s children by providing them with our legacy laptop computers to assist in their school work. Also, as a local employer in the Sankamphaeng district we support the local community providing free clean drinking water to the local villagers, donations for improving the local villages infrastructure, providing street lighting, repairing roads, donation to schools, etc....

Many of our employees have been with us for over 10 years. We still work with the same cooperative leaders and 4500 knitters as we did 15 years ago. Thailand is not that different from other countries. In order for a business to be successful, one must attract the best talent. Our business is growing and we know that a business is first and foremost its employees. The only formula that we know in order to keep top talents for many years is by providing a great working environment, above market salaries, opportunity to earn more, opportunity to learn and develop and a sense of ownership and pride in one's work.

To answer the original question about our location… our address is:

121 Moo.3 Chaechang,

Sankampaeng, ChiangMai.,

Thailand.

Tel : +66 53 880 933

You can book an appointment and visit us.

And yes, please bring the US Consulate General for a visit. We would love to share our success story.

Happy Holidays

Steve

[Prasert Tangkae]

I know this company have visited 3 months ago - It is a good company with excellent conditions staff earn very good salaries

expats maybe listen to silly gossip

[curiousgeorge100]

I have known several people that have worked there over the years, and have visited the company on several occasions. They treat their employees better than almost any other company that I know in Thailand. They have very good working conditions including free lunch for all staff. I know the company use to contribute and extra 10% every month on top of their salary to fund that would be collected by the employee when they left the company as long as they gave proper notice. They provide free english language courses on site at the company and reimbursement for continuing education. I am sure there are other benefits that I am not aware. Regarding the 5% charge to the employee for mistakes, the company never received one baht from an employee for any mistakes made.

[Prasert Tangkae]

Yes you right about this is what i said they are good employer I know Steve he care for the people and work place every time

[Rimmer]

A couple of posts have been removed:

In using Thai Visa I agree:

6) Not to post comments that could be reasonably construed as defamation or libel.Defamation is the issuance of a false statement about another person, which causes that person to suffer harm. Libel involves the making of defamatory statements in a printed or fixed medium, such as a magazine or newspaper.

[CMfoodie]

Steve, I am equally surprised and shocked that The New York Times would publish such a defamatory paragraph regarding your company without proof.

Have you demanded a retraction and apology?

Did any fact checkers from the NYT contact management at your company before going to print?

While we understand that this type of sensational news sells newspaper, we are disappointed that the NY Times would publish such article without verifying their facts first. We have higher expectations from the NY times.

[cardinalblue]

Can anyone link the NY Times article or at least inform this thread of the date and section it was published in?

Thanks,

CB

[CMfoodie]

Here is the full story...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/23/world/americas/buying-overseas-clothing-us-flouts-its-own-advice.html

[scotinsiam]

Steve,

Thanks for clearing that up - I hope you get the NYT to retract their BS.

[Felipesed]

Steve, I am equally surprised and shocked that The New York Times would publish such a defamatory paragraph regarding your company without proof.

Have you demanded a retraction and apology?

Did any fact checkers from the NYT contact management at your company before going to print?

While we understand that this type of sensational news sells newspaper, we are disappointed that the NY Times would publish such article without verifying their facts first. We have higher expectations from the NY times.

Perhaps the NYT could send someone to talk to the Thai workforce, or perhaps a previous employee gave them the information.

It is obvious that the eulogies being delivered to this company are from people with no inside knowledge, except the defense being offered by the General Manager, which is to be expected.

[stephenjvf]

Steve, I am equally surprised and shocked that The New York Times would publish such a defamatory paragraph regarding your company without proof.

Have you demanded a retraction and apology?

Did any fact checkers from the NYT contact management at your company before going to print?

While we understand that this type of sensational news sells newspaper, we are disappointed that the NY Times would publish such article without verifying their facts first. We have higher expectations from the NY times.

Perhaps the NYT could send someone to talk to the Thai workforce, or perhaps a previous employee gave them the information.

