Living in Chiang Mai on $500 a month?

[NancyL]

NancyL,

How many people in the situation you describe, or a similar situation, do you think (or know) there are in Chiang Mai city?

Good question -- let's leave out the part about 84 years old and simply focus on people who are frail, living on limited means and without savings or a back-up plan if they have a major health crisis. I'd estimate there are several thousand foreigners in this situation in the area around Chiang Mai.

Consider that during the six weeks that Nakorn Ping hospital opened enrollment in their gov't health insurance program to non-migrant labor foreigners, they had 100 people enroll who were over age 60, with a surprising number over age 80 -- many in very poor health and in need of immediate attention.

[BB1955]

In a recent article, Kathleen Peddicord stated that expats of all ages living in Ecuador could now get full medical coverage under the country's government health plan (social security) for only $70 per month. Pre-existing conditions are covered too. Let's hope Thailand can do the same in the near future so elderly expats living in Thailand can get the care they deserve.

The OP may want to investigate Ecuador if insurance costs and/or pre-existing conditions are a concern for him.

My older sister told me the same thing and plans to move there . I wonder if she read one of this ladies book I will ask her .

[hml367]

NancyL,

How many people in the situation you describe, or a similar situation, do you think (or know) there are in Chiang Mai city?

Good question -- let's leave out the part about 84 years old and simply focus on people who are frail, living on limited means and without savings or a back-up plan if they have a major health crisis. I'd estimate there are several thousand foreigners in this situation in the area around Chiang Mai.

Consider that during the six weeks that Nakorn Ping hospital opened enrollment in their gov't health insurance program to non-migrant labor foreigners, they had 100 people enroll who were over age 60, with a surprising number over age 80 -- many in very poor health and in need of immediate attention.

Actually, I was wondering about people in a hospital or have been in and could not pay.... not the possibilities.

Personally, I don't think it is that big of a percentage of the foreigners that are here.

[Johpa]

The article says it costs $1100 per month to live a basic life in Chiang Mai, excluding transport.

That is probably pretty close to what you need to live the neo-sahib western lifestyle in Chiang Mai. But if you are comfortable with a Thai lifestyle, and most Thais in Chiang Mai make $500 or less per month, then you can be comfortable and happy on much less than $1,100 per month.

[northernjohn]

Saw the title and thought 'oh no here we go again on the cheap charlie stories'

But then I thought US$ = 16400bht. Cheapo room = 3000bht. 13400/30 = 446 bht a day.

Unless there is something wrong with my math (always possible) , surely that isnt a major challenge, even without argument/discussion over 20 bht meals?

Breakfast at home -20bht, lunch and dinner out - 200bht total , 226 baht left over for 'luxuries' (!!)- or 1600bht a week.

Where am I going wrong?? Have I got a zero in the wrong place??

Well your math is right but you forgot to figure in utilities which raphe probably not cheap in those type places. Also you are assuming he only walks so he would be limited to the areas he could afford to live in.

What I was wondering is why would some body that cash strapped pick a city like Chiang Mai when there are a lot of cities and villages they could live in at a cheaper price. Lets face it on $500 a month your luxuries are going to be few and far between so why not go where they don't have them any how.

Also the US$ is at a high. This to shall pass It might go to 30 baht. It has been lower than that. right now it is on a roll.

I agree with Nancy's opinion on the author. Living here for a month on $500 is OK but living here for an extended period of time on it you would have to be a hermit.

[puukao]

TV needs to have memberships clearly labeled: Hi-So, like myself. Backpacker, most others. Old, all others.

I also propose ID cards for the wealthy. I would rather simply waive my card to the workers and be treated well, then wait with the stinky poor scavengers.

I will set up my i-phone to recognize people with money. Green light, talk to me. Red light, go away you peasants!!!

We need to wall off the city once again........1,000,000 baht gets you in, while all others wait at the other side of the wall for rotten apples to tossed over.

