Spanish schengen

[marksm]

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to everyone at Thai visa

Can some one possibly clear this up for me

Am due to travel to Spain for a family wedding on the 26th April returning on the 2nd June 2014

My wife is on FLR and her visa expire date is the 13th August 2014 .

On the Spanish website it says that the residency card must be valid at least 3 months after the exit from the Schengen Area

Has anyone applied been in this situation and been granted a visa or is this a straight refusal .?

Many thanks mark

[marksm]

26th of May I was due to fly

[7by7]

Under the EEA freedom of movement regulations, all your wife has to do is show that she is your wife (e.g. marriage certificate), you are an EEA national (e.g. your passport) and that she is travelling with or to join you (e.g. tickets).

If she can do this then strictly speaking she doesn't need to get a Schengen visa but can just turn up at the Spanish border and Spanish immigration must allow her entry. See "Arriving at the border without a visa" here.

However, as that page says, it is always better to obtain the relevant visa in advance. This will avoid complications and delays; not only at Spanish immigration but also, which is more likely, at check in with the airline who may be unaware of the rules and so not let her board without a visa.

Note also that under "Visa exemptions" on the page linked to above it says that family members of an EU national do not require a visa if

They have an EU family member’s residence card issued under EU rules by any EU country (except the country you are a national of), and they are travelling together with you or travelling to join you in another EU country. The residence card should clearly state that the holder is a family member of an EU national.
(My emphasis)

So, assuming that you are British, her FLR biometric residence card alone is not enough and she should obtain a visa.

Now, as you say, the Spanish embassy website does say that to apply for a visa her UK residency permit must be valid for at least three months after her intended exit from Spain.

Whilst I understand that they want to know she will be readmitted to the UK on her departure from Spain and so her UK LTR is still going to be valid when she does, I cannot see how they can insist that it be valid for at least three months afterward. My opinion, for what it's worth, is that it is certainly against the spirit of the free movement regulations, if not the letter, to do so.

Particularly as the only real need for seeing this is to show that she is a UK resident and so can apply in the UK!

As you still have 5 months before you fly, all I can suggest is that you have four options:-

• contact the Spanish embassy, politely remind them of the regulations and ask them if your wife's FLR is acceptable to them; or
• submit the application anyway and hope for the best; or
• submit, and pay for, a standard Schengen application; or
• contact Your Europe advice, an office of the EU Commission, for their help. As they say they will answer within 1 week; I'd go for this one; although obviously it's going to take a bit longer considering the holidays.

Please let us know how you get on.

[MaprangHolmes]

Sorry to jump on your post but it says one of the requirements is an Original and photocopy of the marriage certificate translated into Spanish or English. When applying for my wife's settlement visa we had our marriage certificate translated into English and the company just stamped the back of it saying which company had done it which was accepted with out any problems.

My question is can you use the same translated certificate for getting an EEA permit?

[7by7]

If you are asking about an EEA family permit for the UK, then yes.

If you are asking about a Schengen visa, afraid not. Schengen states want the translation authenticated by the Thai MFA; either in Bangkok or the Thai embassy in the country where you live.

For other EEA states, sorry, I don't know.

[Jay Sata]

Under the EEA freedom of movement regulations, all your wife has to do is show that she is your wife (e.g. marriage certificate), you are an EEA national (e.g. your passport) and that she is travelling with or to join you (e.g. tickets).

If she can do this then strictly speaking she doesn't need to get a Schengen visa but can just turn up at the Spanish border and Spanish immigration must allow her entry. See "Arriving at the border without a visa" here.

However, as that page says, it is always better to obtain the relevant visa in advance. This will avoid complications and delays; not only at Spanish immigration but also, which is more likely, at check in with the airline who may be unaware of the rules and so not let her board without a visa.

Note also that under "Visa exemptions" on the page linked to above it says that family members of an EU national do not require a visa if

They have an EU family member’s residence card issued under EU rules by any EU country (except the country you are a national of), and they are travelling together with you or travelling to join you in another EU country. The residence card should clearly state that the holder is a family member of an EU national.

(My emphasis)

So, assuming that you are British, her FLR biometric residence card alone is not enough and she should obtain a visa.

Now, as you say, the Spanish embassy website does say that to apply for a visa her UK residency permit must be valid for at least three months after her intended exit from Spain.

Whilst I understand that they want to know she will be readmitted to the UK on her departure from Spain and so her UK LTR is still going to be valid when she does, I cannot see how they can insist that it be valid for at least three months afterward. My opinion, for what it's worth, is that it is certainly against the spirit of the free movement regulations, if not the letter, to do so.

