To Barack Obama: Mr President, some facts you should know about the Thai political crisis

[dahinni]

Whole Country need a big times political overhaul.

[Calimotty]

Wont be given anymore thought by me either.

This is saying much more about the writer if he thinks USA don't know about Thailand. They set the system here in place to keep the communists out.

Writer needs to read much much more... except, in Thailand, the education system will not teach anything about this as Thais like to think they fought off communism themselves. what a dreamer.

Whilst USA indeed bolstered up this top down system as a way for the elites to control the population (read keep out the commies) they are well bored with them now and modern thinkers such as obama are not going to want to stick to to Vietnam war era foreign policy.

Times change and Thailand needs to move on and get rid of this perpetual coup they have now. Obama listen to Suthep.... You have to be joking... except I know you're not.

Suthep need some real PR gurus as this lot just embarrass him and themselves everytime they trot this lot out.

Wiki leaks all over the internet.

Thais like to think they fought off communism themselves. what a dreamer.

And the Japs in WW2

Hiding under their beds and ducking out occasionally to accept money from each side is more like it.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Calimotty

[icommunity]

I believe the US President is not as gullible as the lawyer of this letter. US senators are opened to all kinds of lobbying.

[casualbiker]

Of course she's entitled to her opinion. I just don't see why that opinion is put here as news.

Because its a letter to El Presidento

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[AryanicAristocrat]

This is a great letter, please help it to be disseminated to all other foreign media and also can the US Government stop minding its own business and get its own country properly first especially its own economic policies. The people of US should start a demonstration against this garbage congressman Michael Turner and his family and croynies as he does not seem to be serving his own American People and their welfare but getting his nose involved in the butts of other people's <deleted> which is not his problem or issue. They should ousts this garbage and also check on all of his finances and businesses and even his families, I am sure that they will find something from a garbage like this.

[Gulfsailor]

Ok. Looking at the US-Thai relationship in this matter it is clear that a major interest of the US is to have an airbase at U-Tapao. Previous Thaksin based governments wanted to play ball, but the military and dems (and thus very hard to have it passed in partly appointed senate) were always against it.

One of the major given reasons for the current protest (apart from corruption and the amnesty bill, which were just the reasons used to get more people to join) was the proposed change to allow the government to make exactly these kinds of decisions via executive degree, thus taking the senate out of the picture. Alternatively a fully elected senate would also be more likely to pass a bill on the subject. Hence PTP's efforts to make said changes.

Now the link with mr. Michael Turner; He is US chairman of the house armed services tactical air and land forces subcommittee.

This entire struggle for power has too many different players and interest groups, but one major part is Chinese versus US influence in the Southeast Asian region.

[bigbamboo]

Maybe he'd have more luck writing to Michelle instead.

[xminator]

Nice list of half truths. Most on that list however have been trumphed by the previous government. The war on drugs is peanuts compared to what the police in the US do on a year to year basis. It is not meating European standards, but this is a letter to the US president....

[Snig27]

Wow OP, as a US trained lawyer as you claim then you would understand that weather you, Suthep, the Dem's or whistle blowers like it or not,

that

Also you as a US trained lawyer you would also know that the correct way to remove a government leader is to impeach them, clearly show corruption or breaches of laws, but this has not been shown has it.

But the US are well known for their style of removing government they no longer have use for yes?

"this government was elected and those trying to overthrow the government are not respecting the vote of the people, ie the democratic process, "

You're correct of course....PTP were elected....and there were some good populist policies implemented by the past Thaksin regimes.....Village fund, 30 Thb health fund & etc......however...in the highly populated North and NE regions prior to the last election, evidence is blatantly obvious of vote buying....(Youtube has several videos of Reds passing out 1000Thb bills for their vote).

The overwhelming problem with this is that independent research has shown that the Dems spent more buying votes in these regions than PT and it didn't work. People simply took the money and voted as they wished.

The uncomfortable and underlying implication in all these endless claims of vote buying is that all these people - the whole region - are stupid and easily led. The population's minds are not their own. I for one find this ongoing elitism and - yep - racism ugly. It's no different to the way white southerners approached the black population for a hundred years after the US civil war, and the English regarded Indians, Chinese, Malays, Māori, Aborigines and Africans for hundreds of years. It's abhorrent.