[NancyL]

NancyL,

How many people in the situation you describe, or a similar situation, do you think (or know) there are in Chiang Mai city?

Good question -- let's leave out the part about 84 years old and simply focus on people who are frail, living on limited means and without savings or a back-up plan if they have a major health crisis. I'd estimate there are several thousand foreigners in this situation in the area around Chiang Mai.

Consider that during the six weeks that Nakorn Ping hospital opened enrollment in their gov't health insurance program to non-migrant labor foreigners, they had 100 people enroll who were over age 60, with a surprising number over age 80 -- many in very poor health and in need of immediate attention.

Actually, I was wondering about people in a hospital or have been in and could not pay.... not the possibilities.

Personally, I don't think it is that big of a percentage of the foreigners that are here.

Ah, the problem is that you don't get "in" the hospital if you can't pay -- at least not the private hospitals.

At best they'll "stabilize" you in an emergency and move you to a gov't hospital like Suan Dok or Nakorn Ping pronto. At those places you'll receive basic lifesaving treatment -- i.e. they'll repair the hip of the 84 year old man hit by a tuk-tuk and figure out something about payment later, but they won't do that for an "elective" hip replacement for the same guy, i.e. someone with an old, arthritic hip that's become a painful bone-on-bone joint that now keeps him almost bedridden and nearly unable to walk.

Then there are the situations where guys die prematurely from conditions that are entirely treatable, had they been either detected or treated early enough. Like skin cancer, gangrene from diabetes, stroke due to high blood pressure, prostate cancer, colon cancer come to mind. I've seen guys die either because they ignored early warning signs since they didn't have money to seek treatment or they had actually sought treatment and the gov't hospital did the bare minimum once they realized the limited funds of the guy.

Edited January 23, 2014 by NancyL

[FiftyTwo]

Saw the title and thought 'oh no here we go again on the cheap charlie stories'

But then I thought US$ = 16400bht. Cheapo room = 3000bht. 13400/30 = 446 bht a day.

Unless there is something wrong with my math (always possible) , surely that isnt a major challenge, even without argument/discussion over 20 bht meals?

Breakfast at home -20bht, lunch and dinner out - 200bht total , 226 baht left over for 'luxuries' (!!)- or 1600bht a week.

Where am I going wrong?? Have I got a zero in the wrong place??

Well your math is right but you forgot to figure in utilities which raphe probably not cheap in those type places. Also you are assuming he only walks so he would be limited to the areas he could afford to live in.

What I was wondering is why would some body that cash strapped pick a city like Chiang Mai when there are a lot of cities and villages they could live in at a cheaper price. Lets face it on $500 a month your luxuries are going to be few and far between so why not go where they don't have them any how.

Also the US$ is at a high. This to shall pass It might go to 30 baht. It has been lower than that. right now it is on a roll.

I agree with Nancy's opinion on the author. Living here for a month on $500 is OK but living here for an extended period of time on it you would have to be a hermit.

and yet many pensioners manage to live in the uk on 20k pension, where everything is at least 3x more expensive.

when you are old, sitting in the sun, reading a book, drinking a latte is about as good as it can get.

[hml367]

NancyL,

How many people in the situation you describe, or a similar situation, do you think (or know) there are in Chiang Mai city?

Good question -- let's leave out the part about 84 years old and simply focus on people who are frail, living on limited means and without savings or a back-up plan if they have a major health crisis. I'd estimate there are several thousand foreigners in this situation in the area around Chiang Mai.

Consider that during the six weeks that Nakorn Ping hospital opened enrollment in their gov't health insurance program to non-migrant labor foreigners, they had 100 people enroll who were over age 60, with a surprising number over age 80 -- many in very poor health and in need of immediate attention.

Actually, I was wondering about people in a hospital or have been in and could not pay.... not the possibilities.

Personally, I don't think it is that big of a percentage of the foreigners that are here.

Ah, the problem is that you don't get "in" the hospital if you can't pay -- at least not the private hospitals.

