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Is Thai Society Bereft of Social Skills?


ccarbaugh

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Fair enough that Thais expect everyone to take off their shoes when entering their houses. But they should also realise it's Socially unacceptable to lay full length on a Farangs Sofa without asking first.

The same applies to going to his Fridge and helping yourself to bottles of beer. Eat as much as you can and then get up and go without a thank you! This is especially socially unacceptable,when the offenders were brought to your/my house as a complete stranger..

It isn't any more acceptable here than it is in the west.

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I have seen it in Thailand more than once, but never in the west,and frankly I had no wish to embarrass my guests,had it been the west,I would have promptly shown them the door!

Well why don't you throw them out then?

I never said anything about where it happens more frequently, I said that the behaviour you described is just as rude here.

I know that people can only speak from their own experiences but all that says to me is that you consistently allow your good will to be abused by some very rude Thais.

By putting it down to Thai culture you're actually making excuses for those rude people and being unfair to the many other Thais who wouldn't dream of doing that.

It's a big country with a big enough population that you can choose to avoid people like that in your life almost completely if you wish. The choice is and always has been yours.

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What is their excuse for not saying thanks, kop Khun khrap or even a nod of acknowledgement when you hold the door open for them? It just reeks of impolite arrogance. These days if they say nothing I usually say Thank you for them, rather loudly, which generally is followed by a "sorry mister". I've gone so far as to help a lady with a pram take it up stairs and received the same treatment, nothing. Personally I think Thais see kindness as a sign of weakness and will often take advantage of it if given the chance.

Some say thank you in thai or english. some do not. some are frightened to speak. they have a myriad of social rules and may be scared to break one. their system of "image" "face" seems not a bad compromise to cope with the lack of critical thinking, intellectual development and curiosity. the emphasis on politeness and image flies in the face of the massive cheating and corruption in all levels of society

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I wrote about it before but it is worth repeating. An older woman was sitting across from me on a song tau with her granddaughter. She got off the vehicle and went into a convenience store and bought me a tea to drink. She assumed I didn't speak Thai and tried to converse with me a bit in English.

Her granddaughter then asked her in Thai why she bought me a drink and she said because I was a guest in her country and she wanted to make me feel at home.

I know you are trying to be sarcastic and probably labor under the impression Farang is a negative instead of neutral word in Thailand. I doubt if there is hope for you. Seems to me people are treated here they way they treat others. People are nice to me because I'm nice to them so for me Farang is a positive word. I would imagine you treat people less than nicely so for you Farang is a negative word.

This Sunday I'm going to see a Farang monk in a well known Thai temple. He is known as the Farang monk. Everyone wais him and respects him and calls him the Farang monk when they are speaking English.

your missing the point, it is because he is a monk that he gets the respect, not because he is a farang, the fact that henis a farang monk (which is quite rare here) makes him a novelty.

Do you think if he was just a farang in the moo baan everyone would walk around waiing him?

and people are usually nice to people who are nice to them, you are correct, but the post was about the general bad manners displayed by thai's on a regualr basis i.e

line cutting

pushing in

not saying thank you when holding the door open for them

No, you are missing the point. He is respected because he is a monk and identified by the word Farang which is a neutral word. If he was blue he would be called the blue monk. There is a really tall monk in Thailand and he is called the tall monk. I don't live in a tourist area like Bangkok or NYC. People don't cut in or push or not say thank you. That is why I live here.

No your still missing the point, it has nothing to do with him being a farang or not, i used the term farang because you did, but the reason people why him and show him respect is because he is a monk! nothing else..

my point was, if he was just a farang residing in a moo baan (not a monk) people would not walk around waiing him all the time.

You say that where you live nobody cuts the line, or nobody does not say thank you, so if you have not experienced this behavior, why are you posting here?

you obviously have nothing to offer this topic!

I could be wrong, but I am assuming you live in the countryside, where there are less people, less lines to stand in and probably less doors to hold open for people, hence the reason you have not experienced this kind of behavior.

However many people do experience this first hand! and that is what this post is about.

If it something that does not happened to you, thus does not affect you, then why are you posting on a subject that you have no experience to offer! are you bored...

or are you suggesting that because you have not experienced this in your village, then it cant be true?

the other option is everyone can move to where you live, but then there would be long lines that some thai's WILL try and cut, there will be pushing and more doors to hold open for people that wont say thank you.

