Thai minister lashes out at Democrats, election opponents

[soi41]

.. All of this makes the PTP look stronger and more democratic by comparison. They have kept largely quiet and subdued to let the points rack up. Inquiring minds wonder why Suthep did all this when the real benefit goes to PTP.

OMG!! You have just opened another:

Interesting conspiracy theory! Suthep is paid by Thaksin!!

[SamMunich]

Lovetotravel wrote:

Exactly. After 180 days it can be passed with NO debate and NO vote. The bill was never killed, just not passed into law. Again, an easy way to diffuse the situation - 100% kill the amnesty bill. Easy to do, but the government won't do this.

______________________________________________________________________________________

How is this in Thailand? In other countries, if a bill has not been passed, the new parliament must start the process all over again.

[Yunla]

.. All of this makes the PTP look stronger and more democratic by comparison. They have kept largely quiet and subdued to let the points rack up. Inquiring minds wonder why Suthep did all this when the real benefit goes to PTP.

OMG!! You have just opened another:can-of-worms.jpg

Interesting conspiracy theory! Suthep is paid by Thaksin!!

I'm open to the possibilities that many people at the 'top' of politics globally are following the same script to the letter, and we're just watching the show. Its not really conspiracy-theory, its just basic logic. The top politicians generally want money and power, above anything, and its a lot easier to run a successful business if you have internal cohesion, however scrappy it appears on the outside.

Punch and Judy shows, they don't really hate each other but they beat the hell out of eachother all day long, while people pay to see it.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Yunla

[SamMunich]

Fab4 wrote:

OK So say they kill the amnesty bill stone dead, never to be resurrected, what then?

Suthep has still whipped up the preah vihear whinging/anti corruption/anti democracy/anti thaksin/UDD/yingluck/PTP crowd into a hatefest.

And you reckon suthep will be satisfied with that? He doesn't care about amnesty, he has bigger plans ahead though just what they are, nobody knows.

_____________________________________________________

You don't wanna believe this, but w/o the amnesty bill and the infrastructure multi-gazillion Baht thing, Suthep would have propably been left standing alone. Or with a lot less people around.

Fact is, many here don't want Taksin to come back (and even his own party folks don't want him back, as they would have to split the loot with him) and many more are sick and tired of the corruption (and it's many kinds) are getting more and more out of hand...

[mca]

For the good of the country two things need to happen. The 'caretaker' government need to implement some reforms and then the Dems need to contest the elections on Feb 2. It's a tall order but if our parliamentarians on all sides really love Thailand they should be prepared to do it or else get off the pot.

Actually only one thing needs to happen 'Ban all political parties for the next 2 years as a cooling off period' this can only be achieved by one method, i think u all know what i mean.

A game of Twister between Suthep and Chalerm?

[FangFerang]

They should make Abhisit and Yingluck marry each other, and their offspring, an orange shirt, could be appointed to lead the interim council. Further, chain their ankles together so they actually have to listen to each other, all day every day

Now that's justice served and reconciliation in a nice package. Neither side is listening to the other, and that is a tragedy. As TS Eliot said, "Before he can become better, the patient must get much worse (sic)."

[ginjag]

They should make Abhisit and Yingluck marry each other, and their offspring, an orange shirt, could be appointed to lead the interim council. Further, chain their ankles together so they actually have to listen to each other, all day every day

Now that's justice served and reconciliation in a nice package. Neither side is listening to the other, and that is a tragedy. As TS Eliot said, "Before he can become better, the patient must get much worse (sic)."

Chains, haha that is the only way she will face Abhisit, the truth is she has avoided any 1 to 1 with anyone. Apart the young whistle blower, only because she had heavies along side.

[ramrod711]

Exactly. After 180 days it can be passed with NO debate and NO vote. The bill was never killed, just not passed into law. Again, an easy way to diffuse the situation - 100% kill the amnesty bill. Easy to do, but the government won't do this.

OK So say they kill the amnesty bill stone dead, never to be resurrected, what then?

suthep has still whipped up the preah vihear whinging/anti corruption/anti democracy/anti thaksin/UDD/yingluck/PTP crowd into a hatefest.

