Rice-pledging scheme: Thai farmers driven to despair

[Skywalker69]

"Another farmer put his tractor up for sale yesterday....."

Okay, it's farm machinery, but you'd have thought he'd at least give it a bit of a clean if he was serious.....

Without wanting to belittle the farmers' plight, this is just staged sensational jounalism me thinks.

Would you say the same if you haden't been paid since October?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[wealth]

this scheme/scam was setup to grab land from farmers from the very beginning.

Payment was due in October, long before the mob came into action, and nothing was done about it - ON PURPOSE

Their hero came/comes to take it all...

[Scamper]

It is very sad to see this impact on the rice farmers. And yet, how did this begin ? It began with a political party that could only see the election in front of them, and not after that, and made extravagant promises that no government could ever fiscally sustain. Pheu Thai also told them that the programme would be an enormous success, that the rice wouldn't be able to be sold fast enough, such would be the demand both domestically and internationally. What Pheu Thai didn't tell them is that they could never sustain such a programme. What Pheu Thai didn't tell them is that wrapped up in every massive payment were massive practices of graft which did not serve - nor were intended to serve - the rice farmers at all. Pheu Thai has found out what all political parties find out sooner or later. You can promise the moon in the first election, but be wary of a public that sees that the moon is no where closer in sight before the second. The irony is that if Pheu Thai had not made such unrealistic promises, these farmers would have still likely voted for them. But they won't now. The rice scheme has ruined their livelihoods. And they know where to place the blame.

[weka]

Good explanation here:

http://world.time.com/2013/07/12/how-thailands-botched-rice-scheme-blew-a-big-hole-in-its-economy/

[MaxLee]

Unfortunately, the Thaksin party will win elections and it can continue its rice pledging scheme and other SCAMS with business as usual... WITH OR WITHOUT the taxpayers' consent...

[kikoman]

Thailand's ability to feed itself in the future is uncertain, as it was before the present controversy, with the rice farmers aging and retiring and their children turning their backs on the family farm due to the hard work and low profit, are going into other career fields.

The PTP must take responsibilities for their mistakes up to the point (2) months ago ehen they became a caretaker government and were no longer allowed to borrow money to pay the nations farmers.

The EC must approve any request for a loan to the government and for the last two months have rejected all the PTP loan request to pay the farmers, as the EC has actively championed the protest request to cancel the election. As voiced on this forum the opposition to the government, are actively backing the EC refusal to pay the farmers, that are being held as political hostages, in the hopes they will vote against the current government. The EC must bear the responsibilities for denying payment to a million and a half Thai farmers (only for political gain)!

Many of the nation farmers will leave the rice fields and look to more profitable crops or into other occupations to support themselves and their families!

Thailand will end up the loser in the long run with a vastly decreased national rice production, by the EC failure to approve the loan to pay the farmers!

Cheers

And that my friend is called supply and demand and progress.

They will turn to other profitable crops which they will be able to sustain them and their family. With the extra money they may be able to afford more nutritional foods such as meats, fruits, and vegetables which has actually been happening now with a declining trend in per capita rice consumption.

Demonizing the WORLD BANK

I remember on the 9th of October (5 days after rice farmers were not paid) last year the world bank said the scheme was incurring heavy losses and the Deputy PM defended Thailand and criticized the world bank saying the two-year pledging scheme for farmers cost the state only Bt200 billion. Mr Niwatthamrong ruled out a report that PT would have only Bt230 billion for rice purchases in the 2013/2014 crop, stating the Cabinet approved Bt270 billion for the scheme up until the end of February, 2014. That was a lie. But if it was not a lie then they had budgeted enough money and all would be good now? The rice farmers started waiting for payments from the 4th of January and even on that day the PTP were saying everything was OK. Doesn't sound like the EC's fault? If the PTP had taken the advice of the World Bank they would not be in this position today.

Demonizing IMF

I remember on the 12th of November (1 month and 8 days since rice farmers were not paid) last year IMF urged Thailand to drop its multibillion-dollar rice subsidy program. The the Finance Ministry said it hadn't seen the IMF report and wasn't worried about the subsidy program. The Commerce Minister Niwatthamrong Boonsongpaisal however did say something and that was surprise surprise refuting the claim, telling reporters last week that losses from the program “should be not over 100 billion baht a year.” That was a lie. If it wasn't a lie the rice farmers would be paid and all would be good now. 1 month and 8 days after rice farmers stopped getting paid the PTP said everything was still OK. Doesn't sound like the EC's fault. Had the PTP listened to the IMF they would not be in this position today.