You are the only one in this topic discussing the word "farang" and if it is a neutral word or not.

nobody else has mentioned it. ไอ้ฝรั่ง is that neutral?

a couple of days ago i was next in queue to get a number to pay my electric bill. no one else was behind me. a motorcycle taxi guy entered and simply stepped in front of me. i asked in thai if he knows there is a queue. he moved and went behind me. i just shook head in never ending amazement.

last week at kfc ques the woman behind me (appeared middle class) was pushing her shopping bags into my back. yes, she got so close to me as to prod her packages into me as if that would make my order go faster and food come quicker. she was an overweight gal in her mid 20's that couldn't wait to stuff kfc into her mouth. as i tried turn with my tray to go to a table i hit her because she was almost on top of me.

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No social skills in comparison to what cultures? Ever been to south-east Chicago? Some of the rudest, non-stop swearing, ghetto trash in the entire world.

I find Thai social skills are closely related to their place in society. The poor, dirty Thais working in a local market (many times from Isaan) have a loud, harsh, angry voice and swear often while the higher class, Mercedes driving people are soft spoken, polite and clean.

Same in many other countries. The wealthy are the clean, well spoken and well mannered set while the poor are the angry, dirty and prone to violence.

So, poor people are dark, dirty and loud, eh? People who live in "ghettos" are "trash"? Lao people (as opposed to Thais) are "loud, harsh and angry?"

The resident Super Racist of TV strikes again. Why don't you just go back to your isolated mountain shack with your sister/wife and shotgun and leave the rest of us to have semi-civilized discussions?

Whereustay, how would you account for the nouveau riche in Thailand? Believe me there are many of them. Imagine a farmer or land owner, the land has been in the familt for generations, it cost a pittance back then. Suddenly a property developer comes along and gives Mr. Ban Nok 100 million baht for his piece of dirt and he becomes a dollar millionaire three times over. Do you think Mr. Ban Nok is going to change over night and enter the higher echelons of Thai Hi-Society? For god sake man, he will stay the same, cussing, swearing, eating from a noodle stand, opening the car door to yack out a greeny. Don't for a moment think that just because they have money, they have class because they don't and class together with polite manners cannot be bought, it's bred into you.

I was implying that with wealth comes education and class. Often, a low class coming into a lot of money will blow it all quick and become bankrupt. Look at all the sports stars and lottery winners who declare bankruptcy. So essentially they will return to their class if they can't improve themselves.

I'm not saying rich guys like politicians and police here don't go around killing others or behaving badly. What I mean is someone brought up by responsible parents who have money for a good education often result in better mannered people with good social skills.

You would be less likely to have someone well off steal your beer and lie down on your couch as they know its wrong.

I'm not saying that with wealth and education come jointly with ethics and morals. They just appear polite on the outside but may very well be thinking very ugly thoughts at the same time.

Edited by Whereustay
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Thai's are bought up to be polite in area's which are deemed important, i.e showing respect based on status etc, taking ones shoes off when entering another persons home.

<snip>

For those who have lived here along time and have a real understanding of how things are here,

will know that almost everything here is SHOW!

It would be accurate to say that generally Thai's are a rude race trying to pretend not to be. Some of them are just better at it than others.

Don't fall off your horse, buddy, it's a long way down...!

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I think you cannot give what you haven't got,..... what I mean is....if you have never been taught how to socialize then it would be natural to have difficulty in this area. My wife says that in the countryside parents are too busy going out early in the mornings to the rice fields and coming home late in the evening, to teach their children about "moriat" socializing.

<snip>

What is "moriat" socializing, and do you do it with your clothes on...?

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Thing is, we choose to move to Thailand instead of staying in our own heavenly countries where all is so perfect, I wonder why that is ?

Maybe all is not so well in farangland.

You can count on some &lt;deleted&gt; coming in with a facile comment such as yours. The original post merely points out glaring differences in the social culture which are common all over this country..

Based on my experience you are the &lt;deleted&gt;. Everybody talks to me. Everybody knows who I am. It even freaks out my Thai wife that she has to tell taxi drivers to go to the Farang's house instead of them remembering her.

Everybody asks me how long I've been here and how did I get such a good looking dog and what am I going to eat for lunch. I used to live in NYC and no one knew my name or cared anything about what I ate for lunch.

Same here.The missus and a Thai friend have gone off some 20-30 klms away to get a job done and get Thai price the easy way.They asked,"Where is your husband".I haved been nowhere near these business's.This has happened twice recently.Everybody in the big village knows my name and some even say good morning,in English,never mind it may be 4pm,at least they greeted me.I started this off years ago and now they reciprocate.

