How Happy Will Foreign Teachers Be In 2014?

[sirchai]

Hello and Sawasdee khrap,

I know that there's a lot of information on the net, but I'd kindly like to ask some serious questions.

I went to see some friends in a neighboring province last weekend and I've heard that many who're working as teachers right now seem to have huge problems next year in May to stay employed.

Some are on their second "provisional" teacher's license, or "waiver." The latest I've heard from the TCT was that they only issue two of them, then teachers have to come up with a degree in education.

Are there any teachers out there on their third provisional TL? Wouldn't let's say nine years of teaching qualify to get another provisional license?

So, people who taught Thai English teachers in seminars how to teach English in a most effective way, held seminars for Thai directors aren't qualified anymore, because of a new rule/law?

Okay, I know for a fact, if the director of a school has got a friend at the TCT, it's possible to get another waiver. ( Our director's got a mate in a high position there)

What are all those guys doing next year who're already on their second now and have to apply for a new provisional TL, without having a degree in education?

I'd assume that many foreigners won't be qualified anymore, so will they just be replaced by Filipinos, or other degree holders from Asia?

I'd deeply appreciate if you'd come up with your experience regarding teaching English in LOS in the future. Thanks in advance for any useful input.-

[sirchai]

Wish All a Happy New Year 2014.-

[lostinsurin]

Rumors, I have friends in the Education office and they have said nothing. These rumors seem to start in Buriram for some reason.

How would Thailand suddenly manage with no native English teachers?

[Frito]

Where I teach, only a bachelor's degree is required. It doesn't have to be in education. I think this is true nation wide now, however on any given day, depending on where you are and who the official is that you deal with (and your attitude), the rules can change. I've learned this from personal experience.

[Shancloudy]

Yes this is true.

[zeichen]

"Where I teach, only a bachelor's degree is required. It doesn't have to be in education.”

This is only true in Universities. Any primary, middle or high school, you need a teaher's license. There are several ways to get one. You are on a temporary teacher's license which needs to be renewed. You used to need the Thai culture course after your first year, and then after your 3rd year, you need to either get a license or take the test. I have a friend who has renewed his license 3 times. He only sat for one test which was enough to show professional development. At our school we had mandatory training seminars each year which went in our file for extensions.

"I think this is true nation wide now, however on any given day, depending on where you are and who the official is that you deal with (and your attitude), the rules can change. I've learned this from personal experience."

This isn't true either. There are clear defined rules and procedures. There is a way around them for some but doesn't mean that there are different rules or that they change.

[NoshowJones]

This is exactly what happened to me, after the two years waiver, I still did not have a degree, so I was repaced by a Philipino teacher at much less wages than me.

Sorry, I have to do this again, I clicked the wrong button. Here we go. This is exactly what happened to me, after the two years waiver, I still did not have a degree, so I was replaced by a Philipino teacher at much less wages than me.

I was then offered another job in the same Province. I accepted, then was taken to the Labour department for my work permit. It was granted, then I was asked by the school to pay for it, it was 3000 Baht. I refused to pay on principle, as the normal procedure is for the school to pay.

If I had paid as requested, I would have been on the third waiver.

[NoshowJones]

Where I teach, only a bachelor's degree is required. It doesn't have to be in education. I think this is true nation wide now, however on any given day, depending on where you are and who the official is that you deal with (and your attitude), the rules can change. I've learned this from personal experience.

Up in the sticks, you do not need a batchelors degree, no one with a BD is going to work for 30.000 Baht per month. You do need though, a TEFL certificate. They can get Philipino teachers for less than 20.000 Baht per month, and believe me, they are as good as native English speakers. To my knowledge, I was the only Western teacher in the vicinity.

[NoshowJones]

"Where I teach, only a bachelor's degree is required. It doesn't have to be in education.”

This is only true in Universities. Any primary, middle or high school, you need a teaher's license. There are several ways to get one. You are on a temporary teacher's license which needs to be renewed. You used to need the Thai culture course after your first year, and then after your 3rd year, you need to either get a license or take the test. I have a friend who has renewed his license 3 times. He only sat for one test which was enough to show professional development. At our school we had mandatory training seminars each year which went in our file for extensions.

"I think this is true nation wide now, however on any given day, depending on where you are and who the official is that you deal with (and your attitude), the rules can change. I've learned this from personal experience."

This isn't true either. There are clear defined rules and procedures. There is a way around them for some but doesn't mean that there are different rules or that they change.

