Are you an Atheist/Believer?

[StreetCowboy]

 

Just because you have spiritual beliefs doesn't mean you don't accept the (admittedly limited) hypotheses of modern science to attempt to explain such things.

There is no conflict between my (also limited) conceptions of god and most scientific theories.

Apologetics (from Greek ἀπολογία, "speaking in defense") is the discipline of defending a position (often religious) through the systematic use of information. Early Christian writers (c. 120–220) who defended their faith against critics and recommended their faith to outsiders were called apologists.^[1]

 

Did you mean to post that in the shame and morals thread?

[thailiketoo]

 

Just because you have spiritual beliefs doesn't mean you don't accept the (admittedly limited) hypotheses of modern science to attempt to explain such things.

There is no conflict between my (also limited) conceptions of god and most scientific theories.

Apologetics (from Greek ἀπολογία, "speaking in defense") is the discipline of defending a position (often religious) through the systematic use of information. Early Christian writers (c. 120–220) who defended their faith against critics and recommended their faith to outsiders were called apologists.^[1]

 

Did you mean to post that in the shame and morals thread?

Nope.

[RandomSand]

and here I am feeding my cat, dog-food all this time. Boy is my dog going to be surprised when I tell him he is a cat.

Does your cat believe in life after dog ?

[pitrevie]

In many countries a particular religion is woven with in the fabric of that country's culture, In such situations it is difficult for a parent not to initiate the child in to that religion at an early age.if not impossible, and not risk ostracism .

I consider my self an Agnostic with strong Atheist tendencies, but when I am in Greece where I have family, I find my self attending religious events such as easter, because they are such intrical part of the Greek life.

It is a difficult situation.

Johnathan Miller once described himself as a cultural Jew, he is an atheist but often attends many Jewish ceremonies as that is part of his culture. I see no problem with that I often attend various church ceremonies mostly weddings and funerals but they have no religious significance for me. Despite those idiots on Fox News who make a great big song and dance about the fight against Christmas I guess like most atheists I also enjoy the Christmas holiday and I recall working alongside some Muslim colleagues who also enjoyed Christmas. I have often attended Buddhist ceremonies here in Thailand and again they have no religious significance for me.

[pastafarian]

Pretty much sums it up!

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[RandomSand]

and here I am feeding my cat, dog-food all this time. Boy is my dog going to be surprised when I tell him he is a cat.

Does your cat believe in life after dog ?

Opps, Freudian slip in my poor attempt at comedy.

*I'm a believer.. 100%

[sirineou]

and here I am feeding my cat, dog-food all this time. Boy is my dog going to be surprised when I tell him he is a cat.

Does your cat believe in life after dog ?

Opps, Freudian slip in my poor attempt at comedy.

*I'm a believer.. 100%

a believer of what?

Life after Dog or Dog after life

[sirineou]

In many countries a particular religion is woven with in the fabric of that country's culture, In such situations it is difficult for a parent not to initiate the child in to that religion at an early age.if not impossible, and not risk ostracism .

I consider my self an Agnostic with strong Atheist tendencies, but when I am in Greece where I have family, I find my self attending religious events such as easter, because they are such intrical part of the Greek life.

It is a difficult situation.

Johnathan Miller once described himself as a cultural Jew, he is an atheist but often attends many Jewish ceremonies as that is part of his culture. I see no problem with that I often attend various church ceremonies mostly weddings and funerals but they have no religious significance for me. Despite those idiots on Fox News who make a great big song and dance about the fight against Christmas I guess like most atheists I also enjoy the Christmas holiday and I recall working alongside some Muslim colleagues who also enjoyed Christmas. I have often attended Buddhist ceremonies here in Thailand and again they have no religious significance for me.

Yes indeed^^^^^

I think that a very large number of Christians are also cultural Christians, that would not admit their atheism,some times even to them selves. because of the cultural stigma involved. As atheism becomes more acceptable I think more and more would be coming out of the closet

[sirineou]

Twitchy finger

Sorry double post

Though I must admite, my post reply was sooo good, it deserved being posted twice

Edited January 11, 2014 by sirineou

[MrGaoMungGawn]

And, for those who do not believe in god,

There is one pressing question that you gotta ask yourself:

If you cannot lay the responsibility at God's feet,

Then can you accept the responsibility yourselves,

To believe that you are fit to decide whether or not to bring a human life into this world, to face torment, and pain, as well as some pleasure, with no assurance of success, and likely great hardship.

Who are you to decide, anyway?

I feel, personally, that I do not have the right to make this decision for someone else.

I do not have the right to decide for another human whether or not he/she should be forced to exist in this world,

Sometimes for over 100 long years.

That is right. How can I feel that I have the right to condemn another to pure hell on earth, in some cases.

There are no guarantees in life, and it is the biggest risk of all,

To be born.

I would never presume to be so omniscient that I could logically make this decision for another human.