Now we fast forward to today and even though the world bank had warned them. IMF had warned them. Even though the Deputy PM said they had budgeted for the 13/14 crop season. Even though the finance minster said "nothing to worry about". Even though the Commerce minister said he refuted the claim and demonized the IMF..drum roll...It is now the EC's fault that the rice farmers haven't been paid. PTP logic.

Unaccountability is the PTP's favorite dish. Followed for desert by blame. Washed down with a swig of propaganda so it can all be digested.

I do love your blind faith in this party though. It is admirable and worthy of a mention at the yearly PTP ministry of propaganda awards night.

I live in a rice growing village for almost a decade my view of rural Thailand is better than most, T.V.posters can see from their bar stool or out of the window of their local go go bar. Many of these clueless posters in their daily yellow tinted lies, states that PTP is at fault for Thailand no longer being the worlds top rice exporting country. I posted to the facts as I witness them here in the village,

In our family all our current crop of university students , 7 as we speak all will not be following their parents in to the family farm, that is a trend all over the country,due to the hard work, low pay that has kept Thailand as the top rice producing and rice exporting country in the world for 31 years off of the backs of the farmers.

Pray tell me with facts, how my propaganda (your word, not mine) is not more creditable than the excrement the Suthep sympathizer spread every day.on this forum, Your post kind of indicates you fancy yourself knowledgeable and clearly understand much about international Organization and procedures, if you are so "worldly" why do you not understand about international Democracies, constitutional rights, the rule of law and definition of terrorist activities are in the world and specific to Democracies, many on this forum believe that the Thai people do not deserve the rights they enjoyed in their home countries,and I simply believe that they do.

Do not quit your day job, as you could be an award winner on the American TV show "are you smarter than a fifth grader"

Common sense is not a gift, it is a punishment, when you have it you still have to deal with all those that don't.

Cheers

[Bigfarang1948]

"Another farmer put his tractor up for sale yesterday....."

Okay, it's farm machinery, but you'd have thought he'd at least give it a bit of a clean if he was serious.....

Without wanting to belittle the farmers' plight, this is just staged sensational jounalism me thinks.

What a moron.......staged journalism.......have you ever been hard up through no fault of your own and having worked very hard in very demanding conditions....yours is one of the worst posts I have ever seen on TV and that is really saying something! Shame on you!

Howe utterly heartless your comments are, I wish you had to wade knee deep in the paddy muck, stooped over for 10 hours a day to plant then harvest a rice crop, only to see if flooded and dead or dead from no rain, then see the anguish on my wife's face when 100% of the crop is lost.

We grow just enough to feed an extended famiky of 10 adults for a year and when you get zero yield, I cannot help but cry with the family YOu realy are a heartless worm but I bet your mouth is full of food three times a day

Edited January 29, 2014 by Bigfarang1948

[BestBitterPhuket]

Malaysia, under then prime minister Dr Mahatir, tried a similar stunt, but not with rice. The chosen commodity was tin. The Malaysian government was buying huge contracts, future and spot, of tin, with the plan being to drive the price up, in which they succeeded for a while, but when the money to prop up the market ran out, it all collapsed, and Malaysia lost billions of dollars.

Manipulating the market may work on small stocks or rare metals, but the bigger it is the harder it gets.

[rubl]

Have to disagree. Part of the plan was to withhold this rice from the market, drive up global rice prices, and make a profit by selling into a higher market price. That was one of the selling points they touted.

Only, someone forgot that people can grow rice elsewhere and India and Vietnam stepped up production and kept global rice prices in check by providing a steady supply.

Yes, subsidies exist and had they set forth with a traditional subsidy program and managed it as a subsidy, they wouldn't be in the place they're in. The problem is that the entire program was poorly thought out and poorly executed.

Anybody who took Econ 101 could have seen this coming a mile away. And many economists around the world did see this coming and have been franticly warning Thailand to abandon the rice scheme.

I mean, this isn't rocket science.

It's not a matter of

"someone forgot that people can grow rice elsewhere and India and Vietnam stepped up production and kept global rice prices in check by providing a steady supply."

India had banned the export of non basmati rice since 1998 and was not a player in the market at all. Then they had a bumper crop, too much was held in storage over and above local consumption so huge amounts of cheap rice undercutting the market price suddenly became available on the World Market. The government tried to ride this out reasoning that eventually India would reduce exports. Due to flooding and a bad crop last year exports from India are due to be cut to fill the domestic demand.

From The Nation July 2011

India's buffer stocks exceed 60 million tonnes because of its export ban, against the normal stockpile of 20 million tonnes. India has set a minimum export price for parboiled rice at only $400 a tonne, while the Thai equivalent is currently quoted at $535-$545. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2011/07/28/business/Pledging-scheme-could-cut-rice-exports-in-half-30161319.html

And how does all this related to the 500 billion Baht non-revolving funds at BAAC, the extra billions the government already borrowed and the 130 billion they want to borrow now?

