Heaven or Hell, How's your Thai life.

[canuckamuck]

Has your impression of Thailand changed? Do some of the opinions you once held seem ridiculous to you now?

When I arrived in 2003 I was over the moon, and although I found many things to be very strange I was not critical, rather I embraced the oddities. I was happy to no longer live in such a predictable and cold country. I suppose you could call this the honeymoon period. It was all an adventure, the more unusual the better. I just couldn't wait to email all the details back home.

Slowly my opinions began to change, some things started to become annoying. Like the crazy amount of paperwork to accomplish simple things. I started to miss western things, food, entertainment, meaningful conversation. I used to enjoy being treated special because I was from somewhere else; but this turned into annoyance at being continually reminded I was a foreigner, an oddity, sometimes a target. Slowly I became bothered by everything that wasn't the way I thought it should be.

There was a period of being critical of everything Thai. Everything was joke. I was surrounded by quite a few foreigners and had very little reason to change my point of view. In this period I married my wonderful wife. She is her own person, and can be very Thai or very un-Thai in her ways. She has no problem being critical, but how she put up with some of my ranting and negative attitudes to her homeland, I may never know.

As my situation in Thailand continued to change, and I moved away from most of the foreigners I knew; more and more my circle included Thai friends and relatives. Eventually I moved to a remote village and was about as isolated as possible from my western roots. Through that process I also began to understand quite a few things that I mocked before. I found my self making statements that were quite opposite from things I strongly believed before.

It is not as if I have become a raving Thai apologist, but I feel this country has arrived in a different place culturally and philosophically than my home (Canada) has. The people's attitudes and choices are partially a result of history and generations of beliefs. Things that happened generations ago. I do not have to agree with any of it, but I do have a responsibility to understand it, and respect their opinions and choices. Sovereignty is a basic human right.

In this forum we see the whole spectrum of attitudes from foreigners, much of it negative, some of it unrealistically defensive of all things Thai. But I think people are actually a lot more fond of this country than their words make it seem. We discuss our troubles, and forget our blessings, it is natural.

So here is a poll: In your overall impression of your life in this country on a scale of one to ten (1 being: "Expat trapped in Hell", and 10 being: "I have not died yet I live here in Heaven") rate your current experience.

[Gsxrnz]

Let me be the first to vote and give you a like for your post. I voted 9. I'm happy here. Some days I feel like putting the proverbial gun to my head, but then the humour of the situation takes over and I laugh so much I couldn't shoot straight anyway.

But I suspect if I was to vote on New Years Day, my hangover might lead me to vote somewhat differently.

[simon43]

I voted 9 as well. It's not paradise here, but then paradise doesn't exist in any country. I'm very happy with my own situation, although others in my shoes might vote a 1!

Simon

[Kangawallafox]

Although I don't live here I can see the attraction,for all the minor annoyances overall it's a pretty good place.

Like oz it has it's good points and bad,the good points in both outweigh the bad,it's how you live that will dictate the mood.

I think I would enjoy Thailand,I have on and off spent a great deal of time here over the years,just don't mess with my coffee and I'm sweet.

I have to say I like most things about Thailand,not everything but it's pretty cool,will not vote as I'm not an expat.

[HeavyDrinker]

Same as it was anywhere apart from the nice trimmings I get for being posted overseas.

I wake up, give the wife one, take the dog out, do my day's work, get paid and thats it really. Things are way better now I work from home thanks to modern technology, so there's no vile commute to blight my day.

Some days I wake up and when the day is a pippin - not too hot, not too cool, my workload is light, and I get home and the missus is all smiles, the dog comes back when I actually call him, the beer slides down just right, hits the spot nicely, and the collies I'm perving actually smile back,

I feel like I'm the luckiest man alive. Other days, things will rankle me but as I can't do sod all to change the negatives, I don't let them wear me down...though I'll admit there are days so frustrating and annoying, I wish I was heading for the airport...

Edited December 31, 2013 by HeavyDrinker

[ExpatOilWorker]

Sure there are ups & down, pros & con, good & bad days while living in Thailand, but life is a bumpy road.

What I like about Thailand is a total sense of freedom.

[ToddWeston]

I'm an 8, but if you asked my Thai who lived abroad for 26 years I think the vote would be 2 - strange this life we live.