It is obvious that the eulogies being delivered to this company are from people with no inside knowledge, except the defense being offered by the General Manager, which is to be expected.

Not true my comment is from my own visit with local Thai people have you been to factory have you visited ..try and go before you say story

[Dean1953]

I appreciate your response, Steve. I'm not in Thailand, as I brought my wife's 3 kids to the U.S. to finish their education. I hopefully will be there sometime in the next year and would like to see with my own eyes (although you have several supporters on Thaivisa). If I had written the article and posted those "facts," I would have given either the owner or manager a chance to respond. F you do get any response from the NYT, please post it here.

[Beetlejuice]

My name is Steve and I am the managing director of Georgie and Lou.

Like you, I was surprised to see the article in the New York Times. We are not sure who Poypiti Amatatham is and where he is getting his facts from? It is damaging for Smithsonian, ourselves and the country of Thailand to be put in the same category as Bangladesh's sweatshops. Thailand has an unemployment rate of 0.7% and comprehensive labour laws. Employees have many employment options and would not tolerate to have cameras in the bathrooms! While we understand that this type of sensational news sells newspaper, we are disappointed that the NY Times would publish such article without verifying their facts first. We have higher expectations from the NY times.

Like the camera in the bathroom story, I can also confirm that there are no deductions to sewers for defects. Regarding the accusation of physical abuse…. I can confirm that yes in the last year, there was one fracas between a junior supervisor and an employee. The company filed a police report and both individuals were suspended for three days. the company has zero tolerance for such behavior.

Georgie and Lou prides itself for the working environment and opportunities that it offers its staff. We believe that we can attract the best talent by offering a minimum salary that is higher than the legal requirement, free lunch (which in some case represents almost 10% of someone's take home pay), free extended education (the tuition fees for some of our staff is higher than their salary), paid (during working hours) language classes in English and Thai, company paid maternity leaves (we match government contributions), paid paternal leaves (no such concept in thai laws), In the event of an employee suffering family member bereavement we also provide a donation towards the costs. We provide help and assistance to employee’s children by providing them with our legacy laptop computers to assist in their school work. Also, as a local employer in the Sankamphaeng district we support the local community providing free clean drinking water to the local villagers, donations for improving the local villages infrastructure, providing street lighting, repairing roads, donation to schools, etc....

Many of our employees have been with us for over 10 years. We still work with the same cooperative leaders and 4500 knitters as we did 15 years ago. Thailand is not that different from other countries. In order for a business to be successful, one must attract the best talent. Our business is growing and we know that a business is first and foremost its employees. The only formula that we know in order to keep top talents for many years is by providing a great working environment, above market salaries, opportunity to earn more, opportunity to learn and develop and a sense of ownership and pride in one's work.

To answer the original question about our location… our address is:

121 Moo.3 Chaechang,

Sankampaeng, ChiangMai.,

Thailand.

Tel : +66 53 880 933

You can book an appointment and visit us.

And yes, please bring the US Consulate General for a visit. We would love to share our success story.

Happy Holidays

Steve

If you believe so confidently in the said company and have faith in it`s credibility as a company that promotes fair working practices and conditions, than why not include your full name with your defence and statement as a spokesman and representative for Georgie and Lou?

Or could it be you have concerns that if after investigations into the working conditions and employment policies of your company, do not ring true as quoted in your statement, than we only have a statement from someone called Steve who claims to be a managing director, an anonymous which could be considered as a without prejudice statement decreasing any legal repercussions back to the company if your statements prove to be misleading and untrue.

Does not appear that you have faith enough in what you say to support your comments with a full name This is a common practice and ploy used by many large companies where representatives of these companies have little faith in the management and policies of a company they represent, and in case of repercussions during a complaint are reluctant to support their defence with their actual names.

Also Mr Steve X, are you yourself actually based at the Chiang Mai address you have given in your post above? Is there any information about you and your profile with Georgie and Lou in the public domain online where it is possible to verify your credentials?

