Snake in garden

[turner34]

Can anybody identify this snake for me please.

Found it in the garden today (Pattaya) & it scared the living daylights out of my G/F, but then again it was only the middle of last Year that she was bitten by a Malayan Pit Viper & nearly died, so i can understand why she screamed so loud.

I'm not sure if it's another Malayan Pit Viper or not, but she seems convinced that it is & it's shaken her a fair bit.

Hopefully there's somebody out there who might be able to help us.

Many Thanks

[Showbags]

No its not and while I dislike the usual killing of snakes for no real reason other than ...so scarey...I totally understand it from your angle and the wifes, might have even done the same meself if one had nearly killed me.

[turner34]

Showbags, thanks for the reply.

Do you happen to recognise what it is then, just to put her mind at ease.

Yes,unfortunately it didn't stand a chance, as she was working in the garden when it struck out near where she was & she replied with the garden spade she had in her hands (totally non thinking reaction on her part) ......................................................... and before she starts to get abuse for killing it, i'm with her on this one, if i had gone through what she went through.

[Showbags]

here tis..

http://www.thailandsnakes.com/non-venomous/brown-kukri-snake-non-venomous-not-dangerous/c

[Sheryl]

Moving this to the pets/plants forum as that is where our resident snake experts hang out....

[kannot]

Its a Kukri snake totally harmless ......http://www.siam-info.com/english/snakes_oligodon.html

(ngu kut)

Edited January 26, 2014 by kannot

[kannot]

here tis..

http://www.thailandsnakes.com/non-venomous/brown-kukri-snake-non-venomous-not-dangerous/c

No it isnt a whip snake.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

http://www.siam-info.com/english/snakes_common.html

http://www.thailandsnakes.com/

[Showbags]

here tis..

http://www.thailandsnakes.com/non-venomous/brown-kukri-snake-non-venomous-not-dangerous/c

No it isnt a whip snake.

No its not...link seems to have screwed up it was a link to the Kukri

http://www.thailandsnakes.com/non-venomous/brown-kukri-snake-non-venomous-not-dangerous/

[kannot]

here tis..

http://www.thailandsnakes.com/non-venomous/brown-kukri-snake-non-venomous-not-dangerous/c

No it isnt a whip snake.

No its not...link seems to have screwed up it was a link to the Kukri

http://www.thailandsnakes.com/non-venomous/brown-kukri-snake-non-venomous-not-dangerous/

Although harmless it will still bite and inflict a bloody wound but has no venom.

[Showbags]

tell me about it...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/695047-snakes-and-rabies/

[Trickcyclist]

Can the gentleman whose wife was importuned by a snake kindly provide details of near fatal pit viper bite of a year ago that nearly killed his wife e.g.:-

1. How she survived the pit viper bite?
2. What part of the body was bitten.
2, What treatment she was given, initially and subsequently?
3. Any further helpful advice

Reason I ask is that occasionally I run into these pit vipers, who are, in my opinion, aggressive and repulsive buggers and I narrowly missed being bitten and wish to know how I can prepare for any future potential bite.

Incidentally, I believe in live and let live and I don't mind snakes as long as they keep to their side of the road and allow me to stay on mine. However, they come into the garden in all shapes and sizes. Some of them even hang about the sauce pans rack etc etc. in the outside kitchen creating mayhem among the women folk and the doggie woggies.

Also, this business about not harming the harmless variety. How can one tell if they are harmless or not in the instant that one sees one? Reminds me of the story of the new arrival with the US Army in Vietnam recounted to me by a Marine sergeant years ago. The rookie was on his first patrol in the jungle trying to root out some North Vietnamese. He surprised one behind a tree and not sure that he was North Vietnamese, or, not - obviously not having had the pleasure of meeting one before-decided that it was good manners to ask before he shot him. Unfortunately for the rookie the answer was in the affirmative. He never got his shot off and he went home in a body bag.RIP.

[Toscano]

We've had a snake in the garden a couple of times , each time the same kind , not venemous . My wife always swears that every snake she sees is a King

Cobra .

