No political goals can justify violence: Thai comment

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NATION'S PAGE-ONE COMMENT
No political goals can justify violence
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Democracy - which all of us are calling for - can never be achieved through violence. Those who resort to violence to further their struggle are incompetent and cowardly. A victory - even for one day - achieved on the bodies of the dead will never be an honourable one.

All parties that have committed violence during the anti-government rally over the past week must be condemned in the strongest terms for their cowardly action against unarmed people.

Since the Bangkok Shutdown campaign began a week ago, bomb attacks and shootings have claimed at least one life and injured nearly 100 others.

Whether one agrees or disagrees with the protesters' political views and their actions, nobody has a right to hurt them.

The government might regard the protest as illegal - and the protesters have indeed violated many laws in an effort to disturb the social order as a tactic to achieve their political goals - but the government cannot run away from its responsibility to provide safety to all citizens. Police and other security officials appear to have failed to provide enough security for the protesters. The authorities should make a greater effort to protect them.

The authorities are obliged to investigate violent incidents in order to bring the wrongdoers to justice. Investigations and evidence gathering should be conducted in a transparent manner. Unclear information and sketchy evidence must not be disclosed to attach blame to either side for political purposes. False information and half-truths will not make things clearer, but will only stoke the conflict, and could have negative repercussions for the social divide.

Protest leaders must share some of the responsibility. They cannot simply point the finger at the government and authorities. They know very well that their protest is a risky one and vulnerable to attack at all times of the day and night. They must take sufficient steps to protect the protesters. Tears, flowers and money can never compensate for loss of life. The protest leaders are obligated to protect those people who come out to share their political ambitions.

-- The Nation 2014-01-20

[englishoak]

The irony is people all over the world have died for democracy, this lot are dying because they refuse to accept it.

If anyone thinks these deaths are as meaningful then please go tell that to their families.

[JRSoul]

The irony is people all over the world have died for democracy, this lot are dying because they refuse to accept it.

If anyone thinks these deaths are as meaningful then please go tell that to their families.

this lot are dying because they refuse to accept it..............as it is.

Unless you think Thai democracy is currently as good as it gets, isn't an improvement worth fighting for?

BTW they are dying because those that don't want change are prepared to kill to prevent it.

Edited January 19, 2014 by JRSoul

[noitom]

The Thai press should call it the way it is. Sedition and anarchy. When a protest leader pre announces that he will lead the protesters to "shutdown" the city, occupy government offices, and refuse to compromise or negotiate, it can be called only sedition and anarchy.

[jaidam]

As sand in the hourglass relentlessly falls, it's a reminder of our vulnerability in the face of dwindling time resources. One man's frantic drive to achieve an emporial status is way beyond a mere political goal and for his clan's eternal greatness, what price a few fallen pawns?

[englishoak]

The irony is people all over the world have died for democracy, this lot are dying because they refuse to accept it.

If anyone thinks these deaths are as meaningful then please go tell that to their families.

this lot are dying because they refuse to accept it..............as it is.

Unless you think Thai democracy is currently as good as it gets, isn't an improvement worth fighting for?

Thats what the voting platform is there for so people don't have to fight for control of the country for real and kill each other. Everyone has a voice to use every term, thats the whole point. the fact is that no opposition can be bothered to do the hard groundwork to change opinion, and every couple of years it has a tantrum because they are too lazy and stupid to take in they have to appeal with real polities and respect all walks of society.

Respect the vote and no one has to get hurt.

[noitom]

The authorities are obliged......, but who is in authority in Thailand? The newspaper makes these preposterous claims without clarifying the reality.

[poisonus]

Those who resort to violence to further their struggle are incompetent and cowardly.

Now who do we know that is incompetent and cowardly???

The government perhaps?

[whybother]

The Thai press should call it the way it is. Sedition and anarchy. When a protest leader pre announces that he will lead the protesters to "shutdown" the city, occupy government offices, and refuse to compromise or negotiate, it can be called only sedition and anarchy.

Does that make the bombs and shootings OK then?

[mca]

The sad thing is you just knew when the shutdown occurred that it was going to go this way. I doubt any of us, after the first bomb attack, thought " i didnt see that coming"

Unfortunately one of the depressing aspects of TIT

[moonao]

Yes the whole thing is sad but its hard to have sympathy for terrorists getting attacked by other terrorists.