BTW is it really good government to make expensive decisions on what you assume other government might do, or might continue to do?

We've now at 2014-01-29 poor farmers are still poor. Farmers who lease land are afraid to complain for fear of no longer being able to lease land from rich, fat landowners. Farmers with a bit of private land don't get paid.

Where are our hundreds of billions Baht tax money?

[rogerdee123]

Thailand's ability to feed itself in the future is uncertain, as it was before the present controversy, with the rice farmers aging and retiring and their children turning their backs on the family farm due to the hard work and low profit, are going into other career fields.

The PTP must take responsibilities for their mistakes up to the point (2) months ago ehen they became a caretaker government and were no longer allowed to borrow money to pay the nations farmers.

The EC must approve any request for a loan to the government and for the last two months have rejected all the PTP loan request to pay the farmers, as the EC has actively championed the protest request to cancel the election. As voiced on this forum the opposition to the government, are actively backing the EC refusal to pay the farmers, that are being held as political hostages, in the hopes they will vote against the current government. The EC must bear the responsibilities for denying payment to a million and a half Thai farmers (only for political gain)!

Many of the nation farmers will leave the rice fields and look to more profitable crops or into other occupations to support themselves and their families!

Thailand will end up the loser in the long run with a vastly decreased national rice production, by the EC failure to approve the loan to pay the farmers!

Cheers

And that my friend is called supply and demand and progress.

They will turn to other profitable crops which they will be able to sustain them and their family. With the extra money they may be able to afford more nutritional foods such as meats, fruits, and vegetables which has actually been happening now with a declining trend in per capita rice consumption.

Demonizing the WORLD BANK

I remember on the 9th of October (5 days after rice farmers were not paid) last year the world bank said the scheme was incurring heavy losses and the Deputy PM defended Thailand and criticized the world bank saying the two-year pledging scheme for farmers cost the state only Bt200 billion. Mr Niwatthamrong ruled out a report that PT would have only Bt230 billion for rice purchases in the 2013/2014 crop, stating the Cabinet approved Bt270 billion for the scheme up until the end of February, 2014. That was a lie. But if it was not a lie then they had budgeted enough money and all would be good now? The rice farmers started waiting for payments from the 4th of January and even on that day the PTP were saying everything was OK. Doesn't sound like the EC's fault? If the PTP had taken the advice of the World Bank they would not be in this position today.

Demonizing IMF

I remember on the 12th of November (1 month and 8 days since rice farmers were not paid) last year IMF urged Thailand to drop its multibillion-dollar rice subsidy program. The the Finance Ministry said it hadn't seen the IMF report and wasn't worried about the subsidy program. The Commerce Minister Niwatthamrong Boonsongpaisal however did say something and that was surprise surprise refuting the claim, telling reporters last week that losses from the program “should be not over 100 billion baht a year.” That was a lie. If it wasn't a lie the rice farmers would be paid and all would be good now. 1 month and 8 days after rice farmers stopped getting paid the PTP said everything was still OK. Doesn't sound like the EC's fault. Had the PTP listened to the IMF they would not be in this position today.

Now we fast forward to today and even though the world bank had warned them. IMF had warned them. Even though the Deputy PM said they had budgeted for the 13/14 crop season. Even though the finance minster said "nothing to worry about". Even though the Commerce minister said he refuted the claim and demonized the IMF..drum roll...It is now the EC's fault that the rice farmers haven't been paid. PTP logic.

Unaccountability is the PTP's favorite dish. Followed for desert by blame. Washed down with a swig of propaganda so it can all be digested.

I do love your blind faith in this party though. It is admirable and worthy of a mention at the yearly PTP ministry of propaganda awards night.

I live in a rice growing village for almost a decade my view of rural Thailand is better than most, T.V.posters can see from their bar stool or out of the window of their local go go bar. Many of these clueless posters in their daily yellow tinted lies, states that PTP is at fault for Thailand no longer being the worlds top rice exporting country. I posted to the facts as I witness them here in the village,

In our family all our current crop of university students , 7 as we speak all will not be following their parents in to the family farm, that is a trend all over the country,due to the hard work, low pay that has kept Thailand as the top rice producing and rice exporting country in the world for 31 years off of the backs of the farmers.

Pray tell me with facts, how my propaganda (your word, not mine) is not more creditable than the excrement the Suthep sympathizer spread every day.on this forum, Your post kind of indicates you fancy yourself knowledgeable and clearly understand much about international Organization and procedures, if you are so "worldly" why do you not understand about international Democracies, constitutional rights, the rule of law and definition of terrorist activities are in the world and specific to Democracies, many on this forum believe that the Thai people do not deserve the rights they enjoyed in their home countries,and I simply believe that they do.

