Pheu Thai seeks clearer explanation from Army

[geriatrickid]

As long as the police do their job, why would YL's people be concerned?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I think that's the problem. The police aren't doing their job (never really do). The article is clearly wrong when saying this would be unacceptable by "all the people". Many love the army. They were there during the floods with the police nowhere to be found.

What exactly did you expect the police to do? Did they have the all terrain vehicles, and heavy trucks during the floods? Did they have a corps of engineers? The police are typically from the community and were hit as hard as the general population with their homes and families victims of the floods. The two comments above illustrate the hysterical bias of many foreigners that sees a suspension of common sense. The police service is characterized by a lack of resources and a funding for those resources. It is pie in the sky to expect poorly trained and poorly equipped personnel to undertake activities that are beyond its means. Keep in mind that the military makes sure it gets the lion's share of public security funding. Aside from it keeping their group funded and in clover, it keeps the police from ever being able to present itself as a viable public security entity.

The topic is about the elections. My comments related to crowd control and the elections. What do ATV's have to do with the elections?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

The key line was "They were there during the floods with the police nowhere to be found". I provided an explanation as to why the flood response task went to the army. Someone else laughs and says the army is made up of conscripts. It isn't. The core is made up of regulars, with less than 40% derived from conscripts. It still has approximately 120,000 army full time and reservists to draw on. It has all manner of equipment such as armoured vehicles and trucks to transport the soldiers.

Compare this to the number of actual number of uniformed police officers that can be deployed throughout Thailand. There are . 50,000 regular uniformed officers + 41,000 Border Police. Take into consideration the physical ability of some of the older police, the need to maintain some basic police service around the country, and the fact that the BP cannot be removed from the border and that gives perhaps 5,000-10,000 that can be moved from various regions to special duties like helping an election.

Can you not see that the police have neither the personnel, nor the equipment to do all the things people are demanding of them? They can't stop big protests like Suthep (or the redshirts for that matter) because they don't have the manpower, nor the equipment. Only the army has actual full time personnel on hand and the equipment that would allow an area to be secured.

There is a reason why the civilian authority, the police are kept in a weakened state, while the army has the big budget. Can you understand now why the police cannot provide the security that is demanded? Suthep knows why, since he is one of the persons who set the police budget.

[craigt3365]

http://www.interpol.int/Member-countries/Asia-South-Pacific/Thailand:

Headed by a Commissioner General, the Royal Thai Police (RTP) is under the direct command of the Prime Minister. With a strength of about 230,000 officers,

My wife's uncle is in the border patrol unit and is now in Bangkok. She spoke with him on the phone and was chuckling as they'd been given a week off work to go vote during the advanced voting.

[Old Man River]

As long as the police do their job, why would YL's people be concerned?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I think that's the problem. The police aren't doing their job (never really do). The article is clearly wrong when saying this would be unacceptable by "all the people". Many love the army. They were there during the floods with the police nowhere to be found.

What exactly did you expect the police to do? Did they have the all terrain vehicles, and heavy trucks during the floods? Did they have a corps of engineers? The police are typically from the community and were hit as hard as the general population with their homes and families victims of the floods. The two comments above illustrate the hysterical bias of many foreigners that sees a suspension of common sense. The police service is characterized by a lack of resources and a funding for those resources. It is pie in the sky to expect poorly trained and poorly equipped personnel to undertake activities that are beyond its means. Keep in mind that the military makes sure it gets the lion's share of public security funding. Aside from it keeping their group funded and in clover, it keeps the police from ever being able to present itself as a viable public security entity.

The topic is about the elections. My comments related to crowd control and the elections. What do ATV's have to do with the elections?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

The key line was "They were there during the floods with the police nowhere to be found". I provided an explanation as to why the flood response task went to the army. Someone else laughs and says the army is made up of conscripts. It isn't. The core is made up of regulars, with less than 40% derived from conscripts. It still has approximately 120,000 army full time and reservists to draw on. It has all manner of equipment such as armoured vehicles and trucks to transport the soldiers.