And, sometimes, I also wish that no one had taken it upon themselves to make this decision for me.

Happy days.

Or....

If you believe in a god, or gods,

Then you do not need to take responsibility for the life of another,

When the crappola hits the fan.

Its not my fault,

God did it.

[orosee]

Nice to see this is still going strong after a few days.

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

and here I am feeding my cat, dog-food all this time. Boy is my dog going to be surprised when I tell him he is a cat.

Does your cat believe in life after dog ?

Quite and if you don't believe in life after dog, then explain away why vicar's wear dog collars !

[MrGaoMungGawn]

and here I am feeding my cat, dog-food all this time. Boy is my dog going to be surprised when I tell him he is a cat.

Does your cat believe in life after dog ?

Quite and if you don't believe in life after dog, then explain away why vicar's wear dog collars !

They like the smell of starch in the morning?

[sirineou]

And, for those who do not believe in god,

There is one pressing question that you gotta ask yourself:

If you cannot lay the responsibility at God's feet,

Then can you accept the responsibility yourselves,

To believe that you are fit to decide whether or not to bring a human life into this world, to face torment, and pain, as well as some pleasure, with no assurance of success, and likely great hardship.

Who are you to decide, anyway?

I feel, personally, that I do not have the right to make this decision for someone else.

I do not have the right to decide for another human whether or not he/she should be forced to exist in this world,

Sometimes for over 100 long years.

That is right. How can I feel that I have the right to condemn another to pure hell on earth, in some cases.

There are no guarantees in life, and it is the biggest risk of all,

To be born.

I would never presume to be so omniscient that I could logically make this decision for another human.

And, sometimes, I also wish that no one had taken it upon themselves to make this decision for me.

Happy days.

Or....

If you believe in a god, or gods,

Then you do not need to take responsibility for the life of another,

When the crappola hits the fan.

Its not my fault,

God did it.

If you cannot lay the responsibility at God's feet,

Then can you accept the responsibility yourselves,

Yes indeed

Grow up, grow some balls , and take responsibility for your actions.

It is time to abandon your childhood invisible friend who would fix everything for you, and take charge

That is right. How can I feel that I have the right to condemn another to pure hell on earth, in some cases.

There are no guarantees in life, and it is the biggest risk of all,

To be born

I am sorry that your life on earth is pure hell

Perhaps if you became proactive and took charge of your life, things will improve for you

Chock Dee

PS: risk in life is what makes life worth living. if everything was guarantied. what would be your part in it? just a casual observer?

Edited January 11, 2014 by sirineou

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

and here I am feeding my cat, dog-food all this time. Boy is my dog going to be surprised when I tell him he is a cat.

Does your cat believe in life after dog ?

Can your cat recite the catechism: " I believe in one dog" !

[MrGaoMungGawn]

And, for those who do not believe in god,

There is one pressing question that you gotta ask yourself:

If you cannot lay the responsibility at God's feet,

Then can you accept the responsibility yourselves,

To believe that you are fit to decide whether or not to bring a human life into this world, to face torment, and pain, as well as some pleasure, with no assurance of success, and likely great hardship.

Who are you to decide, anyway?

I feel, personally, that I do not have the right to make this decision for someone else.

I do not have the right to decide for another human whether or not he/she should be forced to exist in this world,

Sometimes for over 100 long years.

That is right. How can I feel that I have the right to condemn another to pure hell on earth, in some cases.

There are no guarantees in life, and it is the biggest risk of all,

To be born.

I would never presume to be so omniscient that I could logically make this decision for another human.

And, sometimes, I also wish that no one had taken it upon themselves to make this decision for me.

Happy days.

Or....

If you believe in a god, or gods,

Then you do not need to take responsibility for the life of another,

When the crappola hits the fan.

Its not my fault,

God did it.

If you cannot lay the responsibility at God's feet,

Then can you accept the responsibility yourselves,

Yes indeed

Grow up, grow some balls , and take responsibility for your actions.

It is time to abandon your childhood invisible friend who would fix everything for you, and take charge

That is right. How can I feel that I have the right to condemn another to pure hell on earth, in some cases.

There are no guarantees in life, and it is the biggest risk of all,

To be born

I am sorry that your life on earth is pure hell

Perhaps if you became proactive and took charge of your life, things will improve for you

Chock Dee

PS: risk in life is what makes life worth living. if everything was guarantied. what would be your part in it? just a casual observer?

I do hope that you are not intentionally misconstruing my words,

Just so you can say something negative about my not being proactive and taking charge enough for you.

I did not say what you said I said,

But I cannot blame you for not wanting to read what I did say.

I said that in some cases life is hell, but I did not say this was true for me.

I was talking about vent man, for example.

The man who used to sit outside my university in the winter cross-legged on steam vents to keep warm.

The steam was coming up from the hell below, I imagine.

Chok Di, to you.