These were not , my wife killed the first one with a long handled trowel . I have always had a fear of snakes , but believe in letting creatures live as

long as they don't bother me . The second snake we manage to put over our garden wall into fields . If I go walking in the country , I wear strong hiking

shoes and my leather riding half chaps and carry a walking stick . Pythons are found in or near swamps and Cobras like bamboo thickets . A friend who lives nearby has 2rai of mown pasture , where lots of snakes come out of neighbouring Casava

[sirchai]

I'd reckon to eat it. Some taste like chicken.-

[turner34]

To Trickcyclist

She managed to get herself to the Hospital in less than 1 Hour, where she received 5 doses of the Anti-Venom & a few days being monitored very closely.

She was bitten on the top part of her foot & almost instantly her leg swelled up & she wasn't able to walk, let alone drive. Luckily she was able to get hold of the Lady who opens the gate to our housing village & she went with another lady on a scooter straight to the Hospital.

When she was released from Hospital she needed to go back for regular blood tests & check up's, to make sure there weren't going to be any long term complications (internal organs failing etc).She was eventually given the all clear, much to our relief, hence her reaction to seeing the snake come out of the bushes at her yesterday

[pizzaman]

Have had Cobras a few times at our garden. I then put out a variety of mothballs and cobras disappears instantly. Will repeat mothballs about once a year. Do not know if this helps also against other snakes, but why not try to get rid of them.

[Gandtee]

My wife was bitten by a Pit Viper. Unfortunately the snake died

[cornishcarlos]

We've had a snake in the garden a couple of times , each time the same kind , not venemous . My wife always swears that every snake she sees is a King

Cobra .

These were not , my wife killed the first one with a long handled trowel . I have always had a fear of snakes , but believe in letting creatures live as

long as they don't bother me . The second snake we manage to put over our garden wall into fields . If I go walking in the country , I wear strong hiking

shoes and my leather riding half chaps and carry a walking stick . Pythons are found in or near swamps and Cobras like bamboo thickets . A friend who lives nearby has 2rai of mown pasture , where lots of snakes come out of neighbouring Casava

I don't think you will have any problems with snakes...

Leather half chaps I'd run pretty fast from you too...

[Gandtee]

One of the first things I did when moving to Thailand was to buy a book on Snakes of Thailand. It changed my fear of snakes to a healthy respect for them. It's nice to know what just bit you We used to have many different types of snake in the garden coming in from surrounding vegetation. Two claims to fame were a King Cobra 3.30 lm. I measured it after the locals sadly dispatched it. There were children around and only a skilled snake handler should tackle one.A snake I mean. And later a Burmese python 4.00 lm. This one I tackled and called in the local "Body snatchers' to remove it to a safe haven. The Pit Vipers and other types such as the Kukri snake in the picture, I deposit them on the adjacent land. Sadly, snakes are becoming less and less numerous because of human encroachment and the rats are glad of it.

[dutchchiangmai]

I've had several snakes (4) in and around my house in the past 4 years. Luckily every time my dogs warn me when one of these buggers enter my garden, and although I'm also a strong believer in live and let live, this only applies outside my garden.

Edited January 27, 2014 by dutchchiangmai

[Sheryl]

Agree that it looks like a kukri snake.

Various vipers (Malayan pit, Russell's, Green pit etc) are common in Thailand though. Unlike cobras and kraits, which have a quick-acting neurotoxin, the vipers have toxins that have hemorraghic effects and while death is possible it takes days (painful days, alas) so there is always time to get medical help. Treatment is anti-venom. Do not waste time going to a private hospital as it may not have the anti-venom; head for the nearest government hospital, preferrably provincial hospital or higher level as district hospitals might also not stock it. Apply ice to the area first as it will slow down spread of the toxin. Bring the snake with you if possible as anti-venoms are snake-specific, identification of the snake is essential.

For cobra or krait bite same as above except that speed is of the essence so if a tertiary government hospital is not nearby go to the nearest hospital first. They may have to refer you onward but can give supportive treatment in transit. With cobras and kraits, death can occur rapidly due to respiratory paralysis. This paralysis is reversible so basic life support in the interim can allow full recovery.

