Red shirts in Chiang Mai in favour of new capital in case of coup

[Chicog]

Weren't they talking about relocating the capital anyway? In order to avoid the inevitable future floods.

[diehard60]

Sadly enough this might be the only solution.

Why are you saying this is thaksin's. it is actually suthep's

[BillyBobThai]

Of the 10 years I have lived in Thailand, the first 6 were in Pattaya. The next 2 up country in Phichit, and the last 2 here in Chiang Mai. Of the 3 places, Chiang Mai is by far the best place to live. I sure would hate to move back to Pattaya, maybe Phuket.

[leosuntime]

I just came back from bkk, thai ppl there hate foreigners, u just just feel it every where

plus you can see the money is being stolen from hard working ppl there is inflation every where

I keep wondering when the Western countries stop giving govt money to ppl they will pluge into similar a senario

class warfare

Edited January 30, 2014 by leosuntime

[firebasejay]

I wonder what the immigration policy will be for the new North Thailand. Any comments on that one?

During civil wars, expats generally leave ...

i keep thinking about the movie the Killing Fields...

[Halion]

This article reveals both the intellect and intelligence of the partisan Red shirts and serves to further indite that both the Shin's and the PTP should go.

Isan as a separate state would revert to a Cambodian style of democracy. Time for the north to stop acting in such a parasitic and arrogant manner. Take the gangsters, mafia types and corrupted despots and wannabe's out of the Red shirt movement and there would be a good chance of reconciliation. Let them remain at your peril.

[Gweiloman]

Just imagine if this would ever come to pass...........

The biggest hindrance would be the lack of access to ports and harbours. However, the North would be in control of the water. They could flood Bangkok at their will, thus ensuring that industries would relocate.

At the same time, they also control a lot of the staple diet of Thais...... as well as the cheap labour.

Bangkok might slowly start to lose their supply of maids, drivers, cleaners..... bar girls, massage girls.... (horror of horrors). They would also have nowhere to go for their holidays (Nan, Pai, CM etc would require visas for Bangkokians)

The problems of the deep South would then be that of the Bkk administration - I'm sure any govt would love to be rid of that problem.

[Fullstop]

It's just getting too silly now.

[firebasejay]

Weren't they talking about relocating the capital anyway? In order to avoid the inevitable future floods.

no, of course not. something like that that would make sense

[northernjohn]

The Confederate Provinces of Thailand...capital Chiang Mai. The Confederate States of America with their capital in Richmond Virginia tried a similar approach about 150 years ago during the American Civil War--the new capital thing didn't work out.

There is no comparison between Yingluck and Jefferson Davis.

The only link they have is they are both losers.

For the Non Americans and the ones who don't know Jefferson Davis was the president of the rebellious South with there capitol in Richmond Virginia.

[firebasejay]

The Confederate Provinces of Thailand...capital Chiang Mai. The Confederate States of America with their capital in Richmond Virginia tried a similar approach about 150 years ago during the American Civil War--the new capital thing didn't work out.

There is no comparison between Yingluck and Jefferson Davis.

The only link they have is they are both losers.

For the Non Americans and the ones who don't know Jefferson Davis was the president of the rebellious South with there capitol in Richmond Virginia.

Yea, a shining moment in American History. Their own example of "to hell with democracy"... Thailand's current debale is hardly unprecedented

[monkeycountry]

SOUTH CHINA MORNING POST

Red shirts in Chiang Mai in favour of new capital in case of coup

BANGKOK: -- The red shirt movement in Chiang Mai province has prepared a retreat for caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra should the military stage a coup d'etat.

In that case, Yingluck government can be relocated to Chiang Mai, the home province of the Shinawatra clan, with the Northern city becoming the capital.

Hong Kong-based South China Morning Post quoted red shirt activist, Mahawang Kawang, as saying that their movement is large enough to challenge the military.

"We are not afraid. All the red groups will unite. We are willing to sacrifice our lives," said Kawang, president of the alumni association of Yupparaj school in Chiang Mai where Yingluck was once a student.

"It is likely the government will move to Chiang Mai. We can defeat tanks because we have the numbers," Kawang added.

Red shirt supporters have spread rumours that the military will intervene to quell the ongoing chaos in the country caused by antigovernment protests led by former Democrat MP Suthep Thaugsuban. Suthep has led 'Bangkok Shutdown' campaign since January 13, seeking national reform

The Post reported that some experts consider the government relocating as an unlikely prospect.

Red shirt organiser Supon Fumuljaroen, a former classmate of Thaksin, is now vicechairman of the UDD in Chiang Mai province. They both hail from the small town of San Kamphaeng, about 30 minutes drive from the city of Chiang Mai.