PS: I prefer not so much risk, and more assurances of a social safety net, for one. But then, you will probably say I am a communist, or a socialist, or an atheist, which I am. Chok Mai Di, very often this is the case.

Edited January 11, 2014 by MrGaoMungGawn

[alexviseu]

Yep, which of the following is correct IF you are a non Christian.

I have a God and he is my master

I have a god and he is my master

Most people would choose the former which would be incorrect but not all. If you go back and read all the posts there have been a number of members who have used the 'G' and 'g' perfectly.

Not the best example because (in theory) you could be a non Christian yet consider the Christian god (note not capitalized because it refers to the concept of a god) to be your god. That in itself would be rather odd and most likely off topic.

Why would you say "Yep" to that information regarding English language usage of capital letters which contradicted what you had just said and then proceed to disagree with it?

I write God all the time because it is the rule that one follows to represent something that is unique (to a varying degree). The same way I write Canada or John! There is nothing christian or holy regarding those names but I (and others) just follow the rules of the English language.

Your assertion that someone is a christian because they follow the rules of the English language is demonstrably wrong.

Edited January 11, 2014 by alexviseu

[bundoi]

Is this question still going ;-)

Abrahamic religion (not only Judaists, but also Christians and Muslims) believe a mysterious entity favoured a small number of middle eastern tribes 1000 year ago give or take a thousand years ....with special revelationas from mountain tops, caves etc...

LOL

[MrGaoMungGawn]

Is this question still going ;-)

Abrahamic religion (not only Judaists, but also Christians and Muslims) believe a mysterious entity favoured a small number of middle eastern tribes 1000 year ago give or take a thousand years ....with special revelationas from mountain tops, caves etc...

LOL

Care to break bread, brother?

[sirineou]

If you cannot lay the responsibility at God's feet,

Then can you accept the responsibility yourselves,

If you believe in a god, or gods,

Then you do not need to take responsibility for the life of another,

When the crappola hits the fan.

Its not my fault,

God did it.

Yes indeed

Grow up, grow some balls , and take responsibility for your actions.

It is time to abandon your childhood invisible friend who would fix everything for you, and take charge

That is right. How can I feel that I have the right to condemn another to pure hell on earth, in some cases.

There are no guarantees in life, and it is the biggest risk of all,

To be born

I am sorry that your life on earth is pure hell

Perhaps if you became proactive and took charge of your life, things will improve for you

Chock Dee

PS: risk in life is what makes life worth living. if everything was guarantied. what would be your part in it? just a casual observer?

I do hope that you are not intentionally misconstruing my words,

Just so you can say something negative about my not being proactive and taking charge enough for you.

I did not say what you said I said,

But I cannot blame you for not wanting to read what I did say.

I said that in some cases life is hell, but I did not say this was true for me.

I was talking about vent man, for example.

The man who used to sit outside my university in the winter cross-legged on steam vents to keep warm.

The steam was coming up from the hell below, I imagine.

Chok Di, to you.

PS: I prefer not so much risk, and more assurances of a social safety net, for one. But then, you will probably say I am a communist, or a socialist, or an atheist, which I am. Chok Mai Di, very often this is the case.

Perhaps English is not your native language and you are not expressing your self properly, or perhaps it is my fault and I am not understanding you properly. Trust me I read your post several times trying to decipher what you meant because you seem to be arguing both sides of the proposition.

but tell me , did you or did you not say, and I quote:

"If you cannot lay the responsibility at God's feet,

Then can you accept the responsibility yourselves,

To believe that you are fit to decide whether or not to bring a human life into this world, to face torment, and pain, as well as some pleasure, with no assurance of success, and likely great hardship.

Who are you to decide, anyway?"

"I feel, personally, that I do not have the right to make this decision for someone else.

I do not have the right to decide for another human whether or not he/she should be forced to exist in this world,

Sometimes for over 100 long years.

That is right. How can I feel that I have the right to condemn another to pure hell on earth, in some cases.

There are no guarantees in life, and it is the biggest risk of all,"

"I would never presume to be so omniscient that I could logically make this decision for another human.

And, sometimes, I also wish that no one had taken it upon themselves to make this decision for me."

I'm I misquoting anything you said?

In the first quote do you or do you not lay responsibility on Gods feet?

On the second quote, do you or do you not say

"I feel personally" from that statement should not then discern that what you state is your personal feeling?

Did you or did you not say " to pure hell on earth in some cases" and isn't this the earth you live in?

Fro the last quote ,shouldn't I assume from it. that some times you wish you were never born?

Edited January 11, 2014 by sirineou

[MrGaoMungGawn]

I said that in some cases life is hell, but I did not say this was true for me.

I was talking about vent man, for example.

The man who used to sit outside my university in the winter cross-legged on steam vents to keep warm.

The steam was coming up from the hell below, I imagine.

Chok Di, to you.