Please, next time you are making blanket accusations of vote buying think for a moment about what you are saying. People who live in the regions that vote strongly PT have minds, ethics, morals and opinions, no more or less than any other person who voted any other way - no matter how much you may need to buy into blanket "vote-buying" to support the position you may have taken.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Snig27

[brewsterbudgen]

Wow OP, as a US trained lawyer as you claim then you would understand that weather you, Suthep, the Dem's or whistle blowers like it or not,

that

Also you as a US trained lawyer you would also know that the correct way to remove a government leader is to impeach them, clearly show corruption or breaches of laws, but this has not been shown has it.

But the US are well known for their style of removing government they no longer have use for yes?

"this government was elected and those trying to overthrow the government are not respecting the vote of the people, ie the democratic process, "

You're correct of course....PTP were elected....and there were some good populist policies implemented by the past Thaksin regimes.....Village fund, 30 Thb health fund & etc......however...in the highly populated North and NE regions prior to the last election, evidence is blatantly obvious of vote buying....(Youtube has several videos of Reds passing out 1000Thb bills for their vote).

The overwhelming problem with this is that independent research has shown that the Dems spent more buying votes in these regions than PT and it didn't work. People simply took the money and voted as they wished.

The uncomfortable and underlying implication in all these endless claims of vote buying is that all these people - the whole region - are stupid and easily led. The population's minds are not their own. I for one find this ongoing elitism and - yep - racism ugly. It's no different to the way white southerners addressed the black population for a hundred years after the US civil war and the English thought of the Indians.

Please, next time you are making blanket accusations of vote buying think for a moment about what you are saying. People who live in the regions that vote strongly PT have minds, ethics, morals and opinions, no more or less than any other person who voted any other way.

Great post. Sums up the elitist mindset very accurately, as well as pointing the many inaccuracies in their arguments.

[fab4]

surely it couldn't be the same person? They aren't THAT stupid are they?

https://twitter.com/princessvanina

Judging by the invective on her twitter account wrt the UDD and anything Thaksin, let alone her self description

"Thai-Franco-American lawyer trying to survive as a Parisian girl"

it would appear so - suits the demographic of wannabe HiSo suthep fanboy to a T, I'd say.

Wonder what the PAD ultra nationalist contingent of the suthep fanboyz will think about her appeal to a Foreign Nation?

[RJF]

As someone who is not taking sides in this conflict, I do find it highly ironic she addresses Obama, of all people. A man from a party that had to endure the Republican Bush clan government for 8 years. But when the economy was down the drain and things were truly screwed up, he addressed the public with a message that resonated. He convinced and encouraged the people to vote for him. This is how change was established in the USA. Perhaps an idea for Thailand as well?

Edited January 20, 2014 by RJF

[arminbkk]

Posters argue that the OP is biased, only focuses on Thaksin, does not address all the aspects, that there is more

to the Thai political spectrum, aspects of Thai society and history etc etc.

That there is much more to it that we mere foreigners could never understand.....but that every single Thai protester, pro and anti, out there, does.

Yeah right.

While I understand that for the leaders and backers of the anti-government movement there is probably a bigger and different picture,

the OP is correct in explaining the frustration and motivation of the ordinary anti-government protesters.

From speaking with Thais, the motivation of most of the protesters is not that profound.

Most are just fed up with Thaksin and his influence and for what he has done, as written in the OP, which most will have to admit are facts.

While the motivation for the organizers and the people behind the whole movement might be beyond the "I hate Thaksin/Kick YL out etc",

the motivation for the everyday folk protesting is just 'only' that.

Most are not there for Suthep, many don't like him, and only support him now because he says he will not be involved after V-Day.

The anti protesters see Thaksin getting away with a lot and also see that that will continue if his sister's government stays in power.

They know this government will probably be re-elected, so that basically leaves only one option to drive this government out.

Now perhaps the anti-government protesters should give more thought to what exactly will come after, who are the powers behind

the movement backing it, how 'clean' are Suthep and the other protest leaders, etc. etc., but....most protesters are just

ordinary people that don't like Thaksin and his current government. They don't look beyond that.

That might be, and probably is, wrong, but it is what drives them, as written in the OP.

[The Dancer]

She lost me at "The Thaksin authoritarian government, elected through vote-rigging...". You want to

make a case, make a case. Don't lie.

[Thait Spot]

Of course she's entitled to her opinion. I just don't see why that opinion is put here as news.