[JRSoul]

The irony is people all over the world have died for democracy, this lot are dying because they refuse to accept it.

If anyone thinks these deaths are as meaningful then please go tell that to their families.

this lot are dying because they refuse to accept it..............as it is.

Unless you think Thai democracy is currently as good as it gets, isn't an improvement worth fighting for?

Thats what the voting platform is there for so people don't have to fight for control of the country for real and kill each other. Everyone has a voice to use every term, thats the whole point. the fact is that no opposition can be bothered to do the hard groundwork to change opinion, and every couple of years it has a tantrum because they are too lazy and stupid to take in they have to appeal with real polities and respect all walks of society.

Respect the vote and no one has to get hurt.

How about dropping the drivel and answering the question? One of the definitions of madness is repeating the same action to achieve the same bad result. Sane people modify their actions when they fail. And yes, electing criminals because they offer better electoral bribes is a bad result, as people receiving the bribes are now discovering.

How do I respect the vote of a person willing to sell it to the highest bidder, no matter how insane that policy may be. Is that what democracy is all about?

[whybother]

Yes the whole thing is sad but its hard to have sympathy for terrorists getting attacked by other terrorists.

Wow. The definition of "terrorists" is getting pretty broad these days.

[JRSoul]

Yes the whole thing is sad but its hard to have sympathy for terrorists getting attacked by other terrorists.

There is only one group of terrorists involved and they have been wearing their bloody colours for nearly 10 years now.

[Fryslan boppe]

Violence?...Attacks?...None of that is apparent...Is internally generated mayhem, Violence? Is it an attack?..It has not been proven that any of these things have occurred. Video's showed an explosive device hurled from a truck within the protesters convoy...and was not an attack...There are also video's floating around the Internet about the explosion at Victory Monument, again featuring a military type well within the security cordon of the protesters throwing it, thereby suggesting 'internally generated explosions'....They are often referrred to as "Bombs", but is that what they are?...Is a hand grenade a bomb? Is a souped-up firecracker a bomb?...Even in the Iraq/Afghanistan conflict, the things buried in the sand are referred to as "IED's - Improvised explosive devices"...Bombs are what I imagine are dropped from airplanes and kill many people. They kill more than injure. The protesters must be very frustrated needing to generate mayhem via 'explosions' instead of being attacked by forces external to themselves...They must be very angry for the ubiquitous camera's catching the sources of these explosions.....Using the descriptors such as 'bombs' and 'violence' is magnifying protester shenanigans, quite effectively for the naive...IE, I saw that CNN bottom-screen newsreel last night talking about violence and people being injured in Thailand, implying all sorts of battles between opposing forces, which is not proven to be happening....The UDD/Rs know better than to play into the hands of the protesters by doing that, and apparently the police do as well...Expect these 'explosions' to continue and be ratchetted up, as the Election draws nearer...The protesters have a very limited window of opportunity to prevent or delay them...But any tampering with this date, from whatever source, will be deemed effectively a coup....Then there may be violence and attacks.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Fryslan boppe

[pipkins]

The sad thing is you just knew when the shutdown occurred that it was going to go this way. I doubt any of us, after the first bomb attack, thought " i didnt see that coming"

Unfortunately one of the depressing aspects of TIT

And each side feels secure in the knowledge they will not be prosecuted as they have backers.

Even thaksin has stong military and elite thais. It's the backers than need to go.

Then the middle class need to get a grip, stop watching all the bilge every evening on tv, leave the skin whitenener alone and get polictally active... By that i don't mean stupid clappers, whistles and marching ON BOTH SIDES

[JRSoul]