PS: I prefer not so much risk, and more assurances of a social safety net, for one. But then, you will probably say I am a communist, or a socialist, or an atheist, which I am. Chok Mai Di, very often this is the case.

Perhaps English is not your native language and you are not expressing your self properly, or perhaps it is my fault and I am not understanding you properly. Trust me I read your post several times trying to decipher what you meant because you seem to be arguing both sides of the proposition.

but tell me , did you or did you not say, and I quote:

"If you cannot lay the responsibility at God's feet,

Then can you accept the responsibility yourselves,

To believe that you are fit to decide whether or not to bring a human life into this world, to face torment, and pain, as well as some pleasure, with no assurance of success, and likely great hardship.

Who are you to decide, anyway?"

"I feel, personally, that I do not have the right to make this decision for someone else.

I do not have the right to decide for another human whether or not he/she should be forced to exist in this world,

Sometimes for over 100 long years.

That is right. How can I feel that I have the right to condemn another to pure hell on earth, in some cases.

There are no guarantees in life, and it is the biggest risk of all,"

"I would never presume to be so omniscient that I could logically make this decision for another human.

And, sometimes, I also wish that no one had taken it upon themselves to make this decision for me."

I'm I misquoting anything you said?

In the first quote do you or do you not lay responsibility on Gods feet?

On the second quote, do you or do you not say

"I feel personally" from that statement should not then discern that what you state is your personal feeling?

Did you or did you not say " to pure hell on earth in some cases" and isn't this the earth you live in?

Fro the last quote ,shouldn't I assume from it. that some times you wish you were never born?

First, thank you for reading what I wrote, and I do feel strongly about this particular subject, the right of one to make the decision for another, whether or not he or she should be committed to living on earth for up to 100 years, a very long time.

Regarding what you quoted, I do not say that there is a god, but IF there is no god then we still cannot in all good conscience take responsibility to decide for another that he or she will be forced to live life in this world. This is why I have never made such a decision, and why I could not feel right about deciding to have children. What could I say to my children if they decided that life was not as good as I had always thought it to be? I would have nothing to justify my decision to have children.

If there is a god, and if one sincerely believes in this god, then one can follow the teachings of a god, and then avoid taking responsibility for having children. If the god asked that man go forth and procreate, for example, then that is what must be done. If the crappola hit the fan, if the child was hit by cancer, and had downs syndrome, and also had hydroencephalitis when abortion therapy was forbidden, then no one could lay this responsibility and man's feet. God did it.

We all are at risk of being condemned to live a hell on earth, witness Buchenwald or piles of skulls in Cambodia, or the lifeless limbs of of Stephen Hawking. When something like this happens to our children, then we better be able to say one of two things, god made me do it, or I was thoughtless and did not fully understand the potential ramifications of my actions in the sack.

If you like risk, then you will love this life.

I do not enjoy risk for risk's sake,

But some others enjoy dying on Everest while their family waits at home.

I may argue two sides of the issue, yes, but that is because this subject is not that easily answered, whether or not we even have the right to have children.

I believe that we do not have that right.

And in traditional societies, most people would say that they have an obligation to have children to work on the farm, and to care for their parents, and to pass on the family name, maybe even to provide people to fight wars.

There, too, is always the motherland, say in the former USSR, which needs children for various things.

Just as Mao needed children to build levies by digging with spoons, if required,

Another apocryphal tale, and Mao or Zhou never said that.

This is a very important thing to get straight:

Do we have the right to father a child, or bear a child into this world?

And often ones hell on earth is not brought about by any personal decision or lack of decision, or lack of fortitude, or depravity.

It just happens, because life is risk.

(Am I a native speaker of English?, you ask. Yes, sometimes I wonder myself. You decide.)

Edited January 11, 2014 by MrGaoMungGawn

[alexviseu]

It is usually the case that anything that immediately followis "I personally believe" is based on nothing but wishful thinking.

Edited January 11, 2014 by alexviseu

[sirineou]

I said that in some cases life is hell, but I did not say this was true for me.

I was talking about vent man, for example.

The man who used to sit outside my university in the winter cross-legged on steam vents to keep warm.

The steam was coming up from the hell below, I imagine.

Chok Di, to you.

PS: I prefer not so much risk, and more assurances of a social safety net, for one. But then, you will probably say I am a communist, or a socialist, or an atheist, which I am. Chok Mai Di, very often this is the case.

Perhaps English is not your native language and you are not expressing your self properly, or perhaps it is my fault and I am not understanding you properly. Trust me I read your post several times trying to decipher what you meant because you seem to be arguing both sides of the proposition.

but tell me , did you or did you not say, and I quote:

"If you cannot lay the responsibility at God's feet,

Then can you accept the responsibility yourselves,

To believe that you are fit to decide whether or not to bring a human life into this world, to face torment, and pain, as well as some pleasure, with no assurance of success, and likely great hardship.