And you reckon suthep will be satisfied with that? He doesn't care about amnesty, he has bigger plans ahead though just what they are, nobody knows.

Conclusion, you were/are being very naive if you think that killing off the amnesty bill would have avoided the troubles that are occurring now.

Furthermore how can the amnesty 'easily' be killed? I had assumed it was dead after dissolution of parliament, but if not then it's impossible to 'kill' by any govt mechanism (unless lovetotravel knows something i don't).

If it's not dead now, it could be resurrected at any point. But I doubt it would be, even if PT won the next election and were allowed to govern. Look how easily PT withdrew amnesty bill.

But, But, But....Yingluck promised never to bring it back, I hope you're not suggesting that she lied.

[rebelplatoon]

Again and again. All those who do not understand why the Democrats are against election right now here it is again. Get with it and find out what's going on!

Some people don't seem to understand why the Democrats and yellow shirts do NOT WANT elections right now. It is NOT because Suthep wants to control anything else but the WAY elections are being held. During the Mr. "T" regime the constituencies have been altered to fit the TRT party. Very large constituencies with large numbers of voters would give one party only one seat (These they changed and were Democratic strongholds) much smaller constituencies, with much fewer people were divided up in several constituencies with one seat each. This means that even when people did not vote a 100% for the TRT they would still have a "glorious victory" over the Democrats. It was all made to match the TRT.

In numbers: The TRT and Dems had respectively: 15,744,190 and 11,433,762 people vote for them. A difference in % of the population of resp. (TRT, Dems) 48.41% and 35.15%. (say 13%) This was NOT reflected in the seats in Parliament by the self dividing rule of the TRT who changed the constituencies. (TRT/ Dems) 265 seats against 159 seats or in seats 106 (!!). If this had been in the range of anything like 225 to 196 this would have been a fair and acceptable result. (the difference being about 13%) or in seats 29. Read that again: The difference in what would have been an acceptable and fair divide in seats was 29 but it became 106 !!! This would have allowed (just an example) the Democrats to team up with some other parties and still form a Government. Besides in the opposition it would have given them lots more control.

Then due to certain constituents differences it could have been anything in the range of 210 to 235 for the TRT and 190 to 220 for the Dems and it would be acceptable, justifiable and explainable.

NOW do we understand why this system is unacceptable and nothing near free and fair elections?

Mind you, I do not agree with an interim Government and all that, unless it would be an agreed upon (by both parties) Business Government to boost the country back on the map first. But that would demand restraint, patience and understanding. Values that are the foundation of Buddhism, but are hard to be found in politricks. This country should be rejoicing and happy with all it's got. Work together as one. We all know who started the divide. And yes, It is being picked up, I don't agree with that but Thailand needs to "clean house"first.

[Thailand]

Again and again. All those who do not understand why the Democrats are against election right now here it is again. Get with it and find out what's going on!

Some people don't seem to understand why the Democrats and yellow shirts do NOT WANT elections right now. It is NOT because Suthep wants to control anything else but the WAY elections are being held. During the Mr. "T" regime the constituencies have been altered to fit the TRT party. Very large constituencies with large numbers of voters would give one party only one seat (These they changed and were Democratic strongholds) much smaller constituencies, with much fewer people were divided up in several constituencies with one seat each. This means that even when people did not vote a 100% for the TRT they would still have a "glorious victory" over the Democrats. It was all made to match the TRT.

In numbers: The TRT and Dems had respectively: 15,744,190 and 11,433,762 people vote for them. A difference in % of the population of resp. (TRT, Dems) 48.41% and 35.15%. (say 13%) This was NOT reflected in the seats in Parliament by the self dividing rule of the TRT who changed the constituencies. (TRT/ Dems) 265 seats against 159 seats or in seats 106 (!!). If this had been in the range of anything like 225 to 196 this would have been a fair and acceptable result. (the difference being about 13%) or in seats 29. Read that again: The difference in what would have been an acceptable and fair divide in seats was 29 but it became 106 !!! This would have allowed (just an example) the Democrats to team up with some other parties and still form a Government. Besides in the opposition it would have given them lots more control.