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I can only recount my personal experiences. I have always found the Thais that I know to be the most perfect company and perfect hosts. I and the wife were at a party a while back, the only farangs there. We were told to park in an area where we were then met and shown across the busy road by a junior member of the family. At the end of the evening, where we had been listening to music and singing karaoke etc, and having great discussions on all manner of topics, we were shown down from the house and across the busy road again personally by the host. I can't imagine that ever happening in the UK, unless we were royalty, which we ain't!

what your describing is service and showmanship, the host of the party was a good host...

what you are describing is not much different than checking into a good hotel and the porter or bell boy bringing your luggage up to the room and back down again when you check out.

the op is about everyday behavior/manners... big difference

No, the difference is that many of us find that the locals' everyday behaviour and manners are overwhelmingly good.

You don't.

Your problem.

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No your still missing the point, it has nothing to do with him being a farang or not, i used the term farang because you did, but the reason people why him and show him respect is because he is a monk! nothing else..

my point was, if he was just a farang residing in a moo baan (not a monk) people would not walk around waiing him all the time.

You say that where you live nobody cuts the line, or nobody does not say thank you, so if you have not experienced this behavior, why are you posting here?

you obviously have nothing to offer this topic!

I could be wrong, but I am assuming you live in the countryside, where there are less people, less lines to stand in and probably less doors to hold open for people, hence the reason you have not experienced this kind of behavior.

However many people do experience this first hand! and that is what this post is about.

If it something that does not happened to you, thus does not affect you, then why are you posting on a subject that you have no experience to offer! are you bored...

or are you suggesting that because you have not experienced this in your village, then it cant be true?

the other option is everyone can move to where you live, but then there would be long lines that some thai's WILL try and cut, there will be pushing and more doors to hold open for people that wont say thank you.

You are the only one in this topic discussing the word "farang" and if it is a neutral word or not.

nobody else has mentioned it. ไอ้ฝรั่ง is that neutral?

You wrote, "You say that where you live nobody cuts the line, or nobody does not say thank you, so if you have not experienced this behavior, why are you posting here? you obviously have nothing to offer this topic!"

That's a good point. 7 of the 20 threads visible on my first page are Thai negative in nature and asking others for supporting negative information or just help with feeling bad in general.

I'm a happy guy in Thailand. I have a happy wife and a happy dog. My stuff works. It gets delivered on time and people say thank you. I would have died here in Thailand if Thai people had not helped me.

Thai society bereft of social skills

Central ruined my day.

Retail store horror stories.

Racist Thai teacher.

Why would I post? Because. You are all sorry whinging complainers that need a bit of sunshine in your lives.

Nice one. You cheered me up no end. Good advice which Monty Python put over very well. Thanks for that.

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Thing is, we choose to move to Thailand instead of staying in our own heavenly countries where all is so perfect, I wonder why that is ?

Maybe all is not so well in farangland.

You can count on some &lt;deleted&gt; coming in with a facile comment such as yours. The original post merely points out glaring differences in the social culture which are common all over this country..

We are all different, take me for instance, I wouldn't call someone a &lt;deleted&gt; on an anonymous forum, simply because, I don't know that person and I may one day meet him and realise I was wrong, you on the other hand find it acceptable to abuse people who's opinion is different to yours, good luck with that.

If you never realised there are glaring differences in other cultures before you came to Thailand, you must have a very limited experience of travel.

I can walk into a Thai bar and nod and smile at a Thai stranger who invariably will smile back, try that in some pubs in the UK.

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No social skills in comparison to what cultures? Ever been to south-east Chicago? Some of the rudest, non-stop swearing, ghetto trash in the entire world.

I find Thai social skills are closely related to their place in society. The poor, dirty Thais working in a local market (many times from Isaan) have a loud, harsh, angry voice and swear often while the higher class, Mercedes driving people are soft spoken, polite and clean.

Same in many other countries. The wealthy are the clean, well spoken and well mannered set while the poor are the angry, dirty and prone to violence.

So, poor people are dark, dirty and loud, eh? People who live in "ghettos" are "trash"? Lao people (as opposed to Thais) are "loud, harsh and angry?"

The resident Super Racist of TV strikes again. Why don't you just go back to your isolated mountain shack with your sister/wife and shotgun and leave the rest of us to have semi-civilized discussions?