[slipperylobster]

Yes sir, we had snakes galore in our ancient home up in Udon. I cleared two Rai overgrown with brush, dead trees and garbage (from 15 years of neglect). It was Necessary to beat the bushes and clear from one corner to the other. They all eventually moved next door (some poor old ladies home that is overgrown) but a few remained under the house. They could bet into the bedroom to follow mice...so I had to really be careful to leave no food out , and get rid of the rodents. I usually watch my step, but I ran into the bedroom early in the morning to turn off the lights and surprised a fairly large black snake (could have been non poisonous...) it raced between my legs back into a crawl space with an opening. I just cemented up all the possible entries. One sucker attempted to come up the front porch stairs and I threw a dinner plate at it....had to slam my door shut, and it went off the other side of the porch.

My dog is a snake lookout, and has a certain bark when she spots one. Another safeguard is feeding all the birds here. We have a large variety, and if nothing is lurking in the yard, they peck at the ground for insects and sing merrily. I know when a snake has been spotted when they start squawking and chirp out loud warnings.

Keep my grass cut, but have lots of trees and vegetables growing. Birds get there share.

[Mudcrab]

Agree that it looks like a kukri snake.

Various vipers (Malayan pit, Russell's, Green pit etc) are common in Thailand though. Unlike cobras and kraits, which have a quick-acting neurotoxin, the vipers have toxins that have hemorraghic effects and while death is possible it takes days (painful days, alas) so there is always time to get medical help. Treatment is anti-venom. Do not waste time going to a private hospital as it may not have the anti-venom; head for the nearest government hospital, preferrably provincial hospital or higher level as district hospitals might also not stock it. Apply ice to the area first as it will slow down spread of the toxin. Bring the snake with you if possible as anti-venoms are snake-specific, identification of the snake is essential.

For cobra or krait bite same as above except that speed is of the essence so if a tertiary government hospital is not nearby go to the nearest hospital first. They may have to refer you onward but can give supportive treatment in transit. With cobras and kraits, death can occur rapidly due to respiratory paralysis. This paralysis is reversible so basic life support in the interim can allow full recovery.

Hi Sheryl,

is this advice still relevant? My understanding is that there are antivenenes now available across the snake species. I could be wrong and will gracefully accept being told so.My knowledge is based on Australian snakes and their their bite treatment, not he Cobra or the particularly nasty Viper.

Basic life support...you are referring to CPR I guess. Any links to trainers who can educate the posters on here? Any advise for on the spot first aid techniques? Stop the venom spreading, that sort of thing?

[Mudcrab]

Yes sir, we had snakes galore in our ancient home up in Udon. I cleared two Rai overgrown with brush, dead trees and garbage (from 15 years of neglect). It was Necessary to beat the bushes and clear from one corner to the other. They all eventually moved next door (some poor old ladies home that is overgrown) but a few remained under the house. They could bet into the bedroom to follow mice...so I had to really be careful to leave no food out , and get rid of the rodents. I usually watch my step, but I ran into the bedroom early in the morning to turn off the lights and surprised a fairly large black snake (could have been non poisonous...) it raced between my legs back into a crawl space with an opening. I just cemented up all the possible entries. One sucker attempted to come up the front porch stairs and I threw a dinner plate at it....had to slam my door shut, and it went off the other side of the porch.

My dog is a snake lookout, and has a certain bark when she spots one. Another safeguard is feeding all the birds here. We have a large variety, and if nothing is lurking in the yard, they peck at the ground for insects and sing merrily. I know when a snake has been spotted when they start squawking and chirp out loud warnings.

Keep my grass cut, but have lots of trees and vegetables growing. Birds get there share.

Dogs always seem to have a special snake bark in my experience

[lucjoker]

the most dangerous snakes weigh about 50 -55 kg,

Beautiful eyes,dark skin and long black hair..........

If you find them in your bedroom .....dont enter....call me !