Particularly as the only real need for seeing this is to show that she is a UK resident and so can apply in the UK!

As you still have 5 months before you fly, all I can suggest is that you have four options:-

• contact the Spanish embassy, politely remind them of the regulations and ask them if your wife's FLR is acceptable to them; or
• submit the application anyway and hope for the best; or
• submit, and pay for, a standard Schengen application; or
• contact Your Europe advice, an office of the EU Commission, for their help. As they say they will answer within 1 week; I'd go for this one; although obviously it's going to take a bit longer considering the holidays.

Please let us know how you get on.

Well it would be nice if it all worked like that. I guess you've never crossed from Spain to Gibraltar.

Sadly every EU nation has a different slant on the rules and regulations.

I'm not going to get involved in a dispute on why everyone does not sing from the same song sheet but all I'll say to you 7by7 is you have never lived in Spain or tried to do business there. You've obviously never experienced Spanish bureaucracy. It's a nightmare.

Frankly I don't know why the UK has to apply EU rules so rigidly. It's illegal to buy an old fashioned light bulb in the UK now but they are still on sale as they can be used for 'industrial/heavy duty purposes'.

The EU is like a leaking bucket when it comes to others and their spouses coming here but we stick by the rules.

However not all Schengen states apply the rules the same way.

Schengen states want the translation authenticated by the Thai MFA; either in Bangkok or the Thai embassy in the country where you live.

If you live in the UK with your spouse it can be done in the UK. What's wrong with getting the translation done in London?

Edited December 26, 2013 by Jay Sata

[7by7]

As usual, you are taking a childish swipe at me rather than offering any useful advice.

If you disagree with the options I have given to the OP in response to his question; what other options do you suggest?

Schengen states want the translation authenticated by the Thai MFA; either in Bangkok or the Thai embassy in the country where you live.

If you live in the UK with your spouse it can be done in the UK. What's wrong with getting the translation done in London?

What is it about the phrase the Thai embassy in the country where you live that you don't understand?

Your obsession with me is becoming rather tiresome. More importantly it is causing you to post more and more rubbish in this forum which whilst it may somehow make you feel big, is of no help to those who come here for advice.

As I have said to you in another thread; please stop.

[marksm]

Hi

Thank you both for your advice I have emailed the European Commission and I'll wait on there reply .

Then I will email the Spanish embassy .

I am British the reason for me going I have family who have live in Spain for over 20 years that's my reason and I can back everything up from return flight ect hopefully they can see sense .i shall keep you posted has soon has I get and sort of reply.

[englishinsiam]

Spanish authorities most definitely are 20 years behind the Uk and I would recommend obtaining the visa they would not look at the uk visa if they see the Spanish Schengen visa.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[MaprangHolmes]

If you are asking about an EEA family permit for the UK, then yes.

If you are asking about a Schengen visa, afraid not. Schengen states want the translation authenticated by the Thai MFA; either in Bangkok or the Thai embassy in the country where you live.

For other EEA states, sorry, I don't know.

I am asking about an EEA family permit so that my wife can come to Spain with me, we had our marriage certificate translated in Bangkok when we applied for her settlement visa but all the translating company done was stamped the back of the translation which was OK for the British embassy I was hoping to use the same translated document when applying for a EEA permit.

Thank you

Edited December 29, 2013 by MaprangHolmes

[7by7]

An EEA family permit is the UK's way of dealing with the EEA freedom of movement regulations for the non EEA national family members of an EEA national.

Your wife needs to apply for a Schengen visa from the Spanish embassy in London or Spanish consulate in Edinburgh; depending on where in the UK you live.

Like the UK in Thailand, they use VFS to receive applications; see their website and that of the Spanish embassy for more.

As she is the spouse of an EEA national and will be travelling with you, her spouse, then most of the requirements wont apply and it will be free.

Although the UK only require translations be certified as correct by the bureau which did the translation, the Schengen states also require certification by the Thai Ministry of Foreign affairs.

This certification can be obtained from the RTE in London, but I'm not sure if the various consulates in other parts of the UK can also do so.

Edited December 29, 2013 by 7by7

[MaprangHolmes]

An EEA family permit is the UK's way of dealing with the EEA freedom of movement regulations for the non EEA national family members of an EEA national.

Your wife needs to apply for a Schengen visa from the Spanish embassy in London or Spanish consulate in Edinburgh; depending on where in the UK you live.

Like the UK in Thailand, they use VFS to receive applications; see their website and that of the Spanish embassy for more.

As she is the spouse of an EEA national and will be travelling with you, her spouse, then most of the requirements wont apply and it will be free.

Although the UK only require translations be certified as correct by the bureau which did the translation, the Schengen states also require certification by the Thai Ministry of Foreign affairs.

