Thai govt plans to seek Bt130 billion to pay angry farmers

[jonesthebaker]

So who pays for the crop after this one...and the one after that?

an excellent point. these morons in positions of authority should be held accountable for the mess they are saddling the poor thai people with for generations to come. also, if they take on the 2.2 trillion loan (5 trillion with interest) they will be forced to raise taxes on everything - utilitys, fuel, food, clothing, etc etc etc .... to pay back the loan.

uneducated thais are lambs to the slaughter. but mr thaksin he good - he care for us we same same he

[Thait Spot]

Apart from the (usual and boring) bad mouthing, does anyone have any realistic and reasonable suggestion as to how the farmers can be paid? Or are you lot saying that the farmers should not be paid?

The big problem here is the massive amount of money that is needed. High rice crops now need 180 billion - Six billion USD.

Due to the restrictions that are in place, the government cannot do anything that will increase the burden on the following government and this puts them in a predicament.

The easiest way would be to sell 15 million tonnes at market value but with the government having shown that they are not very good at selling rice and having put those people who were out of a job, I don't see this option being viable.

Looking to borrow the money might be the quickest solution but could see the government banned.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Gweiloman]

Maybe the rice farmers should have saved a little from the previous over priced crops ??

But that would be asking far too much...

Whilst I feel for them because they are being royally screwed, to some extent they deserve it..

If you lay down with dogs you get up with fleas. If the farmer sold their rice through the normal channels then they wouldn't get as much but they would be paid already. It was their choice to join this corrupt scheme, that defrauds from the tax payer and now they get a taste of the bitter rewards, that's Karma.

It has been clear for some time that the rice scam was unsustainable. PTP admitted this, but caved in to their farmers support base when they objected to curtailing it. Now that it is collapsing under a mountain of debt, I am asked to feel sympathy for those involved in a criminal conspiracy to direct tax dollars into their bank accounts.

Sorry, no sale.

Some of you positively make me sick. You talk about fair play, equality, democracy and yet condemn and say just desserts to the poor farmers who are merely trying to build a better life for themselves and their loved ones. Shame on you.

And to that poster that mentioned karma, be careful what you wish for.

[soi41]

Maybe the rice farmers should have saved a little from the previous over priced crops ??

But that would be asking far too much...

Whilst I feel for them because they are being royally screwed, to some extent they deserve it..

Thais planning for tomorrow??

What time did your plane touch down yesterday??

[Wombat6]

Why not just borrow it from the police dept? they always seem to have extra cash!

Or from the PM;s brother....they would be guaranteed to retain the rice farmers vote and he should back his silly idea instead of putting it on the Thao citizens and nation to pay for votes.

[Gweiloman]

Apart from the (usual and boring) bad mouthing, does anyone have any realistic and reasonable suggestion as to how the farmers can be paid? Or are you lot saying that the farmers should not be paid?

The big problem here is the massive amount of money that is needed. High rice crops now need 180 billion - Six billion USD.

Due to the restrictions that are in place, the government cannot do anything that will increase the burden on the following government and this puts them in a predicament.

The easiest way would be to sell 15 million tonnes at market value but with the government having shown that they are not very good at selling rice and having put those people who were out of a job, I don't see this option being viable.

Looking to borrow the money might be the quickest solution but could see the government banned.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I thought the EC has said that the caretaker govt is not allowed to sell the rice? Or did I read / understand wrongly?

[Thait Spot]

Maybe the rice farmers should have saved a little from the previous over priced crops ??

But that would be asking far too much...

Whilst I feel for them because they are being royally screwed, to some extent they deserve it..

If you lay down with dogs you get up with fleas. If the farmer sold their rice through the normal channels then they wouldn't get as much but they would be paid already. It was their choice to join this corrupt scheme, that defrauds from the tax payer and now they get a taste of the bitter rewards, that's Karma.

It has been clear for some time that the rice scam was unsustainable. PTP admitted this, but caved in to their farmers support base when they objected to curtailing it. Now that it is collapsing under a mountain of debt, I am asked to feel sympathy for those involved in a criminal conspiracy to direct tax dollars into their bank accounts.

Sorry, no sale.

Some of you positively make me sick. You talk about fair play, equality, democracy and yet condemn and say just desserts to the poor farmers who are merely trying to build a better life for themselves and their loved ones. Shame on you.

And to that poster that mentioned karma, be careful what you wish for.

How do you think the other poor farmers feel? Those in the south. Those that grow other crops.

I do feel sorry for the rice farmers but they have received preferential treatment

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[JRSoul]

Maybe the rice farmers should have saved a little from the previous over priced crops ??