Then due to certain constituents differences it could have been anything in the range of 210 to 235 for the TRT and 190 to 220 for the Dems and it would be acceptable, justifiable and explainable.

NOW do we understand why this system is unacceptable and nothing near free and fair elections?

Mind you, I do not agree with an interim Government and all that, unless it would be an agreed upon (by both parties) Business Government to boost the country back on the map first. But that would demand restraint, patience and understanding. Values that are the foundation of Buddhism, but are hard to be found in politricks. This country should be rejoicing and happy with all it's got. Work together as one. We all know who started the divide. And yes, It is being picked up, I don't agree with that but Thailand needs to "clean house"first.

Very simply they could not win now and are unlikely to win in the foreseeable future.

And will never win if they don't actually compete.

[ballpoint]

For the good of the country two things need to happen. The 'caretaker' government need to implement some reforms and then the Dems need to contest the elections on Feb 2. It's a tall order but if our parliamentarians on all sides really love Thailand they should be prepared to do it or else get off the pot.

Actually only one thing needs to happen 'Ban all political parties for the next 2 years as a cooling off period' this can only be achieved by one method, i think u all know what i mean.

A game of Twister between Suthep and Chalerm?

Now we're back to the can of worms.

[Baerboxer]

This minister, accused the Democrats of lying ??? and he is in the PM office what a joke, Glasshouses come to mind and said " they should stop breaking the law for the sake of the country" Who the heck is he to say that when directly from his office the sake of the country has rarely been given a thought.

Even when people act (wrongly) better these ministers shut up. Every one of them that makes statements does not believe they are doing wrong in their capacity---never.

As has been mentioned a thousand times (or more), this could have all been avoided if they hadn't lied and tried to ram that amnesty bill through. Easy.

It should have been all over when the Senate blocked the passing of the Amnesty Bill, and the dems sponsored rally supporters should have all gone home.

Easy.

Instead it was whipped up into a amnesty blocking/preah vihear whinging/anti corruption/anti democracy/anti thaksin/UDD/yingluck/PTP hatefest by suthep and his well heeled backers.

Unfortunately, as you well know, the Senate block is only a delay. Thaksin's proxies were instructed to cling to power so they could hopefully quietly push it through after the 180 day period. I'm sure they hoped to get the senate election change through too, had they not been caught cheating parliamentary procedure. The 2.2 trillion was being pushed through so they can get their hands on the money, but also seems stuck.

The protesters didn't go home because they know that anything this administration says is not believable.

[mikemac]

It should have been all over when the Senate blocked the passing of the Amnesty Bill, and the dems sponsored rally supporters should have all gone home.

Easy.

Instead it was whipped up into a amnesty blocking/preah vihear whinging/anti corruption/anti democracy/anti thaksin/UDD/yingluck/PTP hatefest by suthep and his well heeled backers.

What's not to hate about these corrupt scumbags ?

........................and the dems sponsored rally supporters should have all gone home..........................................

Bold statement, after what happened in 2010 in Bangkok concerning Thaksin's "sponsored rally supporters".

So bold in fact one could even mistake it for trolling.

[rubl]

Exactly. After 180 days it can be passed with NO debate and NO vote. The bill was never killed, just not passed into law. Again, an easy way to diffuse the situation - 100% kill the amnesty bill. Easy to do, but the government won't do this.

OK So say they kill the amnesty bill stone dead, never to be resurrected, what then?

suthep has still whipped up the preah vihear whinging/anti corruption/anti democracy/anti thaksin/UDD/yingluck/PTP crowd into a hatefest.

And you reckon suthep will be satisfied with that? He doesn't care about amnesty, he has bigger plans ahead though just what they are, nobody knows.

Conclusion, you were/are being very naive if you think that killing off the amnesty bill would have avoided the troubles that are occurring now.

