Customs Mistake

[ZEAK]

The other day UPS comes to my door with a package. It was from my mother in Canada and since it is my birthday in a few days I suspect it to be a gift. However, the customs are asking that I pay duty on it, to the tune of 618 Baht. I thought this to be steep for a few reasons, mainly that I did not buy anything and that it is a gift. And that the stated value on the invoice says 1000 Baht. So, UPS took it back since I refused to pay and now they are saying that they are going to send it back to Canada. This is very frustrating since there is a birthday card inside if they would care to open it. I am going to go down to the UPS depot in CM tomorrow to see what can be done. What bothers me is that someone made a mistake but no one seems to want to sort it out, just send it back is the easy way out.

I have never had a problem like this before and my family have sent many packages and I have also ordered things from overseas companies without issue. Has something changed? Has anyone else had any similar experiences? Is there any recourse that I can take?

This has now put me on gard for any further mailings as I would hate to see the duty on something that I actually did purchase!

Any comments?

[jdinasia]

The other day UPS comes to my door with a package. It was from my mother in Canada and since it is my birthday in a few days I suspect it to be a gift. However, the customs are asking that I pay duty on it, to the tune of 618 Baht. I thought this to be steep for a few reasons, mainly that I did not buy anything and that it is a gift. And that the stated value on the invoice says 1000 Baht. So, UPS took it back since I refused to pay and now they are saying that they are going to send it back to Canada. This is very frustrating since there is a birthday card inside if they would care to open it. I am going to go down to the UPS depot in CM tomorrow to see what can be done. What bothers me is that someone made a mistake but no one seems to want to sort it out, just send it back is the easy way out.

I have never had a problem like this before and my family have sent many packages and I have also ordered things from overseas companies without issue. Has something changed? Has anyone else had any similar experiences? Is there any recourse that I can take?

This has now put me on gard for any further mailings as I would hate to see the duty on something that I actually did purchase!

Any comments?

don't use UPS ... use airmail

I got hit by FedEx for 3700 baht on something sent to me 3 day from the US ... had some jeans and chocolate and deoodernt in it ... got spanked by Customs and they tried to charge me delivery .... oh well ...

now ... USED stuff has no duty .... so have your family wash any clothes ... unpackage other gifts (don't list deoderantcosmetics/etc)

[Sheryl]

UPS and FedEx are HOPELESS at dealing with custms and I have been overcharged many times as well as subject to utterly unnecessary license requirements. Regular airmail is indeed the best route. Hiowever, even with that, I have sometimes been overcharged. And, I have had problems with unnecessary licenses and long delays in clearance - I'll spare you the most recent horror story but uit was a 6 month fiasco. Partly my fault because I tried to avoid having to go down to customs myself.

Frankly, I have had so many problems that I jsut count my blessings if something actually arrives. I do note that there seems to be no rhyme and reason to the duty applied. or example, I regulalry get DVDs from amazon.com via normal mail. The same declared vaklue gets entirely different duty at different times and sometyimes none at all. Go figure.

However I do agree that 600 baht for a declared value of 1000 is ridiculous. Was the nature of the contents declared? Just "gift" won't always work, it is better to list what in very generakl terms becayuse different rates are applied to different items.

Anyhow you have 2 options if you want tyo get it - pay up or go down to customs yourself. The latter will take a fair amount of time and not be fun but probably succeed -- you open the package in front of them, they see what it is and assess the duty accordingly. Do it fast though because they'll return it to the main customs post office in bangkok and you'll then be faced with not only a long trip but truly an inner circle of hel_l. (I haven't dealt with customs in CM but it's bound to be better than in BKK).

[ColPyat]

Don't fight the losing battle. It does not matter if you are right or wrong.

Going to UPS will not make a difference as they do not decide over the customs fees. Pay, and use airmail the next time. When you get something sent have a much smaller worth declared by the sender, if possible.

The custom fees are completely arbitrary, i pay out of ten parcels for one. And if i pay, then there simply is no recognisable logic behind the fees - i have paid for exactly the same items completely different amounts ranging from close to nothing up to nearly the same declared value as the item.

There is nothing you can do about it, so, you will have to learn to live with it it.

