PDRC leader Suthep warns banks against rice loans to government

[Bluespunk]

Erm, I just read the article and it backs up everything I said about what the EC did and did not say/do. It reinforces what I said happened.

Payment was not made to the farmers because because the money was not there. The scheme has failed. PT has betrayed the farmers. Thailand's position as the worlds leading exporter of rice has been lost. Nothing good has come from this scheme, it was always doomed to fail because it was so economically inept. PT alone are to blame for this.

Edited February 15, 2014 by Bluespunk

[casualbiker]

The EC did not block a loan. They told PT it was illegal to raise a loan as a caretaker govt. told them they could raise a loan if they chose to, but any legal action would be on PT not the EC.

The farmers have not been paid since October. It is PT and PT alone who are to blame for this non payment.

There you go with your fairy tales again,

The care taker government can apply for a loan, The EC has to approve or reject the loan, the right to approve a loan is given to the EC when a caretaker government ask for a loan approval.

The PTP must take responsibility for not paying the farmers prior to them becoming a care taker government, but since they became a caretaker government the only agency that can approve a loan is the EC., who up to this point the EC has refused to do!

In this morning BP newspaper there was an announcement the Government received a loan for 17 billion baht, which is part of 20 billion in loans. that was approved by the Board on January 8,, the "process of finalizing the loan and transferring the funds. however. was disrupted by anti-government protesters"

Documents that the protesters have held up the loans for over a month.

The farmers will began receiving payments from the 17 billion baht next Monday!

Cheers

There you go again with your blinkered vision again.

The EC explained the law to PT and told them what the law said they could do. They told them that it was illegal to create a debt as a caretaker govt that the next govt would be responsible for.

Payment was due in October. No one has disrupted payment, PT has repeatedly failed to meet payment dates because they do not have the money to do so. This is because their inept rice scheme is a colossal failure. They have betrayed their core support.

As for the money raised, can anyone remind me how much PT owe the farmers at present? Is 17 billion enough?

Again your blind mans vision.

Of course you will deny the BP article titled "EC rejects governments request for loans to pay farmers" dated 1-22-2014, the EC made a unanimous decision 5-0 that they lacked the authority to approve a loan.

PTP states the budget was approved by the cabinet on September 3, 2013, the payment was held up because the Democrat asked for the budget to be reviewed and after the review resigned en mass forcing the dissolution, the 130 billion baht has ready been allocated in the 2013-2014 budget and approved by the cabinet last September. There is no new program that would obligate the next government.

The 17 billion was the first loan it had approved, they are pressing forward with the loans because the money has already been allocated and approved prior to the governments care taker status.

Cheers

Kiko. We are talking about funding for the 2012-2013 crop so the 2013 budget. Not the 2013-2014 crop. Please provide a link to this report that the 130 billion for the 2013 crop is from the 2014 budget. Thanks

Also if the government actually have the money allocated. Why don't - didn't they pay the farmers?

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[BlueNoseCodger]

Maybe somone with more knowledge tham me may fill in the blanks.

If there was a run on the banks of people withdrawing money.

Would this not end up in a total collapse of the banks similar to Cyprus.

What effect would this have and what measures would they have in place

to stop this.

1) Thai's taking money from one bank and sticking it in another? No problem. BOT can always bail any bank out from the strength of the other banks.

2) Foreign disinvestment over worries of the dinosaurs returning? Big problem, baht falls, BOT strength reduced. Since the baht free floats it will drop, that in turn means foreign debts are more expensive to service. In the long run, it will make us less wealthy as our money flows out abroad in the form of interest.

For Cyprus, they use the Euro so 2) is as easy as 1). If you're going to move money from Cyprus bank, it is as easy to send it to Deutsch Bank Frankfurt. But far more difficult for Cyprus to then be bailed out by Germany as its not the same country and European Central Bank is barred from bailing out countries by Maastricht treaty.

Portugal (most recent government Euro bond) 10year bond rate just came in at 5.112 percent, Thailands is lower (=safer) at 3.88. The second half of the bond that Suthep scuppered in November was successfully sold in mid January. Further bonds can't be issued till government is in power, the mid January one could only be issued because it was approved before dissolution and so couldn't be blocked by EC.

