British teachers please stop correcting my American daughter

[zeichen]

First, I want to state that though I am originally from the US, I have been teaching abroad for the majority of my life. I totally love schools that have various teachers and expose students to the myriad of accents and vernaculars of English. I often utilize British spelling, and vocabulary with students that are more familiar with it. When I teach, I don't ever tell students to change spelling or grammar points when they are consistent.

I want to make it clear that this is not an Anti British English post. What is chapping my ass though is my 4 year old daughter came home from school recently arguing with me about the ABC song. We sing it together all of the time. She goes to a Thai school but has a native teacher 2 times a week for about 30 minutes. You wouldn't think that little exposure would have much influence but my daughter now insists on pronouncing ZEEE, ZED. I told her that in our family we say Zee. She went to school and sang the ABC song with Zee and her teacher scolded her about how the proper way was to say Zed. My daughter said "in my family we say Z" Her teacher then really let her have it.

I just don't get it how teachers could willing want to change someone's accent or way of communicating. Really chapps my ass.

I really don't want to confront the teacher but it just drives me nuts that people in such a position of influence doesn't realize how serious their power is.

[Thai at Heart]

Why the hell does it matter?

Brits say zed, Americans say zee.

Is it really that important? But as for a missing I and u in aluminum and color. Now that is a really vital feature that demands the definition of an apparently distinct language called American English.

[I Like Thai]

It's Zed, not Zeeeeeeeee

[mogandave]

The teacher has to have everyone pronouncing it the same way. Don't punish your daughter because you'r annoyed.

[pastafarian]

You say 'Her teacher then really let her have it.'

What do you mean? And how do you know what happened?

[mogandave]

can we please cal it a tally-whaker!

[mogandave]

I love that aluminininininininum

[inutil]

Anyone who teaches in asia realises that britannia doesnt rule the waves... unless its a school affiliated with cambridge. Those bastards are everywhere all of a sudden!

Either way, you have to make a choice. If the school is teaching British English, you teach British english. If its teaching american english, you call football, soccer so as not to confuse your poor students. You can teach them both of course, thats fine. But you could also teach your physics students that newtonian physics isnt in fact universal and that theres at least 10 dimensions. One of my mates, i remember quit his physics a-level many moons ago because of this. He said that every week theyd say "you know that shit we taught you last week... sorry, we didnt really mean it, thats only part of the truth which is not really any of the truth. but i swear, THIS WEEK youre going to learn the truth!" After about 6 weeks of this, he gave up.

My point is that ist just easier to lie a little sometimes. As a parent of course you can enjoy explicating the differences between british and american english and maybe even the way english is spoken throughout the world. It could be a fun lesson on accents if you like or about the places that english is spoken and why. Whee! lots you can do that doesnt dictate one or the other as the universal and sole truth. 00

Edited January 5, 2014 by inutil

[beano2274]

The whole point is the teacher wants everyone to say the letters the same, if you want to teach your daughter the American style do it at home, in school she is taught British English like her school mates.

[angsta]

You say 'Her teacher then really let her have it.'

What do you mean? And how do you know what happened?

This is exactly what I was going to write. She's 4? The teacher probably just wants to help her not sound stupid and learn correct pronunciation. You're not in Kansas anymore...

[Costas2008]

You are all wrong.........it's Zeta

[Shancloudy]

Just tell to your daughter that Zed is British English and Zee is American English. I guess your daughter is smart like you to understand the different between the British and American English.

[aidenai]

Brits say zed, Americans say zee.

Teachers from the Philippines say 'seeeht'.

[Satcommlee]

Zee,Zed what's the difference? My 3 year old calls it Zebra! I assume this is not a 1 to 1 teaching session so should she correct the other 20 students instead?

[Somtamnication]

The idiot teacher should have explained to her that both are correct, but in the classroom, please use his version.

[simon43]

I'm a British teacher. Both Zee and Zed are absolutely correct, as are color and colour (for the older children who are writing English). In Asia, some children have learn British English, some have learnt US English etc. some have British parents, sone have US parents, some have parents of other nationalities who teach their children to speaK British English, US English or whatever.

The teacher was wrong to insist that your daughter says Zed for the letter z. The importance is to teach about diversity in people, language, spelling etc. It is easy even for young children to understand that some letters and words are pronounced or written differently in the same language.

The teacher may run into problems by 'denying' zee because many childrens' songs on YouTube (especially the most popular ABC songs) are produced by Americans, with Zee, not Zed.

The only clarifications that need to be made for older children who write English is not to mix British and US spelling.