Edited December 29, 2013 by Beetlejuice

[Greenside]

If you believe so confidently in the said company and have faith in it`s credibility as a company that promotes fair working practices and conditions, than why not include your full name with your defence and statement as a spokesman and representative for Georgie and Lou?

Or could it be you have concerns that if after investigations into the working conditions and employment policies of your company, do not ring true as quoted in your statement, than we only have a statement from someone called Steve who claims to be a managing director, an anonymous which could be considered as a without prejudice statement decreasing any legal repercussions back to the company if your statements prove to be misleading and untrue.

Does not appear that you have faith enough in what you say to support your comments with a full name This is a common practice and ploy used by many large companies where representatives of these companies have little faith in the management and policies of a company they represent, and in case of repercussions during a complaint are reluctant to support their defence with their actual names.

Also Mr Steve X, are you yourself actually based at the Chiang Mai address you have given in your post above? Is there any information about you and your profile with Georgie and Lou in the public domain online where it is possible to verify your credentials?

Honestly, what a load of old rubbish! No large company issues statements with the only the first name of the writer to avoid legal repercussions - if they are going to go down that road they would call themselves "a spokesman" or something as vague, not identify themselves as a senior officer a fact that could easily be verified with a quick phone call to the number supplied. What comfort would a surname be when you're apparently decided that some kind of wrongdoing is afoot? As far as it goes, without some kind of third party enquiry the NYT report should be treated with extreme caution and if you are sufficiently concerned you should get out from behind the anonymity of your keyboard and take up Steve's offer to visit the place.

I've no connection with the company and, after owning a small manufacturing company for almost 30 years, no patience with those who always seem to want to believe the worst of employers. Staff are the key asset in any business and successful enterprises recognise it and treat them accordingly.

[Mapguy]

Hang on! Hang on!

Sometimes, the news media --- even the New York Times --- get it right. Sometimes they get it a little right. Sometimes they just get it a little wrong. Sometimes they just don't get it, especially where confirming sources are hard to get that rely cover the potential problem at issue. (Think worldwide coverage!) The New York Tmes is not some sort of media god, just MUCH better staffed and edited than most.

Instead of the idle speculation above, why --- to point to you, Bettlejuice --- why don't you go visit the guy, the place, or whatever instead of slandering the guy here?

Maybe there is a problem. I do not know. If you think there is a problem, then check it out. You have an invitation, at least. A very rare invitation, under the circumstances!

[stephenjvf]

My full name is steve falkiner you may call me on my work mobile which is +66 811121532 my contact details have already been provided

I am unsure why you feel my response was not genuine......happy new year to you

[TerryTL]

Holiday Greetings

First, I would like to thank the folks behind Thai Visa for providing a resource that I have used to make my life in Chiang Mai easier and more fulfilling. I have not felt the need to join and contribute, however, until I recently discovered this discussion about Georgie & Lou. I feel the need to join this conversation because of my firsthand knowledge of Georgie & Lou and my good friend Steve, the Managing Director of the company.

Second, I would also like to disclose the facts that I am a professional teacher with strong liberal beliefs about social equality stemming from a working class background similar to Steve’s own upbringing. After working in both manufacturing and retailing I am also a strong adherent of capitalism. These are a few of the commonalities that helped Steve and I to establish a friendship when we met at the party of a mutual friend a few years back.

Third, I have visited two of Georgie & Lou’s factories here in Chiang Mai. From the stated facts, you can correctly assume I have some biases, but please be assured that the information I share is factual, firsthand information. So Be It.

Most of the prior positive comments made in this forum about Georgie & Lou I can verify as true, so I will not comment further than this statement. However, I was saddened by the article in the New York Times, a publication I have highly respected for many decades, about Georgie and Lou. It appears to me that neither the newspaper, the writer of the article or the news researcher here in Thailand verified the statements made in the article. Not one of the negative facts stated were true.