[ZEAK]

Wow. At least I am not alone in my frustration. The lady I spoke to on the phone from UPS in CM said she would call customs and see what can be done. I dont have high hopes though. The item was listed as a figurine and valued at $30 CND, or 1000 Baht. So, I am going to try and talk to my mother to see if if is worth paying the duty on it or just let them send it back. This is kinda a moral issue with me, I would like to stand my ground because I really have a problem with being ripped off. I can not and will not just bend over and take it.

Like wise, I have ordered hundreds of dollars of Kava from the states before, and books from Amazon and nothing. Notta. I guess the piper is looking to collect all at once now. Still a bunch of BS if you ask me. Will find out tomorrow. Thanks for the feed back.

I will try to be Jai yen, really, I will.

Edited May 17, 2006 by ZEAK

[qualtrough]

I will second (or third or fourth?) the recommendation to use airmail. I frequently have small packages and large envelopes sent from the US by Priority Mail, which usually arrives within 5-6 days. Only been hit for duty one time, and that was a pretty large box full of what may have appeared valuable to customs.

UPS, Fedex, hopeless. Fedex could not find my house about four times in a row. Never called even though number was on the airbill. Turns out the address was missing one line that is not really necessary. Never occured to them to check with the Post office either. That is what you get for the big fees. Not sure about DHL. I use them outbound and they have been good. Although results may vary by location in Thailand, I have never had a problem using the mail either way--knock on wood!

[jdinasia]

Oh ... there is a good chance that if the duty is NOT paid that the contents will just be "destroyed" and not sent back

[Gumballl]

Oh ... there is a good chance that if the duty is NOT paid that the contents will just be "destroyed" and not sent back

Destroyed... not a chance. If the Thai official cannot get its duty tax, the he/she will take it home and either keep it, re-gift it, or sell it. A free market economy... you gotta love it!

[jdinasia]

ummmm duh .... note the ""'s

[Crossy]

I'll add one other point to the 'use airmail' suggestion.

If at all possible have your letters / packages addressed in Thai. Most of my stuff from the UK is forwarded on by my parents, I've sent them my address in Thai (as a jpeg) which Dad uses to make sticky labels.

The only problem we've had was persuading the nice lady at the country post office that three lines of heiroglyphics with the word 'Thailand' at the bottom was an address

[simcity]

mail is not secure as well ! i never got the two polo teeshirt sent to me .

i get everything send to my home in australia , and once a year i do a run there .

[barryofthailand]

OK Here's the trick. First of all do not use UPS. Either use mail or FED EX. On the bill of laiding write for personal use only. Their is no customs duty on personal use items. I've had contact lenses shipped Fed Ex and regular mail and never got charged a customs duty.

Barry

[chanchao]

A this is what we call Customs Roulette.. Sometimes you pay, sometimes you don't. And they say gambling is illegal in Thailand, ha, just send something from abroad, Rien Ne Va Plus.

And indeed, it's all in what you write or don't write in the description box, though this merely reduces the chances of customs hassle, they can and do whatever they feel like on the day it seems.

Tell your mum to never ever list a value of something. And if something actually has value it should not be sent by mail/courier anyway. Write stuff like "GIFT FOR PERSONAL USE - NO COMMERCIAL VALUE" and write a big fat zero in the value box.

And I've heard Fed Ex horror stories just the same. If I send something courier then I make it EMS. (Postal courier service) But really just airmail for a 20-30 dollar trinket is just fine.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[jdinasia]

ummm I think the exemption of "personal use" is for things you bring into the country with you .... <if not the one seat motorcycle I am having sent in ......>

[ZEAK]

Well, now UPS says that customs will let me have it if I pay 450 Baht. Still, no good. I should not have to pay a single stung as it is a gift. I just sent a few emails to the various UPS headquarters and to customs in BKK. There is no customs depot here in CM so I can not go down there. Man, what a load of HS.

I do feel like I am fighting a loosing battle. Wonder if that is the plan, get the stress levels high so that the farung just gives in and coughs up the dosh. I tell my Thia girlfriend that it is not always easy to be a farung here, double standards alot of the times. Discrimination that would not be allowed in most countries. Maybe its time I take a break from Thailand and go back to Canada for a holiday. But I know that the price of fuel will send my scampering back to Asia! What to do.

[chanchao]

> Well, now UPS says that customs will let me have it if I

> pay 450 Baht. Still, no good. I should not have to pay

> a single stung as it is a gift.