But that would be asking far too much...

Whilst I feel for them because they are being royally screwed, to some extent they deserve it..

If you lay down with dogs you get up with fleas. If the farmer sold their rice through the normal channels then they wouldn't get as much but they would be paid already. It was their choice to join this corrupt scheme, that defrauds from the tax payer and now they get a taste of the bitter rewards, that's Karma.

It has been clear for some time that the rice scam was unsustainable. PTP admitted this, but caved in to their farmers support base when they objected to curtailing it. Now that it is collapsing under a mountain of debt, I am asked to feel sympathy for those involved in a criminal conspiracy to direct tax dollars into their bank accounts.

Sorry, no sale.

Some of you positively make me sick. You talk about fair play, equality, democracy and yet condemn and say just desserts to the poor farmers who are merely trying to build a better life for themselves and their loved ones. Shame on you.

And to that poster that mentioned karma, be careful what you wish for.

Well have a big spit on me. Poor farmers who don't want to give up their lifestyle, which isn't good enough even when sending their children off to prostitution, are willing to sell their votes to a criminal offering obvious overpayment for their produce. Even when it becomes clear they are robbing other taxpayers of government services and infrastructure they insist it continues. They may eventually get paid for this crop, but the next is going to cause a very rude awakening. Small scale farming of rice is a 3rd world business, with appropriate returns. If you want a better lifestyle, get a better job, even if it involves moving.

[soi41]

"About 10.4 million tonnes of extra paddy - worth Bt167 billion"

Lie ! That is the inflated price to be paid, much more than it is worth.

Come on guys, how are the poor middlemen going to survive without their 50%??

Like Ms Buldozer Shinawatra from CM with her ricetrading company!!

"Somchai, Somchai I told you not to use the sacks for the useless rice, we need them for the money"

"Yes dear"

[winstonc]

Bathism at it's best: If we don't get paid we change sides. However, please respect my vote...

correct.....

[Gweiloman]

How do you think the other poor farmers feel? Those in the south. Those that grow other crops.

I do feel sorry for the rice farmers but they have received preferential treatment

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Sorry, but I don't see how that is relevant to the current topic. Have those farmers not been paid for their crops as well?

[soi41]

Well have a big spit on me. Poor farmers who don't want to give up their lifestyle, which isn't good enough even when sending their children off to prostitution, are willing to sell their votes to a criminal offering obvious overpayment for their produce. Even when it becomes clear they are robbing other taxpayers of government services and infrastructure they insist it continues. They may eventually get paid for this crop, but the next is going to cause a very rude awakening. Small scale farming of rice is a 3rd world business, with appropriate returns. If you want a better lifestyle, get a better job, even if it involves moving.

Well my friend, you are simplifying it just a little!!

After being denied a proper education for decades, it is not just to move and the honey will start flowing!

The solution is ofcourse, they have get even better skills in growing rice. Maybe under supervision of one of the many Royal projects? Maybe go together and create farming cooperatives, with shared costs for bigger investments. The solution is not going to a buildingsite in Bangkok, because that will never get them out of poverty.

But IMO the solution is to educate themselves (with help) to become the best ricefarmers in the world!

[Melyn]

How do you think the other poor farmers feel? Those in the south. Those that grow other crops.

I do feel sorry for the rice farmers but they have received preferential treatment

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Sorry, but I don't see how that is relevant to the current topic. Have those farmers not been paid for their crops as well?

I believe it was you that brought up the subject of fair play and equality.

Those farmers have real markets they sell to. They are also subject to world market fluctuations. They are skint but largely live in the real world

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[siampolee]

A number of somewhat perplexing questions comes to mind.

When the rice pledging scam scheme was mooted and later introduced was there any consideration as the the source or even the availability of the necessary funds to finance the scam scheme?

Or was it the intent of the P.T.P.puppets to actually delay payments so as to prolong the payment period with their practiced mendacious habits or actually welch on the payments by introducing some deceitful credit scheme where the actual rice producer actually ends up funding the deal themselves, much like the ''credit card for farmers scam scheme? Said credit card being only valid in approved outlets?

Now we see that the interest rates for financing the governments non payments on the rice pleading scam scheme has now been reduced to 3.5%. Indeed a wonderful ploy to get those who are awaiting payment to take out loans from the participating banks thus the interest paid by the farmers it would seem goes towards the payment of their just dues.

Indeed a P.T.P. puppet ponzi scheme that defies belief. All rather like turkeys voting for Christmas is it not?

[Thait Spot]

How do you think the other poor farmers feel? Those in the south. Those that grow other crops.