Compare this to the number of actual number of uniformed police officers that can be deployed throughout Thailand. There are . 50,000 regular uniformed officers + 41,000 Border Police. Take into consideration the physical ability of some of the older police, the need to maintain some basic police service around the country, and the fact that the BP cannot be removed from the border and that gives perhaps 5,000-10,000 that can be moved from various regions to special duties like helping an election.

Can you not see that the police have neither the personnel, nor the equipment to do all the things people are demanding of them? They can't stop big protests like Suthep (or the redshirts for that matter) because they don't have the manpower, nor the equipment. Only the army has actual full time personnel on hand and the equipment that would allow an area to be secured.

There is a reason why the civilian authority, the police are kept in a weakened state, while the army has the big budget. Can you understand now why the police cannot provide the security that is demanded? Suthep knows why, since he is one of the persons who set the police budget.

Geriatric Kid, we basically agree. I didn't write bout the floods, that was someone else.

I have been told by a "friend" that the Army is in place to back up the police, who they expect to do crowd control. This has nothing to do with a coup, which I originally suspected, but now no longer see for reasons I can't explain.

Now to get completely cryptic, there are some other issues at play that has some concerned and covers a certain organization that someone in Dubai may covet, but on paper is supposed to have nothing to do with the Palace.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Thait Spot]

Sentenced to prison by the same judges now involved in ousting the elected government. For criticising the work of other judges. It doesn't get more Kafkaesque than that.

In what way is the Appeals Court "ousting" the government?

What judges are the same?

In what way is it "Kafkaesque"?

[geriatrickid]

http://www.interpol.int/Member-countries/Asia-South-Pacific/Thailand:

Headed by a Commissioner General, the Royal Thai Police (RTP) is under the direct command of the Prime Minister. With a strength of about 230,000 officers,

My wife's uncle is in the border patrol unit and is now in Bangkok. She spoke with him on the phone and was chuckling as they'd been given a week off work to go vote during the advanced voting.

For clarification the 230,000 officers number quoted by Interpol is inaccurate. Aseanpol uses a number of 200,000 and notes that this includes clerical and administrative staff. "The Administrative Units are mainly responsible for administrative and staff matters. Its tasks include planning, staffing, reporting, and preparation of budgets, etc. " The number includes paramilitaries such as the BP (40-45,000 strong) It shouldn't come as a surprise that there are a lot of paper pushers at the RTP.

And now to the reassignment of the BP. This decision is not going to help matters on the border, and especially in the south. I can't see them pulling more than a few hundred, as the BP is overstretched. If too many officers are redeployed, the borders will see an increase in smuggling activity and our friends in the restive south will have a field day transporting contraband.

The government just made an announcement that it will deploy 10,000 officers in Bangkok. Well whoop dee doo. That's part of the existing staffing complement. Bangkok needs an additional 10,000 just to keep a lid on the violence.

[kingstonkid]

As long as the police do their job, why would YL's people be concerned?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I think that's the problem. The police aren't doing their job (never really do). The article is clearly wrong when saying this would be unacceptable by "all the people". Many love the army. They were there during the floods with the police nowhere to be found.

Coming out to do what Suthep wants is not working on a coup.

The reason tht people join any military "LONG TERM" is a belif that they want to protect and serve their country.

The military and you read teh article yesterday it is largely officers will be out to ensure as much as possible tht they can protect people from what happened last Sunday.

That on a large scale does ot help the country to mend whether it is against re or multi it is not good for the country.

HENCE, the military willhave tocome out.

YING LUCK can not ask the military as she is somewhere with her little Binkie and dolly hiding in a corner.

Give the girl a break she is after all a stereo typical HI-SO girl. She can look hot, shop, spend money and speak thai and do what her man says to do.

What more do you want?

[lovetotravel]

For clarification the 230,000 officers number quoted by Interpol is inaccurate. Aseanpol uses a number of 200,000 and notes that this includes clerical and administrative staff. "The Administrative Units are mainly responsible for administrative and staff matters. Its tasks include planning, staffing, reporting, and preparation of budgets, etc. " The number includes paramilitaries such as the BP (40-45,000 strong) It shouldn't come as a surprise that there are a lot of paper pushers at the RTP.