Furthermore how can the amnesty 'easily' be killed? I had assumed it was dead after dissolution of parliament, but if not then it's impossible to 'kill' by any govt mechanism (unless lovetotravel knows something i don't).

If it's not dead now, it could be resurrected at any point. But I doubt it would be, even if PT won the next election and were allowed to govern. Look how easily PT withdrew amnesty bill.

Look how easely Pheu Thai withdrew the 'other' six amnesty bills. An Empty gesture really.

[whybother]

Again and again. All those who do not understand why the Democrats are against election right now here it is again. Get with it and find out what's going on!

Some people don't seem to understand why the Democrats and yellow shirts do NOT WANT elections right now. It is NOT because Suthep wants to control anything else but the WAY elections are being held. During the Mr. "T" regime the constituencies have been altered to fit the TRT party. Very large constituencies with large numbers of voters would give one party only one seat (These they changed and were Democratic strongholds) much smaller constituencies, with much fewer people were divided up in several constituencies with one seat each. This means that even when people did not vote a 100% for the TRT they would still have a "glorious victory" over the Democrats. It was all made to match the TRT.

In numbers: The TRT and Dems had respectively: 15,744,190 and 11,433,762 people vote for them. A difference in % of the population of resp. (TRT, Dems) 48.41% and 35.15%. (say 13%) This was NOT reflected in the seats in Parliament by the self dividing rule of the TRT who changed the constituencies. (TRT/ Dems) 265 seats against 159 seats or in seats 106 (!!). If this had been in the range of anything like 225 to 196 this would have been a fair and acceptable result. (the difference being about 13%) or in seats 29. Read that again: The difference in what would have been an acceptable and fair divide in seats was 29 but it became 106 !!! This would have allowed (just an example) the Democrats to team up with some other parties and still form a Government. Besides in the opposition it would have given them lots more control.

Then due to certain constituents differences it could have been anything in the range of 210 to 235 for the TRT and 190 to 220 for the Dems and it would be acceptable, justifiable and explainable.

NOW do we understand why this system is unacceptable and nothing near free and fair elections?

Mind you, I do not agree with an interim Government and all that, unless it would be an agreed upon (by both parties) Business Government to boost the country back on the map first. But that would demand restraint, patience and understanding. Values that are the foundation of Buddhism, but are hard to be found in politricks. This country should be rejoicing and happy with all it's got. Work together as one. We all know who started the divide. And yes, It is being picked up, I don't agree with that but Thailand needs to "clean house"first.

According to this (http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2011/05/30/thailands-electoral-rules/), each constituency is about 170,000 people.

The reason that PTP got a larger percentage of seats than the percentage of votes is because a candidate only needs the most votes to win the seat. They don't need a majority (ie > 50%) of the votes. With so many candidates in each seat, a candidate could win with just 10% of the vote.

Also, the 15 million and 11 million votes mentioned above are party list votes. Constituency votes 12.2 million (44.3%) to 8.9 million (32.3%) leading to 204 (54%) constituency seats to 115 (30%) constituency seats. PTP got more seats per vote.

One reason why Thailand will become a two party system is because there is little to no value in voting for smaller parties. The Democrats may have had better chance in the next election because there would be a lot of people that wouldn't want to vote for PTP, but even though they didn't vote for the Democrats, it still gives the Democrats more chance to get more votes than PTP. For example, PTP drop from 35% to 30%. Democrats stay at 31% and win.

I like the Australian system where they have preferential voting, meaning every vote counts. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_system_of_Australia#Preferential_voting)

[AllanB]

I don't understand people who complain about corrupt politicians, they are politicians for goodness sake, add to that the fact that they are Thai politicians, <deleted> do you expect?

Taksin made the mistake of opposing the drug trade, a major part of income for the big knobs, who are either politicians or fund them.

Grow up lads....this a big knob power struggle. Let them get on with it at least the working class earn a few hundred baht out of it.

[Yunla]

Politicians call a strike.