I do feel sorry for the rice farmers but they have received preferential treatment

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Sorry, but I don't see how that is relevant to the current topic. Have those farmers not been paid for their crops as well?

Those farmers are just as impoverished but had no opportunity to sell at vastly inflated prices to the government.

Why? Location, location, location

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[SjaakNL2013]

If the Thaksin Party want any votes they need to buy them now. And that is exact what they do, buy rice farmer votes from Thai taxpayers money.

[JRSoul]

Well have a big spit on me. Poor farmers who don't want to give up their lifestyle, which isn't good enough even when sending their children off to prostitution, are willing to sell their votes to a criminal offering obvious overpayment for their produce. Even when it becomes clear they are robbing other taxpayers of government services and infrastructure they insist it continues. They may eventually get paid for this crop, but the next is going to cause a very rude awakening. Small scale farming of rice is a 3rd world business, with appropriate returns. If you want a better lifestyle, get a better job, even if it involves moving.

Well my friend, you are simplifying it just a little!!

After being denied a proper education for decades, it is not just to move and the honey will start flowing!

The solution is ofcourse, they have get even better skills in growing rice. Maybe under supervision of one of the many Royal projects? Maybe go together and create farming cooperatives, with shared costs for bigger investments. The solution is not going to a buildingsite in Bangkok, because that will never get them out of poverty.

But IMO the solution is to educate themselves (with help) to become the best ricefarmers in the world!

Get your hand of your sympathy button and on to your calculator. A few acres of rice doesn't produce enough income for a decent lifestyle, no matter how good you are, and most here only dream of a farm that size. If you can find a market for hand-polished, honey dipped and gold plated rice, good luck to you. Otherwise broad-acre farmers will run rings around you as far as productivity and cost are concerned.

[Gweiloman]

How do you think the other poor farmers feel? Those in the south. Those that grow other crops.

I do feel sorry for the rice farmers but they have received preferential treatment

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Sorry, but I don't see how that is relevant to the current topic. Have those farmers not been paid for their crops as well?

I believe it was you that brought up the subject of fair play and equality.

Those farmers have real markets they sell to. They are also subject to world market fluctuations. They are skint but largely live in the real world

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

My comment on fair play and equality was directed at those posters who are saying som naa naa to farmers who are now not getting paid. Regardless of political persuasion, a contract is a contract and should be honoured.

The issue of whether there should be a similar scheme for other crops is another topic. In other countries around the world, some produce are subsidised and some aren't. That does not mean it's unfair, it's a matter of economics.

[BlueNoseCodger]

The big problem here is the massive amount of money that is needed. High rice crops now need 180 billion - Six billion USD.

Due to the restrictions that are in place, the government cannot do anything that will increase the burden on the following government and this puts them in a predicament.

The easiest way would be to sell 15 million tonnes at market value but with the government having shown that they are not very good at selling rice and having put those people who were out of a job, I don't see this option being viable.

Looking to borrow the money might be the quickest solution but could see the government banned.

$6 billion dollars in a budget on $88 billion that benefits 38.2% of the country. Yehhhh how terrible! It's the end of the world.... not!

Likewise Government is not allowed to borrow the money, because your EC won't let them borrow it. So they're saying to banks to borrow the money then lend it to farmers against the value of the rice pledge at commercial banking rates. EC doesn't have a say if banks in Thailand can borrow and lend money, but I'm sure Somchai will be out there doing his talking points.

[harrry]

Thai Council of State – a department coming directly under the authority of the Prime Minister of Thailand, having the duty to render legal advices to state agencies and state enterprises as may be required.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_State

No wonder it agreed with her

[cornishcarlos]

How do you think the other poor farmers feel? Those in the south. Those that grow other crops.

I do feel sorry for the rice farmers but they have received preferential treatment

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Sorry, but I don't see how that is relevant to the current topic. Have those farmers not been paid for their crops as well?

They get paid for their crops at the low international rate.

However, just like the farmers up North, many are still waiting for the bonus subsidy (for fertilizers) that was promised just a couple of months back. Why was this promised ? To stop them protesting and blocking the highway (sound familiar). Plus, just like their Northern counterparts, they all queued up pretty damn quickly when a free handout was put on the table.

Next time you highlight part of my post, highlight the whole sentence and it will change the context dramatically

[Gweiloman]

How do you think the other poor farmers feel? Those in the south. Those that grow other crops.

I do feel sorry for the rice farmers but they have received preferential treatment

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Sorry, but I don't see how that is relevant to the current topic. Have those farmers not been paid for their crops as well?

They get paid for their crops at the low international rate.

