What does being called a Farang mean to you? Good or bad?

[Jingthing]

How about some alternatives?

Person living with white skin in a Thai context.

Pan European Guest of the Thai people.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Jingthing

[wym]

The word itself is most likely derived from the Franks, who dominated Europe from the 6th century on - you've probably heard of Charlemagne? This of course is not equivalent to "French", but definitely related, there was no "French" language or nation until many centuries later, long after the Franks were involved in conquest and crusades stretching into the territories where Pali and Sanskrit developed, and many many languages in the regions between there and here use this word to label white people of European descent.

"Farang" is short for "Frangset".

Now look at the French word for "French" = français. And now prononce this word by Thai pronounciation rules!

Yes, that would seem to be the case.

However even though my explanation isn't "proven" it is the most widely accepted hypothesis among linguistic historians.

And it IS a proven fact that the use of that word in this part of the world (between SE Asia and Europe) was widespread many centuries before the French nation or language ever existed.

Both "farang" and "frangset" in Thai, plus the English "French" and the French "Français" all come from the same ancient root, the Dark Ages tribe the Franks.

Edited January 20, 2014 by wym

[wym]

How about some alternatives?

Person living with white skin in a Thai context.

Pan European Guest of the Thai people.

Feel free, see if it catches on. . .

[Jingthing]

How about some alternatives?

Person living with white skin in a Thai context.

Pan European Guest of the Thai people.

Feel free, see if it catches on. . .

That's great, but I am seeking more suggestions in the same vein.

Which do you like best of those two?

Perhaps

Pan European Guest of the Thai people

could be shortened to

Pan European Guest of Thailand

to the acronym --

PEGOT

???

Should the final T be pronounced or left silent as in

PEUGEOT?

In the silent T case, the pronunciation would be

PEE -- GO!!!

(easy to remember, think Belgium's Mannekin Pis, also the word evokes the sensation of RELIEF)

I definitely prefer the silent option!

Then you get a "French" touch, a tribute in a sense to the traditional word, and also so much more ... European.

Yes, I know, I get it, the "traditional" word is a word from the Thais. But why can't we make up our OWN word as a kind of response to the word from the Thais? Is there a rule that we can't? I think not!

Some weaknesses with PEGOT:

1. With the final T voiced, that might evolve as a derogatory term, as it sounds rather like another derogatory term for something else; use your imagination. However having an alternative pronunciation making it derogatory could be seen as making the word richer, more versatile, and textured.

2. Many Pegots don't agree with the idea that we are "guests" of Thailand. But the guest in the word PEGOT could be viewed literally or ironically depending on your POV on the guest controversy.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

What I was trying to show before (oops):

http://www.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/p/keep-calm-and-be-a-pegot/

Edited January 20, 2014 by Jingthing

[ultimate weapon]

if the farang can do fluent Thai beautifully, then this will somewhat put most Thai people into a dilemma whether to call her/him Thai or farang.

No matter how perfectly a person speaks Thai (the language) they will never BE Thai (the people). Even if Bill Heinecke, an American who grew up in Thailand, abandoned his American passport and became a Thai citizen billionaire‎ would never be anything but a farang to Thais. And I'd be willing to bet half of my fortune against half of his that he doesn't mind it when they refer to him as that.

NOTE - I am NOT suggesting that if it bothers you should just let it go if people that should know your name continue to CALL YOU farang, as in "hey farang" unless of course loved ones are teasing you. Just keep reminding them - calmly - and most of them will remember that you have that strange need for them to use your name and they should comply.

In general the term Farang/Falang doesn't worry me in the least , I use it myself .

I am irritated when very young children shout Falang at me as if to insult .

That's your inference, not their intention, absolutely certain of that. In more remote locations it may be equivalent to when a moose (rarely seen in these parts) came through town, everyone was shouting "moose moose!" in surprise and joy. In other places it might mean "maybe he'll buy us sweets!" but they are not taunting you. Were you mercilessly teased in school as a child?