In my many discussions with Steve during the time I have known him, I have been impressed with his concern for the employees of Georgie & Lou. He has often asked me for my professional advice to improve the education programs at the company. We have also discussed ways to help workers (from the many cultures, ethnic groups and foreign countries employed by Georgie & Lou) appreciate and honor the diversity of fellow employees. After visiting two of the factories, I was impressed by the clean, safe environment Georgie & Lou provides for workers. I also know that the company employs many handicapped people at a good wage, a rarity in many countries. The employees of Georgie and Lou earn wages that are substantially above the minimum wage as well as other benefits. These benefits extend to employee families who are helped with educational costs as well. The company’s educational programs take unskilled, uneducated laborers and train them into workers with marketable skills.

Georgie and Lou should never be compared to the sweatshops of Asia. The company and owner(s) believe in corporate social responsibility and contribute to the welfare of their workers and the communities in which the factories are located. Not mentioned are the innovations made by the company to protect the environment in which the plants are located. The factory takes agricultural wastes from the local rice farms and turns it into electricity. The residue from the process is used by local farmers as fertilizer. Excess energy is sold back to the power grid. Water used in the dying process leaves the plant as pure as it enters due to the water processing plant located in the factory.

Instead of being vilified, Georgie and Lou should be held as an example of how corporations can improve the lives of the people they employ and the standard of living in communities in which they are located. The New York Times should write about how capitalism can successfully distribute wealth, goods and services using Georgie & Lou as an example.

[BB1955]

• What ever the truth is Im sure they ll take a hit from this article true or not ... So sad to say the news media can print just about anything and get away unscathed ... Not taking sides either way because I don't know ... But I do know first hand news papers write stories to sell papers they will print what they think people will read ... Doesn't always mean its the truth ......

[Beetlejuice]

My full name is steve falkiner you may call me on my work mobile which is +66 811121532 my contact details have already been provided

I am unsure why you feel my response was not genuine......happy new year to you

Thank you for the info update.

Not so much as being unsure, but rather just trying to bring you people out into the open, which provides the statements with more credibility.

They say if there is smoke, than there is fire, but besides that, like some other posters I am not going to point an accusing finger at anyone. I believe it`s a good thing that Western owned companies with branches in Thailand are under scrutiny, as perhaps could be described as spied on by the evil eye. It keeps them on their toes and helps them maintain good working practices towards their employees, because bad publicity is of course, bad for business, which I quote from experience having worked as an international public relations manager for many years. Perhaps Georgie and Lou should hire the services of a good public relations officer to help promote the good name of the company and ward off any malicious attacks against them in the future.

Wishing the Georgie and Lou company a prosperous and trouble free New Year 2014.

[15Peter20]

I taught at this place some years ago. I wouldn't say it was particularly exploitative of workers from what I could tell. The buildings and infrastructure at that time were far from what might be called 'state of the art' though. None of the rooms used for teaching had air conditioning and the dining area was a very basic long concrete building with wire mesh for windows all down the sides which reminded me of prison conditions, although I've seen the same kind of buildings in poorer government schools. For Thai workers, this is probably easier on the eye than for us 'sensitive' western types. The main building where dying went on was a very large, old wooden structure (not sure but the roof may have been corrugated iron or wooden), but it always looked dark inside and I remember thinking it must get very hot in there. At no time did I enter that building though. The IT systems at that time were also very old.

Having said all that, the staff I interacted with seemed happy to be taking the classes and were a nice bunch. The management were trying to get in higher-qualified workers from countries like China and India to fill the more skilled positions. It is true about the eco-friendly energy policies, which they were visibly in the process of implementing at the time. I can't comment on the pay-related issues as I didn't ask about this.

I just hope they've spent a bit on doing up the buildings since I worked there.

[wigantojapan]

yip i would like to come out and have a look..i wont be in CM till the end of jan so will contact you then,PM me to give me some indication of the best time to visit cheers