At best they'll "stabilize" you in an emergency and move you to a gov't hospital like Suan Dok or Nakorn Ping pronto. At those places you'll receive basic lifesaving treatment -- i.e. they'll repair the hip of the 84 year old man hit by a tuk-tuk and figure out something about payment later, but they won't do that for an "elective" hip replacement for the same guy, i.e. someone with an old, arthritic hip that's become a painful bone-on-bone joint that now keeps him almost bedridden and nearly unable to walk.

Then there are the situations where guys die prematurely from conditions that are entirely treatable, had they been either detected or treated early enough. Like skin cancer, gangrene from diabetes, stroke due to high blood pressure, prostate cancer, colon cancer come to mind. I've seen guys die either because they ignored early warning signs since they didn't have money to seek treatment or they had actually sought treatment and the gov't hospital did the bare minimum once they realized the limited funds of the guy.

Fair enough. Now... my question still is how many happen like this? Do you know?

Certainly even one is a tragedy. However, I still don't think it is a major crisis any more, if not less, than in a foreigners home country.

[slipperylobster]

Ha ha !

One of those once in a lifetime stories. I went to Chiang Mai, at the Ratiallaa hotel, close to the Holiday Inn. One day I was lonely and went jogging.....met a lady across the street from the hotel at a beauty shop. She took me to every bar in Chiang Mai. Had four girls with her and a big bull dike would tag along. One girl was the ex gik of the mayor.....

Long story...but i was required to buy a mercedez benz. The ping river flooded, i had to carry the lady out ..nobody would help her. She staying in my room downtown..but nothing happened. Took all those gals to the Tiger bar, but the singer in the band had his way with all of them.

True story.... good luck mr 500 per month

[NancyL]

I'm involved with Lanna Care Net. Each month we become involved with 3 - 6 new cases of elderly foreigners with major medical problems that they can't afford to treat. In many cases, they die prematurely, often painfully, in conditions they'd never have to endure in their home countries.

I don't know -- you tell me. Is this a major crisis?

[slipperylobster]

Out two biggest monthly expenses (other than food) are housing and my daily ice tea... We chose to live in a larger sized apartment (2 bedrooms so one could be a den/desk space) withing walking distance of everything in the Old City. That expense could be cut in half if we moved outside the ring roads. I love ice tea, but it costs me 60 baht a day to order two glasses of it with my lunch. That's more than I pay for the food itself! A 10-baht bottle of water would save $50 a month just on tea...

Sure, one 'could' live in Chiang Mai on $500 a month. But I wouldn't want to.

Bring a cardboard box with you....for sleeping in. If you forget, go to big C. You can get free boxes there if you forget to bring one. The vegetables are not too bad before 6 p.m. in the dumpster. Good luck and happy retirement.

[hml367]

I'm involved with Lanna Care Net. Each month we become involved with 3 - 6 new cases of elderly foreigners with major medical problems that they can't afford to treat. In many cases, they die prematurely, often painfully, in conditions they'd never have to endure in their home countries.

I don't know -- you tell me. Is this a major crisis?

Yes, I would say a major crisis.

And you answered my question. That is all I was asking. Those numbers are much higher than I would have imagined.

Thank you.

EDIT: Some clarification.... it is a major crisis for the person involved. As a major crisis for the Thai health services, I don't think it is anywhere near the amount of Thai citizens in the same situations.

Using some recent numbers thrown about on TV, and your Lanna Care numbers..... a low estimate of Western foreigners in Chiang Mai is 15,000... very low. Say Lanna Care knows about half of the cases... 12 per month for a year is 72, so 0.48 per cent. Take into account the paying foreigners and I think it probably, at the least, offsets the non-paying foreigners.

I believe the percentage of Thai citizens that can't pay is much higher (just look at road accidents).

As for those that don't get treated, I think the percentage of Thai citizens is also much higher than foreigners.