And now to the reassignment of the BP. This decision is not going to help matters on the border, and especially in the south. I can't see them pulling more than a few hundred, as the BP is overstretched. If too many officers are redeployed, the borders will see an increase in smuggling activity and our friends in the restive south will have a field day transporting contraband.

The government just made an announcement that it will deploy 10,000 officers in Bangkok. Well whoop dee doo. That's part of the existing staffing complement. Bangkok needs an additional 10,000 just to keep a lid on the violence.

http://news.asiaone.com/news/asia/over-200000-police-be-deployed-nationwide-thailands-polling-day

SUTHEP THAUGSUBAN, leader of the ongoing anti-government protest, yesterday threatened to bring Bangkok to a "complete shutdown" on election day, while half of the 400,000-strong national police force is expected to be deployed to maintain law and order on the day.

Assistant national police chief Pol Lt Gen Amnart An-atngam said yesterday that more than 250,000 policemen would be deployed, in addition to 1,450 rapid-deployment units on standby at police stations.

[tingtongteesood]

Indeed. And shouldn't he be in jail already rather than fronting for Pheu Thai?

Yes, for defamation but he is free on bail!!! (for now)!

He originally got a 2 year suspended sentence in June last year for Libel. This was later changed by the Appeals Court in December last year to 1 year, no suspension, no bail. And he's still walking around free fronting PT.

The continual repeated calls to arrest the protestors meanwhile this piece of ____ and the fugitive hiding out in Dubai walking free - total hypocrisy as ever from the caretakers. Sort out and clean up your own house first, then you can go after protestors.

[tingtongteesood]

Indeed. And shouldn't he be in jail already rather than fronting for Pheu Thai?

Yes, for defamation but he is free on bail!!! (for now)!

He originally got a 2 year suspended sentence in June last year for Libel. This was later changed by the Appeals Court in December last year to 1 year, no suspension, no bail. And he's still walking around free fronting PT.

Sondhi must've been convicted four or five times for defamation but he's never seen a day of jail. So it goes...

Edit: "On 7 March 2008, the Court sentenced Sondhi to one year’s imprisonment without suspension, under Section 326 of the Criminal Code, noting that he had repeatedly committed similar crimes, and ordered him to advertise his offence in 5 newspapers for 7 days. Sondhi appealed the case."

http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/2210

His appeal was rejected so he should've been in jail back in 2010 if these decisions actually held any weight. This is just one case of several he'd been up in court for at that point I believe.

Here's another from 09:

"The Criminal Court on Thursday found media mogul Sondhi Limthongkul guilty for defaming former deputy prime minister MR Pridiyathorn Devakula and sentenced him to serve two years in jail. The court cited Sondhi as a repeat offender for libel to refuse to grant him leniency for a suspended jail term.

In its ruling, the court said Sondhi made wild accusations against Pridiyathorn with the aim to sway the public sentiment but had no evidence to back up his remarks. Reacting to his verdict, Sondhi said he will fight for an overturn in the appellate review. He has sought a temporary release pending the filing of his appeal within 30 days."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/09/10/politics/politics_30111940.php

Here's another case he was sentenced for in 2010: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Sondhi-loses-libel-appeal-but-jail-term-reduced-30190726.html

And he's been involved in others since then. He's also been found guilty and sentenced for LM (Oct 2013).

Funny thing is that if any anti government type dares to even imply that the other side did the same or worse before so they are kind of justified in their actions now, we all get a verbal thrashing from the red sheeple, however you seem to think it is fine for you to use that argument to protect the fugitive and his criminal cronies. Breathtaaking hypocrisy as ever. 'Democracy' PT style indeed. PT keep bleating on and on 'we are saving democracy', 'we can't postpone the sham election because the law says so' etc etc. Democracy means you follow and obey the rule of law regardless of whether it is convenient or notใ

[Halion]

Just another rotten apple in the "Shin" barrel. The PTP is more like a circus act than a government. A veritable freak show.