Who are you to decide, anyway?"

"I feel, personally, that I do not have the right to make this decision for someone else.

I do not have the right to decide for another human whether or not he/she should be forced to exist in this world,

Sometimes for over 100 long years.

That is right. How can I feel that I have the right to condemn another to pure hell on earth, in some cases.

There are no guarantees in life, and it is the biggest risk of all,"

"I would never presume to be so omniscient that I could logically make this decision for another human.

And, sometimes, I also wish that no one had taken it upon themselves to make this decision for me."

I'm I misquoting anything you said?

In the first quote do you or do you not lay responsibility on Gods feet?

On the second quote, do you or do you not say

"I feel personally" from that statement should not then discern that what you state is your personal feeling?

Did you or did you not say " to pure hell on earth in some cases" and isn't this the earth you live in?

Fro the last quote ,shouldn't I assume from it. that some times you wish you were never born?

First, thank you for reading what I wrote, and I do feel strongly about this particular subject, the right of one to make the decision for another, whether or not he or she should be committed to living on earth for up to 100 years, a very long time.

Regarding what you quoted, I do not say that there is a god, but IF there is no god then we still cannot in all good conscience take responsibility to decide for another that he or she will be forced to live life in this world. This is why I have never made such a decision, and why I could not feel right about deciding to have children. What could I say to my children if they decided that life was not as good as I had always thought it to be? I would have nothing to justify my decision to have children.

If there is a god, and if one sincerely believes in this god, then one can follow the teachings of a god, and then avoid taking responsibility for having children. If the god asked that man go forth and procreate, for example, then that is what must be done. If the crappola hit the fan, if the child was hit by cancer, and had downs syndrome, and also had hydroencephalitis when abortion therapy was forbidden, then no one could lay this responsibility and man's feet. God did it.

We all are at risk of being condemned to live a hell on earth, witness Buchenwald or piles of skulls in Cambodia, or the lifeless limbs of of Stephen Hawking. When something like this happens to our children, then we better be able to say one of two things, god made me do it, or I was thoughtless and did not fully understand the potential ramifications of my actions in the sack.

If you like risk, then you will love this life.

I do not enjoy risk for risk's sake,

But some others enjoy dying on Everest while their family waits at home.

I may argue two sides of the issue, yes, but that is because this subject is not that easily answered, whether or not we even have the right to have children.

I believe that we do not have that right.

And in traditional societies, most people would say that they have an obligation to have children to work on the farm, and to care for their parents, and to pass on the family name, maybe even to provide people to fight wars.

There, too, is always the motherland, say in the former USSR, which needs children for various things.

Just as Mao needed children to build levies by digging with spoons, if required,

Another apocryphal tale, and Mao or Zhou never said that.

This is a very important thing to get straight:

Do we have the right to father a child, or bear a child into this world?

And often ones hell on earth is not brought about by any personal decision or lack of decision, or lack of fortitude, or depravity.

It just happens, because life is risk.

(Am I a native speaker of English?, you ask. Yes, sometimes I wonder myself. You decide.)

First let me say that it is good that you are thinking about this things

Of course we have the right to have children

This is empirical, it is our purpose

it is the only right that exists,

everything else derives it's self from that right, or purpose

You cant ask them if they want to be born, because they are not born yet, Don't you think it would be some what to arrogant for you to decide their right to exist?

Should you not let them make that choice them selves?

The question has being asked

What came first? the egg or the chicken?

The answer is obvious

The egg, the chicken is simply the egg's idea of making an other egg

and that;s all you are my friend, and egg trying to make an other egg

Any egg that abandons that simple proposition is simply an ex-egg

or what some might say egg drop soup

Edited January 11, 2014 by sirineou

[MrGaoMungGawn]

No. We actually do not have the right to decide for others whether or not they will be compelled to spend 100 years on earth.

Not unless we can somehow guarantee some acceptable minimum level and quality of existence.

You say that it is empirically obvious we do have this right.

But you are wrong, I believe.

Do you also believe life is sacred?

I do not, and how can it be, when nothing is sacred but sacred cows.

[itsrebel]

I said that in some cases life is hell, but I did not say this was true for me.

I was talking about vent man, for example.

The man who used to sit outside my university in the winter cross-legged on steam vents to keep warm.

The steam was coming up from the hell below, I imagine.

Chok Di, to you.

PS: I prefer not so much risk, and more assurances of a social safety net, for one. But then, you will probably say I am a communist, or a socialist, or an atheist, which I am. Chok Mai Di, very often this is the case.

Perhaps English is not your native language and you are not expressing your self properly, or perhaps it is my fault and I am not understanding you properly. Trust me I read your post several times trying to decipher what you meant because you seem to be arguing both sides of the proposition.

but tell me , did you or did you not say, and I quote:

"If you cannot lay the responsibility at God's feet,

Then can you accept the responsibility yourselves,

To believe that you are fit to decide whether or not to bring a human life into this world, to face torment, and pain, as well as some pleasure, with no assurance of success, and likely great hardship.