Because the fevered Scarlets don't get to decide what's news

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[givenall]

This threads gonna have legs!

Its so funny that even Thais don't know about their politics

[Snig27]

She lost me at "The Thaksin authoritarian government, elected through vote-rigging...". You want to

make a case, make a case. Don't lie.

Yes, quite.

And her failure to understand that if Obama was to take sides, his past would very likely make him lean towards increasing the voice of the regions and people who have, to date, largely been ignored. Suthep largely stands for everything he does not.

She seems to struggle with US history and much as she does with Thai history.

[Thait Spot]

Wow OP, as a US trained lawyer as you claim then you would understand that weather you, Suthep, the Dem's or whistle blowers like it or not,

that

Also you as a US trained lawyer you would also know that the correct way to remove a government leader is to impeach them, clearly show corruption or breaches of laws, but this has not been shown has it.

But the US are well known for their style of removing government they no longer have use for yes?

"this government was elected and those trying to overthrow the government are not respecting the vote of the people, ie the democratic process, "

You're correct of course....PTP were elected....and there were some good populist policies implemented by the past Thaksin regimes.....Village fund, 30 Thb health fund & etc......however...in the highly populated North and NE regions prior to the last election, evidence is blatantly obvious of vote buying....(Youtube has several videos of Reds passing out 1000Thb bills for their vote).

The overwhelming problem with this is that independent research has shown that the Dems spent more buying votes in these regions than PT and it didn't work. People simply took the money and voted as they wished.

The uncomfortable and underlying implication in all these endless claims of vote buying is that all these people - the whole region - are stupid and easily led. The population's minds are not their own. I for one find this ongoing elitism and - yep - racism ugly. It's no different to the way white southerners approached the black population for a hundred years after the US civil war, and the English regarded Indians, Chinese, Malays, Māori, Aborigines and Africans for hundreds of years. It's abhorrent.

Please, next time you are making blanket accusations of vote buying think for a moment about what you are saying. People who live in the regions that vote strongly PT have minds, ethics, morals and opinions, no more or less than any other person who voted any other way - no matter how much you may need to buy into blanket "vote-buying" to support the position you may have taken.

What "independent research"?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Local Drunk]

I'm curious about the answers of some of the simplistic anti-Suthep pro Thaksin TV members

Let me not dissapoint you. Please forgive me for a repeat of a Post some time ago, that addresses your curiosity:

1..What are protests all about ....Not as stated being anti-Thaksin....They are about unelectables seeking alternative paths to political power. In this case via a coup, using either military, judicial or street activism as the vehicle. Coup-mongers seeking to cover their true motives started off with the anti-amnesty thing, then to anti-Thaksin rhetoric, than anti-electoral, than Electoral delay ostensibly for vague self-serving, holier-than-thou Reform demands. Bottom line, it as all election-avoidance, coup-intentioned, using contrived issues as cover. When one issue doesn't give them traction, they move to another one. It is noted that any of these issues could be "Parliamentirized", subject to electoral review by voters the next election.

2. Who are competing protest groups?...There are no competing protest groups. There is only one protest group comprising of electoral minorities with coup intentions in order to avoid an election they will lose. They have incited opposition to their non-democratic, non-electoral plans however. Elections do not serve these people well. They are trying to change electoral systemics rather than reforming themselves to appeal to a diverse Thai electorate.

3. What are the possible scenarios?...An election on Feb. 2nd. Anything else would effectively be a coup. Certainly not pro-Govt. protests by Red Shirts as reported above. Red Shirt activism is focussed on protecting Electoral Democracy in reaction to protests by those who want it otherwise. The notion that there are two protest groups is not correct. The Govt. attempts to mollify coup-mongers short of a coup is naive. Everything from shelving legislation on the basis of which they were elected, to dissolution of Parliament is evidence of that.

4. Could the army or courts intervene. Yes they could, depending on which vehicle the Electoral Minority elites prefer. At this point, it appears that the politicized judiciary is the preferred vehicle, and a number of initiatives have already been launched by the elites in this regard. International entities would look unfavorably on a coup using the military as the enablers. I am guessing it is felt that using the politicized judiciary would create enough smoke to cover what is called a 'judicial coup', considering that internationally the judiciary is considered normal.

Watched the BBC news today and they say the protests are a result of Sutheps deep seated personal hatred of Yingluk and her family and he will not cease the protests until her entire family leave the country with just the clothes on their backs.