As I said, one case is a tragedy.

Edited January 23, 2014 by hml367

[northernjohn]

As a young backpacker living on a shoestring, it wouldn't be a problem. I lived here on far less that $500 per month when I first arrived. Ate well on street Thai food and got drunk on laokao and chang 3 or 4 times each week. the other nights were early as I recovered from this abuse. I paid 2,500 baht for a room and I ran a 15 year-old honda dream. i did not want a relationship but had many 1 to 3 night stands with women who enjoyed a good time but knew they wouldn't get any money from me.

However, as a retired person I would want far more comfort. I would also need to consider medical costs. i would also like to be in a relationship which adds expense. I would want a feeling of financial security.

How long ago was it you were back packing? Could be like $1,000 today or even more.

[mania]

In a recent article, Kathleen Peddicord stated that expats of all ages living in Ecuador could now get full medical coverage under the country's government health plan (social security) for only $70 per month. Pre-existing conditions are covered too. Let's hope Thailand can do the same in the near future so elderly expats living in Thailand can get the care they deserve.

Not to pick on you but that just sounds wrong

Why should Thailand who does for 70 million of their own what it barely can, also be saddled with caring for expats

that hail from much richer countries?

Care they deserve?

[onthedarkside]

and yet many pensioners manage to live in the uk on 20k pension, where everything is at least 3x more expensive.

when you are old, sitting in the sun, reading a book, drinking a latte is about as good as it can get.

Mmmm .... but they don't have to worry about medical expenses in the UK. It's all free on the NHS.

[rhodie]

The article says it costs $1100 per month to live a basic life in Chiang Mai, excluding transport.

I must be reading a different article since I could not find any reference to your statement. Perhaps you can copy/paste that reference.

" In any of the eight appealing, affordable and walkable cities on my list, you could almost live on that $916 per month."

The statement above is in the article. So I imagine $1100 would be reasonable to assume anyway. And clearly the $500 is referring to rental on a property only. But why let a good story get in the way of facts.

Edited January 23, 2014 by rhodie

[slipperylobster]

`In New york city you can get a free room, free food, and free medical. Thats not BS. You will not get it in Thailand.

[Thighlander]

They have "free" medical in Canada, too. But, The Cleveland Clinic is the hip replacement capital of Canada (and it's not in Canada). Perhaps one of you lefties could explain that.

[umbanda]

Out two biggest monthly expenses (other than food) are housing and my daily ice tea... We chose to live in a larger sized apartment (2 bedrooms so one could be a den/desk space) withing walking distance of everything in the Old City. That expense could be cut in half if we moved outside the ring roads. I love ice tea, but it costs me 60 baht a day to order two glasses of it with my lunch. That's more than I pay for the food itself! A 10-baht bottle of water would save $50 a month just on tea...

Sure, one 'could' live in Chiang Mai on $500 a month. But I wouldn't want to.

If you like tea so much like me, but you are worry about the cost.....Go to a local street market where "ordinary" people buy goods, and ask for the cheapest Thai tea " Number One Brand", red, green, or yellow type from 60THB for 400 grs. I think is better than any expensive tea on the market...and so good that I am sending to my friends in the US and I pass that info to many "high class" Thai people that never knew about. You have to brew it your self in a coffee or tea maker (350THB in Big C) and you will have tea for months.

[umbanda]

I you do not drink and smoke, do not like to go out every night, and you do not like to paid for sex, you can live very well with $500 TOTAL expenses in Thailand. How?....Renting OUT the tourist areas of Chiang Mai, a nice place, even a small house, not just a room, for not more of $150/month, not using the AC too much, brewing your coffee if you drink much, and eating in streets and markets "restaurants"....and using ONLY 15 THB mini buses for transportation. For fun, get on the Internet and meet local girls from 18 to 45. Thai women always look younger than Western women. Be direct and franc with them about your financial situation, many will reject you, many will meet you for a cheap date. At your age it is easier to make friends here than older people. Always greet and smile EVERY women you see and like, and ask for "directions"...and a date. Nothing to lose with that....You may meet a new good friend...or a good new lover....In the last case...use condoms EVERY time.