Whereustay, how would you account for the nouveau riche in Thailand? Believe me there are many of them. Imagine a farmer or land owner, the land has been in the familt for generations, it cost a pittance back then. Suddenly a property developer comes along and gives Mr. Ban Nok 100 million baht for his piece of dirt and he becomes a dollar millionaire three times over. Do you think Mr. Ban Nok is going to change over night and enter the higher echelons of Thai Hi-Society? For god sake man, he will stay the same, cussing, swearing, eating from a noodle stand, opening the car door to yack out a greeny. Don't for a moment think that just because they have money, they have class because they don't and class together with polite manners cannot be bought, it's bred into you.

And that's just a discription of some of the farange behavior.

"For god sake man, he will stay the same, cussing, swearing, eating from a noodle stand, opening the car door to yack out a greeny"

Apart from replacing eating noodles with drinking archer. cheesy.gifcoffee1.gif

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No your still missing the point, it has nothing to do with him being a farang or not, i used the term farang because you did, but the reason people why him and show him respect is because he is a monk! nothing else..

<snip>

nobody else has mentioned it. ไอ้ฝรั่ง is that neutral?

You wrote, "You say that where you live nobody cuts the line, or nobody does not say thank you, so if you have not experienced this behavior, why are you posting here? you obviously have nothing to offer this topic!"

That's a good point. 7 of the 20 threads visible on my first page are Thai negative in nature and asking others for supporting negative information or just help with feeling bad in general.

I'm a happy guy in Thailand. I have a happy wife and a happy dog. My stuff works. It gets delivered on time and people say thank you. I would have died here in Thailand if Thai people had not helped me.

Thai society bereft of social skills

Central ruined my day.

Retail store horror stories.

Racist Thai teacher.

Why would I post? Because. You are all sorry whinging complainers that need a bit of sunshine in your lives.

Yep, I live in that Thailand, too.

Many in here live in a different Thailand.

I'm not sure where it is, but I certainly wouldn't want to go and live there. Horrible place!

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Thing is, we choose to move to Thailand instead of staying in our own heavenly countries where all is so perfect, I wonder why that is ?

Maybe all is not so well in farangland.

in other words...if you dont like it go home....easy again....but a predictable post.

Yeah, I agree, another deadbeat, predictable, non informative, waste of time comment. Why can't these fools either not post or add any intelligent comments.

Edited by Rorri
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The Op is spot on.

Unfortunately, they do not care.

Their way, the Thai way is the only way they know and they don't care to improve.

They do things the way they have always done them aand will continue in the same fashion.

The one that bothers me most is never being introduced to anyone.

Usually, after waiting an hour or so, I will ask my wife, or who ever else who has neglected an introduction, who the person sitting/ standing with me is.

"Oh that's my cousin, or uncle,or aunt.". or whoever it is"

Why didn't you introduce me to them?

"Thai people do not do that."

But aren't they part of my family too now?

&lt;deleted&gt;?

Edited by willyumiii
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You wai and respect your elders. Simple really.

There r social rules on who has to wai who and who wais who first, and some wais dont have to be reciprocated.

Unless it is from 3 three year old or someone at the lower rungs of the service industry (where I give a shallow bow of acknowledgement and reciprocate the greeting), then I generally return the wai.

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I find Thais are only really comfortable in their peer group. Same social class being most important then perhaps age and gender and then regional origin. They just feel awkward like a fish out of water outside of their peer group. Good example is any Thai gone to a foreign country, apart from any foreign spouse, all their friends are Thai and the only place many will work is a Thai restaurant. Their culture only allows them to feel truly comfortable with other Thais. Another example, stick a northerner in a shop with a load of Isaan workers, odds are northerner if alone will not like it and seek to leave. Put a working class Thai in a situation with middle class Thais. Middle class Thais will condescend, the working class Thai will seek an exit pronto. Many examples like this. The divisions in Thai society are quite wide and difficult for Thais to overcome on a personal level.

Well said. This sums it up perfectly.

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'The cutting in line on the BTS'?

I find Thai's rather polite when entering/exiting the BTS. 2 orderly queues formed either side of the doors allowing people to exit first.

Try getting on the MTR in HK.

It's every man for himself!

Most Thais love modern bright shiny new things like the BTS so follow the instructions that come with it written on the platform. And I suspect that when it first opened there were many BTS uniformed staff teaching passengers how to follow these queuing instructions on the platform and enforcing them.

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Some of the issues are generational rather than specific to Thailand. The whole mobile " thing" , needing to stop everything, anywhere in order to check messages, chat, play games, look "kool" etc, seems to be equally prevalent in other countries. It could be more obvious here and certainly there appears to be little backlash against it , in contrast to some other countries.