Ok, this is where you say "Ok, This is Thailand, I got somewhat of a reward for making a fuss, mai pen rai. And paying US$ 10 and being able to say "Wow, thanks mum!" is better than dissappointing her by having the thing go return or have it desttroyed."

Yes it's a gift, but it's not indicated as such. Cut your losses and live and fight another day. It's not the end of the world.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[ZEAK]

> Well, now UPS says that customs will let me have it if I

> pay 450 Baht. Still, no good. I should not have to pay

> a single stung as it is a gift.

Ok, this is where you say "Ok, This is Thailand, I got somewhat of a reward for making a fuss, mai pen rai. And paying US$ 10 and being able to say "Wow, thanks mum!" is better than dissappointing her by having the thing go return or have it desttroyed."

Yes it's a gift, but it's not indicated as such. Cut your losses and live and fight another day. It's not the end of the world.

Cheers,

Chanchao

Was just in the shower thinking the same thing Chanchao. Is it really worth the trouble? Is the dollar amount worth the amount of stress that this episode is starting to give me?

The lady at UPS that is dealing with customs for me says it is a 30% import tax then another 7 % VAT. But that still only comes to 370 Baht. So where did the original 618 Baht come from? Sighhh. I said that I would be happy to pay it, IF I had actually imported something. She understands and is trying to do what she can.

I will leave it at that and wait to hear back from her. Thanks for your input.

[ZEAK]

Unreal, just got off the phone with UPS lady, she says now I only have to pay 300 Baht. I really wanted to bang my head against the wall. What is this, a sliding scale of dupe the farung??

But...300 Baht is better than 618 Baht. This is like the price is right, and I took it. She said last chance. I feel dirty, but the dirt won't come off. I have been had. Once again, I stand by my previous statment of "what a bunch of HS"! But, I will fold and admitt defeat.

THIS IS FOR THE CUSTOMS OFFICIALS-

TUM DEE DAI DEE, TUM CHUA DAI CHUA!

Stick a fork in me.....I'm done!

[Sheryl]

One part of your problem may have been having the value listed in CDN. Thai customs invariably reads that as US dollars, has happened to me before. So to them the value was closer to 1200 Baht. I had so much trouble with this that I stopped ordering things from companies based in Canada, as I couldn't persuade them to label value in USD and Customs could not or would not understand that not all dollars are US.

One other problem may have been the term "figurine", I doubt they understood it and in my experience they look for exact wording on the list of tariffs. "Small (ceramic, plastic or whatever) statue" would have been better.

I'm not sure that it is the case that just because something is a gift there is no customs duty. Certainly that is not true for an unlimited value of goods, if at all.

At this point, if I were you I'd just pay up. Keeping in mind that they do not comprehend Canadian dollars and thus think this had a declared value of 1200 Baht (or whatever the current exchange rate equals, they are applying a duty of about 37 - 38%, which is a lot better than what they started with, and unless you are prepared to go to customs yourself, you're not going to get it any lower.

[baboon]

I always use the normal mail from the U.K.and have only been taxed once-a whopping 7 baht for a book.

[xbusman]

I need to throw a few satang in here. First of all, it makes no differance if something is a gift, purchased or just plain stolen, customs does not care. There is an import duty to be paid on items being imported. The only exception (generally) is commercial samples and I have had plenty of arguments over that.

Honestly, I see their side, these diamonds are gifts/commercial samples/personal goods, whatever, and I dont want to pay.... If you were a customs agent would you buy that? Yeah right. Those eleven cars you want in the can are gifts from your mom....

They dont care, their job is to restrict entry, protecting local markets and raising revenue for the government as well as keep harmful things out of the country.

Yes, the Thai customs represents the culmination of professional corruption and like other systems in Thailand makes no sense to the way the western world operates, but guess what..... Pay the bill Don Quixote and write mum a big thank you note.

You accidently did the right thing and in fact, the only reasonable thing to do. You waited them out and got a few lower offers. My experience has taught me that you can usually get three offers, take the third or your goods go back at Mums expense. Use the mail next time and understand that your chances are better but everything that comes into Thailand falls into the hands of customs, you just have better chances with mail.

Pay the bill and have a happy birthday!