No-one notices.

~~~*^*'*''*

[ginjag]

I don't understand people who complain about corrupt politicians, they are politicians for goodness sake, add to that the fact that they are Thai politicians, <deleted> do you expect?

Taksin made the mistake of opposing the drug trade, a major part of income for the big knobs, who are either politicians or fund them.

Grow up lads....this a big knob power struggle. Let them get on with it at least the working class earn a few hundred baht out of it.

Sounds fine for the future of Thailand. Get a few baht lads and be happy.

[lostinsurin]

This minister, accused the Democrats of lying ??? and he is in the PM office what a joke, Glasshouses come to mind and said " they should stop breaking the law for the sake of the country" Who the heck is he to say that when directly from his office the sake of the country has rarely been given a thought.

Even when people act (wrongly) better these ministers shut up. Every one of them that makes statements does not believe they are doing wrong in their capacity---never.

As has been mentioned a thousand times (or more), this could have all been avoided if they hadn't lied and tried to ram that amnesty bill through. Easy.

It should have been all over when the Senate blocked the passing of the Amnesty Bill, and the dems sponsored rally supporters should have all gone home.

Easy.

Instead it was whipped up into a amnesty blocking/preah vihear whinging/anti corruption/anti democracy/anti thaksin/UDD/yingluck/PTP hatefest by suthep and his well heeled backers.

And we should just have accepted their word for not bringing the bill back in 180 days??fingers-crossed.jpg

regards bringing back the bill.

Well if they did then that would be the time to protest, not because you think they may!!!

But yellow shirt farangs don't see this, eye trouble, maybe.

[rubl]

It should have been all over when the Senate blocked the passing of the Amnesty Bill, and the dems sponsored rally supporters should have all gone home.

Easy.

Instead it was whipped up into a amnesty blocking/preah vihear whinging/anti corruption/anti democracy/anti thaksin/UDD/yingluck/PTP hatefest by suthep and his well heeled backers.

And we should just have accepted their word for not bringing the bill back in 180 days??fingers-crossed.jpg

regards bringing back the bill.

Well if they did then that would be the time to protest, not because you think they may!!!

But yellow shirt farangs don't see this, eye trouble, maybe.

When it became known that the Pheu Thai led commision which had to review the 'amnesty bill' after the first reading had changed it into a 'blanket amnesty bill', protests started. The government pushed through the bill with two readings and two votes in slightly more than 24 hours. Around that time the PM ensured us that there was still a lot of procedure to follow, so please go home and wait. If the protests had stopped the Senate could have rightly concluded 'no one protests, so OK'.

So, say again, when is the time to protest?

Edited December 30, 2013 by rubl

[lahgon29]

To be fair the lies, innuendo, half truths and spin are not reserved solely for Thai elections, some of the rhetoric and drivel spouted during the recent Australian election puts anything said in Thailand in the shade. Some of the comments made by senior members, of what is now the new government, were strictly shameful and unworthy of what we consider to be a 1st class democracy.

What stands Thailand apart is the unsavory (choosing my words carefully here) side of the political system, what other developing country in the world would allow the governing party to be remotely controlled from abroad? I have no idea how this present situation can be resolved, the ruling party seems content to play the numbers game, no matter what the cost to the economy. The opposition seems driven by ego with no indication that is can "guide" the country into a new and modern era should it miraculously win power.

Democracy itself needs to be nurtured and developed, it is not a naturally recurring entity. If the conditions for this to happen are not currently present then a caretaker solution may be required, abhorrent though it may be a government with uniforms may not be a bad thing.

Obviously you are a disgruntled Labor or Greens voter from Australia. Your mob lost the election because they were a chaotic, untrustworthy, shambolic, left wing union friendly, unpopular, childish, excuse for a government, and were rightly punished. Most of the drivel I heard seems to have been from that [previous] Government [including Greens]. Get over it...

How you can compare the situation in Australia to here is beyond me, and I suspect many others.

Actually, I agree with your comments about politics here..

Maybe you should have stuck to just those.

[Ulic]