Violence?...Attacks?...None of that is apparent...Is internally generated mayhem, Violence? Is it an attack?..It has not been proven that any of these things have occurred. Video's showed an explosive device hurled from a truck within the protesters convoy...and was not an attack...There are also video's floating around the Internet about the explosion at Victory Monument, again featuring a military type well within the security cordon of the protesters throwing it, thereby suggesting 'internally generated explosions'....They are often referrred to as "Bombs", but is that what they are?...Is a hand grenade a bomb? Is a souped-up firecracker a bomb?...Even in the Iraq/Afghanistan conflict, the things buried in the sand are referred to as "IED's - Improvised explosive devices"...Bombs are what I imagine are dropped from airplanes and kill many people. They kill more than injure. The protesters must be very frustrated needing to generate mayhem via 'explosions' instead of being attacked by forces external to themselves...They must be very angry for the ubiquitous camera's catching the sources of these explosions.....Using the descriptors such as 'bombs' and 'violence' is magnifying protester shenanigans, quite effectively for the naive...IE, I saw that CNN bottom-screen newsreel last night talking about violence and people being injured in Thailand, implying all sorts of battles between opposing forces, which is not proven to be happening....The UDD/Rs know better than to play into the hands of the protesters by doing that, and apparently the police do as well.

1/ the explosive devices have been positively identified as Chinese made hand grenades. your waffling will not obscure that.

2/ your belief that the PDRC are causing violence on themselves is held by 3% of the BKK population surveyed. Your view is an extreme one caused by your own bias - get over it.

[englishoak]

The irony is people all over the world have died for democracy, this lot are dying because they refuse to accept it.

If anyone thinks these deaths are as meaningful then please go tell that to their families.

this lot are dying because they refuse to accept it..............as it is.

Unless you think Thai democracy is currently as good as it gets, isn't an improvement worth fighting for?

Thats what the voting platform is there for so people don't have to fight for control of the country for real and kill each other. Everyone has a voice to use every term, thats the whole point. the fact is that no opposition can be bothered to do the hard groundwork to change opinion, and every couple of years it has a tantrum because they are too lazy and stupid to take in they have to appeal with real polities and respect all walks of society.

Respect the vote and no one has to get hurt.

How about dropping the drivel and answering the question? One of the definitions of madness is repeating the same action to achieve the same bad result. Sane people modify their actions when they fail. And yes, electing criminals because they offer better electoral bribes is a bad result, as people receiving the bribes are now discovering.

How do I respect the vote of a person willing to sell it to the highest bidder, no matter how insane that policy may be. Is that what democracy is all about?

I shall ignore your petty insult and try to put it in terms even you can understand.

indeed the definition of madness is repeating the same thing and expecting a different result, ie the coups and all change every couple of years, democracy must run its course and lasting change comes with small steps not upheavals every couple of years. The unwillingness to take the time to say "hey we dont want this crap anymore" and spend the next couple of years building a political opposition with real policies that appeal to the MASSES whilst pointing out all the flaws and corruption of the gov whilst doing it might be a good idea.

The longest serving PM so far has been Taksin, the only PM to be re elected into its second term of which didnt last. Thailand will not fix its problems by running amok every couple of years it must work through the problems and if it takes time ( which it will ) so be it but the end result will be far better than coup after coup after coup be it Military or Judicial .... ie insanity. The country will not take much more of this before erupting into much much worse violence, even the army gets that.

Patience young padwan, the Thais must learn patience and so it seems must you.

[lemonjelly]

Is there a possibility that one day the Nation will employ a NES reporter to provide some literary and intellectual sustanence to chew on in the morning?

[gerry1011]

Pictures of armed yellow guards and protesters caught with all sorts of weapons appear on social media constantly.

Who is looking for violence?

The answer is easy and Suthep should be held responsible for all deaths.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[JRSoul]

this lot are dying because they refuse to accept it..............as it is.

Unless you think Thai democracy is currently as good as it gets, isn't an improvement worth fighting for?

Thats what the voting platform is there for so people don't have to fight for control of the country for real and kill each other. Everyone has a voice to use every term, thats the whole point. the fact is that no opposition can be bothered to do the hard groundwork to change opinion, and every couple of years it has a tantrum because they are too lazy and stupid to take in they have to appeal with real polities and respect all walks of society.

Respect the vote and no one has to get hurt.

How about dropping the drivel and answering the question? One of the definitions of madness is repeating the same action to achieve the same bad result. Sane people modify their actions when they fail. And yes, electing criminals because they offer better electoral bribes is a bad result, as people receiving the bribes are now discovering.

How do I respect the vote of a person willing to sell it to the highest bidder, no matter how insane that policy may be. Is that what democracy is all about?