Yes I missed that out. You do need to do the Thai Culture Course, but that is done in a weekend. and cost 5000 Baht. Well it did when I did it.

[Fookhaht]

This is exactly what happened to me, after the two years waiver, I still did not have a degree, so I was repaced by a Philipino teacher at much less wages than me.

Your post inadvertently gives the real underlying reason for why the FILIPINO probably REPLACED you. Such is the market place--with jobs going to the most-qualified. A positive point is that the Filipino is probably making double the wage of back home in his homeland. Good for him. Suggest if you really like teaching, train for it. Like he did.

[AWOL Geordie]

It's true there's a maximum of two temporary teaching licenses issued. Each one lasts two years giving you up to four years to get qualified.

An up to date summary of everything required to work legally in Thailand is covered here:

Edit by SlyAnimal - Removed link as per forum rules.

[culicine]

Where I teach, only a bachelor's degree is required. It doesn't have to be in education. I think this is true nation wide now, however on any given day, depending on where you are and who the official is that you deal with (and your attitude), the rules can change. I've learned this from personal experience.

Up in the sticks, you do not need a batchelors degree, no one with a BD is going to work for 30.000 Baht per month. You do need though, a TEFL certificate. They can get Philipino teachers for less than 20.000 Baht per month, and believe me, they are as good as native English speakers. To my knowledge, I was the only Western teacher in the vicinity.

Philipinos are OK for lower grades, but beg to differ for upper mathyom. We have one teaching english to out M5-M6. My 10 year old p4 son can do half of her exam. She is teaching to HER level and not up to the level of the students, which should be focussing on IELTS / TOEFL / SAT exams, etc.. The students don't mind as they are getting an easy ride and easy GPA. Yet they complain no end about the maths teacher from Canada who works their asses off. Go figure...

If you hadn't noticed, 30K is the standard salary for a bachelor degree, and hasn't changed much in the last 10-15 years.

Apart from the licencing rules, experienced native speakers are a rarity now, as the salaries are still low but living costs have risen dramatically. It's just not worth their while anymore to come here. Most native speakers come through agencies these days, have little experience, and are gone within 6 months to a year.

[NoshowJones]

Where I teach, only a bachelor's degree is required. It doesn't have to be in education. I think this is true nation wide now, however on any given day, depending on where you are and who the official is that you deal with (and your attitude), the rules can change. I've learned this from personal experience.

Up in the sticks, you do not need a batchelors degree, no one with a BD is going to work for 30.000 Baht per month. You do need though, a TEFL certificate. They can get Philipino teachers for less than 20.000 Baht per month, and believe me, they are as good as native English speakers. To my knowledge, I was the only Western teacher in the vicinity.

Philipinos are OK for lower grades, but beg to differ for upper mathyom. We have one teaching english to out M5-M6. My 10 year old p4 son can do half of her exam. She is teaching to HER level and not up to the level of the students, which should be focussing on IELTS / TOEFL / SAT exams, etc.. The students don't mind as they are getting an easy ride and easy GPA. Yet they complain no end about the maths teacher from Canada who works their asses off. Go figure...

If you hadn't noticed, 30K is the standard salary for a bachelor degree, and hasn't changed much in the last 10-15 years.

Apart from the licencing rules, experienced native speakers are a rarity now, as the salaries are still low but living costs have risen dramatically. It's just not worth their while anymore to come here. Most native speakers come through agencies these days, have little experience, and are gone within 6 months to a year.

Very good post, but do you really believe anyone with a batchelors degree is working here in Thailand for 30.000K per month. Are there any TV members with a batchelors degree working for 30.000K per month? Or even know of anyone who is?

[AWOL Geordie]

I've a BSc(Hons), MSc and PGCE and I just turned down offers of 25k (<deleted>?) and 40k to teach maths and physics in Chiang Mai. I could clean toilets in Europe for more than that. 25k is an absolute piss take - it really is.

[bundoi]

I haven't got any up-to-date info relevant to the OP's question (seems like I share that deficiency with many of the contributors), but as the thread is morphing towards income (again ;-) ) a few thoughts...

I know of several experienced younger teachers who are working for less than 30k (some have been doing it for 10 yrs plus, so pls interpret "younger" liberally) with comparatively wealthy families back home they don't need the money; they like the lifestyle, and who can blame them. I also know of several older (post-50) teachers who don't need the money; they do it for fun and to stop getting too bored in retirement.

