Thai retailer apology for controversial Chinese New Year ad

[soalbundy]

Reply to THAKKAR. No defence, i don't feel i need to defend myself against the PC mob, attack yes. My vitriol, as you describe it, wasn't directed against the Chinese but against the ultra-liberal people like yourself which is turning parts of my country into something like a suburb of Bangladesh.

A good friend of mine (Chinese) who i met in the design department of a firm in Germany where i once worked invited me to his home in China. I stayed 3 weeks ( i fancied his sister like mad) It was OK (they were/are Hi-So's ) What i disliked was having to wipe of/brush of the dried phlegm from my trouser bottoms and shoes every evening, i was always scared of getting TB.

The Chinese don't need defending, they feel themselves superior to anything and everything on Gods earth.

[348GTS]

Racism is a sensitive topic. We all live in a multicultural society now where people are going to mix together.

What your ham fisted attitude clearly portrays to me is that you are about as sensitive as a brick when it comes to judging what might or might not offend someone.

This is not an easy thing to navigate and sometimes political correctness can go a bit too far. But I would rather see the odd PC misjudgment then going back to an acceptance of lack of respect and no real consideration.

Guess you would still want to buy the Gollywog jam? After all it was only a jar of jam so why get so worked up about it?

Yes we live in a society with many cultures - however this doesn't necessarily make it "multicultural". Different nationalities and ethnic/religious groups within a single country *for the most part* tend to stick to themselves and do not attempt to adapt or blend in with whatever country they have chosen to settle in. My attitude is by no means 'hamfisted', I am a realist and I see things as they are, I have merely chosen not to drink the PC Kool Aid.

The main point that I was making, and that several others in this forum seem to agree with, is that the people "offended" by the advert in question were probably not Thai or Chinese, but more than likely a very small group of western left wing PC 'do gooders' who have decided to be the moral voice for the whole planet, hell bent on forcing their own misguided interpretations and beliefs as to what constitutes and defines racism onto the rest of the world. This small group of people make no allowances for the fact that most of the world don't agree with them, and even more couldn't care less what they think.

If people stopped trying to change the definition of racism, then things would be a lot clearer. Sorry we can't hire you because you have white skin? Racism undoubtedly. Model posing in a silly advert? A cultural fau paux possibly. Juvenile? Maybe. Bad taste? Arguably. Not well thought out? Definitely. But racist? Come on... lets get real. I doubt a single Chinese or Thai person took any racial offence or made any complaints about this. Only misguided PC missionaries taking offence on behalf of everyone else who didn't ask for or need their "help" to begin with.

[GAZZPA]

It's time for me to say something.

FOR ME, this is just an ad. How people comprehend it, it's another story.

But, some people's posts , are incredibly rude, stupid, narrow minded, ignorant, and yes, racist.

I'm a Chinese, I state again. And a mainland Chinese too.

Although I hate the communism in China, I love China. From the past , into the future.

For those racist foreigners, I can only say they have ill education about history and politics of other countries.

It's not rare that China was ruled by other races, like the Yuan Dynasty (Mongolians), Qing Dynasty (Mandarin), and the People's Republic of China (once controlled by the communist Russians....)

Look at the things with a long term view, not narrowly for only a few decades, eh?

Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia, are full of Chinese. And in Thailand, most rich people and top management people are from Chinese families. In the international Olympics for Maths, Physics, Chemistry, always the Chinese students win the medals.

Chinese are able to master the western things, like classic music (Lang Lang, Yo Yo Ma, etc) and technology; But how many westerners can master Chinese things like Yi Jing, TCM...... I can write here in English (German, Japanese too), can you write back in Chinese to show your racism ?!?!?!

This is an old race. I like to be a Chinese, for its rich culture and intelligence and wisdom.

Bad luck that China is often destroyed by savage powers (buts still lucky, it did not disappear like other ancient civilisations ......).As Ying and Yang theory goes, situation always changes from time to time. My generation, and the next generations, will change China into a better country, and correct the mistakes done by our stupid and brutal ex-generations.

And how about you, racist farangs? You are lying on the achievements from your great-great-granapa generations and think you are the number one. Fine, keep dreaming.

This is shameful post. You claim to abhor racist "farangs" and yet do you very best to articulate your racist views towards foreigners.

"Chinese are able to master western things but how many westerners can master Chinese things?"

"stupid, narrow minded, ignorant"

"lying on achievements from you great-great grandpa"

It seems you have an insecurity about your own countries standing in the world and need to defend it unnecessarily.

Disgusting, completely disgusting.

I for one have worked in China for many years. There are things I don't like, things I do, this is normal I guess for anyone living away from home. I am happy that China is growing in wealth along with other developing countries and I hope one day that wealth benefits everyone.