I shall ignore your petty insult and try to put it in terms even you can understand.

indeed the definition of madness is repeating the same thing and expecting a different result, ie the coups and all change every couple of years, democracy must run its course and lasting change comes with small steps not upheavals every couple of years. The unwillingness to take the time to say "hey we dont want this crap anymore" and spend the next couple of years building a political opposition with real policies that appeal to the MASSES whilst pointing out all the flaws and corruption of the gov whilst doing it might be a good idea.

The longest serving PM so far has been Taksin, the only PM to be re elected into its second term of which didnt last. Thailand will not fix its problems by running amok every couple of years it must work through the problems and if it takes time ( which it will ) so be it but the end result will be far better than coup after coup after coup be it Military or Judicial .... ie insanity. The country will not take much more of this before erupting into much much worse violence, even the army gets that.

Patience young padwan, the Thais must learn patience and so it seems must you.

More drivel, no answer.

[JRSoul]

Pictures of armed yellow guards and protesters caught with all sorts of weapons appear on social media constantly.

Who is looking for violence?

The answer is easy and Suthep should be held responsible for all deaths.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Who is looking for violence? WHO IS DYING?

[noitom]

The Thai press should call it the way it is. Sedition and anarchy. When a protest leader pre announces that he will lead the protesters to "shutdown" the city, occupy government offices, and refuse to compromise or negotiate, it can be called only sedition and anarchy.

Does that make the bombs and shootings OK then?

No bombs are wrong. How do you feel about sedition and anarchy?

[gerry1011]

Pictures of armed yellow guards and protesters caught with all sorts of weapons appear on social media constantly.

Who is looking for violence?

The answer is easy and Suthep should be held responsible for all deaths.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Who is looking for violence? WHO IS DYING?

Yellows

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[pipkins]

Pictures of armed yellow guards and protesters caught with all sorts of weapons appear on social media constantly.

Who is looking for violence?

The answer is easy and Suthep should be held responsible for all deaths.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

it is only the PDRC who say the Gov. is responsible. Every right minded person and certainly ALL the media outside of what we are subjected to here see it that was as well.

Only problem is that the Courts are firmly on side with the factions supporting Suthep so they try to make the Government corrupt (should say more corrupt) by making laws and interpreting them to work against any opposition to their centuries old rule.

Those Navy Seals are all over TV this morning and the finger is pointing squarly at Suthep and Abhisit. Maybe they are innocent.... but the tide of public opinion and revulsion is turning against them.... And thats not TV dreams, that is out there in the real world media.

I left Thaivisa alone for years as it is run off PAD Propaganda from Nation, but I blog here now in a bid to bring some balance. What pleases me is that the forum is very balanced and open... so you might have me for the duration.... Even the Nation are pulling back from Suthep a bit these days.

The wind of change sweeping thailand means they cannot just spout propaganda... So Yingluck is getting a better crack of the whip than Thaksin got last time. The younger journalisst just dont want to stifle their carears by beint blatantly Elitist mouthpieces. And you can see this right accross thai media these days. Well done the media this time.

[englishoak]

Thats what the voting platform is there for so people don't have to fight for control of the country for real and kill each other. Everyone has a voice to use every term, thats the whole point. the fact is that no opposition can be bothered to do the hard groundwork to change opinion, and every couple of years it has a tantrum because they are too lazy and stupid to take in they have to appeal with real polities and respect all walks of society.

Respect the vote and no one has to get hurt.

How about dropping the drivel and answering the question? One of the definitions of madness is repeating the same action to achieve the same bad result. Sane people modify their actions when they fail. And yes, electing criminals because they offer better electoral bribes is a bad result, as people receiving the bribes are now discovering.

How do I respect the vote of a person willing to sell it to the highest bidder, no matter how insane that policy may be. Is that what democracy is all about?

I shall ignore your petty insult and try to put it in terms even you can understand.

indeed the definition of madness is repeating the same thing and expecting a different result, ie the coups and all change every couple of years, democracy must run its course and lasting change comes with small steps not upheavals every couple of years. The unwillingness to take the time to say "hey we dont want this crap anymore" and spend the next couple of years building a political opposition with real policies that appeal to the MASSES whilst pointing out all the flaws and corruption of the gov whilst doing it might be a good idea.