Who are you to decide, anyway?"

"I feel, personally, that I do not have the right to make this decision for someone else.

I do not have the right to decide for another human whether or not he/she should be forced to exist in this world,

Sometimes for over 100 long years.

That is right. How can I feel that I have the right to condemn another to pure hell on earth, in some cases.

There are no guarantees in life, and it is the biggest risk of all,"

"I would never presume to be so omniscient that I could logically make this decision for another human.

And, sometimes, I also wish that no one had taken it upon themselves to make this decision for me."

I'm I misquoting anything you said?

In the first quote do you or do you not lay responsibility on Gods feet?

On the second quote, do you or do you not say

"I feel personally" from that statement should not then discern that what you state is your personal feeling?

Did you or did you not say " to pure hell on earth in some cases" and isn't this the earth you live in?

Fro the last quote ,shouldn't I assume from it. that some times you wish you were never born?

First, thank you for reading what I wrote, and I do feel strongly about this particular subject, the right of one to make the decision for another, whether or not he or she should be committed to living on earth for up to 100 years, a very long time.

Regarding what you quoted, I do not say that there is a god, but IF there is no god then we still cannot in all good conscience take responsibility to decide for another that he or she will be forced to live life in this world. This is why I have never made such a decision, and why I could not feel right about deciding to have children. What could I say to my children if they decided that life was not as good as I had always thought it to be? I would have nothing to justify my decision to have children.

If there is a god, and if one sincerely believes in this god, then one can follow the teachings of a god, and then avoid taking responsibility for having children. If the god asked that man go forth and procreate, for example, then that is what must be done. If the crappola hit the fan, if the child was hit by cancer, and had downs syndrome, and also had hydroencephalitis when abortion therapy was forbidden, then no one could lay this responsibility and man's feet. God did it.

We all are at risk of being condemned to live a hell on earth, witness Buchenwald or piles of skulls in Cambodia, or the lifeless limbs of of Stephen Hawking. When something like this happens to our children, then we better be able to say one of two things, god made me do it, or I was thoughtless and did not fully understand the potential ramifications of my actions in the sack.

If you like risk, then you will love this life.

I do not enjoy risk for risk's sake,

But some others enjoy dying on Everest while their family waits at home.

I may argue two sides of the issue, yes, but that is because this subject is not that easily answered, whether or not we even have the right to have children.

I believe that we do not have that right.

And in traditional societies, most people would say that they have an obligation to have children to work on the farm, and to care for their parents, and to pass on the family name, maybe even to provide people to fight wars.

There, too, is always the motherland, say in the former USSR, which needs children for various things.

Just as Mao needed children to build levies by digging with spoons, if required,

Another apocryphal tale, and Mao or Zhou never said that.

This is a very important thing to get straight:

Do we have the right to father a child, or bear a child into this world?

And often ones hell on earth is not brought about by any personal decision or lack of decision, or lack of fortitude, or depravity.

It just happens, because life is risk.

(Am I a native speaker of English?, you ask. Yes, sometimes I wonder myself. You decide.)

First let me say that it is good that you are thinking about this things

Of course we have the right to have children

This is empirical, it is our purpose

it is the only right that exists,

everything else derives it's self from that right, or purpose

You cant ask them if they want to be born, because they are not born yet, Don't you think it would be some what to arrogant for you to decide their right to exist?

Should you not let them make that choice them selves?

The question has being asked

What came first? the egg or the chicken?

The answer is obvious

The egg, the chicken is simply the egg's idea of making an other egg

and that;s all you are my friend, and egg trying to make an other egg

Any egg that abandons that simple proposition is simply an ex-egg

or what some might say egg drop soup alt=laugh.png pagespeed_url_hash=4020895376 width=20 height=20>

"You cant ask them if they want to be born, because they are not born yet, Don't you think it would be some what to arrogant for you to decide their right to exist?

Should you not let them make that choice them selves?"

So what you are suggesting is that everyone has a child or two and then when those children realise that it isn't worth it, they commit suicide?

[sirineou]

In the first quote do you or do you not lay responsibility on Gods feet?

On the second quote, do you or do you not say

"I feel personally" from that statement should not then discern that what you state is your personal feeling?

Did you or did you not say " to pure hell on earth in some cases" and isn't this the earth you live in?

Fro the last quote ,shouldn't I assume from it. that some times you wish you were never born?

First, thank you for reading what I wrote, and I do feel strongly about this particular subject, the right of one to make the decision for another, whether or not he or she should be committed to living on earth for up to 100 years, a very long time.

Regarding what you quoted, I do not say that there is a god, but IF there is no god then we still cannot in all good conscience take responsibility to decide for another that he or she will be forced to live life in this world. This is why I have never made such a decision, and why I could not feel right about deciding to have children. What could I say to my children if they decided that life was not as good as I had always thought it to be? I would have nothing to justify my decision to have children.