Believe me....If you discipline your self in not wasting money with "superfluous" or unhealthy things....not getting into the tourist or bar scene, you will be surprise how much you can do with that money in Thailand. If you get bored...get a teaching job, even not well paid, You will meet nice people... take your time to know the culture, the customs, no rush with important decision...and...who knows? Welcome to Thailand!

[NancyL]

They have "free" medical in Canada, too. But, The Cleveland Clinic is the hip replacement capital of Canada (and it's not in Canada). Perhaps one of you lefties could explain that.

It's because in Canada they don't have a viable private health care system, so people have to live with long wait times for "elective" procedures like replacement of a degenerated hip in their gov't health care system.

It's my understanding that in England, they have a combination of both public and private health care which seems like a good blend. Actually, it seems to be similar in Thailand. A traumatic hip fracture is going to receive the urgent care it needs in the gov't system. Someone with a degenerative hip problem is going to be placed on a waiting list. If they don't like the wait, they can go to a private hospital and pay for short wait times for a hip replacement.

That option doesn't exist in Canada and thus, Canadians who can afford private care can elect to come to the U.S. for short wait times.

****************************

To address another misconception from another poster:

Thai citizens aren't creating unpaid medical bills for Thai hospitals.

All Thai citizens are covered by some form of gov't health care -- the 30 baht health program is the insurance of last resort for Thai citizens who otherwise aren't covered by some other form of insurance. Sometimes it's very frustrating for their Thai family members, that the 3 - 6 new cases we see each month at Lanna Care Net are not receiving the same health care that they would receive.

Edited January 23, 2014 by NancyL

[chooka]

If you lived in a really cheap room with no aircon and only ate in the 20 baht vegetarian restaurants all over town, you could do it, but it would not be fun.

We own our home and car and don't have any debts and can live quite well on around 15K baht per month. 80% of our meals a prepared at home. Having said that tho we do fork out around 45K every 3 months for the sons education and if we didn't have him then no problems living on 500 dollars. If we had to pay rent etc then I would say no way could we do it.

[Thighlander]

It's only a mixed system in the UK because 7 million went out and bought private insurance on their own.

[hml367]

They have "free" medical in Canada, too. But, The Cleveland Clinic is the hip replacement capital of Canada (and it's not in Canada). Perhaps one of you lefties could explain that.

It's because in Canada they don't have a viable private health care system, so people have to live with long wait times for "elective" procedures like replacement of a degenerated hip in their gov't health care system.

It's my understanding that in England, they have a combination of both public and private health care which seems like a good blend. Actually, it seems to be similar in Thailand. A traumatic hip fracture is going to receive the urgent care it needs in the gov't system. Someone with a degenerative hip problem is going to be placed on a waiting list. If they don't like the wait, they can go to a private hospital and pay for short wait times for a hip replacement.

That option doesn't exist in Canada and thus, Canadians who can afford private care can elect to come to the U.S. for short wait times.

****************************

To address another misconception from another poster:

Thai citizens aren't creating unpaid medical bills for Thai hospitals.

All Thai citizens are covered by some form of gov't health care -- the 30 baht health program is the insurance of last resort for Thai citizens who otherwise aren't covered by some other form of insurance. So, Thai

Point taken/.

[mimithewoof]

As with most threads on this forum, this one's going round in circles again and again, with nothing read being either understood or accepted as fact.

If I read one more post from a USA expat about the UKs free NHS, Ill be the one needing hospitalisation! Government cuts in my country have rendered an ailing system totally ineffective, especially for the elderly. How about this for a plan to save money, guys? If youre terminally ill and very old, your condition will be analysed and youll be put on a no water, no food regime resulting in your death. Even if you are likely to recover and are not on that regime, the standard of care is so poor in local hospitals that family members have to come in and make sure youre eating your food. No family ? Tough. Sound familiar? Children die due to system failures or mis-diagnosis every week across my country. I wouldnt take one of my dogs near an NHS hospital, and had private heath insurance throughout my life in the UK although I never needed to use it.