Do not quit your day job, as you could be an award winner on the American TV show "are you smarter than a fifth grader"

Common sense is not a gift, it is a punishment, when you have it you still have to deal with all those that don't.

Cheers

I have all the sympathy in the world for the rice farmers and other marginalized people trying to scratch out a living.

However if rice farming is so time consuming and provides so little returns for their hard work and investment, then why are they not transitioning to another more profitable crop ..... or why isn't the Govt encouraging and investing in that transition?

The kids are smart. Why should they get into the cycle of rice-farmer poverty.

What's so great about being the major rice producer if it's this bad .. and I believe you and know it's bad for the farmers.

Let the <deleted> Viewtnamese or Indians be the biggest rice producers ... lets train Thai farmers to produce more profitable crops.

Saying "we're the biggest rice producer" is the same as saying ... we have the most ditch diggers. It's nothing to go around beating our chests and being proud of.

This Govt and the next Govt should do something to help the rice farmers ... not keep them plunged in their poverty ... which is exactly what this rice pledging scheme is doing. But worse. Wait and see in the coming couple of years had bad the effects of this rice scheme are affecting farmers.

[Frotting]

"Another farmer put his tractor up for sale yesterday....."

Okay, it's farm machinery, but you'd have thought he'd at least give it a bit of a clean if he was serious.....

Without wanting to belittle the farmers' plight, this is just staged sensational jounalism me thinks.

No. It's actually true if you bothered to get out of your armchair and have a look around. This was a stupid idea aimed at getting votes; which it did, and now (as a previous poster noted) the people who voted for this incompetent and corrupt regime are paying the price.

[HerbalEd]

This rice-pledging fiasco is a prime opportunity for the anti-goverment movement ... if they could only see it. It has turned many formerly-pro-Taksin farmers against Yinluck and thus they are perhaps ready to "vote" her and her cronies out of office. The Democrats should negotiate for elections to be postponed for a couple of months and then put on a full-press campaign to win over the disillusioned rice farmers. That would be true democracy.

[stoffel45]

Pheu Thai....the Government of the People.

Pheu Thai.... Defenders of the Poor.

Thaksin Shinawatra - Defender of the Downtrodden.

Pheu Thai - Rice Profiteer. Thieves and rogues.

Thaksin - Profiting from Misery.

Nothing changes.

[phantomfiddler]

Beware of false prophets. You cannot at the flick of a switch turn the poor into wealthy citizens. There is a very true saying "If s**t becomes valuable the poor will be born without a*s*o**s". Just a shame that they are so easily hoodwinked, but they have only themselves to blame. Personally, when I heard the first big clincher "Vote for me and I will give every village in Thailand 1 million baht", I knew that disaster was on the horizon

Edited January 29, 2014 by phantomfiddler

[rogerdee123]

Beware of false prophets. You cannot at the flick of a switch turn the poor into wealthy citizens. There is a very true saying "If s**t becomes valuable the poor will be born without a*s*o**s". Just a shame that they are so easily hoodwinked, but they have only themselves to blame. Personally, when I heard the first big clincher "Vote for me and I will give every village in Thailand 1 million baht", I knew that disaster was on the horizon

yes you're right ....... give one million and take 10 million while they wai in gratitude

[benny1616]

Trying to feel sorry for these farmers who voted for Thaksin and his clone, but am having a hard time doing

so. They voted for a liar who told them they would become rich, and now they are paying the price.....

if you talk about clone than you should talk about this terrorist suthep and his anti democratic gang of super rich and corrupt gangsters. the reds a really not perfect but 1000 times better for the ordinary thai.

[hawker9000]

Trying to feel sorry for these farmers who voted for Thaksin and his clone, but am having a hard time doing

so. They voted for a liar who told them they would become rich, and now they are paying the price.....

On the surface of it you have a case. But looking at the entire situation you are not even close.

They are paying the price for all the previous administrations lack of providing education. Even today in 2014 we have some schools with dirt floors and no electricity. Given the same back ground you would probably vote for Thaksin or any Shinawatra.

Mightn't, say, Abraham Lincoln have been educated in such a school with dirt floors & no electricity? Just wondering...

Thais who voted for PTP with the expectation that Thaksin would be ruling by proxy (and I don't see how it could be otherwise, actually), were clearly voting populist-fueled mercenary self-interest rather than national interest. So this rice-pledging scheme went up in smoke, as its better informed, more objective, critics predicted, and now it's time to pay the piper. At this juncture, Thaksin sympathizers can either continue their folly, or start digging out of it by NOT continuing down the same path, and instead abandoning their cult worship of this egotistical creep hiding out overseas. Amazing, truly amazing, how many want to simple-mindedly (and self-servingly) just keep digging... Not so amazing, and in fact not surprising at all, that so many are so determined not to allow even a majority, even it is indeed still that, to carry on with such a program so obviously not in, and actually destructive to, the national interest.