However, just like the farmers up North, many are still waiting for the bonus subsidy (for fertilizers) that was promised just a couple of months back. Why was this promised ? To stop them protesting and blocking the highway (sound familiar). Plus, just like their Northern counterparts, they all queued up pretty dam_n quickly when a free handout was put on the table.

Next time you highlight part of my post, highlight the whole sentence and it will change the context dramatically

"Whilst I feel for them because they are being royally screwed, to some extent they deserve it."

My bad.

[cornishcarlos]

Correct, your bad...

[khunken]

Well it's a conundrum.

I agree that, as the farmers handed over their rice on the understanding that they would be paid (a contract), they should be paid.

The issue of the whole scheme being unsustainable and the fact that the per hectare output falls short of world standards - is irrelevant. So how to pay them?

Raising the money through bonds is not a quick process and their attempts to get the BAAC to dip into their reserves or employee pension funds is despicable.

As I posted before the caretaker mob should be persuading the retail banks to grant the farmers loans based on the collateral of their credit receipts for the pledged rice.

[sapson]

How do you think the other poor farmers feel? Those in the south. Those that grow other crops.

I do feel sorry for the rice farmers but they have received preferential treatment

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Sorry, but I don't see how that is relevant to the current topic. Have those farmers not been paid for their crops as well?

They get paid for their crops at the low international rate.

However, just like the farmers up North, many are still waiting for the bonus subsidy (for fertilizers) that was promised just a couple of months back. Why was this promised ? To stop them protesting and blocking the highway (sound familiar). Plus, just like their Northern counterparts, they all queued up pretty dam_n quickly when a free handout was put on the table.

Next time you highlight part of my post, highlight the whole sentence and it will change the context dramatically

"Whilst I feel for them because they are being royally screwed, to some extent they deserve it."

My bad.

Im in need of an update on my internet forum savvy.

Above a clearly written and concise reply but followed with....................... My bad???? What does that mean? is that teen speak? baseball hat worn backwards speak?? or a simply a snippet of 21st century witty rhetoric.? Is it an advisory of the way you which us to feel about your post?

Well in 20th century style I,m bug##ered if I see the point of it!!

Whilst Im in Victor Meldrew mode ........why oh why the continuing advisory after so many posts about which ble##ding mobile phone the post was sent from!! who gives a sh@#$t how you sent your response?

Be honest guys and girls doesnt it annoy the cr#p out of you! Is it mandatory for this website or do people actually proudly type in the model number etc of their mobile phone?

Rant over

Sent by morse code from a Russian nuclear submarine using an application of ky on my finger!!

Edited January 26, 2014 by ubonjoe
Moved reply from quoted text.

[BlueNoseCodger]

Well it's a conundrum.

I agree that, as the farmers handed over their rice on the understanding that they would be paid (a contract), they should be paid.

The issue of the whole scheme being unsustainable and the fact that the per hectare output falls short of world standards - is irrelevant. So how to pay them?

Raising the money through bonds is not a quick process and their attempts to get the BAAC to dip into their reserves or employee pension funds is despicable.

As I posted before the caretaker mob should be persuading the retail banks to grant the farmers loans based on the collateral of their credit receipts for the pledged rice.

Despicable?

BAAC is a bank, the rice pledge is debt owed by the government so the capital has the same credit worthiness as the government. If they can make 7% from a farmer against a debt owed by the government, then that's good business.

[tingtongteesood]

So the scam can continue. No doubt the missunderstood fugitive will find the big loan. Cambodia? Have a deal with the oil in the gulf in return? So the feb 2 election must be stopped or deemed unlawful. Allowing the shinaclan a few more years of stealing is no option. Thai people will be paying for decades for the 2.2 trillion loan.

AMEN to that !!!

[tingtongteesood]

Amazing how quiet the red lovers go when the rice scam rears its ugly head ain't it.....

[attrayant]

You talk about fair play, equality, democracy and yet condemn and say just desserts to the poor farmers...

Now I've got this mental image of rice farmers enjoying a nice strawberry shortcake.

Anyway, from the OP:

That decision could help boost Pheu Thai Party's popularity in the upcoming election, as farmers have threatened to drop their support for the party if they are not compensated for rice submitted to the pledging scheme since October.

I'm confused by that. How does farmers dropping support for the PTP help boost its popularity?

Edited January 25, 2014 by attrayant

[LarryBird]

As sad and hurtful as this is to the Thai rice farmers,.. it's all part of the meltdown factor necessary to bringing down the YL government.

They have shown their true colors and gone from shining saviors to deceitful liars in a short time and this will destroy them in the eyes of their most ardent supporters if it all does go south.

Oh how the mighty have fallen!

This is what should have happened, and makes what suthep did counter productive.