[Sheryl]

I need to throw a few satang in here. First of all, it makes no differance if something is a gift, purchased or just plain stolen, customs does not care. There is an import duty to be paid on items being imported.

Thanks for confirming that, I thought so but wasn't sure.

BTW, Customs has a website in English which gives the tariff rates by category for various items. This is helpful in that 1) yiou can see how they list categories and advise people to label accordingly (if they don't understand what a thing is, you may get an unnecessarily large charge or --- believe me, far worse -- be called down to customs to open it in front of them and explain. And, 2) you can use it to figure out if you are being overcharged and if so, by how much.

If you find that you are clearly being overcharged, you can pursue the matter but my advice is to bother only if it's really a big difference, because pursuing the matter will require a trip to customs by you or somone else -- and as I think we've all agreed, there are no known courier services in Thailand that are any good at it.

[Noel]

Click on The Customs Department of the Kingdom of Thailand

[chingching]

This is kinda a moral issue with me, I would like to stand my ground because I really have a problem with being ripped off. I can not and will not just bend over and take it.

Like wise, I have ordered hundreds of dollars of Kava from the states before, and books from Amazon and nothing. Notta. I guess the piper is looking to collect all at once now. Still a bunch of BS if you ask me. Will find out tomorrow. Thanks for the feed back.

I will try to be Jai yen, really, I will.

Why not just face the fact that you are a cheapskate.? You say it is a MORAL issue with you, yet where were your MORALS when as you admit, you ordered 100's of dollars and paid NADA. Why didn't you take your package down to customs then and say , "hi i think u made a mistake, and I owe you some money". You have "morals" when yr losing money, you have no morals when ur making money.

[slackula]

Another vote for avoiding UPS at all costs from me. I have had horrible experiences with them and will NEVER use them again.

I'd pay the 300 baht, enjoy the gift and send some nice letters to UPS here and ask your mother to do the same in Canada.

[jdinasia]

Well, now UPS says that customs will let me have it if I pay 450 Baht. Still, no good. I should not have to pay a single stung as it is a gift. I just sent a few emails to the various UPS headquarters and to customs in BKK. There is no customs depot here in CM so I can not go down there. Man, what a load of HS.

I do feel like I am fighting a loosing battle. Wonder if that is the plan, get the stress levels high so that the farung just gives in and coughs up the dosh. I tell my Thia girlfriend that it is not always easy to be a farung here, double standards alot of the times. Discrimination that would not be allowed in most countries. Maybe its time I take a break from Thailand and go back to Canada for a holiday. But I know that the price of fuel will send my scampering back to Asia! What to do.

as noted above this post originally ... the expemption on gifts and personal use does NOT exist on stuff shipped in ...

BUT ... how did it go for you at customs?

[Minburi]

It is not UPS or fedex that names the duty on an item it is customs.

I have shipped with both and a number of times there was no duty and then out of the blue for a declared item of a value of 900 baht..Some photos and such I got a 700 baht duty. I would say that out of 20-22 times I have been shipped things I have been dinged 2 times. All with a similar value and not once opened. The duty was 700 baht on one and 720 baht on the other. Not really sure why its really up to the customs officer to impose a duty.

[Johpa]

I am glad someone noted that an item marked as a gift is irrelevent to customs people. But more importantly, customs duties, regardless of country, is a crap shoot. I have both imported and exported goods and long ago began to understand that no where, in no country, is there any logic to customs assessments. Sometimes the charges seem high and other times they seem quite low. One best just average the costs out over time.

[bob/nyc]

There is no simple solution as to which delivery service is best. I personally shipped two boxes via USPS, from NYC to my address in Bangkok, marked personal household goods. Airmail was twice the cost of land so I shipped land. It was suppose to be 6-8 weeks. Well one box arrived in about 7 weeks and the other, well lets just say its still on the way, and it is 5 weeks later. So I think it is just a matter of luck as to whether you get the package and what customs does when it gets here.

[elkangorito]

I'll be returning to the LOS in July & was thinking of mailing my computer components to myself (motherboard, graphics card etc as I don't want to by a computer in the LOS). After reading the posts, I think I'll try to smuggling the pieces in my baggage instead of importing.

Also, I had a look at the Thai Customs website...I found it to be as clear as mud

Edited May 20, 2006 by elkangorito