[gchurch259]

I am a guess in this Country, but I am not numb or dumb. The "Great Rice Scheme" was a way of getting votes,they learned from the USA. Unfortunately th "Rice Jar" dried up and I only pray the "USA Cookie/Welfare Jar" dries up soon !!

Jerry

[ubonjoe]

A off topic post has been removed.

[techboy]

Trying to feel sorry for these farmers who voted for Thaksin and his clone, but am having a hard time doing

so. They voted for a liar who told them they would become rich, and now they are paying the price.....

Man, you reek. The farmers were not voting out of avarice- Only for a more secure life. If they were hustled by a politician then they are amongst practically every adult human being on earth. From the tone of your post I think that you like this sort of news- Nothing gives some folks more pleasure than to kick 'em when they're down, eh?

[kimamey]

On BBC just now.

"I don't think I'll vote for them again, as I haven;t been paid (for my rice)."

.

So they can vote for the Democrats instead and see off the Shinawatra party. Oh no, hang on a second, the Democrats have given two fingers to democracy so the farmers don't have an alternative to vote for. Looks like its going to be the Shins again, thanks to the Democrats dereliction of duty.

I think you're wrong. The Dems not contesting the election may be to their advantage.

Firstly the Democrats haven't given two fingers to democracy. They've just decided not to stand as they are perfectly entitled to and is separate from the protests and all the violence.

.

.

The Democrats are within their rights not to contest the election but any party that doesn't stand, or voter that doesn't vote, thereby loses any and all rights to complain about how the winning party then runs the country.

"The Dems not contesting the election may be to their advantage". That's just weird. Reminds me of another poster who said "Democracy has nothing to do with elections!"

'Politicians not contesting election may be to their advantage'. How about 'farmer not planting seed may be to his advantage', 'fisherman not going fishing may be to his advantage'. Weird thinking. I mean, if politicians don't contest elections, <deleted> are they for?

Before I reply I should say that in my haste I wrote something that didn't come out as I'd planned.

I expect, rightly or wrongly that they would be worse.

Should read.

I expect, rightly or wrongly that they think the Dems in power would be worse.

I never said anyone shouldn't vote as I believe that's illegal in Thailand. What I said was cast a no vote if that's possible. If someone wants to vote for the Dems but they aren't there what should they do? A no vote is not the same as not voting. It says you aren't happy with any of the candidates on offer.

When I said the Dems not contesting may be to their advantage I meant the farmers and any others who aren't happy with the performance of the last government. Sorry I realise that may not have been clear. Any one who voted for the government last time who isn't happy and I think many farmers would be the main ones, can now cast a no vote so the PTP understands how unhappy they are without the normal risk of the Dems getting in. If they understand this then we could get a better idea of how the government is perceived amongst it's core supporters.

How this will eventually play out for the Dems is anyone's guess.

[Old Man River]

Trying to feel sorry for these farmers who voted for Thaksin and his clone, but am having a hard time doing

so. They voted for a liar who told them they would become rich, and now they are paying the price.....

Man, you reek. The farmers were not voting out of avarice- Only for a more secure life. If they were hustled by a politician then they are amongst practically every adult human being on earth. From the tone of your post I think that you like this sort of news- Nothing gives some folks more pleasure than to kick 'em when they're down, eh?

I am with with you. People, who don't have a lot, will always (100%) vote for the group who promises them help. These are poor people and we shouldn't expect them to think any longer term than it impacts them. We wouldn't. There was no promises of them becoming rich. I have never heard this, and I have been here a long time. My friends are protestors. Let's be real.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[kikoman]

Trying to feel sorry for these farmers who voted for Thaksin and his clone, but am having a hard time doing

so. They voted for a liar who told them they would become rich, and now they are paying the price.....

On the surface of it you have a case. But looking at the entire situation you are not even close.

They are paying the price for all the previous administrations lack of providing education. Even today in 2014 we have some schools with dirt floors and no electricity. Given the same back ground you would probably vote for Thaksin or any Shinawatra.

Mightn't, say, Abraham Lincoln have been educated in such a school with dirt floors & no electricity? Just wondering...