The Post quoted Supon, a former policeman as saying "The majority of redshirts really like the idea of a separate state. If they stage a coup, we can live without Bangkok."

Pinkaew Laungaramsri, a sociologist at Chiang Mai University, said the northsouth divide meant that Thailand was breaking up.

"If the government is kicked out then Yingluck will be invited to set up a government here in Chiang Mai," she said.

-- The Nation 2014-01-30

Once again the red shirts demonstrate their complete lack of economical understanding. A country comprising only of the north and northeast would be a financial disaster for that country. But hey, if they want to try, why not let them. The rest of Thailand would only be missing 2 things in that case, rice and cheap labour, both of which can be imported quite cheap and plentiful from neighbouring countries.

on the contrary the new country in the north/northeast would be missing pretty much everything but rice and cheap labour - especially cash :-)

[oldthaihand99]

Great idea, I think!

Once they're landlocked I wonder how they will get products, etc. delivered.

But they can try selling their rice 40% above market value. Any industry that produced would likely move to "South Thailand" (if there is North & South Thailand as the new states) where the minimum wage would probably be reversed to a level that reflects the actual qualification of workers.

Wonder how they will finance this new country then!

That's an easy one: SHIN-CASINOS INC. ! ! ! ! ! !

Casinos, rice, gogos, bargirls & sex tourism.

This would lead to mass tourism to N Thailand.

In turn that would result in the need for mass construction & improvement of the infrastructure there, as well as many businesses springing up (e.g. 7-11's everywhere) & tons of $$$$.

The foreign sex industry in BKK would die with Isaan workers going to the North where the sex tourists would follow. BKK will eventually be under water, anyway.

[tim armstrong]

The thing is how to regain the confidence of the ricegrowers - their whole industry is in deep poo, and it's all the governments fault. The ricegrowers wont forget that. Just like the Isaan farmers have never forgotten what happened to their hardwood forests. Its a long way from being over yet, and the gov't will go, sooner or later.

[pacovl46]

I honestly hope that all Red Shirts groups do get together to go up against the army because then the army can weed them out all in one go once and forever!!!

Edited January 30, 2014 by pacovl46

[edwardandtubs]

The whole concept of 'Thainess' is an artificial social construct created in the 1930s and 40s by military dictator Marshal Plaek. It's likely to break apart at some stage just as Yugoslavia and other artificial constructs have.

[aussiebebe]

Just imagine if this would ever come to pass...........

The biggest hindrance would be the lack of access to ports and harbours. However, the North would be in control of the water. They could flood Bangkok at their will, thus ensuring that industries would relocate.

At the same time, they also control a lot of the staple diet of Thais...... as well as the cheap labour.

Bangkok might slowly start to lose their supply of maids, drivers, cleaners..... bar girls, massage girls.... (horror of horrors). They would also have nowhere to go for their holidays (Nan, Pai, CM etc would require visas for Bangkokians)

The problems of the deep South would then be that of the Bkk administration - I'm sure any govt would love to be rid of that problem.

It could work out well, depending on where the country was divided.

Unless the border came right up to Bangkok, they'd still have plenty of farmland to flood in order to save the capital. It's actually the government's reluctance to let flood water pass through the capital that causes problems upcountry, not the other way round.

In terms of labor migration, workers come because of a shortage of opportunities near their homes and higher earning potential in the capital - I don't see them working in the north for less money any time soon.

The deep south issue could be remedied through the annexation of the southern three provinces with the century-old idea to build a canal.

[LarryBird]

SOUTH CHINA MORNING POST

Red shirts in Chiang Mai in favour of new capital in case of coup

BANGKOK: -- The red shirt movement in Chiang Mai province has prepared a retreat for caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra should the military stage a coup d'etat.

In that case, Yingluck government can be relocated to Chiang Mai, the home province of the Shinawatra clan, with the Northern city becoming the capital.

Hong Kong-based South China Morning Post quoted red shirt activist, Mahawang Kawang, as saying that their movement is large enough to challenge the military.

"We are not afraid. All the red groups will unite. We are willing to sacrifice our lives," said Kawang, president of the alumni association of Yupparaj school in Chiang Mai where Yingluck was once a student.

"It is likely the government will move to Chiang Mai. We can defeat tanks because we have the numbers," Kawang added.

Red shirt supporters have spread rumours that the military will intervene to quell the ongoing chaos in the country caused by antigovernment protests led by former Democrat MP Suthep Thaugsuban. Suthep has led 'Bangkok Shutdown' campaign since January 13, seeking national reform

The Post reported that some experts consider the government relocating as an unlikely prospect.