'Please measure 1 meter from the center of the line' is OK

'Please measure 1 metre from the centre of the line' is OK

'Please measure 1 meter from the centre of the line' is not OK!

Simon

PS - Just to add a comment that I teach kids from 3 years and up in Myanmar. They have no problems at all to understand zee and zed. The 7/8 year olds enjoy spelling games to correctly write common words in US and British English, as well as knowing different words for the same object (eg nappy and diaper).

Your daughter's teacher sounds somewhat inexperienced in teaching 'multicultural' classes, and is underestimating the learning abilities of his/her students

Edited January 6, 2014 by simon43

[sirchai]

I'm neither American. nor British, but I'm using "ZED" to make a difference in the sound of Z, as it's very similar to the C sound..

If he tells the kids that both, Zee and Zed, are okay, where's the problem? -

Edited January 6, 2014 by sirchai

[simon43]

All the alphabet videos that I use say 'zee'. (I don't use the British videos because they are simply too 'yucky iccky sweet' - the US videos with rap and tecno music are much more popular with the kids).

Simon

[mmh8]

If you want your child to learn american send them to an american class. That simple, don't go for English.

[keddy]

Let's call the whole thing off or should that be, let's call the whole thang off.

[bundoi]

Dear Z, may I suggest you recommend that your daughter's teacher use a different song, perhaps "Let's Call the Whole Thing Off" - you know, the one about bananas and pa/pyjamas.

Having been "blessed" with the canonical RP accent there's no way I'm going to tolerate foreign accents like Scouse or Geordie, never mind foreign accents from overseas.

[Langsuan Man]

Simple, home school the kid and all your problems are over, Unbelievable what people whine about here

[Scott]

Whatever book I am using is the one that is the standard for the time. I teach all children that either Zee or Zed is correct, but we will use one. I also use the spelling of the book, so if it is British based and has the 'u's' then that is what I use. If it's American based and omits them, then that is what I use.

I don't mark it wrong if the students use the one not used by the book, but I do correct it.

Your daughter will not suffer from using the British version. It's good for them to exposed to both.

[mikebike]

What a weird hang-up. Growing up in Canada in the 60s-70s we were taught british english yet massively exposed to american english (and taught Parisian french - little resemblance to patois Quebecois!)... really not a problem. Some of my friends use zed, some zee... Myself - I'll intermix tyre/tire, colour/color, and the rest at a whim. Never not been understood or even questioned on it. Ultimately the child is going to use whatever format they are comfortable with - don't micro manage.

Edited January 6, 2014 by mikebike

[cooked]

Wait until you teach your child at home and then gets told that she is saying it wrong at school. I mean, you do take the time to teach her, don't you?

[zeichen]

I guess my point is that my daughter is an American. So correcting a native English speaking American for saying Zee instead of Zed is pretty silly. I do understand having uniformity in a class but at the same time, a teacher singling out a student for not pronouncing something the same way as a teacher is a little silly. When I teach, I state how I pronounce things but if student pronounce, spell or use grammar that is from a different vernacular, I don't correct them.

When my daughter comes home in tears because she doesn't want to be an American anymore, it is pretty hard.

I spend hours a day with my daughter and find it scary in just 6 months with only 1 hour a week, can create such a serious transformation.

As for American vs. British school. I did write that she goes to a Thai school. Also she is 4 so trying to force a foreign accent on a student is pretty rigid.

We are not talking about Thai students who have no background in English, we are talking about children that are raised in an English speaking household.

I would never in my life correct a British accented child to change. I would not make them feel different. I would only correct them if they used words that weren't accepted either way.

As for how I know what the teacher does. I don't always trust everything my daughter says but when she comes home in tears and screams about wanting to go to school, I took that as a sign. Most 4 year olds especially ones that love social interaction tend to like school. My wife sometimes observes the class.

Teachers shouldn't be raising their voices and yelling at 3-4 year olds period, let alone for not singing the ending of a song the same as others.

[zeichen]

FYI the teacher is a woman not a man.

"Your daughter will not suffer from using the British version. It's good for them to exposed to both."

exposed is not what I said. I said that she was being corrected by her teacher telling her not to pronounce things that way.

I told my daughter that is how British people talk like our friend Uncle Dave. I just said that in our house we use Zee and that is how we sing the song. She is more afraid of getting yelled at by the teacher than doing what we normally do.

With only 1 hour a week instruction.

My point overall is more about the serious impact of how we run a class and influence children in general.