There are undesirable, racist people from every country, but it takes an ignorant person to generalize on a nation based on statements of ignorance. You are the worst kind of ambassador for your country, you listen to poor opinions and rather then just ignore the remarks you attack back in kind.

I am sure that it will surprise you to know that most people do not think of Chinese or other people the way you think they do. Thankfully most people will view your post as ignorance and shrug it off.

Westen people and Chinese people learn from each other, Chinese people are inventive and creative people for sure but so are Westerners,, computers and tablets for example are modern day things that changed the world today and were not invented by our grandfathers. Today western companies collaborate with Chinese companies for manufacturing that benefits both sides.

Do you not see how the collaboration between Western countries and China have benftted china over the last few decades? If all Westerners had your views these collaborations would never happen.

As Chinese are now investing in the West these collaborations will benefit everyone. It's a good thing you are not part of Chinese decision making process or your country would be stuck in poverty.

[Docno]

Asked some Singapore Chinese friends what they thought. None of them felt it was racist and a couple even applauded the creativity. Maybe people need to relax and bit and be less quick to throw around the word, "racist". I suspect the people here who find the ad distasteful also feel 'farang' is a racist epithet.

[nisakiman]

Right, the mall management company has removed the ad, and has apologised for it. Some people reckon the ad is funny, whilst others reckon it is offensive. The mall company has removed it because it IS harming the sales of their business.

Let's hope the company does not make a similar mistake in the future. And let's hope other advertising groups don't make the same mistake again.

And yes, it is a mistake, an advert is suppose to improve the image (boost sales), and not do the opposite !

Do you have any evidence for that statement?

I for one would be very surprised if it influenced their business one way or another in the short term, and I would be even more surprised if it had a long-term negative impact.

As I said before, I very much doubt if any Chinese / Thai-Chinese found it terribly offensive. It's only the oh-so-liberal western meddlers who wish to impose their personal sub-set of morals on everyone else who find it offensive.

The company certainly hadn't removed the ad as of yesterday afternoon, and I would be disappointed if they had bowed down to the mealy-mouthed complainants of the PC brigade and apologised. If I was responsible for that ad, I most certainly wouldn't apologise, indeed, I would probably thank the moral meddlers (in a decidedly back-handed way) for the publicity.

[yourauntbob]

This.

Just because you, personally, aren't offended does not mean the ad isn't racist.

Just because you personally are offended doesn't mean the ad is racist.

So, how many people have to be offended before it is racist? Didn't realize it was a numbers game, thought being racist was all about having a derogatory view of people based purely upon their nationality / skin color.

Seems to me this ad could be interpreted badly, it seems a lot of people agree with that from the posts here. If you are not offended, good for you but I think it is offensive. It was a stupid ad and the advertising agency should have known better.

take a look at the post between your quote and my quote (pasted below). well explained by partington. i disagree with nothing in your reply. You do not however, make any case as to why this is racist.

your right, its not a numbers game. how many people are offended does not determine if it is racist. things can be offensive and not racist, and just because something is offensive to one or more people does not inherently make it racist. the word racism is used very loosely in today's society to the point many people are forgetting what it means. if there are people out there that claim they are offended, they may be able to bring up a valid argument for their case. i don't see an argument for how this is racist.

I also don't see the problem with this. It does seem like people do not know what racism actually is, and so merely respond with horror whenever anything to do with racial characteristics is mentioned or even alluded to!

But as somebody has already posted, do people think that Asians don't know their eyes are a different shape than westerners? Everyone: people in different geographic areas have very different and easily recognisable cosmetic differences. Chinese people have black hair, and slanted eyes. Native Ugandans have black skin. Pygmy tribes in the Congo are short. Swedes are pale and white.

To use these cosmetic differences as a basis for discriminating against, insulting, or ascribing inferior status to these groups is racism. To simply mention these differences, use them as a basis for fashion, playful advertising or other positive recognition is surely not in itself automatically disallowable?

Do we now have to pretend we think you cannot tell a Han Chinese person from a Australian aborigine, or that if you can it should not be mentioned?

As one explanation of "offense" caused by that advertisement, somebody posted that in the media characters of other races have been played by westerners for many years and that is shameful. Well it is.

But this cannot explain any offense caused by this ad: in this specific case the model could not be replaced with an ethnic Chinese model and still retain any meaning! It only has a point if the model is Caucasian, because the only point is that this Caucasian wants to look Chinese, because it's good to look Chinese.

Is this idea in itself offensive? Is it intrinsically offensive to try to copy the physical characteristics of another race, even in a complimentary way? I can't see why, but I'm willing to be convinced. My argument is not that it can't be offensive because I myself am not offended, it is that I just don't know WHY some people see it as offensive.