Does it really matter what he says. either there will be an election on there will not be one, we will find out soon.

[rametindallas]

Exactly. After 180 days it can be passed with NO debate and NO vote. The bill was never killed, just not passed into law. Again, an easy way to diffuse the situation - 100% kill the amnesty bill. Easy to do, but the government won't do this.

OK So say they kill the amnesty bill stone dead, never to be resurrected, what then?

suthep has still whipped up the preah vihear whinging/anti corruption/anti democracy/anti thaksin/UDD/yingluck/PTP crowd into a hatefest.

And you reckon suthep will be satisfied with that? He doesn't care about amnesty, he has bigger plans ahead though just what they are, nobody knows.

Conclusion, you were/are being very naive if you think that killing off the amnesty bill would have avoided the troubles that are occurring now.

Furthermore how can the amnesty 'easily' be killed? I had assumed it was dead after dissolution of parliament, but if not then it's impossible to 'kill' by any govt mechanism (unless lovetotravel knows something i don't).

If it's not dead now, it could be resurrected at any point. But I doubt it would be, even if PT won the next election and were allowed to govern. Look how easily PT withdrew amnesty bill.

I, also, thought all bills that hadn't made the journey all the way to become law had died with the dissolution of Parliament (how can a new government be burdened with unfinished business of the previous government?). If the amnesty bill is not now dead, then at the end of 180 days after the bill was returned from the Senate, and without any further debate, the bill can be passed with 50% +1 in the Lower House. How long would that take with a new Thaksin government? A half hour? They could plan to do the voting at 2 a.m. and no one would be able to raise a protest fast enough to stop it. At that point, no protest could stop the return of Dr. Thaksin, his return to the Premiership, and the return of his frozen billions. If a new Thaksin government is installed, the amnesty bill is a dead certainty to pass. The Thaksin part of the amnesty bill is not the part that disturbs me as much as the part where ALL the corruption since 2006 is forgiven, including the Rice Scheme, Flood Scheme, et. al.; More than 2,500 cases now under investigation, will be dropped forever. Reminds me of the coup plotters of 2006 giving themselves amnesty. Amazing Thailand!

If the amnesty bill is not dead, I can see why protesters are still in the streets. If the amnesty bill IS dead, they need stop the disruption of society and quietly go to the polls.

[tingtongteesood]

suthep has still whipped up the preah vihear whinging/anti corruption/anti democracy/anti thaksin/UDD/yingluck/PTP crowd into a hatefest.

And you reckon suthep will be satisfied with that? He doesn't care about amnesty, he has bigger plans ahead though just what they are, nobody knows.

Conclusion, you were/are being very naive if you think that killing off the amnesty bill would have avoided the troubles that are occurring now.

OK So say they kill the amnesty bill stone dead, never to be resurrected, what then?

Everybody who has been paying attention knows. His goal is the removal of the Thaksin clan from the country, or at least from politics. If they leave the country alone then it might stand a chance at a bright future. Then Thaksin the fugitive puppet master makes his sister and cousin number 1 and 2 on the party list and his sister's nephew will run too as the sister, her husband and their daughter have all already been banned for fraud. The Shin clan and assorted cronies are a cancer that needs to be cut out very quickly with a very sharp scalpal.

[rubl]

Exactly. After 180 days it can be passed with NO debate and NO vote. The bill was never killed, just not passed into law. Again, an easy way to diffuse the situation - 100% kill the amnesty bill. Easy to do, but the government won't do this.

OK So say they kill the amnesty bill stone dead, never to be resurrected, what then?

suthep has still whipped up the preah vihear whinging/anti corruption/anti democracy/anti thaksin/UDD/yingluck/PTP crowd into a hatefest.

And you reckon suthep will be satisfied with that? He doesn't care about amnesty, he has bigger plans ahead though just what they are, nobody knows.

Conclusion, you were/are being very naive if you think that killing off the amnesty bill would have avoided the troubles that are occurring now.

Furthermore how can the amnesty 'easily' be killed? I had assumed it was dead after dissolution of parliament, but if not then it's impossible to 'kill' by any govt mechanism (unless lovetotravel knows something i don't).