Thais who voted for PTP with the expectation that Thaksin would be ruling by proxy (and I don't see how it could be otherwise, actually), were clearly voting populist-fueled mercenary self-interest rather than national interest. So this rice-pledging scheme went up in smoke, as its better informed, more objective, critics predicted, and now it's time to pay the piper. At this juncture, Thaksin sympathizers can either continue their folly, or start digging out of it by NOT continuing down the same path, and instead abandoning their cult worship of this egotistical creep hiding out overseas. Amazing, truly amazing, how many want to simple-mindedly (and self-servingly) just keep digging... Not so amazing, and in fact not surprising at all, that so many are so determined not to allow even a majority, even it is indeed still that, to carry on with such a program so obviously not in, and actually destructive to, the national interest.

your post suggest you are very unenlightened when you assume the National interest is the property of the rich, as Thailand has long been controlled by 1% of the Rich.

I have never considered Thaksin a good politician, a smart one, but not exactly a good one unless you compare him to the Dear Leader Suthep or the cream of the Democrats crop Abhisit then he looks a whole lot better!

I think it is worth a good laugh that you think rice farmers that may be upset with the PTP over the Rice program would vote for the Democrats. They know what political parties looks out for their interest and well-being, who made the vast majority of the common people in Thailand's life much better by providing them with affordable and quality heath care, a 25% raised in the national minimum wage, the village managed micro credit development funds, the government sponsored one tambon, one product program, the improvement to village infrastructure and many others

When the Democrats added to their 2011 election platform, they would raise the minimum wage by 25% the business owners and the rich complained the Democrats quickly dropped the wage increase from their platform (dumb move) when Yingluck and PTP was elected they did exactly that and increase the minimum wage by 25%,

A better life for the vast majority of the Thai's is in the country's national interest for your information, the poor and working class are also required to get a piece of the Thai pie, If the Democrats had gone with their original platform, they would be much better accepted by the majority of the voters that vote for their own personal "National Interest:" Cheers !

Edited January 29, 2014 by kikoman

[GAZZPA]

Have to disagree. Part of the plan was to withhold this rice from the market, drive up global rice prices, and make a profit by selling into a higher market price. That was one of the selling points they touted.

Only, someone forgot that people can grow rice elsewhere and India and Vietnam stepped up production and kept global rice prices in check by providing a steady supply.

Yes, subsidies exist and had they set forth with a traditional subsidy program and managed it as a subsidy, they wouldn't be in the place they're in. The problem is that the entire program was poorly thought out and poorly executed.

Anybody who took Econ 101 could have seen this coming a mile away. And many economists around the world did see this coming and have been franticly warning Thailand to abandon the rice scheme.

I mean, this isn't rocket science.

The conspiracy to sabotage the rice pledging scheme has been ongoing since its inception.

It was conceived as a money losing subsidized program from day one. It's a subsidy, and a popular one at that. It was intended to lose money.

Even the farmers know it needs to be reformed, and it will be. I also doubt that the Thai civil service has anyone qualified to administer a plan of this scheme's scale. What makes reform more difficult is political sabotage carried out by (self censorship here).

If Thailand can't even organize an election how can anyone expect them to run a scheme of the rice pledging plan's magnitude. Recall the flood a couple of years ago? They need better water resource managers as well.

I can't find a single G7 country that does not afford agricultural subsidies. They are constantly squabbling about them in the WTO and NAFTA. I think this is why Thailand can't offer an outright subsidy as the competing counties would cry foul to the WTO.

Elitists prefer corporate welfare for those "two big to fail". It's all money politics and in Thailand it is uniquely centred mostly around (self censorship here). Thailand isn't broke and isn't going broke any time soon.

This turmoil will continue until the sad day that the inevitable happens and the question of (self censorship here) is resolved, this because most of Thailand is owned by (self censorship here).

When the crap started to hit the fan, 1 gut on here posted he had talked with his uncle about the problems. His uncle said

"It's Abhisit's fault, he let other countries grow rice."

Which just goes to show, you can't fix stupid.

I am not so sure it's stupid. I know people will criticize my next point but from working here, for a Thai company I have found the following to be true..

There is a remarkable and unbelievable arrogance with some Thai people. This country has a culture where back handers and brown envelopes can fix anything (literally) this translates to a belief that anything can be manipulated, fixed or controlled by anyone from the hi so society, even crazy things such as your example, he probably genuinely believes this to be viable.

I have a real example… A Thai businessman I know (mentioning no one of course) wanted to do some business in the West in a particular field so I linked him up with a colleague of mine. The deal did not go well for my colleague in the West and the Thai businessman screwed him out of a significant amount of money, this was absolutely deliberate and only for financial gain. He actually sent an email to my colleague in the West telling him what he was going to do (which was illegal) and challenged him to do anything about it!