[tonbridgebrit]

It certainly created publicity and what was it someone said about bad publicity?

I think it provocative and pushing the line as does good marketing. The not so subtle message is obviously a jab at both Asians and Westerners, because the hidden message is that asians for a long time have really tried to imitate the richer, 'superior' culture of the west - even if they won't admit it. Now, china is growing as a power and culture and this here is basically a bit of etno-nationalistic pun at both white and asians alike.

Remember, the goal is to sell more, if you can sell the message to embrace the chinese, because they are the next superpower, then you can get people spending like they do at 'christmas' here in Thailand even if christmas has zero cultural relevance.

It's a way of saying, try something new, there is more than western culture.

Good to see someone actually understood the marketing. Most posters appear to have missed the message completely. The suggestion to have had a "good looking Chinese girl" in the ad instead would have completely negated the theme.

Well yes, it might be the case that lot's of people on TV have miss-interpreted the advert, or they have failed to grasp the message correctly. These are the people who are saying that it is offensive.

However, are there people (who are not on TV), who looked at the advert, and they did find it offensive ?

Let's just say that there are/were people who did find it offensive, and they refused to 'buy the product' due to the 'offensive' advert.

Surely, it is the job of the advertising company to create an advert that is easily understood (or grasped) by most people (or indeed, everyone).

Making an advert, where YOU yourself did not find offensive, but noticing later that some people do find it offensive, you then realise that the advert is NOT boosting the image, and hence, you end up apologising and removing the advert. Well, surely, it would have been better to have been more carefull to start of with !

[attrayant]

take a look at the post between your quote and my quote (pasted below). well explained by partington. i disagree with nothing in your reply. You do not however, make any case as to why this is racist.

As the concept of race is largely (perhaps entirely) a social construct, it follows that a crisp and rigorous definition of what is and isn't racist will be largely subjective. If you want to establish objectively that something is (or isn't) racist, you will first need to back up and get everybody to agree on what exactly "race" means. Even Wikipedia, normally a good source of concise definitions, has this to say:

The exact definition of racism is controversial both because there is little scholarly agreement about the meaning of the concept "race", and because there is also little agreement about what does and does not constitute discrimination.

Getting into a protracted discussion of race and racism is probably out of the scope of this thread. Since I don't really see a suitable forum here for discussions and arguments on such "Great Debates", those who have a lot of time and nothing better to do might want to head on over to the Straight Dope and look for the forum heading of that name.

To sum up: Take this thread as largely opinion-based. With my opinion being the correct one, of course I see the ad as calling attention to our differences and the things that divide us, rather than to our commonalities and the things that [should] unite us. That is when I apply the label of "racist".

[A1Str8]

So why do This always have the urge to offend others if they don't like to be offended?

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[chubbychops]

Ohhh good grief, what is becoming of society? I find the ad quite complimentary to the Chinese...what is going on? Let's concentrate on the Thais sig-heiling Nazis, embracing Hitler and having absolutely no understanding of life/history outside of their own bubble.

"You fom Kanata? I knowing Kanata beside Swizerland, yes?" ...............S I G H.

[F4UCorsair]

Uh oh, Thailand is going down the path of political correctness, and that's a shame. I saw nothing wrong with the ad, and I've been married to a Chinese. I'm sure she wouldn't either.

It seems that the business was told that Chinese would be offended rather than the Chinese actually being offended. I haven't read the entire thread, so that may be incorrect. There is always somebody ready to beat a drum for his five minutes of fame, so that's possibly it?

Traditionally it was only the minority group that could be offended, so Caucasians were fair game for everybody else, but now a population of 1.2 billion (give or take a hundred million) is being offended by somebody in a country of less than 70 million?? The dynamics are changing.

I jusr re-read the OP, and it, in part, says, "The image generated mixed reactions online, with mainly foreign commentators expressing disapproval". That says it all!!

Edited February 2, 2014 by F4UCorsair

[tonbridgebrit]

It's time for me to say something.

FOR ME, this is just an ad. How people comprehend it, it's another story.

But, some people's posts , are incredibly rude, stupid, narrow minded, ignorant, and yes, racist.

I'm a Chinese, I state again. And a mainland Chinese too.

Although I hate the communism in China, I love China. From the past , into the future.

For those racist foreigners, I can only say they have ill education about history and politics of other countries.

It's not rare that China was ruled by other races, like the Yuan Dynasty (Mongolians), Qing Dynasty (Mandarin), and the People's Republic of China (once controlled by the communist Russians....)

Look at the things with a long term view, not narrowly for only a few decades, eh?

Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia, are full of Chinese. And in Thailand, most rich people and top management people are from Chinese families. In the international Olympics for Maths, Physics, Chemistry, always the Chinese students win the medals.

Chinese are able to master the western things, like classic music (Lang Lang, Yo Yo Ma, etc) and technology; But how many westerners can master Chinese things like Yi Jing, TCM...... I can write here in English (German, Japanese too), can you write back in Chinese to show your racism ?!?!?!

This is an old race. I like to be a Chinese, for its rich culture and intelligence and wisdom.

Bad luck that China is often destroyed by savage powers (buts still lucky, it did not disappear like other ancient civilisations ......).As Ying and Yang theory goes, situation always changes from time to time. My generation, and the next generations, will change China into a better country, and correct the mistakes done by our stupid and brutal ex-generations.

And how about you, racist farangs? You are lying on the achievements from your great-great-granapa generations and think you are the number one. Fine, keep dreaming.

This is shameful post. You claim to abhor racist "farangs" and yet do you very best to articulate your racist views towards foreigners.

"Chinese are able to master western things but how many westerners can master Chinese things?"

"stupid, narrow minded, ignorant"

"lying on achievements from you great-great grandpa"

It seems you have an insecurity about your own countries standing in the world and need to defend it unnecessarily.

Disgusting, completely disgusting.

I for one have worked in China for many years. There are things I don't like, things I do, this is normal I guess for anyone living away from home. I am happy that China is growing in wealth along with other developing countries and I hope one day that wealth benefits everyone.

There are undesirable, racist people from every country, but it takes an ignorant person to generalize on a nation based on statements of ignorance. You are the worst kind of ambassador for your country, you listen to poor opinions and rather then just ignore the remarks you attack back in kind.

I am sure that it will surprise you to know that most people do not think of Chinese or other people the way you think they do. Thankfully most people will view your post as ignorance and shrug it off.

Westen people and Chinese people learn from each other, Chinese people are inventive and creative people for sure but so are Westerners,, computers and tablets for example are modern day things that changed the world today and were not invented by our grandfathers. Today western companies collaborate with Chinese companies for manufacturing that benefits both sides.

Do you not see how the collaboration between Western countries and China have benftted china over the last few decades? If all Westerners had your views these collaborations would never happen.

As Chinese are now investing in the West these collaborations will benefit everyone. It's a good thing you are not part of Chinese decision making process or your country would be stuck in poverty.

Yes, let's talk about the Chinese in Thailand !

"And in Thailand, most rich people and top management people are from Chinese families. In the international Olympics for Maths, Physics, Chemistry, always the Chinese students win the medals."

Right, the Chinese in Thailand. The vast bulk of the Chinese in Thailand are not people who were born in China, they're actually people with (of) Chinese ancestry. I think a lot of them are such that, their grand-parents and parents were born in Thailand. These so-called Chinese-Thais, I find the vast bulk of them don't actually go around saying loudly that they are Chinese, but they will say about their ancestry if you ask them (sometimes, you need to ask a few times !). Basically, they regard themselves to be more Thai than Chinese.

And yes, it appears to be that most rich people in Thailand are Chinese-Thais. And most of us know that Ying Luk and Abhisit are Chinese-Thais too. Did most people notice Suthep wearing a Chinese-style big shirt, the day before Chinese New Year ? Suthep was aknowledging Chinese New Year, is he a Chinese-Thai, or was he just trying to reach out to the Chinese-Thais ?

Do the Chinese-Thais regard themselves as Chinese ? Or do they see themselves as Thais who have Chinese ancestry ? Do we regard Chinese-Thais as Chinese ?

What about Americans ? Do they regard themselves as Europeans ? Do they regard themselves as Americans who have European ancestry ? Do we regard Americans (so-called 'white' Americans) as Americans with European ancestry ? Sorry, I'm trying to be funny !

Do Chinese regard it to be offensive if people walk up to them, and pull the skin behind their eyes back ?

Hey, maybe somebody should do it, to find out ?

Basically, there's a difference between saying "Look, who gives a ____ about a bunch of Chinese getting upset over this crap, it's harmless fun, we don't think it's offensive, they'ill just have to take it" and saying "These people form a big part of the market, the last thing we want to do is antagonise them when we're hoping they're going to buy whatever goods". Is it wrong to have a view which is "It doesn't matter about selling the product, if you are doing something that offends people, well, you should stop".

I'ill end by saying that I know a British bloke who took his Thai lady back home to England. Previously, he'd never really thought about racist behaviour. But he certainly was livid (pretty angry), when walking around the town-centre, a couple of young blokes walked up to him and his lady (his wife), and one of the young blokes pulled back the skin behind both his eyes, and the young man then put his hands together and did a 'wai' !