[jonesthebaker]

Sure there are ups & down, pros & con, good & bad days while living in Thailand, but life is a bumpy road.

What I like about Thailand is a total sense of freedom.

freedom comes with a price: noise polution, 3rd worst for road casualitys on the planet - worst if considering the othere two are the present day Libya and Eritrea (recently nominated), racism, littering and polution, political instability ............. etc etc

Edited December 31, 2013 by jonesthebaker

[rayongchelsea]

I have lived here awhile.

I have become less integrated have more farang friendships now.

I immersed myself in Thailand years ago, when I was young, the novelty of the experience,all thai community..no other farangs so not by choice.

As I have accumulated more wealth I have more choice of where to live..I have consequently lived in areas "less Thai"..I generally like westerners..as I have got older I much prefer the latter..

My opinions haven't changed because of where I live..my opinions have changed because of my life experiences, having children, exposed to the school system, having a business and all that that entails,buying real estate, being scammed, but wouldn't that be the case in any country you move to?

[villagefarang]

I tend to think we like things we are good at, responding to the benefits we receive from our positive experiences. I have always been good at doing Thailand, even during some of the early phases.

Now it is almost like I have come out the other end of a long tunnel, obviously changed by the experience, but no longer engulfed by or constantly aware of its presence. I am standing in a field, looking up at the sky, free and unencumbered by the expectations of others or the need to coerce others into doing things my way.

Thailand is merely the canvas upon which I place the colors of my choosing, and I choose a bright and colorful pallet, not a dark and dingy one.

[robblok]

8, i love my life some things could be better some could not.

I would not understand anyone who has a below 6 and stays here.. unless locked by family or finances. But if not just move.

I am critical of Thais just as I was critical of Dutch people. I think how happy someone is is also related to his or her income. If your an OAP wanting to do Pattaya every day and you just don't have the money for it you could become quite miserable and putting all Thai things down as your not pleased with your life.

Health has something to do with how happy you are too.

[Gsxrnz]

I tend to think we like things we are good at, responding to the benefits we receive from our positive experiences. I have always been good at doing Thailand, even during some of the early phases.

Now it is almost like I have come out the other end of a long tunnel, obviously changed by the experience, but no longer engulfed by or constantly aware of its presence. I am standing in a field, looking up at the sky, free and unencumbered by the expectations of others or the need to coerce others into doing things my way.

Thailand is merely the canvas upon which I place the colors of my choosing, and I choose a bright and colorful pallet, not a dark and dingy one.

An excellent piece of prose VF.

I'm nowhere near as eloquent as you. I just sum it up by saying to all those who declare the glass of life is half empty, "who cares, plenty of room to add more Jack Daniel's".

[rayongchelsea]

I tend to think we like things we are good at, responding to the benefits we receive from our positive experiences. I have always been good at doing Thailand, even during some of the early phases.

Now it is almost like I have come out the other end of a long tunnel, obviously changed by the experience, but no longer engulfed by or constantly aware of its presence. I am standing in a field, looking up at the sky, free and unencumbered by the expectations of others or the need to coerce others into doing things my way.

Thailand is merely the canvas upon which I place the colors of my choosing, and I choose a bright and colorful pallet, not a dark and dingy one.

I don't have your contentment. Having a child, That responsibility changed every aspect of my life here in Thailand, the practicality of being here, her future and of course when I unfortunately became a single parent all the more acutely. It's just stopped just being about me.

[Ulysses G.]

I would have voted 10 when I first came here. After 20+ years I would give it a 9.

[willyumiii]

Heaven or hell in a Buddhist country?

Interesting!

Thinking back to my Catholic childhood,

Purgatory comes to mind.

Not quite heaven, not quite hell, somewhere in between.

But I have been paying my dues and expect the future to be better!

Yeah, purgatory is where I am right now!

Did you guess?

I voted 5.

Edited December 31, 2013 by willyumiii

[willyumiii]

Heaven or hell in a Buddhist country?

Interesting!

Thinking back to my Catholic childhood,

Purgatory comes to mind.

Not quite heaven, not quite hell, somewhere in between.

But I have been paying my dues and expect the future to be better!

Yeah, purgatory is where I am right now!

[suthansman]

I voted 7.