5 months later the Thai businessman asked me to reconnect him with my colleague in the west as he needed help with a deal! (my colleague in the West has particular expertise and contacts in the field he is trading in). I looked a little stunned and said he will not do business with you again. This comment did not go down well at all, he said this is just business and things should not be taken so personally, he did not see his actions as immoral or a loss of face because he had gained wealth. I called my colleague in the West and told him that the Thai businessman wanted to reconnect, he them gave me a long list of unpleasant expletives to quote back to the Thai gentleman. He stated his disbelief that the man had the audacity to even consider contacting him again...

The Thai business man is wealthy, he is used to getting his own way and by and large he lives in the "Thai bubble" which is where he makes most of his money. He does not understand that money does not buy people so easily elsewhere and that once you do something like this "Hi So" or not there is no coming back,,, your reputation is finished and people will give you a wide berth no matter how fat your wallet.

I would like to say that this is an extreme example but I am not so sure..

For the rice pledging fiasco the danger is that even though the farmers have been screwed over it doesn't mean that 500 baht and a promise to fix it won't buy their vote again.

[SPIKECM]

The Rice Pledging Scheme was just like the Hunt brothers attempting to corner the market in silver. Silver Thursday. Of course to Thais, their country is unique and their cunning a cut above the rest of the world. Thai arrogance in its various forms and on both sides of the political divide got Thailand into the present situation. They will have to lose their arrogance to get out of it and that is very hard to see happen.

[kikoman]

On BBC just now.

"I don't think I'll vote for them again, as I haven;t been paid (for my rice)."

.

So they can vote for the Democrats instead and see off the Shinawatra party. Oh no, hang on a second, the Democrats have given two fingers to democracy so the farmers don't have an alternative to vote for. Looks like its going to be the Shins again, thanks to the Democrats dereliction of duty.

Thailand doesn't have democracy. It has Taksinocracy ( which is a kind of plutocracy which is not a good thing ). So the Dems decided to boycott the election and rightly so.

The Democrats boycotted the election so they could fill the power vacuum ,if Yingluck resigned from office . Again they chose to be on the wrong side, if it were not for bad luck they would not have any luck at all,

They will forever be remembered as the party that favored a dictatorship for Thailand, and are not worthy of their party being named the Democrats.

Cheers

[rogerdee123]

On BBC just now.

"I don't think I'll vote for them again, as I haven;t been paid (for my rice)."

.

So they can vote for the Democrats instead and see off the Shinawatra party. Oh no, hang on a second, the Democrats have given two fingers to democracy so the farmers don't have an alternative to vote for. Looks like its going to be the Shins again, thanks to the Democrats dereliction of duty.

Thailand doesn't have democracy. It has Taksinocracy ( which is a kind of plutocracy which is not a good thing ). So the Dems decided to boycott the election and rightly so.

The Democrats boycotted the election so they could fill the power vacuum ,if Yingluck resigned from office . Again they chose to be on the wrong side, if it were not for bad luck they would not have any luck at all,

They will forever be remembered as the party that favored a dictatorship for Thailand, and are not worthy of their party being named the Democrats.

Cheers

wait and see .... by the next election there won't be a Democrat Party and there won't be a PTP Party and probably several other parties will disappear. The deck will be reshuffled and politicians will reallign and some of the current violent enemies will be political allies ...... and most of the international press and farang community won't understand or remember who used to be who .....

[zydeco]

Thailand's ability to feed itself in the future is uncertain, as it was before the present controversy, with the rice farmers aging and retiring and their children turning their backs on the family farm due to the hard work and low profit, are going into other career fields.

The PTP must take responsibilities for their mistakes up to the point (2) months ago ehen they became a caretaker government and were no longer allowed to borrow money to pay the nations farmers.

The EC must approve any request for a loan to the government and for the last two months have rejected all the PTP loan request to pay the farmers, as the EC has actively championed the protest request to cancel the election. As voiced on this forum the opposition to the government, are actively backing the EC refusal to pay the farmers, that are being held as political hostages, in the hopes they will vote against the current government. The EC must bear the responsibilities for denying payment to a million and a half Thai farmers (only for political gain)!

Many of the nation farmers will leave the rice fields and look to more profitable crops or into other occupations to support themselves and their families!

Thailand will end up the loser in the long run with a vastly decreased national rice production, by the EC failure to approve the loan to pay the farmers!

Cheers

And that my friend is called supply and demand and progress.

They will turn to other profitable crops which they will be able to sustain them and their family. With the extra money they may be able to afford more nutritional foods such as meats, fruits, and vegetables which has actually been happening now with a declining trend in per capita rice consumption.