But isn't this more to do with Gen X worldwide? An absolute lack of awareness of how their mobile obsession impacts on others. I am hopeful that Darwin will kick in and a sufficiently high number of them will fall down stairs, step into the path of buses, walk off cliffs, etc , etc to limit their breeding and any capacity to pass on this behaviour to offspring

first time ive agreed with you sir,and you are right on the money...mobiles are breeding pure ignorance of their surroundings,i doubt their doing an on-line course on there phone..would love to be wrong........but i doubt it..wai2.gif

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Yeah I think thais lack social skill.

They don't lack politeness or humbleness.

But social skill they do lack. Many like to say that the Thais are shy, that is mostly because they are so excrutiatingly concerned with appearances aka. face, so they try to avoid situations in which they don't know the exact outcome - at least outside their close friends.

This makes most Thais very dull people and a bit like automatrons. Do you ever really get to know them if you didn't grow up with them?

Thank god for loud chattering people like the americans. They used to annoy me, but after Thailand I appreciate their inane banter.

For some inexplicable reason, the vast majority of the natives tend to banter only in their native tongue.

Edited by Trembly
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Or as a woman once said on a BBC documentary about her "British" accent

Pleeese!! Call it a Cockney accent, but please do not call it a British accent. I speak with a British accent, as does HM Queen Elizabeth,as did Lord Mountbatten... That is a British accent - everything else is a regional English (and often unintelligable) accent smile.png

Simon

Every accent within Britain is British? Any regional accent within the UK and Northern Ireland; English, Scottish, Welsh or otherwise is just as British as that spoken by yourself and all the other penguins with your snotty nasal beaks up each other's a***holes......Sorry 'Backsides'smile.png

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You wai and respect your elders. Simple really.

There r social rules on who has to wai who and who wais who first, and some wais dont have to be reciprocated.

Unless it is from 3 three year old or someone at the lower rungs of the service industry (where I give a shallow bow of acknowledgement and reciprocate the greeting), then I generally return the wai.

Why do u exclude the lower rungs of the service industry? I know Thais do, but maybe we can set an example by showing equal respect to all. I will wai anyone who takes the trouble to wai me.

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You wai and respect your elders. Simple really.

There r social rules on who has to wai who and who wais who first, and some wais dont have to be reciprocated.

Unless it is from 3 three year old or someone at the lower rungs of the service industry (where I give a shallow bow of acknowledgement and reciprocate the greeting), then I generally return the wai.

Why do u exclude the lower rungs of the service industry? I know Thais do, but maybe we can set an example by showing equal respect to all. I will wai anyone who takes the trouble to wai me.

It isn't about disrespect. As said, you ackowledge them (politely I might add), but to wai everything that moves especially when you are walking into a restuarant who's job is to Wai you then makes you look like a dick. Plenty of tourists wai anything that moves, and you watch them and they just look like tools. You don't shake the hand of every waiter you meet do you?

If that same person wai'ed me in a personal circumstance of course I'd wai them, precisely cause they are wanting to Wai me, not cause they are being told to. I Wai some of the market ladies on the way to work, especially if I haven't seen them for a few days. I get my daughter to wai the guards at school in the morning when we walk through the front gate. I

I should add there are nuances to everything. If an older person at the front of the restuarant greeted me, I'd wai them back, cause they are older. For me, that is appropriate. It is all about judging what is the correct response in the right circumstance.

Confusing? Sure it is. So grass hopper, wipe on, wipe off. You'll get it in about 20 years.

Edited by samran
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i get the feeling thai's often dont think or care about others; thai or farang

i was getting some photocopying done this afternoon. the road outside was jammed with traffic but there was plenty of room for motorcycles to pass by the cars. however the motorcyclists were riding up and down the pavement which was also being used by children going home from the nearby school as well as other pedestrians.

when i'm on the bus i can guarantee that i am the first, and often only, person to give up their seat to an elderly or pregnant passenger. i have often seen both having to stand on buses. i've even seen parents carrying babies having to stand.

get doors slammed in my face all the time

people step out of doorways and side street right in front of me; am i invisible?

people, strangely often female late teen/20's, walk straight into me in the street - i make the 50% evasive move they do nothing. crash

dont know whether many thais are deliberately rude, don't know any better, are simply incapable of thinking of/caring about others or lack the confidence/personality to take proactive action.

They are attracted to your hansumness

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