Red shirt organiser Supon Fumuljaroen, a former classmate of Thaksin, is now vicechairman of the UDD in Chiang Mai province. They both hail from the small town of San Kamphaeng, about 30 minutes drive from the city of Chiang Mai.

The Post quoted Supon, a former policeman as saying "The majority of redshirts really like the idea of a separate state. If they stage a coup, we can live without Bangkok."

Pinkaew Laungaramsri, a sociologist at Chiang Mai University, said the northsouth divide meant that Thailand was breaking up.

"If the government is kicked out then Yingluck will be invited to set up a government here in Chiang Mai," she said.

-- The Nation 2014-01-30

Once again the red shirts demonstrate their complete lack of economical understanding. A country comprising only of the north and northeast would be a financial disaster for that country. But hey, if they want to try, why not let them. The rest of Thailand would only be missing 2 things in that case, rice and cheap labour, both of which can be imported quite cheap and plentiful from neighbouring countries.

on the contrary the new country in the north/northeast would be missing pretty much everything but rice and cheap labour - especially cash :-)

Sick analysis.

[kimamey]

On a recent 3-day trip to Nan in the North I did not see a single plastic bag or other litter discarded anywhere. Early one morning outside the Guest House in a small Soi in Nan where I was staying, there was someone sweeping the Soi with a jacket saying "Volunteer" on it. Everything was neat and tidy.

Compare that to the situation near my condo at Cha-Am to the South. Plastic bags and rubbish in large amounts strewn everywhere beside the roads. It's a disgrace.

Maybe the North/South divide is more than just politics.

By the way, I was pleasantly surprised by the general prosperity of Nan and even (surprisingly) in the remoter areas in the vicinity like Pua and Chiang Klang. There was even a Tesco-Lotus in the latter town. Many road works in progress in the area. I don't believe the support for Phua Thai is due to the alleged vote buying to any significant extent. No doubt there is poverty in the remote areas, but even at the end of the road near the border with Laos I did not see any extreme poverty.

I do not support any political faction - I'm only reporting my observations.

I wish it were that tidy in the North East.

[WAERTH]

Thailand will never split in 2. If it goes it will split in more than 2 parts.

Isaan and Lanna will never want to be in one country together. They are totally different culturally. So we have a 3 way split there already.

Then how long do you think the Northern Lao Isaannites will want to stay together with the Southern Khmer Isaannites? There is no love lost between them either. So we have a 4 way split then.

Now the Muslim deep south will want to go as well then. So we have a 5 way split already.

And then we have 2 more possible, but less likely split off's.

The province of Nan wasn't fully incorperated into Thailand until the 20th century and its royal family abolished until the thirties of the 20th century.

Nakhon Si Thammarat has historically been the kingdom dominating the south.

So if worst comes to worst we might end up with a 7 way split.

[Andre0720]

BERLIN....

[bigbamboo]

So stupid and idiotic.

Weren't you taught tautology?

[steveromagnino]

The North and Eastern Thailand per capita earn the lowest amount of money in the whole nation.

Economic growth in Issan reached 40 percent from 2007 to 2011, against 23 percent for the country and just 17 percent for greater Bangkok.[/size]

The diffference in wealth now in marginal or non existent from the South.Dont necessarily disagree with your other point.

Isaan and the north are seeing improvements in GDP from personal consumption, household debt and government spending. Also, somewhat driven by the artificial rice pledging schemes of PPP and again now in the last 2 years. With people willing to spend and a lack of retail and opportunities for growth, it is no surprise that businesses are targeting this area. That doesn't mean upcountry is going to replace Bangkok any time soon as an engine for the Thai economy.

2010 data GDP by region per capita

Northeast 44,516

North 68,015

Central 218,088

Bangkok 412,887

Eastern 441,000 (due to eastern seaboard)

Southern 118,000 (pushed up by Phuket, dragged down by the southern most 3 provinces in civil unrest)

Western 105,000

As you can see, North and Northeast really are not in good shape; massive growth rates are from a low base, because,basically, they don't work effectively/efficiently in jobs of value for the most part.

So yes, economic growth in the northeast region reached 40% from 2007 to 2011, against 23% for the country and just 17% for greater Bangkok." As a comparison by region http://www.reuters.com/.../us-thailand-northeast... - Thailand's growth in the last 5 years has hit 23% overall given the recession in 2008.

Isaan and the North together make up around <20% of Thailand's GDP (as regions data 2010) with about 50%+ of the population.

As one of my friends pointed out, it would take simply massive economic growth in the North East to have any sizeable impact on Thailand GDP as a whole since they contribute only around 10% of the country's GDP (2010 data).