[susanschwaiger]

You choose what you like to read from my post. And you add your illusion. You don't need to represent others' opinion. I also don't represent other Chinese. Just my personal view.

From where you can see I am "racist " to westerners ? Can't I just list the facts?!?!?!? I'm not annoyed when you say SOME Chinese have slant eyes and SOME are extremely rude and vulgar and stupid. It is a solid fact.

Oh, you lived in China for one year. Does it matter ? I know many who lived there for over 10 years but still don't know much about China and its people. Same as many poor Chinese smuggled in to the west and live there for decades but still know little about the local society.

Communism ruined China for many generations and it has serious problems now. Takes time to cure. But this is NO excuse for SOME your guys to be racists against China.

Your post is shameful and stubborn and stiff.

Edited February 2, 2014 by susanschwaiger

[susanschwaiger]

Reply to THAKKAR. No defence, i don't feel i need to defend myself against the PC mob, attack yes. My vitriol, as you describe it, wasn't directed against the Chinese but against the ultra-liberal people like yourself which is turning parts of my country into something like a suburb of Bangladesh.

A good friend of mine (Chinese) who i met in the design department of a firm in Germany where i once worked invited me to his home in China. I stayed 3 weeks ( i fancied his sister like mad) It was OK (they were/are Hi-So's ) What i disliked was having to wipe of/brush of the dried phlegm from my trouser bottoms and shoes every evening, i was always scared of getting TB.

The Chinese don't need defending, they feel themselves superior to anything and everything on Gods earth.

If you only meet lousy Chinese and go to lousy places in China, it is your own luck.

"The Chinese don't need defending, they feel themselves superior to anything and everything on Gods earth."---- this was written by YOURSELF.

[partington]

take a look at the post between your quote and my quote (pasted below). well explained by partington. i disagree with nothing in your reply. You do not however, make any case as to why this is racist.

As the concept of race is largely (perhaps entirely) a social construct, it follows that a crisp and rigorous definition of what is and isn't racist will be largely subjective. If you want to establish objectively that something is (or isn't) racist, you will first need to back up and get everybody to agree on what exactly "race" means. Even Wikipedia, normally a good source of concise definitions, has this to say:

The exact definition of racism is controversial both because there is little scholarly agreement about the meaning of the concept "race", and because there is also little agreement about what does and does not constitute discrimination.

Getting into a protracted discussion of race and racism is probably out of the scope of this thread. Since I don't really see a suitable forum here for discussions and arguments on such "Great Debates", those who have a lot of time and nothing better to do might want to head on over to the Straight Dope and look for the forum heading of that name.

To sum up: Take this thread as largely opinion-based. With my opinion being the correct one, of course I see the ad as calling attention to our differences and the things that divide us, rather than to our commonalities and the things that [should] unite us. That is when I apply the label of "racist".

I can't agree with this. The concept of race does not need a scientific definition to be discussed in real life common sense language. It is just the discussion of physical cosmetic difference that allow you to visually distinguish people of different ethnicities.

To quote an earlier post of mine, if you can tell a Han Chinese person from an Australian aborigine, then you can discuss it. If you can't, you can't. That is all the definition a conversational reference to race needs, outside an academic journal.

While I fully understand that racism is a harmful and reprehensible aspect of society, the way to deal with it can never be a shame-faced denial that cosmetic physical differences exist between many ethnic groups.

In my view you are perilously close to the absurd position of trying to condemn racism (a condemnation I agree with 100%, and would try to promote in every aspect of life) by trying to deny common sense observable facts - that people look different. Forgive me if I am misunderstanding, but it almost sounds like you are saying openly recognising these differences is bad in itself, so lets not mention them, and so they may become less noticeable. This is unsustainable and lays people with this view open to ridicule on common sense grounds.

My view again is: these difference are vibrant , striking and enriching. They likely evolved in part as ways for human groups to recognise and find each other attractive, like the long tails of birds of paradise. Drawing attention to these visual qualities and celebrating them as beautiful with approval and enthusiasm is the way to do it!

[Thai at Heart]

It's time for me to say something.

FOR ME, this is just an ad. How people comprehend it, it's another story.

But, some people's posts , are incredibly rude, stupid, narrow minded, ignorant, and yes, racist.

I'm a Chinese, I state again. And a mainland Chinese too.

Although I hate the communism in China, I love China. From the past , into the future.

For those racist foreigners, I can only say they have ill education about history and politics of other countries.

It's not rare that China was ruled by other races, like the Yuan Dynasty (Mongolians), Qing Dynasty (Mandarin), and the People's Republic of China (once controlled by the communist Russians....)

Look at the things with a long term view, not narrowly for only a few decades, eh?

Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia, are full of Chinese. And in Thailand, most rich people and top management people are from Chinese families. In the international Olympics for Maths, Physics, Chemistry, always the Chinese students win the medals.

Chinese are able to master the western things, like classic music (Lang Lang, Yo Yo Ma, etc) and technology; But how many westerners can master Chinese things like Yi Jing, TCM...... I can write here in English (German, Japanese too), can you write back in Chinese to show your racism ?!?!?!

This is an old race. I like to be a Chinese, for its rich culture and intelligence and wisdom.

Bad luck that China is often destroyed by savage powers (buts still lucky, it did not disappear like other ancient civilisations ......).As Ying and Yang theory goes, situation always changes from time to time. My generation, and the next generations, will change China into a better country, and correct the mistakes done by our stupid and brutal ex-generations.

And how about you, racist farangs? You are lying on the achievements from your great-great-granapa generations and think you are the number one. Fine, keep dreaming.

Nice rant.

Do you think the advert was made by a foreigner?

[attrayant]

In my view you are perilously close to the absurd position of trying to condemn racism [...] by trying to deny common sense observable facts - that people look different.

I guess I wasn't clear. I won't disagree that people look different. What I disagree with is the idea that these differences in appearance can be consistently - and reliably - used as a definitive guide as to which side of a geographic line somebody was born on. I further disagree with making assumptions of character and worth (as the ad in the OP does) based on these highly variable appearances.

[T]hese difference are vibrant , striking and enriching. They likely evolved in part as ways for human groups to recognise and find each other attractive, like the long tails of birds of paradise. Drawing attention to these visual qualities and celebrating them as beautiful with approval and enthusiasm is the way to do it!

Agree with this also, I do. I, myself, have certain preferences in whom I find attractive based on their apparent ethnicity. That doesn't make me racist. It would make me racist if I made public advertisements promoting my opinions as somehow superior to yours, or (if I were a legislator) drafted public policies based on these preferences.

The concept of race does not need a scientific definition to be discussed in real life common sense language.

Now this I disagree with. What happens when we're confronted with somebody who (for example) has Asian features but is, in fact, American or Canadian or Peruvian? There is a subset of the Peruvian people that are called Gringuitos - they are blonde-haired and blue-eyed - sometimes red-haired and freckled. But they are no less Peruvian than the dark-haired and dark skinned people most of us envision when we think of Peruvians. But put a Gringuito next to your garden variety Peruvian and you see where we start to have problems with using physical appearances to classify people.

[tonbridgebrit]

You choose what you like to read from my post. And you add your illusion. You don't need to represent others' opinion. I also don't represent other Chinese. Just my personal view.

From where you can see I am "racist " to westerners ? Can't I just list the facts?!?!?!? I'm not annoyed when you say SOME Chinese have slant eyes and SOME are extremely rude and vulgar and stupid. It is a solid fact.

Oh, you lived in China for one year. Does it matter ? I know many who lived there for over 10 years but still don't know much about China and its people. Same as many poor Chinese smuggled in to the west and live there for decades but still know little about the local society.

Communism ruined China for many generations and it has serious problems now. Takes time to cure. But this is NO excuse for SOME your guys to be racists against China.

Your post is shameful and stubborn and stiff.

"Oh, you lived in China for one year. Does it matter ? I know many who lived there for over 10 years but still don't know much about China and its people." Brilliant, absolutely brilliant, you have made my stomach hurt with laughter !!

Yes, I myself know 'foreigners' who have lived in Thailand for almost ten years. And yes, some of these people appear to know very little about Thailand. And every time they open their mouths, they are saying something negative or bad about Thailand and Thai people.

Comments like "they're so dumb, they will vote for a party that's destroying their nation", "they look at America, and they're only interested in crap American films and hip-hop music", "Britain can teach Thais so much, but most Thais just want to know about the football", "their knowledge of the African continent is even less than what Americans know", "they watch crap soap-operas on television, and some of them even try to use their religion to give them good luck in winning the lottery", and the brilliant "they are so useless at speaking English, they're worst than people back home trying to speak foreign languages" !!!

I'm pretty sure most of us who know people who have been here for ten years, will know that some of those foreigners do say such things !

For me, when I'm back home, I never say or imply "Look, I've lived in Thailand for years, I know about Thais, I know about Thailand".

[kamahele]

In my home country of the USA, I would see this ad as offensive. In Thailand however, I do not. Completely different culture and one with a lot of Chinese influence.

[susanschwaiger]

Weekend is soon over. Another terribly busy week ahead. I won't have time to read and "defend" here......

Before I leave this post, I would like to say to some of the guys who posted nasty about China: you can think and talk whatever you like, but please don't pretend you "know " about China. It's painful to act, even more painful to watch.