Must be sad being referred to as that thing. A farang you know a thing. Well you cannot have it both ways. You know it gets you places being a farang in thailand yet you want the good but not the bad? You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[MAJIC]

Trying to figure out the core definition of "Farang" - Maybe this word is meant for people who could not speak or write Thai language in regardless of their nationality. If some expats live in Thailand too long, would they been better off by saying they are Thai-ish residents? Of course, I dont expect Thai people to understand that. In other words, most Thai people would agree that "Farang" is probably the best traditional word.

It is a lot better than words used by Farang to refer to other people in their own or other Farang countries.

Yup, I agree. Also if the farang can do fluent Thai beautifully, then this will somewhat put most Thai people into a dilemma whether to call her/him Thai or farang.

It's no Dilemma,try going to the UK and see how many of the Thai Immigrants,still refer to English people in their own Country as Farangs, common place at Parties to hear the usual Falang Falang Falang,I just love to see their faces when I point out to them that the only Farangs here, are Thai People in English peoples Country! gives them a bit of a headache,trying to work it out!

[Jingthing]

No, they're right. You're among Thais ANYWHERE, you're white, you're that word.

[wym]

It's no Dilemma,try going to the UK and see how many of the Thai Immigrants,still refer to English people in their own Country as Farangs, common place at Parties to hear the usual Falang Falang Falang,I just love to see their faces when I point out to them that the only Farangs here, are Thai People in English peoples Country! gives them a bit of a headache,trying to work it out!

No, for the umpteenth time even within just this one thread, thousands of time in the forum:

Farang does not mean "foreigner" - it refers to ethnicity, means Caucasian, white person, of European descent.

They had a headache for a different reason, trying to remain polite in the face of idiocy

[MAJIC]

No, they're right. You're among Thais ANYWHERE, you're white, you're that word.

If you don't like the word Farang then the rules change in your own Country!

[MAJIC]

It's no Dilemma,try going to the UK and see how many of the Thai Immigrants,still refer to English people in their own Country as Farangs, common place at Parties to hear the usual Falang Falang Falang,I just love to see their faces when I point out to them that the only Farangs here, are Thai People in English peoples Country! gives them a bit of a headache,trying to work it out!

No, for the umpteenth time even within just this one thread, thousands of time in the forum:

Farang does not mean "foreigner" - it refers to ethnicity, means Caucasian, white person, of European descent.

They had a headache for a different reason, trying to remain polite in the face of idiocy

Your interpretation of the word Farang is one of a handful,none of which appeal to those that have a Country and understand that Germans come from Germany,Englishmen come from England,Frenchmen come from France.............do I need to continue! the idiocy comes from those prepared to defend the ridiculous! that think it's polite to make up silly unnecessary names,for other Nationalities!

[AshRegister]

Yes is it an innocent descriptor of race, equivalent in every way to "caucasian", which is used by police and officialdom every day in farangland.

Thanks! I always thought it wasn't a particularly 'nice' term (like gaijin) but now I see its not.

And a hundred out of 10 for all the TV geniuses born knowing what farang means.

[wym]

Bizarre.

You must be familiar with the commonly used words asian, black? Nothing to do with nationality.

White man, that's all it means.

You may not like it, but most Thais could care less about differentiating between the fine distinctions, we're just farang to them.

Trying to tell them it "shouldn't" mean that, or that it in fact means something else, now you're in the UK YOU'RE the farang is just batshit.

[sirchai]

You should 'create" a T'shirt saying:? "I'm proud to eat farlang." Aeeh , wait, that could cause problems here.-

Edited January 20, 2014 by sirchai

[FiftyTwo]

If I'm an old blind fat man, feel free to call me so. If you use the terms with the intention of hurting me, that's my problem if I choose to take offense, but the fault lies with your evil intention, not the words themselves.

what if youre black.

ok to call you .........

[geriatrickid]

None of my friends except 1 has ever called me a farang or used the term in my presence. The exception worked in a mid market hotel that catered to junketeers. I have had Thais use the word in my presence, but they were not friends.