If you deducted out the inflows of cash for Isaan from Bangkok and the factories where most of Thailand's population work, you would discover a fairly poor area without a lot of industry and not a lot of likelihood of industry except for their local markets in future compared to the eastern seaboard - there's a huge premium on logistics when manufacturing.

Also, now that the agriculture sector has been stripped out through FTAs and the rice pledging scheme which will have to end (causing a major disruption to the entire sector who have spent buying tractors and other stuff they may no longer want when the price of rice drops 50%), it's likely to go back before it goes forward again.

Logic is stay as a country, and give the regions far more autonomy. After all, who is anyone to say that you should choose someone smart to represent your interests...if you want a moron, you can have a moron. But best to keep the country in one piece.

Edited January 30, 2014 by steveromagnino

[Toscano]

I have put forward this idea several times in various blogs . Those who question where the financing will come from for northern social needs have a point , that Bangkok and Rayong seem to be the industrial centre . The workforce in general comes from the north and northeast and if they didn't come south ,

the current industries would lack manpower . There is plenty of room for industrial expansion in cities like Khon Kaen , Udon Thani and Changmai , so

factories could be relocated to where the workers are . These main cities have good airports that could take a lot more use , for transporting goods in

and out . Thaksin could return to the north to govern and my guess is that he would know how to make the north prosperous to compete with or outstrip the south . Personally I would have made Khon Kaen the capital , being further south and more central . Dream on Redshirts , but it is not an impossibility .

[Tatsujin]

No problem as long as none of the tax I pay goes to fund them up there. We'll then see how long the local rice farmers can sustain them without the support of the oh so hated middle class and elite.

[AlphMichaels]

" The Post quoted Supon, a former policeman as saying "The majority of redshirts really like the idea of a separate state. If they stage a coup, we can live without Bangkok."

Yeah right. Then you will end up like other land locked metropolis' such as Loas, Afghanistan, South Sudan etc etc

Are you sure? According to the last election results, it seems to me that Bangkok would be the almost land locked metropolis in such a scenario. Even the entire North East of Bangkok is red:

Could draw the line with this election results map. Feel for the people in those Northeast little blue pockets.

This is getting rather silly, don't we think?

[mercman24]

i think big companies are looking closly at this dire situation and if the stupid participants with their respective heads buried in the sand, can't see this, large companies this includes finace, will locate somewhere else, and be welcomed with open arms. the writing is on the wall,

[Theoutsider]

Might have to overcome the beef between the north and issan.

[ianf]

First good idea I have heard from a red shirt

Are you serious???? Wow!

There are a number of reasons why this could not happen and will not happen. Apart from anything else it would not be allowed by those in higher places.

But I understand, and have understood for the past couple of years, that the wonderful unused (virtually) Convention Centre was actually built as the new HQ for the Northern Thai Thaksin Government.

Fun Days ahead, eh?

The red propaganda aimed at Kids here in Chiang Mai is also interesting. Because they have no real access to independent information a lot of teenage kids realy believe that Thaksin is a saviour ..... Such is the power of media brainwashing.

[pipkins]

Great idea, I think!

Once they're landlocked I wonder how they will get products, etc. delivered.

But they can try selling their rice 40% above market value. Any industry that produced would likely move to "South Thailand" (if there is North & South Thailand as the new states) where the minimum wage would probably be reversed to a level that reflects the actual qualification of workers.

Wonder how they will finance this new country then!

Your geography needs many many lessons indeed. That big wet thing at the top of the Country is called "A River" It connects China with the Sea, Burma, Laos, Vietnam and THAILAND. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mekong

Finances easy. Many are taking this seriously and many countries have split. They have all the water and they sell that to South Thailand.. Unless Suthep has ideas for a brand new system to catch his own water. They have hydro electricity and all the rice. BKK can of course buy on the free market from other countries.

Good thing here is that it leaves the yellows in the South totally under the jack boot of Suthep and they have to finance the Enormous Army and Elite spongers that will come with it.

The bill for the taxpayers in the South would break Sutheps Poodles Council You think the rice scheme is bad? If the North broke off, The Army would still want it's 5.7 Billiion US dollars to spend on toys. With the rice scheme you have rice. ... with the army you have political interference and extreme ineptitude everytime it has to do anything military related.. like the out of control violence in the area under their control in pattani.

Meanwhile the Elite Clique are growing and expanding. There needs to be enough money to keep all of them in the manner they are accustomed to. There are thousands claiming aristocratic rights and respects and a place at the trough. Southern tax payers want to finance all this?

For the South to mull this over might make them look at their leaders and decide they want them out.

Edited January 30, 2014 by pipkins