[Gandtee]

I am not an expert but what I have read is that you DO NOT apply a tourniquet or cut the bite to suck the venom out. Old cowboy film techniques I think.. Wrap the bite with a tight bandage. Keep the patient calm. Don't give the patient alcohol. Have one yourself maybe and get to the hospital quickly for medical assistance. For the patient,not you

[Sheryl]

Agree that it looks like a kukri snake.

Various vipers (Malayan pit, Russell's, Green pit etc) are common in Thailand though. Unlike cobras and kraits, which have a quick-acting neurotoxin, the vipers have toxins that have hemorraghic effects and while death is possible it takes days (painful days, alas) so there is always time to get medical help. Treatment is anti-venom. Do not waste time going to a private hospital as it may not have the anti-venom; head for the nearest government hospital, preferrably provincial hospital or higher level as district hospitals might also not stock it. Apply ice to the area first as it will slow down spread of the toxin. Bring the snake with you if possible as anti-venoms are snake-specific, identification of the snake is essential.

For cobra or krait bite same as above except that speed is of the essence so if a tertiary government hospital is not nearby go to the nearest hospital first. They may have to refer you onward but can give supportive treatment in transit. With cobras and kraits, death can occur rapidly due to respiratory paralysis. This paralysis is reversible so basic life support in the interim can allow full recovery.

Hi Sheryl,

is this advice still relevant? My understanding is that there are antivenenes now available across the snake species. I could be wrong and will gracefully accept being told so.My knowledge is based on Australian snakes and their their bite treatment, not he Cobra or the particularly nasty Viper.

Basic life support...you are referring to CPR I guess. Any links to trainers who can educate the posters on here? Any advise for on the spot first aid techniques? Stop the venom spreading, that sort of thing?

There are 7 snake-specificantivenoms produced in Thailand. Then there are also 2 combination antivenoms, one for the 3 types of hematotoxic snakes and one for the 4 types of neurotxoic snaked. These contain doses of all of the relevant specific antivenoms i.e. the hematotoxic combo contains a full dose each of the 3 snale specifric antivenoms. Administration of this is highly undesirable as it is a 3 fold risk of serious adverse reaction (4 fold in the case of the neuro toxin combo). Individual antivenoms carry a significvant risk of serious allergic/anaphylactic reaction as it is.

In the absence of an ID of the snake, even for the use of combined antivenoms it is necessary to know which major group (hemato or neuro toxic) it belonged to which in turn would have to be based on clinical signs i.e. treatment might have to be delayed until signs of toxicity are evident. Whereas if the snake can be positively ID'd it can be given at once. I have attended cases of snake bite where we had to wait to see if there were signs of toxicity and if so which type, it is a very scary and dangerous proceeding. The snake should be brought in if at all possible. Usually after biting they do not go too far. Catch the snake

The basic life support I meant would be intubation and ventilation with an ambu bag, done at the first sign of respiratory paralysis and well before carduac arrest. By the time cardiuac arrest sets in the prognosis is very, very poor.

The only on the spot treatment is to keep the affected part of the body as immobile as posisble, apply ice if possible (but do nto delay in order to get it) and get medical help -- preferrably with the snake (dead of course) in a bag to show the doctors .

[Trickcyclist]

To Turner 34.

many thanks for feedback.

Best wishes to you and wife

[ktm jeff]

Sheryl , thanks so much for the info. Do you recommend a book on snake ID and their bite treatment , as many of us come across snakes - not their fault if they bite - so would like to know what ones im dealing with.

[Sheryl]

Excluding sea snakes (often poisonous), there are basically 7 venomous snakes to worry about, best to just download photos of each:

Kong Cobra

Cobra

Banded Krait

Malayan Krait

Malayan Pit Viper

Russell's Viper

Green Pit Viper (this one is pretty easy to ID as it stays up in high places like trees and roof rafters and is very green. Typically people get bitten on the hand from reaching up into a high place).

List does not include the various pythons as these, while certainly dangerous, are not venomous.

Keep in mind the majority of land snakes are non-venomous.

The local hospital will generally know which posionous snakes are most common in a given location, if you are really concerned have a chat with them and then study the relevant pix.