[wym]

If I'm an old blind fat man, feel free to call me so. If you use the terms with the intention of hurting me, that's my problem if I choose to take offense, but the fault lies with your evil intention, not the words themselves.

what if youre black.

ok to call you .........

It's certainly OK to call me black.

The N-word, apparently long ago in certain subcultures, and nowadays among black friends, it's used without any derogatory meaning

However in modern mainstream society it is most definitely without exception used specifically as derogatory.

Farang is the opposite, normal usage is neutral, only derogatory in specific emotional context and tone of voice, just as "white man" in English.

[Saan]

I have only been offended once and that was when my stepson referred to me as 'the falang' to his mother in front of me. It was only early days in our marriage and I don't think he meant anything untoward nor do I think he realized I would understand. He has never done it again.

[MyFriend You]

Pisses me off.............I don't call them Gooks, Slopes, or anything else but ' Kuhn Thai' - ever notice an non-thai Asian is called a 'foreigner' but a white, light skinned caucasion is a Fa-lung = pronounced with a heavy accent at the end - its a generalized racial slang. Have fun with this one boys & girls I'm on a roll today.

[Kilgore Trout]

Yes is it an innocent descriptor of race, equivalent in every way to "caucasian", which is used by police and officialdom every day in farangland.

If you associate with disrespectful people in geographic areas and industries that make their living catering to foreigners, especially those in the business of scamming them, you may well hear people use the term with tones and facial expression implying contempt.

Just like angry poor people will use "rich folk" as a pejorative.

However both from a pure linguistic POV and 99.99% of the time in Thailand, it is used meaning no disrespect at all.

Note that Thais often use such "objectifying" labels rather than names when talking about people, even in their presence and in some cases when addressing them directly - we are all familiar with "pi" and "nong", "uncle" "fat guy", "old guy" etc used in place of names.

Again this is a feature of the Thai grammar, not an indicator of disrespect. If your family members referring to you as "the farang" in their conversations bothers you, politely ask them to use their name instead. They will think you're weird, but this is only one of hundreds of ways we're weird and they're used to us being weird, but if you remind them a gazillion times, those that are invested in your not getting irritated at them may well comply with your weird wishes.

Then we come to the topic of racism. Some people feel that there shouldn't be ANY acknowledgement of race in day-to-day conversations. Well, sorry Thais are very racist as a culture, not much can be done about that. In the case of us honkeys however, we BENEFIT from that racism much more than suffer from it, often being accorded a much higher class/status than we should get in reality. Petty overcharging issues certainly pale in comparison to the general contempt offered to African/middle-Eastern/Indian people here, so stop whingeing and suck it up, that's not RACISM. Plus most of us being males are also taking advantage of their ingrained patriarchal patterns, so stop whingeing and suck it up!

Guava were apparently brought to Thailand by European traders in the 16th-17th centuries, most likely the Portuguese, so just like we call little oranges "mandarins", Thais named the fruit after us, not vice-versa.

The word itself is most likely derived from the Franks, who dominated Europe from the 6th century on - you've probably heard of Charlemagne? This of course is not equivalent to "French", but definitely related, there was no "French" language or nation until many centuries later, long after the Franks were involved in conquest and crusades stretching into the territories where Pali and Sanskrit developed, and many many languages in the regions between there and here use this word to label white people of European descent.

Of course all this is just scholarly opinion and theory, no one really knows.

But it remains a fact that linguistically the word "farang" is in itself not pejorative, any more than the word "prostitute" is. Some people may dislike the class of people labeled with the term and therefore they USE it pejoratively, but the word itself has no such meaning, the emotional connotations must be inferred by context.

And how many people do you know that don't mind being referred to as "prostitute" whether directly to their face or to others?

How do you think someone would react if when they walked in the door another person said "the prostitute just walked in the door?"

Don't think telling them that it is not a pejorative term would do you much good

[thailiketoo]

Pisses me off.............I don't call them Gooks, Slopes, or anything else but ' Kuhn Thai' - ever notice an non-thai Asian is called a 'foreigner' but a white, light skinned caucasion is a Fa-lung = pronounced with a heavy accent at the end - its a generalized racial slang. Have fun with this one boys & girls I'm on a roll today.