I do find the discussions about making pots of money teaching in Thailand a bit weird. No doubt some of the more expensive international schools here can afford to pay comparativey high wages, and I know that some of the other international organisations here also offer wages comparable to home country levels.

But teaching is not a very high-income job in any country, rightly or wrongly; if you want or need a lot of money you should be a corporate lawyer, stockbroker, fund-manager etc etc

Back closer to the thread, I think there will be a shakeup next year and an even bigger one in 2015; I don't think the high end international schools will be affected much.

Worth noting that the TEFL industry here has already been negatively affected by the change in rules here of 2 years ago re degrees.

[NoshowJones]

This is exactly what happened to me, after the two years waiver, I still did not have a degree, so I was repaced by a Philipino teacher at much less wages than me.

Your post inadvertently gives the real underlying reason for why the FILIPINO probably REPLACED you. Such is the market place--with jobs going to the most-qualified. A positive point is that the Filipino is probably making double the wage of back home in his homeland. Good for him. Suggest if you really like teaching, train for it. Like he did.

I agree with what you say, but it has to be said that because someone has a degree, it does not necessary make them a better teacher. I have seen teachers without a degree who are better than teachers with one.

[hellodolly]

I've a BSc(Hons), MSc and PGCE and I just turned down offers of 25k (<deleted>?) and 40k to teach maths and physics in Chiang Mai. I could clean toilets in Europe for more than that. 25k is an absolute piss take - it really is.

You should have taken some thing in logic. to expect Eurapian wages in Chiang Mai I think not. I have heard that chi9ang Mai is not exactly the highest paying community.

to the OP there are many teachers in Thailand who have dealt with this successfully. May be not the way they would like to but ha this is Thailand and they do have different ways. Learn to adjust to them and you will get along better.

You asked

"I'd deeply appreciate if you'd come up with your experience regarding teaching English in LOS in the future. Thanks in advance for any useful input.-"

Sorry have no experience in the future. Suggest you learn to handle the English language a little better before trying to teach it. They have lot's of Thai's teaching English with that bad of an understanding of it.

Personally have no experience nor do I want it but I have a lot of friends who do it for a living. None of them seem to last past four years at it.

Edited December 27, 2013 by hellodolly

[sirchai]

This is exactly what happened to me, after the two years waiver, I still did not have a degree, so I was repaced by a Philipino teacher at much less wages than me.

Sorry to hear that,as I know the quality of many with a degree, without the ability to speak English properly.

.I do have a degree, but not in education. Seems that I'll enroll at a local university on weekends to go for a Masters now, which will take two to three years.

Good luck and a Happy New Year!-

[NoshowJones]

This is exactly what happened to me, after the two years waiver, I still did not have a degree, so I was repaced by a Philipino teacher at much less wages than me.

Sorry to hear that,as I know the quality of many with a degree, without the ability to speak English properly.

.I do have a degree, but not in education. Seems that I'll enroll at a local university on weekends to go for a Masters now, which will take two to three years.

Good luck and a Happy New Year!-

Same to you Sirchai.

[Mudcrab]

Rumors, I have friends in the Education office and they have said nothing. These rumors seem to start in Buriram for some reason.

How would Thailand suddenly manage with no native English teachers?

Based on the level of literacy I have encountered - it wouldn't make any difference if there are native English teachers or not.

[sirchai]

I've a BSc(Hons), MSc and PGCE and I just turned down offers of 25k (<deleted>?) and 40k to teach maths and physics in Chiang Mai. I could clean toilets in Europe for more than that. 25k is an absolute piss take - it really is.

You should have taken some thing in logic. to expect Eurapian wages in Chiang Mai I think not. I have heard that chi9ang Mai is not exactly the highest paying community.

to the OP there are many teachers in Thailand who have dealt with this successfully. May be not the way they would like to but ha this is Thailand and they do have different ways. Learn to adjust to them and you will get along better.

You asked

"I'd deeply appreciate if you'd come up with your experience regarding teaching English in LOS in the future. Thanks in advance for any useful input.-"

Sorry have no experience in the future. Suggest you learn to handle the English language a little better before trying to teach it. They have lot's of Thai's teaching English with that bad of an understanding of it.

Personally have no experience nor do I want it but I have a lot of friends who do it for a living. None of them seem to last past four years at it.

I'm neither criticizing your mistakes, nor will I tell you how to spell a continent properly.

Actually I did realize that I wrote something wrong, but you can't edit and change a thread, once it's posted.