When I too came here originally I would have voted 9 or 10 but now I see life is not the utopia it first appears to be. There is a lot going on under the surface. What appears to be deep, calm waters, hide some rather nasty rocks beneath the surface. Life here is often far more complex than at first appears. Yet life can also be simple and slow. The days, weeks and months roll into one another and time seems to be forgotten.

All in all I am happier than not.

If i could speak and understand Thai, I think that would help but I am unable to learn more than a few hundred words. When I hear a Thai speak so fast, I cannot keep up and maybe that is one of the biggest problems here.

Trying to get things done is not easy. Mechanics, roof repairs and so many other similar things never seem to be done correctly and they jabber on and on before doing what should be such a simple thing.

Then there is Thai time. Arranging a time with a Thai? Definitely Thai time is sometime within several hours of the arranged time - a bit like waiting for the plumber back home

7 seems a fair vote for me.

[Soutpeel]

After 13 years working here I would say a 6- 7, it was a novelty for first few years, but as the years go on getting more cynical about the place, but then again my intention was never to make Thailand "home" and as I have started many times on TV once the work finishes here I am going home, this is my portion now but if I am still here working when hitting retirement age, I will reassess my position on whether I stay or go, but at this point the intention is to leave

[thaibeachlovers]

I voted 5.

When it's lovely ( usually involves seeing a few exceptionally beautiful Thai girls ) and nothing goes wrong it's the best place on earth. When it's not nice ( usually involving bureacracy in some form ) it's hell on earth.

[weegee]

I tend to think we like things we are good at, responding to the benefits we receive from our positive experiences. I have always been good at doing Thailand, even during some of the early phases.

Now it is almost like I have come out the other end of a long tunnel, obviously changed by the experience, but no longer engulfed by or constantly aware of its presence. I am standing in a field, looking up at the sky, free and unencumbered by the expectations of others or the need to coerce others into doing things my way.

Thailand is merely the canvas upon which I place the colors of my choosing, and I choose a bright and colorful pallet, not a dark and dingy one.

An excellent piece of prose VF.

I'm nowhere near as eloquent as you. I just sum it up by saying to all those who declare the glass of life is half empty, "who cares, plenty of room to add more Jack Daniel's".

Did you mention Jack daniels??????......where, when, and what else apart from Ice(water type) do we need???

[kikoman]

I voted a 10, only because that was the highest I could vote, I am one of those people you referred to as "unrealistically defensive of all things Thai" which is untrue but only the people that find fault of my embracing "MY" life here in Thailand, as I do not agree with their negative outlook as they relate it to Thailand!

I have been here going on 14 years, live in a rural country village with no interaction of any sort with other expats and prefer to live my life that way. Except for my family and children, I miss nothing of the home country, those that love to live their lives in that fashion can have it. Life in Thailand has been a great improvement over my life in my home country, maybe that is the major difference between me and other expats. I was very dissatisfied with my life in the home country and was looking for a new country and people that I could identify with, which I found in Thailand!

Cheers

[chiang mai]

After ten years here I voted 8 although I was torn between 8 & 9 so figure it's really 8.5

Why 8.5? Because nowhere is perfect and I recognize that 8.5 is probably as good as it's ever going to get anywhere - I suspect if I had to rate the place I came from using the same scale I would, knowing what I know now, give it around 5.

[Bcgardener]

From 1995 to 2007 I would have given it an 8. However after moving family and business here in 2006 this has now slipped to a 4 mainly because of the issues I face in business here, along with Thai attitudes. My Thai wife who lived in Australia for 12 years would probably give it a 1 or 2 as she has become westernised and cannot cope with the face saving bull that occurs on a daily basis here. I cannot see us retiring here, just back for holidays with a permanent home in Australia

My Pro's for here

Cheap Labour

Cheap real estate (apart from BKK)

Good neighbours where we live

A cheap night out (relative to Australia)

Lower costs on a lot of materials

The maid and gardener

Free trade agreement with China for importing my components

Free trade agreement with Australia for exporting my finished goods

My Con's for here

Any dealings with Government departments and the associated corruption

The mountains of paperwork required to do anything

Thai atitudes and work ethic (some exceptions in my company, but not many)

The Thai peoples lack of regard for the environment... in their own Country!