When ya all come to Thailand let us know. Non Thai called, Foreigner. Ya see, I was on a bus with my wife and three young women were sitting across from us dressed in little short skirts, flashing me. One had pink panties and the one on the left had purple panties and the one in the middle (my favorite actually) didn't have ......... They were women of Asian descent but not speaking Thai, a few Thai words but not really Thai. They were of Cambodian descent. My wife didn't refer to them as foreigner. She used a lot of other words, almost as bad as Septic Tank in fact but not foreigner. Nope not once did she refer to those three lovely creatures as foreigner.

[Kilgore Trout]

Then we come to the topic of racism. Some people feel that there shouldn't be ANY acknowledgement of race in day-to-day conversations. Well, sorry Thais are very racist as a culture, not much can be done about that. In the case of us honkeys however, we BENEFIT from that racism much more than suffer from it, often being accorded a much higher class/status than we should get in reality. Petty overcharging issues certainly pale in comparison to the general contempt offered to African/middle-Eastern/Indian people here, so stop whingeing and suck it up, that's not RACISM. Plus most of us being males are also taking advantage of their ingrained patriarchal patterns, so stop whingeing and suck it up!

Given so many TV members of a certain age cite "political correctness gone mad" as one of those "annoyances" they couldn't wait to leave back in the West, isn't it sickeningly hypocritical that they should expect the Thais to practice it for the sake of their petty sensitivities.

Not content with the privileges they enjoy here purely by dint of their relative wealth and skin tone, they now want the Thais to stop using "farang".

Personally, I'd encourage the Thais to use a different F-word when telling these idiots where to get off.

Farang always have a double standard to how they treat others and expect to be treated.

Get called a small silly name complains like he was a slave beaten by the kkk.

Meanwhile a thai in a farang country can get insulted or mocked or attacked by racist farangs at almost anytime and they probably don't even whine half as much as the farang here.

Can some of you explain why do you have such an attitude?

Where you have racist mind you racist names created to specifically insult a race of people like nigger for example but don't really think too much about it but take the biggest offence at the smallest thing but expect others to suck it up.

I can just imagine how the Thais would react in the US if Americans used the word "Chinaman" toward Thais in the way and with the frequency that Thais use "falang" in Thailand.

In addition; you would be berated and have respect lost by most other Americans who heard.

Most people in the US I know bend over backwards to treat foreigners just like everyone else and to make sure they feel comfortable.

[Kilgore Trout]

Yes is it an innocent descriptor of race, equivalent in every way to "caucasian", which is used by police and officialdom every day in farangland.

Thanks! I always thought it wasn't a particularly 'nice' term (like gaijin) but now I see its not.

And a hundred out of 10 for all the TV geniuses born knowing what farang means.

And how do you think a group of people....let's say a Thai, a black American, and a hispanic would react if when lining up to order food, one server said to another (in front of said group) "you serve the black, I'll get the hispanic and the Asian"?

Something tells me they would not be too amused, but perhaps where you are from is different.

[thailiketoo]

I can just imagine how the Thais would react in the US if Americans used the word "Chinaman" toward Thais in the way and with the frequency that Thais use "falang" in Thailand.

In addition; you would be berated and have respect lost by most other Americans who heard.

Most people in the US I know bend over backwards to treat foreigners just like everyone else and to make sure they feel comfortable.

This is how Americans from the South feel about people from up North; Canada NYC and so on..... (Northern tourists are called snow birds)

Edited January 21, 2014 by thailiketoo

[Jingthing]

No, they're right. You're among Thais ANYWHERE, you're white, you're that word.

If you don't like the word Farang then the rules change in your own Country!

You mean Pegotland?

[wolfmanjack]

You should 'create" a T'shirt saying:? "I'm proud to eat farlang." Aeeh , wait, that could cause problems here.-

Naw. It isn't a problem.