"Watched the BBC news today and they say the protests are a result of Sutheps deep seated personal hatred of Yingluk and her family and he will not cease the protests until her entire family leave the country with just the clothes on their backs."

So the BBC thinks it's just Supthep that hates the Shins? Other than a few provinces in Issan and the North, where can she now go without being hated? How can she continue to govern when the capital and Central regions are against her? When the South is against her? She can't. It's not about Supthep or a war of personalities, except perhaps the to BBC which makes for shallow grandstanding get the ratings up. Next time you run into a BBC or CNN reporter... Ask them a bit of history... Current history or events even.... Maybe about the Rohingyas, or the rice pledging scheme, or the two point two trillion baht high speed train to nowhere. Ask them where they stand on the environment and Mae Wong dam issue? Ask them about human trafficking, illegal logging or fairness in the judicial system?

All you'll get a lot "huhs"? Then again I suppose if you live here and you believe what BBC spews out as truth, then all I can say is "huh?"

[LadPhrao123]

surely it couldn't be the same person? They aren't THAT stupid are they?

https://twitter.com/princessvanina

Oh man, this is priceless. What a carnival of clowns this lot is... Wonder how many TVF Suthep supports are linked to that Twitter account.

[LadPhrao123]

I'm curious about the answers of some of the simplistic anti-Suthep pro Thaksin TV members

Let me not dissapoint you. Please forgive me for a repeat of a Post some time ago, that addresses your curiosity:

1..What are protests all about ....Not as stated being anti-Thaksin....They are about unelectables seeking alternative paths to political power. In this case via a coup, using either military, judicial or street activism as the vehicle. Coup-mongers seeking to cover their true motives started off with the anti-amnesty thing, then to anti-Thaksin rhetoric, than anti-electoral, than Electoral delay ostensibly for vague self-serving, holier-than-thou Reform demands. Bottom line, it as all election-avoidance, coup-intentioned, using contrived issues as cover. When one issue doesn't give them traction, they move to another one. It is noted that any of these issues could be "Parliamentirized", subject to electoral review by voters the next election.

2. Who are competing protest groups?...There are no competing protest groups. There is only one protest group comprising of electoral minorities with coup intentions in order to avoid an election they will lose. They have incited opposition to their non-democratic, non-electoral plans however. Elections do not serve these people well. They are trying to change electoral systemics rather than reforming themselves to appeal to a diverse Thai electorate.

3. What are the possible scenarios?...An election on Feb. 2nd. Anything else would effectively be a coup. Certainly not pro-Govt. protests by Red Shirts as reported above. Red Shirt activism is focussed on protecting Electoral Democracy in reaction to protests by those who want it otherwise. The notion that there are two protest groups is not correct. The Govt. attempts to mollify coup-mongers short of a coup is naive. Everything from shelving legislation on the basis of which they were elected, to dissolution of Parliament is evidence of that.

4. Could the army or courts intervene. Yes they could, depending on which vehicle the Electoral Minority elites prefer. At this point, it appears that the politicized judiciary is the preferred vehicle, and a number of initiatives have already been launched by the elites in this regard. International entities would look unfavorably on a coup using the military as the enablers. I am guessing it is felt that using the politicized judiciary would create enough smoke to cover what is called a 'judicial coup', considering that internationally the judiciary is considered normal.

Watched the BBC news today and they say the protests are a result of Sutheps deep seated personal hatred of Yingluk and her family and he will not cease the protests until her entire family leave the country with just the clothes on their backs.

"Watched the BBC news today and they say the protests are a result of Sutheps deep seated personal hatred of Yingluk and her family and he will not cease the protests until her entire family leave the country with just the clothes on their backs."

So the BBC thinks it's just Supthep that hates the Shins? Other than a few provinces in Issan and the North, where can she now go without being hated? How can she continue to govern when the capital and Central regions are against her? When the South is against her? She can't. It's not about Supthep or a war of personalities, except perhaps the to BBC which makes for shallow grandstanding get the ratings up. Next time you run into a BBC or CNN reporter... Ask them a bit of history... Current history or events even.... Maybe about the Rohingyas, or the rice pledging scheme, or the two point two trillion baht high speed train to nowhere. Ask them where they stand on the environment and Mae Wong dam issue? Ask them about human trafficking, illegal logging or fairness in the judicial system?

