burmese diamonds

[Showbags]

Any diamond experts about ?

How to tell if a diamond is real or not ?

I always thought cutting glass and hitting with a hammer would suffice ?

Found a really nice one, used it to cut glass and break off a clean cut, then hit it with a hammer with 1 vaht coin on top, put dent in the coin.

Any other ways to tell for certain ?

[seajae]

analysys is the best bet but you need a good lab to do it, man made diamonds can be 9 on the mohs scale just under diamonds and you cannot tell by looking at them, even through an eye piece. A lot of dealers have been fooled by them but they can be found out in a lab, your methods are very questionable and fately flawed, even a diamond can shatter.

Edited December 24, 2013 by seajae

[tim armstrong]

Most gem dealers I know rely on technology these days as while possible, its very difficult to tell if diamonds and most other precious gems are real, with the naked eye. It's easier to tell if semi - precious gems are fake or not because often the colours are wrong, but even then you have to be experienced. Diamonds, sapphires, rubies, emeralds (precious gems) are all becoming quite rare in their natural state, and they can often be artificially produced. Sometimes their origin gives the game away. eg, if someone offers you Burmese emeralds - they are probably fake as Myanmar has rubies and garnets but no emeralds anymore. India has emeralds. Some traders will also prey on the gullible - I was in the gem market area of Maesot a while ago and was offered a 'rare chance'to buy a large off -white piece of precious jade. I looked at it and asked the dealer why they were selling milky quartz as 'jade'. The item was quickly put away and I was then shown some authentic stones. Another rip off is to passing off zircons as diamonds. I used to be able to pick them, but not anymore, as the faceting process is now very skilled.

I'm not an expert but I've dabbled in gems and geology since I was young, so have some knowledge. But if you are going to buy any precious gem - go to a large reputable dealer who someone can vouch for, and who is prepared to authenticate their product. But buyer beware as the gem trade is a minefield. Its probably still true that - the the more you pay, the better the product.

[Showbags]

Thanks.

but what would this stone have been if it cut glass like it did ?

I know nothing of gems, so forgive ignorance....

I would also like to know how to tell jade when real....I read about the coolness of it against your lips, or heating it up etc...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/691919-jade/

[tim armstrong]

Thanks.

but what would this stone have been if it cut glass like it did ?

I know nothing of gems, so forgive ignorance....

I would also like to know how to tell jade when real....I read about the coolness of it against your lips, or heating it up etc...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/691919-jade/

Hi Showbags, just saw this post. I replied about jade on your newer post. But about the hardness issue - quartz is 6.5 on Moh's scale, which is about the same as glass, so anything above that will cut glass. That includes all precious gems and their variations - which are many and do come in a range of colours. That's not to say its not a diamond - I'd take it to a dealer, but make sure they look at it in front of you - If its a large stone - don't let them keep it for examination unless you take photos as it may be valuable. Even some quartz varieties with harder impurities will cut glass but these will have some colour.

It's a fascinating subject and i would love to explore some sites in Thailand. But I haven't tried much as I doubt whether the locals would welcome too many farlang possibly finding something valuable. However, in the less touristy national parks Like Mae Wong, and near Kanchanaburi it may be possible.

Kanchanaburi was once a centre for good stones, but now they sell 'stalagmites and stalactites' to gullible tourists. ( It's the fragile hanging stuff you find in the rooves and floors of caves). I stopped at a place on the road to Erewan waterfall to admire these specimens recently. Very interesting I thought, until I wandered around their shed and saw some large limestone boulders that they were carefully pouring acid over to make the 'appearance' of stalactites. A clever and devious idea, but disappointing. So many fakes !! If you get interested, there are several inexpensive field guides to gems with photos, at the Kinokuniya English bookshop in Sukhumvit. See their website. Buy yourself a New Years present.

[rak sa_ngop]

First of all Burma is famed for rubies, and many other gemstones, but not diamonds. However a quick google search has come up with this interesting sentence from a published paper.