If there is a god, and if one sincerely believes in this god, then one can follow the teachings of a god, and then avoid taking responsibility for having children. If the god asked that man go forth and procreate, for example, then that is what must be done. If the crappola hit the fan, if the child was hit by cancer, and had downs syndrome, and also had hydroencephalitis when abortion therapy was forbidden, then no one could lay this responsibility and man's feet. God did it.

We all are at risk of being condemned to live a hell on earth, witness Buchenwald or piles of skulls in Cambodia, or the lifeless limbs of of Stephen Hawking. When something like this happens to our children, then we better be able to say one of two things, god made me do it, or I was thoughtless and did not fully understand the potential ramifications of my actions in the sack.

If you like risk, then you will love this life.

I do not enjoy risk for risk's sake,

But some others enjoy dying on Everest while their family waits at home.

I may argue two sides of the issue, yes, but that is because this subject is not that easily answered, whether or not we even have the right to have children.

I believe that we do not have that right.

And in traditional societies, most people would say that they have an obligation to have children to work on the farm, and to care for their parents, and to pass on the family name, maybe even to provide people to fight wars.

There, too, is always the motherland, say in the former USSR, which needs children for various things.

Just as Mao needed children to build levies by digging with spoons, if required,

Another apocryphal tale, and Mao or Zhou never said that.

This is a very important thing to get straight:

Do we have the right to father a child, or bear a child into this world?

And often ones hell on earth is not brought about by any personal decision or lack of decision, or lack of fortitude, or depravity.

It just happens, because life is risk.

(Am I a native speaker of English?, you ask. Yes, sometimes I wonder myself. You decide.)

First let me say that it is good that you are thinking about this things

Of course we have the right to have children

This is empirical, it is our purpose

it is the only right that exists,

everything else derives it's self from that right, or purpose

You cant ask them if they want to be born, because they are not born yet, Don't you think it would be some what to arrogant for you to decide their right to exist?

Should you not let them make that choice them selves?

The question has being asked

What came first? the egg or the chicken?

The answer is obvious

The egg, the chicken is simply the egg's idea of making an other egg

and that;s all you are my friend, and egg trying to make an other egg

Any egg that abandons that simple proposition is simply an ex-egg

or what some might say egg drop soup alt=laugh.png pagespeed_url_hash=4020895376 width=20 height=20>

"You cant ask them if they want to be born, because they are not born yet, Don't you think it would be some what to arrogant for you to decide their right to exist?

Should you not let them make that choice them selves?"

So what you are suggesting is that everyone has a child or two and then when those children realise that it isn't worth it, they commit suicide?

Boy, you all need some antidepressants ,

Not every one has to procreate, in fact after seeing some of them and reading some of these post replies, I highly recommend that they don.t

But some of as have to

What do you suggest?

we end the human specie thru attrition, because some of us are not having a good time here?

Any way , this thread is About religion and If you believe or not

I said all I want to say on the subject of procreation .

Personally I am all for it. I have contributed a beautiful, and smart daughter ,

and in case I want to contribute more, I practice with my wife every chance I get

[itsrebel]

In the first quote do you or do you not lay responsibility on Gods feet?

On the second quote, do you or do you not say

"I feel personally" from that statement should not then discern that what you state is your personal feeling?

Did you or did you not say " to pure hell on earth in some cases" and isn't this the earth you live in?

Fro the last quote ,shouldn't I assume from it. that some times you wish you were never born?

First, thank you for reading what I wrote, and I do feel strongly about this particular subject, the right of one to make the decision for another, whether or not he or she should be committed to living on earth for up to 100 years, a very long time.

Regarding what you quoted, I do not say that there is a god, but IF there is no god then we still cannot in all good conscience take responsibility to decide for another that he or she will be forced to live life in this world. This is why I have never made such a decision, and why I could not feel right about deciding to have children. What could I say to my children if they decided that life was not as good as I had always thought it to be? I would have nothing to justify my decision to have children.

If there is a god, and if one sincerely believes in this god, then one can follow the teachings of a god, and then avoid taking responsibility for having children. If the god asked that man go forth and procreate, for example, then that is what must be done. If the crappola hit the fan, if the child was hit by cancer, and had downs syndrome, and also had hydroencephalitis when abortion therapy was forbidden, then no one could lay this responsibility and man's feet. God did it.

We all are at risk of being condemned to live a hell on earth, witness Buchenwald or piles of skulls in Cambodia, or the lifeless limbs of of Stephen Hawking. When something like this happens to our children, then we better be able to say one of two things, god made me do it, or I was thoughtless and did not fully understand the potential ramifications of my actions in the sack.

If you like risk, then you will love this life.

I do not enjoy risk for risk's sake,

But some others enjoy dying on Everest while their family waits at home.