[fab4]

Was this another "politically motivated" conviction then? Therefore it can be ignored? Or at some point, do those in power (on both sides), actually need to start following the law and submit to their rightful punishments?

One could argue that allegedly the various courts need to sort their act out before any kind of reform could usefully take place but that's not for me to say.

Well, nice ducking of the questions . . . but putting aside reforms for the moment . . . was he convicted or not by a democratically and legally empowered Court of Thailand? And if so, why isn't he in jail now?

It's a couple of simple questions, can't be that hard to answer in a straightforward direct manner.

I'm not going to be drawn any further into the circumstances of Prompongs defamation charge for obvious reasons.

I believe he is on, or seeking bail now after the Appeal court overturned the original suspended sentence. Refer to my first answer.

[fab4]

Do you know what the defamation case was about? it was about the dems allegedly lobbying the Constitutional Court over their dissolution case wrt the TPI Polene alleged illegal financing of 258 Million baht, allegedly caught on film but still denied.

Prompong had the temerity to call it a case of double standards and put the videos on you tube. This prompted abhisit to deny they had tried to influence the court saying that the party didn't need to as it was a "pillar for the country" - the Constitution Court, that is, not the democrat party, obviously.

The democrat MP allegedly shown in the video talking to Pasit a secretary of the President of the Constitutional Court was allegedly Wiruch Romyen,

http://www.phuketgazette.net/digitalgazette3/Content/October23-10.pdf?thequerytype=&id=76259&Cat=34

Obviously unrelated to these alleged events, Pasit was sacked shortly thereafter for damaging the courts "reputation" and on November 23rd Wiruch Romyen withdrew himself from the Democrat Party defence team fighting the dissolution cases.

Still, got to keep to the spirit of the Law eh,

Was this another "politically motivated" conviction then? Therefore it can be ignored? Or at some point, do those in power (on both sides), actually need to start following the law and submit to their rightful punishments?

One could argue that allegedly the various courts need to sort their act out before any kind of reform could usefully take place but that's not for me to say.

Well, nice ducking of the questions . . . but putting aside reforms for the moment . . . was he convicted or not by a democratically and legally empowered Court of Thailand? And if so, why isn't he in jail now?

It's a couple of simple questions, can't be that hard to answer in a straightforward direct manner.

Tatsujin, I'm a little disappointed that you have made such a decisive blow so early in the argument, as this is typically the point where fab4 leaves the discussion and moves on to somewhere else where he can start another inane, biased argument, with his good buddy gerry1011, and then move on again.

Fabbie, stick around and answer the questions just this one time, will you...?!

A decisive blow? If you say so.............

Sorry, I have a life outside of this forum. You'll find my answer elsewhere on this thread, not that I was aware I was answering your query. Do you always take such a keen interest in other peoples posts? See I find that a problem on here, you answer one person and a dozen others poke their their nose in and demand you answer them. Sorry, not going to happen.

Edit: See what I mean - post below.

Edited January 31, 2014 by fab4

[TVGerry]

Tatsujin, I'm a little disappointed that you have made such a decisive blow so early in the argument, as this is typically the point where fab4 leaves the discussion and moves on to somewhere else where he can start another inane, biased argument, with his good buddy gerry1011, and then move on again.

Fabbie, stick around and answer the questions just this one time, will you...?!

A decisive blow? If you say so.............

Sorry, I have a life outside of this forum. You'll find my answer elsewhere on this thread, not that I was aware I was answering your query. Do you always take such a keen interest in other peoples posts? See I find that a problem on here, you answer one person and a dozen others poke their their nose in and demand you answer them. Sorry, not going to happen.

Edit: See what I mean - post below.

So in other words, you can't intelligently make a retort to what he wrote so now you're doing the time honored Thai tradition of 'face saving',

[djjamie]

Tatsujin, I'm a little disappointed that you have made such a decisive blow so early in the argument, as this is typically the point where fab4 leaves the discussion and moves on to somewhere else where he can start another inane, biased argument, with his good buddy gerry1011, and then move on again.