Demonizing the WORLD BANK

I remember on the 9th of October (5 days after rice farmers were not paid) last year the world bank said the scheme was incurring heavy losses and the Deputy PM defended Thailand and criticized the world bank saying the two-year pledging scheme for farmers cost the state only Bt200 billion. Mr Niwatthamrong ruled out a report that PT would have only Bt230 billion for rice purchases in the 2013/2014 crop, stating the Cabinet approved Bt270 billion for the scheme up until the end of February, 2014. That was a lie. But if it was not a lie then they had budgeted enough money and all would be good now? The rice farmers started waiting for payments from the 4th of January and even on that day the PTP were saying everything was OK. Doesn't sound like the EC's fault? If the PTP had taken the advice of the World Bank they would not be in this position today.

Demonizing IMF

I remember on the 12th of November (1 month and 8 days since rice farmers were not paid) last year IMF urged Thailand to drop its multibillion-dollar rice subsidy program. The the Finance Ministry said it hadn't seen the IMF report and wasn't worried about the subsidy program. The Commerce Minister Niwatthamrong Boonsongpaisal however did say something and that was surprise surprise refuting the claim, telling reporters last week that losses from the program should be not over 100 billion baht a year. That was a lie. If it wasn't a lie the rice farmers would be paid and all would be good now. 1 month and 8 days after rice farmers stopped getting paid the PTP said everything was still OK. Doesn't sound like the EC's fault. Had the PTP listened to the IMF they would not be in this position today.

Now we fast forward to today and even though the world bank had warned them. IMF had warned them. Even though the Deputy PM said they had budgeted for the 13/14 crop season. Even though the finance minster said "nothing to worry about". Even though the Commerce minister said he refuted the claim and demonized the IMF..drum roll...It is now the EC's fault that the rice farmers haven't been paid. PTP logic.

Unaccountability is the PTP's favorite dish. Followed for desert by blame. Washed down with a swig of propaganda so it can all be digested.

I do love your blind faith in this party though. It is admirable and worthy of a mention at the yearly PTP ministry of propaganda awards night.

I live in a rice growing village for almost a decade my view of rural Thailand is better than most, T.V.posters can see from their bar stool or out of the window of their local go go bar. Many of these clueless posters in their daily yellow tinted lies, states that PTP is at fault for Thailand no longer being the worlds top rice exporting country. I posted to the facts as I witness them here in the village,

In our family all our current crop of university students , 7 as we speak all will not be following their parents in to the family farm, that is a trend all over the country,due to the hard work, low pay that has kept Thailand as the top rice producing and rice exporting country in the world for 31 years off of the backs of the farmers.

Pray tell me with facts, how my propaganda (your word, not mine) is not more creditable than the excrement the Suthep sympathizer spread every day.on this forum, Your post kind of indicates you fancy yourself knowledgeable and clearly understand much about international Organization and procedures, if you are so "worldly" why do you not understand about international Democracies, constitutional rights, the rule of law and definition of terrorist activities are in the world and specific to Democracies, many on this forum believe that the Thai people do not deserve the rights they enjoyed in their home countries,and I simply believe that they do.

Do not quit your day job, as you could be an award winner on the American TV show "are you smarter than a fifth grader"

Common sense is not a gift, it is a punishment, when you have it you still have to deal with all those that don't.

Cheers

I'm happy to hear that the sons and daughters of farmers are in college, preparing for different careers. They are going to need it. Their families' old way of life is about to be vaporized. Small farms are not sustainable in the Thaksin model of the world. He wants their land to build big agribusiness with international partners. This is the exact same thing that happened to small farmers in Mexico. NAFTA arrived and obliterated them. They couldn't compete with the big industrial farmers and were effectively forced off their land to search for work in the US. Bad for everybody around. And that's the future for Thailand. IMO.

[Piichai]

The Democrats are within their rights not to contest the election but any party that doesn't stand, or voter that doesn't vote, thereby loses any and all rights to complain about how the winning party then runs the country.

Free speech is free speech. There are (as of yet) no Speech Police to check one's voting record.

'Politicians not contesting election may be to their advantage'. How about 'farmer not planting seed may be to his advantage', 'fisherman not going fishing may be to his advantage'. Weird thinking. I mean, if politicians don't contest elections, <deleted> are they for?

You obviously don't know much about farming or sustainable fishing.

[kikoman]

Rogerdee123

I believe that also, the history of Thai politics since 2001 has been that the powers that be have always had the peoples party dissolved by their court, TRT was first, then PPP and Next it will be PTP, the Democrats where also the target of party being dissolve but the elites court systems have always failed to convict them, at the moment the Democrats have (5) outstanding cases of alleged corruption that the court has been sitting on for 3 years but they are going to fast track the case against Yingluck.

But make no mistake, Thaksin has awaken a sleeping giant, and showed Thai's what the power of their vote can accomplish, no matter what happens to PTP the new party that is formed will have the overwhelming support of the common people of Thailand!

Cheers