All you'll get a lot "huhs"? Then again I suppose if you live here and you believe what BBC spews out as truth, then all I can say is "huh?"

Yep, six million people or umm now, a few hundred blocking intersections, can't be wrong. By the way Mondays are free tinfoil hat adjustment days at any PDRC protest site. Get a check up today and a free counterfeit whistle to anyone turning in a grenade pin.

[binjalin]

what a load of rubbish... the writer of this letter needs a letter FROM Obama : "this is what you call democracy - sometimes you don't win! but you don't destroy elections and the electoral process"

[scorecard]

Michael Turner will have a chuckle after reading that nonsense.

Poor old Vanina Sucharitkul hasn't a clue in the slightest what democacy means.

So enlighten us, which specific (repeat specific) parts of his letter are incorrect.

[virtualtraveller]

The US intelligence attaché in Bangkok would have briefed the Obama administration on things even we don't even know in the public domain. They know Thaksin runs the show, they know he's no angel (just like Noriega et al), they play the diplomacy card well to suit their Asia-pac ambitions, they realise it's a good idea to stay on the Shinawatras good side, given they are the most likely to be democratically elected, they stop short of condemning the street protests since they already got their fingers burnt in Egypt and Syria. Whether or not democracy is working well in Thailand is not their concern, as long as it looks democratic and not being monopolised by extremists.

When Obama met Yingluck it probably become immediately apparent to him she wasn't terribly switched on politically.

The US Govt reps in Bangkok will be hoping for stability, no extremists, no civil war, no coup (would have to condemn it even if it was a solution), no drawn out mess that they have to become involved in. Either way, they are likely to get their military favours from one side or the other. Don't peeve either side off too much.

[casualbiker]

surely it couldn't be the same person? They aren't THAT stupid are they?

https://twitter.com/princessvanina

Oh man, this is priceless. What a carnival of clowns this lot is... Wonder how many TVF Suthep supports are linked to that Twitter account.

Whats priceless?? The fact that a Facebook app took over her twitter.. the fact she hasn't used it for sometime!!!!

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[scorecard]

what a load of rubbish... the writer of this letter needs a letter FROM Obama : "this is what you call democracy - sometimes you don't win! but you don't destroy elections and the electoral process"

Quote: ""this is what you call democracy - sometimes you don't win! but you don't destroy elections and the electoral process".

So your comment is about the current / caretaker government.

[diceq]

Michael Turner will have a chuckle after reading that nonsense.

Poor old Vanina Sucharitkul hasn't a clue in the slightest what democacy means.

So enlighten us, which specific (repeat specific) parts of his letter are incorrect.

For example:

The Thaksin authoritarian government, elected through vote-rigging,

That's an absurd and baseless conspiracy theory. I say absurd because no one is denying that they have the support of the majority. Thus vote rigging becomes completely meaningless. And I say baseless because she offers no proof of it whatsoever.

[metisdead]

A vulgar comment has been removed.

[LarryBird]

She lost me at "The Thaksin authoritarian government, elected through vote-rigging...". You want to

make a case, make a case. Don't lie.

Yes, quite.

And her failure to understand that if Obama was to take sides, his past would very likely make him lean towards increasing the voice of the regions and people who have, to date, largely been ignored. Suthep largely stands for everything he does not.

She seems to struggle with US history and much as she does with Thai history.

ThaiVisa post of the year.

[geriatrickid]

This is a great letter, please help it to be disseminated to all other foreign media and also can the US Government stop minding its own business and get its own country properly first especially its own economic policies. The people of US should start a demonstration against this garbage congressman Michael Turner and his family and croynies as he does not seem to be serving his own American People and their welfare but getting his nose involved in the butts of other people's <deleted> which is not his problem or issue. They should ousts this garbage and also check on all of his finances and businesses and even his families, I am sure that they will find something from a garbage like this.

You obviously don't know much about the Congressman do you? He has an impeccable record, consistently rates highly of the ethics scorecard and has received praise for his revitalization program when he was Mayor of Dayton. No one has ever accused him of wrongdoing.

Had you made an effort to see what congressional committees he chairs and sits on, you would have seen that he is indeed serving the American people. I suggest you do your research before you call someone of his background and reputation "garbage". Who are you to comment anyway? Do you know anything about the Congressman's voting record or the causes that eh has been active in? NO? I didn't think so.