If it's not dead now, it could be resurrected at any point. But I doubt it would be, even if PT won the next election and were allowed to govern. Look how easily PT withdrew amnesty bill.

I, also, thought all bills that hadn't made the journey all the way to become law had died with the dissolution of Parliament (how can a new government be burdened with unfinished business of the previous government?). If the amnesty bill is not now dead, then at the end of 180 days after the bill was returned from the Senate, and without any further debate, the bill can be passed with 50% +1 in the Lower House. How long would that take with a new Thaksin government? A half hour? They could plan to do the voting at 2 a.m. and no one would be able to raise a protest fast enough to stop it. At that point, no protest could stop the return of Dr. Thaksin, his return to the Premiership, and the return of his frozen billions. If a new Thaksin government is installed, the amnesty bill is a dead certainty to pass. The Thaksin part of the amnesty bill is not the part that disturbs me as much as the part where ALL the corruption since 2006 is forgiven, including the Rice Scheme, Flood Scheme, et. al.; More than 2,500 cases now under investigation, will be dropped forever. Reminds me of the coup plotters of 2006 giving themselves amnesty. Amazing Thailand!

If the amnesty bill is not dead, I can see why protesters are still in the streets. If the amnesty bill IS dead, they need stop the disruption of society and quietly go to the polls.

The 'blanket amnesty bill' covered the period (some day in ) 2004 to 2013-08-08

[tingtongteesood]

Exactly. After 180 days it can be passed with NO debate and NO vote. The bill was never killed, just not passed into law. Again, an easy way to diffuse the situation - 100% kill the amnesty bill. Easy to do, but the government won't do this.

OK So say they kill the amnesty bill stone dead, never to be resurrected, what then?

suthep has still whipped up the preah vihear whinging/anti corruption/anti democracy/anti thaksin/UDD/yingluck/PTP crowd into a hatefest.

And you reckon suthep will be satisfied with that? He doesn't care about amnesty, he has bigger plans ahead though just what they are, nobody knows.

Conclusion, you were/are being very naive if you think that killing off the amnesty bill would have avoided the troubles that are occurring now.

Furthermore how can the amnesty 'easily' be killed? I had assumed it was dead after dissolution of parliament, but if not then it's impossible to 'kill' by any govt mechanism (unless lovetotravel knows something i don't).

If it's not dead now, it could be resurrected at any point. But I doubt it would be, even if PT won the next election and were allowed to govern. Look how easily PT withdrew amnesty bill.

I, also, thought all bills that hadn't made the journey all the way to become law had died with the dissolution of Parliament (how can a new government be burdened with unfinished business of the previous government?). If the amnesty bill is not now dead, then at the end of 180 days after the bill was returned from the Senate, and without any further debate, the bill can be passed with 50% +1 in the Lower House. How long would that take with a new Thaksin government? A half hour? They could plan to do the voting at 2 a.m. and no one would be able to raise a protest fast enough to stop it. At that point, no protest could stop the return of Dr. Thaksin, his return to the Premiership, and the return of his frozen billions. If a new Thaksin government is installed, the amnesty bill is a dead certainty to pass. The Thaksin part of the amnesty bill is not the part that disturbs me as much as the part where ALL the corruption since 2006 is forgiven, including the Rice Scheme, Flood Scheme, et. al.; More than 2,500 cases now under investigation, will be dropped forever. Reminds me of the coup plotters of 2006 giving themselves amnesty. Amazing Thailand!

If the amnesty bill is not dead, I can see why protesters are still in the streets. If the amnesty bill IS dead, they need stop the disruption of society and quietly go to the polls.

If only everyone was as level headed and understood as clearly as you do. This is precisely it. So Suthep has 2 choices, get the Shins out or don't let them get elected back in till 180 days have passed. So he wants reforms first that will last till at least after April and the Shin's want back in before the bill can lapse so they can't be stopped and Thaksin has told them to do whatever they have to to make that happen. If the protestors are still hanging on at 170 days and PT are still out, I won't say what I want to as I don't want to be sued for libel or be shot down for rhetoric, but it will end badly in that situation in my opinion. I can't understand how anyone can say that the stupid amnesty is a good thing for anyone apart from criminals and they don't deserve anything good...