I may argue two sides of the issue, yes, but that is because this subject is not that easily answered, whether or not we even have the right to have children.

I believe that we do not have that right.

And in traditional societies, most people would say that they have an obligation to have children to work on the farm, and to care for their parents, and to pass on the family name, maybe even to provide people to fight wars.

There, too, is always the motherland, say in the former USSR, which needs children for various things.

Just as Mao needed children to build levies by digging with spoons, if required,

Another apocryphal tale, and Mao or Zhou never said that.

This is a very important thing to get straight:

Do we have the right to father a child, or bear a child into this world?

And often ones hell on earth is not brought about by any personal decision or lack of decision, or lack of fortitude, or depravity.

It just happens, because life is risk.

(Am I a native speaker of English?, you ask. Yes, sometimes I wonder myself. You decide.)

First let me say that it is good that you are thinking about this things

Of course we have the right to have children

This is empirical, it is our purpose

it is the only right that exists,

everything else derives it's self from that right, or purpose

You cant ask them if they want to be born, because they are not born yet, Don't you think it would be some what to arrogant for you to decide their right to exist?

Should you not let them make that choice them selves?

The question has being asked

What came first? the egg or the chicken?

The answer is obvious

The egg, the chicken is simply the egg's idea of making an other egg

and that;s all you are my friend, and egg trying to make an other egg

Any egg that abandons that simple proposition is simply an ex-egg

or what some might say egg drop soup alt=laugh.png pagespeed_url_hash=4020895376 width=20 height=20>

"You cant ask them if they want to be born, because they are not born yet, Don't you think it would be some what to arrogant for you to decide their right to exist?

Should you not let them make that choice them selves?"

So what you are suggesting is that everyone has a child or two and then when those children realise that it isn't worth it, they commit suicide?

Boy, you all need some antidepressants ,

Not every one has to procreate, in fact after seeing some of them and reading some of these post replies, I highly recommend that they don.t alt=laugh.png pagespeed_url_hash=4020895376 width=20 height=20>

But some of as have to

What do you suggest?

we end the human specie thru attrition, because some of us are not having a good time here?

Any way , this thread is About religion and If you believe or not

I said all I want to say on the subject of procreation .

Personally I am all for it. I have contributed a beautiful, and smart daughter ,

and in case I want to contribute more, I practice with my wife every chance I get alt=laugh.png pagespeed_url_hash=4020895376 width=20 height=20>

You also said that "we have the right to have children" -- so your recommendation does not mean anything.

Also, as I understand, this thread was about god (not religion) and if you believe in it or not.

For the record, I don't believe in god and I don't think it should be a right to have children. I am happy for you that your have contributed a beautiful and smart daughter, but I would still like to hear from her what she thinks.

[notmyself]

Yep, which of the following is correct IF you are a non Christian.

I have a God and he is my master

I have a god and he is my master

Most people would choose the former which would be incorrect but not all. If you go back and read all the posts there have been a number of members who have used the 'G' and 'g' perfectly.

Not the best example because (in theory) you could be a non Christian yet consider the Christian god (note not capitalized because it refers to the concept of a god) to be your god. That in itself would be rather odd and most likely off topic.

Why would you say "Yep" to that information regarding English language usage of capital letters which contradicted what you had just said and then proceed to disagree with it?

I write God all the time because it is the rule that one follows to represent something that is unique (to a varying degree). The same way I write Canada or John! There is nothing christian or holy regarding those names but I (and others) just follow the rules of the English language.

Your assertion that someone is a christian because they follow the rules of the English language is demonstrably wrong.

The rule is true in exactly the same way that the rule 'i' after 'e' except before 'c' is.

[MrGaoMungGawn]

Boy, you all need some antidepressants ,

Antidepressants can't help when you are not depressed, and only a bit down sounding when you just report on reality.

For reality, if you want to solve that, then you need something like a real depressant - Lao, alcohol.

I can imagine how blessed you truly are with a smart daughter, and there really is nothing more that you could reasonably ask for.

But I am not thinking about your happiness, because this was your decision that you made.

I am concerned with her happiness, given what we know about the present state of the world.

And I an not here to talk about that.

The subject is whether we believe in god, or not.

I am saying that if we do not, then what the implications would be.

If there is a god, then it is not up to us to decide whether or not to have children,

Because then i suppose we must.

And, where do we go from here?

Since i do not believe in god,

Then i think that the only good option is to hope there is some evolutionary bridge to follow,

From gray mush to computer hardware.

Then god can be as big as we want him,

And as insignificant as he is.

Do you think that future computers will have faith in god?

I don't think they will have faith in god to do the right thing, for sure.

[CryWolf]

I beiieve in my self.. Accational doubs are thoroughly worked thru with my friend. He is a Captain goes by then name of Morgan

Edited January 11, 2014 by CryWolf