Point 2 men and their health quite simply, theyre babies when it come to looking after themselves for many it seems to be party central here as regards drinking,. happy endings and other such activities. No wonder health in old age in CM isnt what it should be the human immune system, like bank accounts, can only take so much before it rolls over and dies. Its not rocket science to calculate how long savings will last, or to ensure the last days of ones life are at least comfortable. Which brings me to my next (repeated) point

How many of the terminally old and sick here had enough money when they arrived, but fell foul of the various styles of scam perpetrated by expats and Thais alike? Marriage breaks down? Youve lost all your dosh spent on a house, sick buffaloes and extended families. Tempted by the promise of high investment returns? Kiss your cash goodbye. Live high on the hog? Same same. Solution? Dont leave your brains at your departure airport. No-ones immune to fraud and no-ones perfect, but the concept of humanity suggests that we should help those in need or, at the very least, dont slam them for being human.

Enter Lanna Care Net a welcome, belated glow in the darkness of impecunious old age to a good few of the (maybe) 20,000 expats living here. But given that Gates, Buffet and Zuckerberg have just pledged half their combined billions to charity shouldnt the community do more? Especially those who constantly complain they cant live here on less than $2,000 a month? Im beginning to suspect that there isnt an expat community here, just a number of ethnic groups sniping at each other. Including me, of course

A special note to 52 please, please dont tell me that UK pensioners can live on the amount you suggest thats just uninformed bullshit. They dont live they just exist, which is why so many are leaving or dying of cold as they cant afford to eat and heat. .

Yes, as stated, every death is a tragedy but we shouldnt expect Lanna Care Net on its own to pick up all the pieces. For all you guys who live the high life on US pensions and successful investments the cost of just one less upscale 1,000-baht meal a week soon adds up to help for the less fortunate. Its fashionable nowadays to donate to charities supporting dogs, (I have five rescued dogs so understand this), refugees, etc, but shouldnt we be supporting our own people first, wherever we come from?

OK, thats my take, but Im not about to post again on this thread, Im angry and sick to death of reading BS which does nothing to address the issue.

[northernjohn]

They have "free" medical in Canada, too. But, The Cleveland Clinic is the hip replacement capital of Canada (and it's not in Canada). Perhaps one of you lefties could explain that.

It's because in Canada they don't have a viable private health care system, so people have to live with long wait times for "elective" procedures like replacement of a degenerated hip in their gov't health care system.

It's my understanding that in England, they have a combination of both public and private health care which seems like a good blend. Actually, it seems to be similar in Thailand. A traumatic hip fracture is going to receive the urgent care it needs in the gov't system. Someone with a degenerative hip problem is going to be placed on a waiting list. If they don't like the wait, they can go to a private hospital and pay for short wait times for a hip replacement.

That option doesn't exist in Canada and thus, Canadians who can afford private care can elect to come to the U.S. for short wait times.

****************************

To address another misconception from another poster:

Thai citizens aren't creating unpaid medical bills for Thai hospitals.

All Thai citizens are covered by some form of gov't health care -- the 30 baht health program is the insurance of last resort for Thai citizens who otherwise aren't covered by some other form of insurance. Sometimes it's very frustrating for their Thai family members, that the 3 - 6 new cases we see each month at Lanna Care Net are not receiving the same health care that they would receive.

Also my mother in law has the Thai health care. Yet it cost me 1,000 baht a month for a shot she needs.

[Lockheed]

One would hope that the majority of people who read this article would do there figures and at least visit the country a few times prior to retirement and then slowly ease into full-time residency, technically I won't retire for another ten or so years but I'm starting to plan now so hopefully when the time comes, the picture will be clearer.