Wish you all a nice week ahead

[Thai at Heart]

Weekend is soon over. Another terribly busy week ahead. I won't have time to read and "defend" here......

Before I leave this post, I would like to say to some of the guys who posted nasty about China: you can think and talk whatever you like, but please don't pretend you "know " about China. It's painful to act, even more painful to watch.

Wish you all a nice week ahead

Well I worked there on and off for 5 years.

Good people, but the do spit a lot, although its getting better.

[partington]

The concept of race does not need a scientific definition to be discussed in real life common sense language.

Now this I disagree with. What happens when we're confronted with somebody who (for example) has Asian features but is, in fact, American or Canadian or Peruvian? There is a subset of the Peruvian people that are called Gringuitos - they are blonde-haired and blue-eyed - sometimes red-haired and freckled. But they are no less Peruvian than the dark-haired and dark skinned people most of us envision when we think of Peruvians. But put a Gringuito next to your garden variety Peruvian and you see where we start to have problems with using physical appearances to classify people.

I like your post, and I don't want to go on about this obsessively, but by missing out my next line you kind of obscured the point I was trying to make about the everyday use of racial descriptions .

I said:

It is just the discussion of physical cosmetic difference that allow you to visually distinguish people of different ethnicities

I didn't mean or intend to imply that you could "classify" people racially, in the sense of accurately and unambiguously defining their geographic origin by visual examination. I accept you are completely right that you can't in fact do this.

I meant that physical cosmetic differences allow you to tell people of different origins apart, and group them in a general way, that is still useful enough to use in common conversation.

You have made my point for me by asking "what happens when we're confronted with somebody who has Asian features but is in fact American, Canadian, or Peruvian?"

Both you and I and everyone reading knows what you mean by Asian features in this sentence, and therefore you have used this racial description in the way that I am describing.

It does not matter if the person is "really" Asian - this is not a scientific discussion where we try to establish whether race is an accurate classification system. They simply look Asian; even if they are not, that comment can be understood, and the point is made.

[axact]

here we go - Let's face it - since Dr. Seri said on stage and on TV (Blue Sky that is) that yellow skinned people are smarter than white skinned people there is a huge demand now not only for "yellowing" products - but now white women in Thailand are "pulling there eyes" in adds to look Asian because they want to be seen as smart!

There is also another great opportunity for "medical tourism" in Thailand. "Asian eye surgery" available in Hazelnut, Ocean Blue and Emerald Green - kind of like a facelift just a bit higher up.

We call it the "Smart Eyes" look or something?

.

I think you could be on to something here !

Contrary the media opinion, I think it is a rather clever ad, portraying the Chinese to be superior to non Asian races. The idea of Crixforever could become a reality as China becomes number one powerhouse of the world and some fashion victims will probably want to emulate them !

Whatever the outcome the Mall Management company certainly got its moneys worth as they are now known worldwide

[Equalizer]

You are about as far out as Pluto on your thinking. The Asian market use Western models for one! Number 2 who told you Asian eyes are famously beautiful? considered by many!!! like who said this?, people in the west? I have just picked out your quotes below that proves you are a self opinionated, and more to the point a self righteous thinker. The advert is clever and could be seen as offensive to western people, if your head is up your ass of course!!!!

West has used white actors to play historical characters of other races.

Asian women's eyes are famously beautiful, considered by many to be the prettiest eyes of all

The model in the photo just looks ugly when she stretches her face like that.

It bears no similarity to the beauty of Asian eyes at all

Here's your toys back. Please try to keep them in the pram in future. If you keep throwing them around, you'll have somebody's eye out. No pun intended.

Well stop talking out of the crack of your arse then.

[nisakiman]

In my view you are perilously close to the absurd position of trying to condemn racism [...] by trying to deny common sense observable facts - that people look different.

I guess I wasn't clear. I won't disagree that people look different. What I disagree with is the idea that these differences in appearance can be consistently - and reliably - used as a definitive guide as to which side of a geographic line somebody was born on. I further disagree with making assumptions of character and worth (as the ad in the OP does) based on these highly variable appearances.

I don't think there was any assumption of character or worth insinuated in the ad. To me, it was a bit of tongue in cheek humour, and anyone taking offence has a serious humour deficit problem.

As I've said already in my previous posts on this thread, I very much doubt if any Chinese (or part Chinese) thought twice about it. If the boot were on the other foot (as it often is in western advertising, as it happens), and the English / Americans are being caricatured (bowler hat, pinstripe suit, Eton accent and stupid, or stetson and cowboy boots, unintelligible Texan drawl and stupid), do you take offense? Because if you do, I feel sorry for you.