Not anything against the British pronunciation or to be a accent bashing thread.

Just as teachers it is important to be neutral and supportive rather than the teacher's micro-managing.

[siampolee]

As both a parent and a teacher of good old English stock I have never given a thought as to how a child uses the language, whatever the text book says that's the way we go.

Spelling. I don't worry as to whether it is U.K. or American English it's all about communicating.

Personally my view is that the O.P is somewhat wanting as both a teacher and a parent.

Bigotry, along with spelling, spoken language and grammar Nazi's are a hindrance to a child learning English or any other subject for that matter.

[bundoi]

I guess my point is that my daughter is an American. So correcting a native English speaking American for saying Zee instead of Zed is pretty silly. I do understand having uniformity in a class but at the same time, a teacher singling out a student for not pronouncing something the same way as a teacher is a little silly. When I teach, I state how I pronounce things but if student pronounce, spell or use grammar that is from a different vernacular, I don't correct them.

When my daughter comes home in tears because she doesn't want to be an American anymore, it is pretty hard.

I spend hours a day with my daughter and find it scary in just 6 months with only 1 hour a week, can create such a serious transformation.

As for American vs. British school. I did write that she goes to a Thai school. Also she is 4 so trying to force a foreign accent on a student is pretty rigid.

We are not talking about Thai students who have no background in English, we are talking about children that are raised in an English speaking household.

I would never in my life correct a British accented child to change. I would not make them feel different. I would only correct them if they used words that weren't accepted either way.

As for how I know what the teacher does. I don't always trust everything my daughter says but when she comes home in tears and screams about wanting to go to school, I took that as a sign. Most 4 year olds especially ones that love social interaction tend to like school. My wife sometimes observes the class.

Teachers shouldn't be raising their voices and yelling at 3-4 year olds period, let alone for not singing the ending of a song the same as others.

If you're serious here Z then I do sympathise with you, and your daughter; no 4 year old child should be humiliated by a teacher in that way, and if this happened to my child I would have no hesitation whatsoever in making a direct intervention with the teacher. Even if the teacher insists on a particular pronunciation, s/he shouldn't be reducing the child to tears.

I think your OP does actually hint at a very interesting issue about accent in general. I have several times on this forum felt fairly disgusted by the way non-NES teachers have been vilified for not having an NES accent - as if such a thing exists! In England alone there is an unbelievable range of accents; when you add in the UK as a whole and all the other NES countries and their local internal variations, then to speak of an NES accent is just silly. My own accent has changed dramatically 4 or 5 times throughout my life. To me it's about making sure that all the sounds that should be heard are heard, ie diction or enunciation, with a fair amount of leeway as to the shape of the sound itself. Specifically with spelling, if an issue arises I just make the students aware of the differences; but obviously that would be with an older group, not with 4 year olds, most of whose vocab would be spelt the same (I hope nobody's going to spend time racking their brains to find a rare difference to dis(respect) me on this ;-) )

Edited January 6, 2014 by bundoi

[Thai at Heart]

I guess my point is that my daughter is an American. So correcting a native English speaking American for saying Zee instead of Zed is pretty silly. I do understand having uniformity in a class but at the same time, a teacher singling out a student for not pronouncing something the same way as a teacher is a little silly. When I teach, I state how I pronounce things but if student pronounce, spell or use grammar that is from a different vernacular, I don't correct them.

When my daughter comes home in tears because she doesn't want to be an American anymore, it is pretty hard.

I spend hours a day with my daughter and find it scary in just 6 months with only 1 hour a week, can create such a serious transformation.

As for American vs. British school. I did write that she goes to a Thai school. Also she is 4 so trying to force a foreign accent on a student is pretty rigid.

We are not talking about Thai students who have no background in English, we are talking about children that are raised in an English speaking household.

I would never in my life correct a British accented child to change. I would not make them feel different. I would only correct them if they used words that weren't accepted either way.

As for how I know what the teacher does. I don't always trust everything my daughter says but when she comes home in tears and screams about wanting to go to school, I took that as a sign. Most 4 year olds especially ones that love social interaction tend to like school. My wife sometimes observes the class.

Teachers shouldn't be raising their voices and yelling at 3-4 year olds period, let alone for not singing the ending of a song the same as others.

My kids went through bilingual school with basically an experience the other way around.

The Americans were enforcing what you were mentioning the other way around which I found rather funny.

I told my kids to say to the teachers that American English was created by Microsoft and that there is only one English.

One American teacher took it quite seriously which I found very pathetic.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Thai at Heart