[FiftyTwo]

They have "free" medical in Canada, too. But, The Cleveland Clinic is the hip replacement capital of Canada (and it's not in Canada). Perhaps one of you lefties could explain that.

It's because in Canada they don't have a viable private health care system, so people have to live with long wait times for "elective" procedures like replacement of a degenerated hip in their gov't health care system.

It's my understanding that in England, they have a combination of both public and private health care which seems like a good blend. Actually, it seems to be similar in Thailand. A traumatic hip fracture is going to receive the urgent care it needs in the gov't system. Someone with a degenerative hip problem is going to be placed on a waiting list. If they don't like the wait, they can go to a private hospital and pay for short wait times for a hip replacement.

You understand wrong.

UK same as Canada.

Private health care very expensive, nobody but the very rich would consider a private hip replacement.

[FiftyTwo]

As with most threads on this forum, this one's going round in circles again and again, with nothing read being either understood or accepted as fact.

If I read one more post from a USA expat about the UKs free NHS, Ill be the one needing hospitalisation! Government cuts in my country have rendered an ailing system totally ineffective, especially for the elderly. How about this for a plan to save money, guys? If youre terminally ill and very old, your condition will be analysed and youll be put on a no water, no food regime resulting in your death. Even if you are likely to recover and are not on that regime, the standard of care is so poor in local hospitals that family members have to come in and make sure youre eating your food. No family ? Tough. Sound familiar? Children die due to system failures or mis-diagnosis every week across my country. I wouldnt take one of my dogs near an NHS hospital, and had private heath insurance throughout my life in the UK although I never needed to use it.

Point 2 men and their health quite simply, theyre babies when it come to looking after themselves for many it seems to be party central here as regards drinking,. happy endings and other such activities. No wonder health in old age in CM isnt what it should be the human immune system, like bank accounts, can only take so much before it rolls over and dies. Its not rocket science to calculate how long savings will last, or to ensure the last days of ones life are at least comfortable. Which brings me to my next (repeated) point

How many of the terminally old and sick here had enough money when they arrived, but fell foul of the various styles of scam perpetrated by expats and Thais alike? Marriage breaks down? Youve lost all your dosh spent on a house, sick buffaloes and extended families. Tempted by the promise of high investment returns? Kiss your cash goodbye. Live high on the hog? Same same. Solution? Dont leave your brains at your departure airport. No-ones immune to fraud and no-ones perfect, but the concept of humanity suggests that we should help those in need or, at the very least, dont slam them for being human.

Enter Lanna Care Net a welcome, belated glow in the darkness of impecunious old age to a good few of the (maybe) 20,000 expats living here. But given that Gates, Buffet and Zuckerberg have just pledged half their combined billions to charity shouldnt the community do more? Especially those who constantly complain they cant live here on less than $2,000 a month? Im beginning to suspect that there isnt an expat community here, just a number of ethnic groups sniping at each other. Including me, of course

A special note to 52 please, please dont tell me that UK pensioners can live on the amount you suggest thats just uninformed bullshit. They dont live they just exist, which is why so many are leaving or dying of cold as they cant afford to eat and heat. .

Yes, as stated, every death is a tragedy but we shouldnt expect Lanna Care Net on its own to pick up all the pieces. For all you guys who live the high life on US pensions and successful investments the cost of just one less upscale 1,000-baht meal a week soon adds up to help for the less fortunate. Its fashionable nowadays to donate to charities supporting dogs, (I have five rescued dogs so understand this), refugees, etc, but shouldnt we be supporting our own people first, wherever we come from?

OK, thats my take, but Im not about to post again on this thread, Im angry and sick to death of reading BS which does nothing to address the issue.

Very accurate!

But one small error, I wasn't suggesting UK pensioners live well on 20k a month, just that it's what they are expected to live on. You must agree your standard of living in CM on 20k/month would be far better than your standard of living in the UK on 20k/month.