[thailand49]

I understand fully what you are saying. In times of political correctness if goes overboard at times. I will correct you first, I'm Chinese born and raised in the States and I'm open and liberal and I enjoy a good ribbing take it as I can dish it out even more! But I did have second doubts because of the day and age we are living in today.

Not to take away your own experience growing up etc.. but there is a huge difference in using the comparison of a Texan draw etc.. if I'm wrong that just shows you as you said the boot being on the other foot?

I know what is like growing up walking miles to school because all I had was lunch money and not enough for the bus. I know what it is like having to get to school not going directly instead around and over the hill because the white guys were waiting for us to take our money. Calling us chink chong chinamen and making the same eye gesture go back to where you came from etc...

If this was a average guy like you and me and it was a harmless slip but the people who approve this ad and produced it are educated people and to me in the 21st century that is where I draw the sometimes and agree to disagree.

[easybullet3]

Thais are oblivious to international racial, discriminatory and/or religious sensitivities. The article mentions but a few Thai transgressions. Conspicuous by its absence are the numerous and pervasive incidents of Nazi and swastika cult and costuming in Thailand, the Hitler store, the children dressed as Nazis..etc.

in all fairness; kinds in the western world might go to a fancy dress party as a cowboy or soldier (which is also another image of a killer).

since hitler had not much impact on the thai people, they probably just view him as an old bad (and famous) leader.

didnt starlin kill about 4 times more people than hitler?

and didnt the old british monarchs kill even more than that (under the guise of the Commonwealth)

so,, dressing up as queen victoria could potentially be even worse than dressing up as hitler!!! (if you take into account how many were killed under their rule).

[Thai at Heart]

here we go - Let's face it - since Dr. Seri said on stage and on TV (Blue Sky that is) that yellow skinned people are smarter than white skinned people there is a huge demand now not only for "yellowing" products - but now white women in Thailand are "pulling there eyes" in adds to look Asian because they want to be seen as smart!

There is also another great opportunity for "medical tourism" in Thailand. "Asian eye surgery" available in Hazelnut, Ocean Blue and Emerald Green - kind of like a facelift just a bit higher up.

We call it the "Smart Eyes" look or something?

.

I think you could be on to something here !

Contrary the media opinion, I think it is a rather clever ad, portraying the Chinese to be superior to non Asian races. The idea of Crixforever could become a reality as China becomes number one powerhouse of the world and some fashion victims will probably want to emulate them !

Whatever the outcome the Mall Management company certainly got its moneys worth as they are now known worldwide

On a per capita level, China has decades to go to approach the levels of wealth of the west.

With they become of greater global influence, yes. Are they destined to become the dominant power in the world.

Ask again in 50 years. Where was china in 1964? A lot can change.

[tonbridgebrit]

here we go - Let's face it - since Dr. Seri said on stage and on TV (Blue Sky that is) that yellow skinned people are smarter than white skinned people there is a huge demand now not only for "yellowing" products - but now white women in Thailand are "pulling there eyes" in adds to look Asian because they want to be seen as smart!

There is also another great opportunity for "medical tourism" in Thailand. "Asian eye surgery" available in Hazelnut, Ocean Blue and Emerald Green - kind of like a facelift just a bit higher up.

We call it the "Smart Eyes" look or something?

.

I think you could be on to something here !

Contrary the media opinion, I think it is a rather clever ad, portraying the Chinese to be superior to non Asian races. The idea of Crixforever could become a reality as China becomes number one powerhouse of the world and some fashion victims will probably want to emulate them !

Whatever the outcome the Mall Management company certainly got its moneys worth as they are now known worldwide

On a per capita level, China has decades to go to approach the levels of wealth of the west.

With they become of greater global influence, yes. Are they destined to become the dominant power in the world.

Ask again in 50 years. Where was china in 1964? A lot can change.

Yes, on a per capita basis, China has decades to go before it approaches the wealth levels of the West.

However, the theory goes that they don't need to have a GDP/GNP per capita that is as great as the USA or Europe to be a dominant power.

The size of the population is huge, and pretty soon, companies like Adidas, Levi Straus, BMW, Mercedes Benz, Nokia, Samsung, etc, pretty soon, these companies will regard China as a bigger market than Western Europe. I think it already is the case that most 'Asian' countries recieve more tourists from China than any other country. And what about all that talk about how China is building up a giant trade surplus with the USA and the EU ?

Basically, China is able to export cheap manufactured goods to America and Europe, but it seems like China's imports are far smaller. When will the size of China's economy equal America's economy ? When will China sit alongside America as one of the two biggest economic powers ? It might be a lot less than fifty years !

[wileycoyote]

Oh Dear,better luck next year !