Unreliable infrastructure (but definately not third world)

The high consumption of alchohol by both Thais and ex-pats (where I live anyway)

The dirty and poorly maintained beaches ( A Sydney beach is pristine compared to a so-called resort island beach in Thailand)

The driving is a maybe as the total chaos on the roads at least provides some entertainment when you are manouvering through it

[noahvail]

So many of you on this thread are such excellent writers that I scarcely dare to add a small comment. I voted 8. i live in a small village in rural Isaan. Took one point off for the locals' lack of driving ability, and another for the quality of medical care. Saw four different docs in the local hospital, got the same incorrect diagnosis four times. Went a fifth time to a different doc who looked at the previous bloodwork and said "this is all wrong" - gave me one pill/day for four days, done. I went back to thank her, found out she was just a per-diem. Ah well, you can't have everything. And 8/10 suits me just fine.

[geoman1976]

I voted 5 because there are two extremes here. Some of the best people I know are Thai but it is also an extremely racist place. I do not frequent nor date the same kinds of women that most farang that come to Thailand do. My fiance and her family are extremely good people and she is very beautiful and the kind of girl that Thai guys love. The envy and comments they make to us are extremely rude but we try to ignore them. The more I learn the Thai language, the more I realize how rude so many can actually be. I mostly spend my time with Thai people and do not hang out nor have ever been to the bar girl areas. Not my cup of tea. I came here because I am buddhist, the economic treaty the US has with Thailand giving me some advantages, and the friends I already had here, but I m still treated like a skirt chasing, low moral rourist taht knows nothing about Thailand. The truth is I know more about Thailand than most Thais and my friends from here would tell you the same thing. It can be heaven and hell, both on a daily basis.

[AbeSurd]

8 from me. I'm 61, been retired in Thailand most of the last seven years. Compared with living in my homeland, the UK, it's still an adventure here - and I like that a lot. Back in the UK life would be at very best a 5.

[GuestHouse]

I've always said, and I still say, those who love and respect anyone, wife, girlfriend or simply a friend is doing them a great disservice by discussing them here on TVF.

[Costas2008]

Can I vote twice?

10......Within my household and immediate environment.

2......For bad outside experiences in General.

That is why I still live in Thailand.

[Ajaan]

ីIn general, farangs just need to chill about life in Thailand. It's SO much better than living in the West. And if you don't think so, why the hell do you stay here?

There's the fantastic, cheap food everywhere. The incredible weather (once you get used to it, there are only three months per year that come close to intolerable). The way people are so social, life just overflowing on the streets everywhere. The Thai love of sanuk, the importance people place on having a good time. The fact that there are entertainment venues--which include sex for relatively low cash outlay, something we're so damn skittish and hypocritical about in the West--in every town of size, for EVERYONE: the well-heeled Thai or foreigner, the motorcycle taxi driver, and YES, the middle-class (and to a lesser extent, working-class, but it's there) Thai WOMAN as well. And--this one gets more important to you the more over 40 you become--the respect of older people. Seriously, try being an over-40 (or worse, over 50) male in the West...or even worse, a woman...you're pretty much treating as a non-entity, as invisible.

I know what happens. You live here for a while, and you start to get dragged down by the negatives: the lack of a work ethic, the fact that the average Thai 25-year-old has the mentality of a 13-year-old Westerner when it comes to romantic relationships, the rampant passive-aggressiveness, racism, corruption, lack of critical thinking skills, cheating, lying, voracious money-grubbing... But you know? We have all of those things in the West too. The difference is, many of us are apologetic about them, or try to avoid them, and in Thailand, there's virtually no apology for any of these things at all, and just about everyone participates.

But with a little patience and tolerance, one can live a long, happy, stress-free life here. If you let everything get to you, yeah, you're going to be miserable...but I'm willing to bet that those who are miserable here would be just as miserable, if not more so, back home in the West.

[gladaseya]

I was invited to visit Chiang Mai by friends in the U.S.

After spending 11 years in southern China, I found the differences to be both charming and disappointing.

I've been here a year now and have learned how to avoid areas that may be problematic.

I find Chiang Mai to be delightful. I ride a bicycle, not a motor bike, and have no problems with traffic, parking or many of the things I hear others complain about.

The weather is delightful.

I guess I could think of some things to complain about, import duty for example, but why complain. I'm a guest here, not a citizen.

Yes, I find Thailand, to be pretty much a little piece of heaven. Please don't ask me about Bangkok or any of the islands to the south.