This certification can be obtained from the RTE in London, but I'm not sure if the various consulates in other parts of the UK can also do so.

Thank you for the reply, it is a bit annoying as on there web site it just says an: (It doesn't say that it needs to be certified)

• Original and photocopy of the marriage certificate translated into Spanish or English.

I find the information on there web site a bit confusing as at the begging it says:

Please note, that the UK Residence Permit must state literally that the holder is a family member of an EU/EEA National. If not, a visa is required under the following conditions:

Which gives the impression that all that is required is your partner to be named on your settlement visa.

[marksm]

Hi just a up date on my post I got In touch with the Europe Advice .

And this was there reply .I will post again once I've wrote to the Spanish Embassy

Please find below the reply to your enquiry. Please note that the advice given by Your Europe Advice is an independent advice and cannot be considered to be the opinion of the European Commission, of any other EU institution or its staff nor will this advice be binding upon the European Commission, any other EU or national institution.

Dear Madam,

Thank you for getting in touch with Your Europe Advice.

You indicate that you are a married to a UK citizen resident in the UK and you are a Thai citizen. You hold a UK residence permit, with leave to remain on the basis that you are married to a UK citizen (which was granted to you under UK law). This permit expires in the middle of August of 2014, and you are concerned by the fact that by the time you intend to travel to Spain for a wedding, the Spanish authorities will not allow you to process the visa, given that there will be less than 3 months left before the expiry of your UK visa.

Your query is ruled by Regulation 810/2009.

Please note the New Visa Code is made EXPRESSLY SUBJECT to the rights to be derived from European Free Movement law, which you benefit from under Directive 2004/38 (given that you are married to a UK citizen). The source of this right is Article 2 Directive 2004/38.

Your attention is drawn to the obligation contained under Article 5 paragraph 2, which provides:

Member States shall grant such persons every facility to obtain the necessary visas.

This notion must be interpreted as ensuring that Member States take all appropriate measures to ensure fulfilment of the obligations arising out of the right of free movement and afford to such visa applicants the best conditions to obtain the entry visa.

Accordingly, the Spanish authorities must process your application for a Schengen visa. Requiring you to wait until after your leave to remain has been processed by the UK authorities, or to require you to travel all the way back to Thailand in order to process the same visa would be incompatible with the obligation contained under the duty to facilitate the issue of the visa contained under article 5 paragraph 2 Directive 2004/38.

As an illustration of the same principle, the UK authorities readily accept that an EEA family permit can be applied from any place in the world.

[EEA family permits may be obtained from any visa issuing post. It is not necessary for an applicant to be lawfully or normally resident in the country to apply.] http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/policyandlaw/guidance/ecg/eun/eun2/#header2

The factors elicited above gather further support from the Visa Code Handbook, which provides that where the following 3 questions are answered in the affirmative, the applicant is entitled to apply for a Schengen visa by reference to the rights derived from Directive 2004/38:

Question no 1: Is there an EU citizen from whom the visa applicant can derive any

rights?

In your case the answer is positive given that your spouse is a UK citizen who is intent on traveling with you to Spain.

Question no 2: Does the visa applicant fall under the definition of family member ?

Again, the answer is positive, given what is stated above (ie that you are married).

Question no 3: Does the visa applicant accompany or join the EU citizen?

Again, the answer to this question is positive, given that you are planning to travel together.

Entry visas for the family members of an EU citizen must be issued under an accelerated process and free of charge by the competent consular visa Section where the following documentation is produced:

Your Thai passport

Proof of the family link (marriage certificate)

Proof that your spouse is a UK citizen (UK passport)

and

That you and your spouse are planning to travel to another Member State of the EU (for example: travel booking).

You may also find a Spanish lawyer following this link:

http://www.ccbe.eu/index.php?id=140&L=0

I trust the above will serve to answer the query you had, thank you for contacting Your Europe Advice and look forward to hearing from you in due course.

Yours truly.

Your Europe Advice

Thank you for consulting Your Europe Advice. Your opinion is important to us. Please click http://www.ghkint.com/surveys/yea/ to participate in a short users satisfaction survey in order to help us evaluate this service.

[marksm]

Hi just a update on my issue with the Spanish embassy

Dear Madam:

Even though the requirements say that three months are compulsory on your Residency Permit, only in cases such as yours (spouses of an EU citizen) we still process and issue the Visa (assuming that the rest of your documentation is according to requirements.

However on our experience we have noticed that some airline companies refuse boarding, even with the Schengen Visa stamped on a passport. Please check with your airline in order to avoid disappointments.

Sincerely

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app