Fabbie, stick around and answer the questions just this one time, will you...?!

A decisive blow? If you say so.............

Sorry, I have a life outside of this forum. You'll find my answer elsewhere on this thread, not that I was aware I was answering your query. Do you always take such a keen interest in other peoples posts? See I find that a problem on here, you answer one person and a dozen others poke their their nose in and demand you answer them. Sorry, not going to happen.

Edit: See what I mean - post below.

So in other words, you can't intelligently make a retort to what he wrote so now you're doing the time honored Thai tradition of 'face saving',

Fab4 has stuck in my head for all the wrong reasons now. Might need to Skype Dubai for the answers!

[PoorSucker]

flame removed

[Tatsujin]

Was this another "politically motivated" conviction then? Therefore it can be ignored? Or at some point, do those in power (on both sides), actually need to start following the law and submit to their rightful punishments?

One could argue that allegedly the various courts need to sort their act out before any kind of reform could usefully take place but that's not for me to say.

Well, nice ducking of the questions . . . but putting aside reforms for the moment . . . was he convicted or not by a democratically and legally empowered Court of Thailand? And if so, why isn't he in jail now?

It's a couple of simple questions, can't be that hard to answer in a straightforward direct manner.

I'm not going to be drawn any further into the circumstances of Prompongs defamation charge for obvious reasons.

I believe he is on, or seeking bail now after the Appeal court overturned the original suspended sentence. Refer to my first answer.

Can I take it then you have no way to answer my questions without being forced into admitting you see the hypocrisy and double standards employed by Thaksin and Pheu Thai?

[Tatsujin]

Do you know what the defamation case was about? it was about the dems allegedly lobbying the Constitutional Court over their dissolution case wrt the TPI Polene alleged illegal financing of 258 Million baht, allegedly caught on film but still denied.

Prompong had the temerity to call it a case of double standards and put the videos on you tube. This prompted abhisit to deny they had tried to influence the court saying that the party didn't need to as it was a "pillar for the country" - the Constitution Court, that is, not the democrat party, obviously.

The democrat MP allegedly shown in the video talking to Pasit a secretary of the President of the Constitutional Court was allegedly Wiruch Romyen,

http://www.phuketgazette.net/digitalgazette3/Content/October23-10.pdf?thequerytype=&id=76259&Cat=34

Obviously unrelated to these alleged events, Pasit was sacked shortly thereafter for damaging the courts "reputation" and on November 23rd Wiruch Romyen withdrew himself from the Democrat Party defence team fighting the dissolution cases.

Still, got to keep to the spirit of the Law eh,

Was this another "politically motivated" conviction then? Therefore it can be ignored? Or at some point, do those in power (on both sides), actually need to start following the law and submit to their rightful punishments?

One could argue that allegedly the various courts need to sort their act out before any kind of reform could usefully take place but that's not for me to say.

Well, nice ducking of the questions . . . but putting aside reforms for the moment . . . was he convicted or not by a democratically and legally empowered Court of Thailand? And if so, why isn't he in jail now?

It's a couple of simple questions, can't be that hard to answer in a straightforward direct manner.

Tatsujin, I'm a little disappointed that you have made such a decisive blow so early in the argument, as this is typically the point where fab4 leaves the discussion and moves on to somewhere else where he can start another inane, biased argument, with his good buddy gerry1011, and then move on again.

Fabbie, stick around and answer the questions just this one time, will you...?!

A decisive blow? If you say so.............

Sorry, I have a life outside of this forum. You'll find my answer elsewhere on this thread, not that I was aware I was answering your query. Do you always take such a keen interest in other peoples posts? See I find that a problem on here, you answer one person and a dozen others poke their their nose in and demand you answer them. Sorry, not going to happen.

Edit: See what I mean - post below.

mmmmm ... that is the biggest load of bull answer I've ever seen on here. Thanks for taking the time to prove my point.

[Jonmarleesco]

'... The outstanding spokesman ...' ???