[Yunla]

When it became known that the Pheu Thai led commision which had to review the 'amnesty bill' after the first reading had changed it into a 'blanket amnesty bill', protests started. The government pushed through the bill with two readings and two votes in slightly more than 24 hours. Around that time the PM ensured us that there was still a lot of procedure to follow, so please go home and wait. If the protests had stopped the Senate could have rightly concluded 'no one protests, so OK'.

So, say again, when is the time to protest?

The protests continued a while past the first really big 300,000~ people mass rally, and it became clear to Yingluck that she had to give ground. She offered to speak to Suthep. That was his chance to meet with her and insist on immediate and permanent cancellation of the Amnesty Bill. He refused her offered dialogue and his rhetoric got more personal and hateful including saying her whole family should be banished from the lands. This is unacceptable behaviour by Suthep.

Yingluck and PTP are totally in the wrong, their actions for the last few years are criminal and despicable. But ultimately she knows where the money is, and I feel she would negotiate with Suthep just to preserve her place at the trough, if Suthep would drop the really insane stuff he's been spouting recently and agree to debate the issues again. From my perspective both sides are bloody stupid, flat out, but Suthep is edging ahead in that particular race right now.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Yunla

[lovetotravel]

It should have been all over when the Senate blocked the passing of the Amnesty Bill, and the dems sponsored rally supporters should have all gone home.

Easy.

Instead it was whipped up into a amnesty blocking/preah vihear whinging/anti corruption/anti democracy/anti thaksin/UDD/yingluck/PTP hatefest by suthep and his well heeled backers.

And we should just have accepted their word for not bringing the bill back in 180 days??fingers-crossed.jpg

regards bringing back the bill.

Well if they did then that would be the time to protest, not because you think they may!!!

But yellow shirt farangs don't see this, eye trouble, maybe.

When it became known that the Pheu Thai led commision which had to review the 'amnesty bill' after the first reading had changed it into a 'blanket amnesty bill', protests started. The government pushed through the bill with two readings and two votes in slightly more than 24 hours. Around that time the PM ensured us that there was still a lot of procedure to follow, so please go home and wait. If the protests had stopped the Senate could have rightly concluded 'no one protests, so OK'.

So, say again, when is the time to protest?

The amnesty bill is not dead.

It can be passed after 180 days with no vote. Thus the protests. Anybody who has information to the contrary, please share a link. Please!!!!

Otherwise, hopefully, you'll understand why Thai citizens are protesting. At least one of the reasons. The others are corruption, lack of respect for the courts, cronyism, nepotism, lies, etc, etc, etc.

[Halion]

What a self righteous pontificating <deleted>. People in glass houses just should'nt

[whybother]

The protests continued a while past the first really big 300,000~ people mass rally, and it became clear to Yingluck that she had to give ground. She offered to speak to Suthep. That was his chance to meet with her and insist on immediate and permanent cancellation of the Amnesty Bill. He refused her offered dialogue and his rhetoric got more personal and hateful including saying her whole family should be banished from the lands. This is unacceptable behaviour by Suthep.

Yingluck and PTP are totally in the wrong, their actions for the last few years are criminal and despicable. But ultimately she knows where the money is, and I feel she would negotiate with Suthep just to preserve her place at the trough, if Suthep would drop the really insane stuff he's been spouting recently and agree to debate the issues again. From my perspective both sides are bloody stupid, flat out, but Suthep is edging ahead in that particular race right now.

She said she couldn't cancel the bill because it had gone to the senate, but she cancelled all the other amnesty bills that weren't going anywhere anyway. Once the main amnesty bill came back from the senate as rejected, there is nothing she could do about it for 180 days. It can't go to the lower house to be killed.

Besides that, what was Yingluck going to offer that Suthep could have accepted? Yingluck wants a whitewashed Thaksin home. Suthep wants them all out of politics. How can either of them compromise?

Yingluck has always talked about reconciliation. How is anything she has done even remotely related to reconciliation?