'Alluvial diamonds with no obvious sources ("headless placers") are found in several areas of Australasia, including Myanmar, southern Thailand (Phuket), Sumatra, Kalimantan and eastern Australia'

Secondly you i.e. OP are not clear as to what you expected when hitting your diamond with a hammer. Although diamonds are very, very hard they are not very tough. Low toughness means that they can chip and shatter when hit with a hammer. This is why oil exploration diamond drilling bits wear out when drilling through hard rock formations. So if your diamond chipped when hit with a hammer it might mean it is still a real diamond (although now much less valuable than before you hit it)

Thirdly diamond and cubic zirconia (fake diamond) are very similar in may respects but differ greatly in their thermal conductivity. Diamond is a superb thermal conductor whereas cubic zirconia, quartz, glass etc are not. Diamond testers rely on this property to differentiate between the two.

One test you can do yourself is to buy a cubic zirconia cut stone of the similar size as your stone (easy to buy in Bangkok for less than 100 baht). Hold the stone between your fingers and breathe your damp breath onto the stone and count how long it takes for the condensation on the stone to evaporate.Then try with your diamond. The condensation on a real diamond will evaporate much more quickly because the heat from your fingers will be conducted through the stone more quickly and burn off the condensation in a much shorter time.

Failing that just go into a real Gem or Jewellery shop and ask them to test it with their diamond tester. Shouldn't cost much in Thailand.

[asdecas]

1. Buy a diamond.

2. Give it to your girl.

3. Be prepared to run.

4. You know it's fake.

[waynflete]

If you have been offered a diamond in Burma as "Burmese', then you are being taken for a ride. Gem quality diamonds are not mined in Burma and virtually all diamonds sold there come from Indian and Thai dealers. 95% are cut in India.

If you are in Yangon, there are 3 labs in Bogyoke Market 1st floor, AGGL, Stalwart and Macle. All of them should be able to tell you if the diamond is real or not. If you are in Bangkok, go to GIA in U Chu Liang, Tokyo Gem Lab in Rama Jewelry Building

or AIGS in the Jewellery Trade Centre

[ezzra]

Rule of thumb when buying precious stones from unknown sources, no bargains out there, if it's

too good to be true, it's probably is, and lastly, don't buy diamonds or gem stones if you are not

sure what you're buying, stick to what you know, there are lots of charlatans out there that will

be only too happy to separate you from your money..

[wombat]

how to know if its real......

take it to a pawn shop

[jaiyen]

I go to Maesot regularly and there are a lot of Indians hanging around on the streets. Not sure if they are buying or selling. But if you cant prove very quickly that you are an expert in gemstones you are going to get done BIG TIME ! There are more cowboys than Indians in that town ! take notice of the previous posts. I only buy what I know.

[maderaroja]

My rule of thumb is: If you cannot tell whether it is real by looking at it, you should buy galss beads.

[pizzachang]

Diamonds are actually very plentiful. The amount of gem-quality diamonds that reach the markets is strictly controlled. Other precious gems such as rubies and emeralds, are definitely getting harder to find, especially in larger carats. By the way, this is just what I've recently read.

[bangkapi]

Two words: Cubic Zirconia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubic_zirconia

[ozyjon]

Interesting to hear this question...

Some years ago i had the same question rolling around in my mind but to get the answer i did a short gemology course

that really opened my mind to the whole business,,, so what have i learn't..

*Don't get into it, don't touch it outside your own country

*Looking for a bargain, you won't ever find it

*Compare the gemstones business to the drug business (outside your country)

*If you need to ask then you have done your cash in right there

The diamond market is strictly controlled therefore you would be a sucker in that game, if you want to play the game move to New York, remember that building of 9/11 that somehow fell down, the first third of the lower building ? guess what business they did there? GUESS ? diamonds do you know of De Beers,, look it up.

Oh also look at the picture, the pen will tell you if a diamond is real or not BUT even now they are producing fake diamonds, not zirconia, but diamond manufactured in a kiln that go for the real thing but the manufacturers must print their mane on every diamond that can only be seen with a microscope...

After all that,, good luck.

Oh by the way,, i have bought diamonds in the past from a company in Holland, but they give you a certificate with the diamond as original, i have shown it to a dealer and was told the diamond and certificate was original,, what certificate will the sellers give you in Thailand i wonder ?

Have a look at the photos for your reference.