The longest serving PM so far has been Taksin, the only PM to be re elected into its second term of which didnt last. Thailand will not fix its problems by running amok every couple of years it must work through the problems and if it takes time ( which it will ) so be it but the end result will be far better than coup after coup after coup be it Military or Judicial .... ie insanity. The country will not take much more of this before erupting into much much worse violence, even the army gets that.

Patience young padwan, the Thais must learn patience and so it seems must you.

More drivel, no answer.

Obviously you are only interested in an answer that suits you, you must come from one of those banana republics I guess. Oh well I tried, clearly im not a very good kindergarten teacher.

Have a good day on your barstool

[Cnxforever]

"Police and other security officials appear to have failed to provide enough security for the protesters. The authorities should make a greater effort to protect them."

So which part of "illegally trying to overthrow an elected government" does The Nation not get??

They write in the same article that the protesters broke many laws - but expect the authorities to better protect them so they can carry on with their illegal activities?

They want to overthrow an elected government and complain the police is not giving them enough protection after hiring their own thugs as "guards" who intimidate people, harass them, steal their motorbikes,hold people against their will, prevent police from accessing a crime scene and complain the authorities is not protecting them enough to carry out their illegal activities?

Are they for real? Has The Nation which has long become irrelevant as a news source for their biased reporting lost it totally?

I think it's long overdue that the government now starts to enforce the law - give them a fair warning to clear the streets and move their "peaceful" protest to where they do not infringe on the rights of others - or face the consequences!

[Fryslan boppe]

Violence?...Attacks?...None of that is apparent...Is internally generated mayhem, Violence? Is it an attack?..It has not been proven that any of these things have occurred. Video's showed an explosive device hurled from a truck within the protesters convoy...and was not an attack...There are also video's floating around the Internet about the explosion at Victory Monument, again featuring a military type well within the security cordon of the protesters throwing it, thereby suggesting 'internally generated explosions'....They are often referrred to as "Bombs", but is that what they are?...Is a hand grenade a bomb? Is a souped-up firecracker a bomb?...Even in the Iraq/Afghanistan conflict, the things buried in the sand are referred to as "IED's - Improvised explosive devices"...Bombs are what I imagine are dropped from airplanes and kill many people. They kill more than injure. The protesters must be very frustrated needing to generate mayhem via 'explosions' instead of being attacked by forces external to themselves...They must be very angry for the ubiquitous camera's catching the sources of these explosions.....Using the descriptors such as 'bombs' and 'violence' is magnifying protester shenanigans, quite effectively for the naive...IE, I saw that CNN bottom-screen newsreel last night talking about violence and people being injured in Thailand, implying all sorts of battles between opposing forces, which is not proven to be happening....The UDD/Rs know better than to play into the hands of the protesters by doing that, and apparently the police do as well...Expect these 'explosions' to continue and be ratchetted up, as the Election draws nearer...The protesters have a very limited window of opportunity to prevent or delay them...But any tampering with this date, from whatever source, will be deemed effectively a coup....Then there may be violence and attacks.

"There are also video's floating around the Internet about the explosion at Victory Monument, again featuring a military type well within the security cordon of the protesters throwing it, thereby suggesting 'internally generated explosions'"...

Here is what I am speaking of...My first attempt at attaching a file...See if it works-gulp!

[mikebike]

The Thai press should call it the way it is. Sedition and anarchy. When a protest leader pre announces that he will lead the protesters to "shutdown" the city, occupy government offices, and refuse to compromise or negotiate, it can be called only sedition and anarchy.

I believe in a former British colony, now know as the USA, about 250 years ago they called it "revolution"...

[uty6543]

The longest serving PM so far has been Taksin, the only PM to be re elected into its second term of which didnt last. Thailand will not fix its problems by running amok every couple of years it must work through the problems and if it takes time ( which it will ) so be it but the end result will be far better than coup after coup after coup be it Military or Judicial .... ie insanity. The country will not take much more of this before erupting into much much worse violence, even the army gets that.

I don't follow politics too much so I'm sure you or someone else will correct me if I am wrong.

1. Is Thaksin also the only Thai PM to have been convicted of corruption?

2. Is Thaksin's party the one with the most renames having had the party banned from politics for various misdeeds.

3. Is Thaksin party the one to also have lost power more times than another party?

4. Last question isn't an improvement in democracy worth fighting for?

Maybe he has done some things right but he seems to have done an awful lot of things wrong.