I was at the market with a couple of thais and when we walked by a stall selling a big pile of guava i made the comment that thai people like to eat farang very much. Everyone, including the sellers, looked at me kind of weird then burst out laughing all at once when they got the joke.

thais play the double meaning game a lot.

Even after 14 years they still laugh when my kids and I call my MIL "yai noi" since she is the yai to my kids and her nickname is noi.

By the way I asked my kids what they teach them in school what farang means and they said they call white people farang because they are white just like the inside of the guava.

Edited January 21, 2014 by wolfmanjack

[wolfmanjack]

I can just imagine how the Thais would react in the US if Americans used the word "Chinaman" toward Thais in the way and with the frequency that Thais use "falang" in Thailand.

In addition; you would be berated and have respect lost by most other Americans who heard.

Most people in the US I know bend over backwards to treat foreigners just like everyone else and to make sure they feel comfortable.

This is how Americans from the South feel about people from up North; Canada NYC and so on..... (Northern tourists are called snow birds)

Actually snow bird refers to retired people that live in the north during the summer then flock to south (usually florida) in the winter.

[thailiketoo]

This is how Americans from the South feel about people from up North; Canada NYC and so on..... (Northern tourists are called snow birds)

Actually snow bird refers to retired people that live in the north during the summer then flock to south (usually florida) in the winter.

Yes that is what Northern tourists are called, snow birds. Some come from the North of the US and some come from Canada.

The Yankees come down South and tell the locals how things are done up North; always much better and more efficient. The Southerners want to shoot em but they provide the tourist dollars that feed the family now that the Civil War is over and the slaves have been freed.

The Yankees first come down as tourists and stay in good hotels and spend big. After they get old they sell the house up North for big bucks and buy a small cheaply built condo down South to retire on the profits of the house up North.

They were a pain when they were young tourists as old retirees they are worse (according to the Southern Gentry).

Edited January 21, 2014 by thailiketoo

[HardenedSoul]

width=32 alt=cheesy.gif pagespeed_url_hash=3951237149> I can just imagine how the Thais would react in the US if Americans used the word "Chinaman" toward Thais in the way and with the frequency that Thais use "falang" in Thailand.

In addition; you would be berated and have respect lost by most other Americans who heard.

Most people in the US I know bend over backwards to treat foreigners just like everyone else and to make sure they feel comfortable.

Apples and pears and you know it

I might be able to empathize with you wretched victims of racial abuse if ALL of you could actually agree that the word "farang" is offensive but you can't even do that, can you?

Honestly, if white people feel so bloody aggrieved by the word "farang", then start telling Thais - vocally and to their faces - to stop using it. Why not start banging the lights out of every Thai who persists in using it within earshot after being warned?

I mean, I know what I would do if every local in this country called me a nigger - a genuinely derogatory racial slur - I'd be on a plane out in seconds, bro.

<deleted> are you whinging saps still doing in Thailand if you're being so cruelly abused by the locals?

That's a serious question; let's have some answers

[transam]

width=32 alt=cheesy.gif pagespeed_url_hash=3951237149> I can just imagine how the Thais would react in the US if Americans used the word "Chinaman" toward Thais in the way and with the frequency that Thais use "falang" in Thailand.

In addition; you would be berated and have respect lost by most other Americans who heard.

Most people in the US I know bend over backwards to treat foreigners just like everyone else and to make sure they feel comfortable.

Apples and pears and you know it

I might be able to empathize with you wretched victims of racial abuse if ALL of you could actually agree that the word "farang" is offensive but you can't even do that, can you?

Honestly, if white people feel so bloody aggrieved by the word "farang", then start telling Thais - vocally and to their faces - to stop using it. Why not start banging the lights out of every Thai who persists in using it within earshot after being warned?

I mean, I know what I would do if every local in this country called me a nigger - a genuinely derogatory racial slur - I'd be on a plane out in seconds, bro.

<deleted> are you whinging saps still doing in Thailand if you're being so cruelly abused by the locals?

That's a serious question; let's have some answers

I personally have nooooooooooo problem with the term. Those who do should get off their ''Hi-So'' horse...