[macca3248]

If you are in Chiang Mai,message me,I have a tester that is also used to test for moisonite(synthetic Diamonds ect.

[riceyummm]

First of all Burma is famed for rubies, and many other gemstones, but not diamonds. However a quick google search has come up with this interesting sentence from a published paper.

'Alluvial diamonds with no obvious sources ("headless placers") are found in several areas of Australasia, including Myanmar, southern Thailand (Phuket), Sumatra, Kalimantan and eastern Australia'

Secondly you i.e. OP are not clear as to what you expected when hitting your diamond with a hammer. Although diamonds are very, very hard they are not very tough. Low toughness means that they can chip and shatter when hit with a hammer. This is why oil exploration diamond drilling bits wear out when drilling through hard rock formations. So if your diamond chipped when hit with a hammer it might mean it is still a real diamond (although now much less valuable than before you hit it)

Thirdly diamond and cubic zirconia (fake diamond) are very similar in may respects but differ greatly in their thermal conductivity. Diamond is a superb thermal conductor whereas cubic zirconia, quartz, glass etc are not. Diamond testers rely on this property to differentiate between the two.

One test you can do yourself is to buy a cubic zirconia cut stone of the similar size as your stone (easy to buy in Bangkok for less than 100 baht). Hold the stone between your fingers and breathe your damp breath onto the stone and count how long it takes for the condensation on the stone to evaporate.Then try with your diamond. The condensation on a real diamond will evaporate much more quickly because the heat from your fingers will be conducted through the stone more quickly and burn off the condensation in a much shorter time.

Failing that just go into a real Gem or Jewellery shop and ask them to test it with their diamond tester. Shouldn't cost much in Thailand.

All good information. I base that assessment on 32 years in the jewelry trade and an advanced gemology certificate.

I've never heard of the breath test for CZ but it makes good sense. I used a thermal conductivity tester for that purpose.

Weight is another way to tell. CZ will weigh 1.7 times as much as a same sized diamond.

Direction of faceting lines (and there are almost always faceting lines if observed properly) is another way to tell. The lines on adjacent facets on a CZ will go in the same general direction while on a diamond go in every which direction. This is because the hardness of diamond varies in relation to the direction of the abrasion and that depends on the angle of the facet to the crystal structure of the diamond. Diamonds can be cut by cleaving or lasering but can only be polished with diamond powder.

There are other ways to distinguish them but that's enough for now.

[riceyummm]

One more thing.....Don't ever hit ANY gemstone with a hammer!

[QualityTouristNumberOne]

May not come across as very helpful,but its true...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rohin-dhar/diamonds-are-bullshit_b_3708562.html

Edited December 26, 2013 by QualityTouristNumberOne

[rak sa_ngop]

Not sure if it is explained clearly in the above posts but diamond is different to other gemstones in as much as it is not sold with an origin. i.e. an African diamond of the same quality will sell at the same price as a Canadian, or Russian or any other country diamond. And I believe that once a diamond is cut it is difficult if not impossible to tell its country of origin.

Most other gemstones have an origin which determines their price e.g a Burmese ruby will sell for a higher price than an African ruby of similar quality. And a good lab will be able to distinguish the origin of the two stones based on microscope study of internal inclusions and other tests.

So I am wondering if such a thing as an certified Burmese cut diamond exists?

And if Burmese rough diamonds are placer deposits is there any other way to distinguish the rough stones from placer deposits from other countries?

Just wondering as I am no real diamond expert, but interested in gemology as a whole.

[Showbags]

If you are in Chiang Mai,message me,I have a tester that is also used to test for moisonite(synthetic Diamonds ect.

unfortunately just left cm...but thanks anyway.

rest easy people, did not buy the bargain burmese diamond.....now for rubies day after tomorrow...

missus would not believe me when I said it fake, said no matter, looks real.

[rak sa_ngop]

If you are buying rubies you had better start doing some research first. Lot of cheap treated African rubies on the market. African rubies are even sold in Myanmar which is the source of the world's best quality rubies.

[Showbags]

If you are buying rubies you had better start doing some research first. Lot of cheap treated African rubies on the market. African rubies are even sold in Myanmar which is the source of the world's best quality rubies.

african.....more exotic right? From the dark coninent