Was meant for people who've got an idea how the circumstances for foreign teachers in Thailand could/will be next year. It's not in my intention to split hairs here.

So why don't you just mind your own business? -

.

Edited December 27, 2013 by sirchai

[aidenai]

I've a BSc(Hons), MSc and PGCE and I just turned down offers of 25k (<deleted>?) and 40k to teach maths and physics in Chiang Mai. I could clean toilets in Europe for more than that. 25k is an absolute piss take - it really is.

You should have taken some thing in logic. to expect Eurapian wages in Chiang Mai I think not. I have heard that chi9ang Mai is not exactly the highest paying community.

to the OP there are many teachers in Thailand who have dealt with this successfully. May be not the way they would like to but ha this is Thailand and they do have different ways. Learn to adjust to them and you will get along better.

You asked

"I'd deeply appreciate if you'd come up with your experience regarding teaching English in LOS in the future. Thanks in advance for any useful input.-"

Sorry have no experience in the future. Suggest you learn to handle the English language a little better before trying to teach it. They have lot's of Thai's teaching English with that bad of an understanding of it.

Personally have no experience nor do I want it but I have a lot of friends who do it for a living. None of them seem to last past four years at it.

You're right.

[SlyAnimal]

I think that the OP's original question is an interesting one, and one which I'm interested in hearing more about. His question, and I'll explain a little about it for new teachers who aren't familiar with the regulations, was this:

In Thailand, if you want to teach at a government school, you need a temporary teaching licence to do so. This was previously granted without any problems, however the TCT (who issues the licences) decided to raise the bar a little in regards to what is required. They decided that all teachers should have a bachelor degree, at which point they would be granted a temporary teaching licence while they study for their full teacher's licence (Which is obtained after passing 4x exams + taking a Thai Culture course).

Most teachers didn't bother to do the exams, or tried a couple of times and then gave up on them, as the English was barely decipherable and the questions extremely subjective, with English study material being very difficult to find in comparison to it's Thai equivalent.

The TCT allowed teachers to receive upto 2x temporary teacher's licences, and then (it's rumoured) would stop issuing temporary teaching licences. Previously changing schools meant you could start the process all over again, but from what I gather, this may no longer be the case.

As a result, there are some teachers who, next year, are going to be denied a second temporary teaching licence by the TCT, this will mean that they can't obtain a work permit or B visa by legitimate means. The OP therefore asked, what will these teachers do?

(That's a very long way of summing up what is otherwise a simple question, but I think it explains the OP's question a little better). Also in the OP's original post, I assume instead of Degree in Education, he meant a Thai teacher's licence. As although a degree in education + culture course qualifies teachers for a Thai teacher's licence, there are other ways of obtaining a Thai teacher's licence.

[Shancloudy]

Yes, its true that TCT allowed teachers to get temporary license up to 2x only. I went to Khurusapa last December 3 and they told me I need to get a 5 years license because I couldn't get a temporary license anymore.

[SOTIRIOS]

...they can just hire 'teachers' with fake diplomas from a neighboring country.....and send the whole learning process back 50 years.....

...they will save some money at the expense of the students' educations....

...then the phonies...... who have their nation behind them endorsing those fake diplomas ........will put the squeeze on......

[Shancloudy]

Actually those teachers who has a fake diploma couldn't get a 5 years license because the Khurusapa will check the school it takes 2 to 3 months before they will issue the license and the Ministry of Labor also check the documents before they will approve the WP.

[Shancloudy]

...they can just hire 'teachers' with fake diplomas from a neighboring country.....and send the whole learning process back 50 years.....

...they will save some money at the expense of the students' educations....

...then the phonies...... who have their nation behind them endorsing those fake diplomas ........will put the squeeze on......

The topic is about the license. Sounds like you're very insecure to that neighboring country to tell that their diplomas are fake.

[Shancloudy]

Additional message to Sotirios: If you think that their diplomas are fake why don't you ask them to show it to you and bring you to their University and if you think they're not qualified why don't you tell them to do the teaching demonstration in front of you.

Edited December 27, 2013 by Shancloudy

[jerry1989]

I didnt know of the 2x Provisional License Rule until I was denied on my third attempt. I got a Non B visa and work permit and the last thing needed was my license to extend for another 90 days. I took the Thai culture but until now no certificate which is supposed to be done within 3 months. I ended up with my own license while waiting for my 5 years license.

[magicwheel]

Is it possible to teach, if you have teaching experience but no degree?