Really, the future is suprisingly good for Thailand, just as long as the dinosaurs stay in the jurassic era.

[kikoman]

I just reread the article and nothing has changed Still states "EC rejects government reguest for loan to pay farmers "

BP newspaper dated 1-22-2014.

Bi-focal do wonders!

Cheers

[Bluespunk]

I just reread the article and nothing has changed Still states "EC rejects government reguest for loan to pay farmers "

BP newspaper dated 1-22-2014.

Bi-focal do wonders!

Cheers

Only when used properly.

Read the whole thing not just the headline!!

Edited February 15, 2014 by Bluespunk

[BlueNoseCodger]

Another farmer commits suicide.

Perhaps it's time for Suthep to stop blocking the banks, and EC to finish its elections, or at least to stop blocking government bond issues!

Edited February 16, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[Bluespunk]

Another farmer commits suicide.

Perhaps it's time for Suthep to stop blocking the banks, and EC to finish its elections, or at least to stop blocking government bond issues!

October. Key word here. October.

[BlueNoseCodger]

Another farmer commits suicide.

Perhaps it's time for Suthep to stop blocking the banks, and EC to finish its elections, or at least to stop blocking government bond issues!

October. Key word here. October.

October? From this article:

January 9: A 59-year-old male farmer in Phichit's Muang district (fatal shock and high-blood pressure);

January 26: A 60-year-old male farmer in Roi Et's Muang district (hanging);

January 27: A 46-year-old male farmer in Si Sa Ket's Khukhan district (hanging);

January 28: A 43-year-old male worker in Buri Ram's Nong Hong district (hanging);

February 7: An 81-year-old female farmer in Kamphaeng Phet's Muang district (fatal shock and heart failure);

February 10: A 38-year-old female farmer in Sukhothai's Kong Krailat district (hanging);

February 11: A 42-year-old female farmer in Kamphaeng Phet's Klong Lan district (hanging);

February 12: A 42-year-old male farmer in Chachoengsao's Ratchasan district (drank pesticide).

As I said, perhaps it's time for Suthep to stop blocking the banks, and for EC to finish the elections, or at least to stop blocking government bond issues!

[Bluespunk]

Another farmer commits suicide.

Perhaps it's time for Suthep to stop blocking the banks, and EC to finish its elections, or at least to stop blocking government bond issues!

October. Key word here. October.

October? From this article:

January 9: A 59-year-old male farmer in Phichit's Muang district (fatal shock and high-blood pressure);

January 26: A 60-year-old male farmer in Roi Et's Muang district (hanging);

January 27: A 46-year-old male farmer in Si Sa Ket's Khukhan district (hanging);

January 28: A 43-year-old male worker in Buri Ram's Nong Hong district (hanging);

February 7: An 81-year-old female farmer in Kamphaeng Phet's Muang district (fatal shock and heart failure);

February 10: A 38-year-old female farmer in Sukhothai's Kong Krailat district (hanging);

February 11: A 42-year-old female farmer in Kamphaeng Phet's Klong Lan district (hanging);

February 12: A 42-year-old male farmer in Chachoengsao's Ratchasan district (drank pesticide).

As I said, perhaps it's time for Suthep to stop blocking the banks, and for EC to finish the elections, or at least to stop blocking government bond issues!

All not paid since October. All betrayed by PT. All promised payment month after month after month. All those promises broken. Lies, deceit and betrayal: the true legacy of this inept scheme. PT alone are responsible. No one else. PT alone.

[BlueNoseCodger]

Another farmer commits suicide.

Perhaps it's time for Suthep to stop blocking the banks, and EC to finish its elections, or at least to stop blocking government bond issues!

October. Key word here. October.

October? From this article:

January 9: A 59-year-old male farmer in Phichit's Muang district (fatal shock and high-blood pressure);

January 26: A 60-year-old male farmer in Roi Et's Muang district (hanging);

January 27: A 46-year-old male farmer in Si Sa Ket's Khukhan district (hanging);

January 28: A 43-year-old male worker in Buri Ram's Nong Hong district (hanging);

February 7: An 81-year-old female farmer in Kamphaeng Phet's Muang district (fatal shock and heart failure);

February 10: A 38-year-old female farmer in Sukhothai's Kong Krailat district (hanging);

February 11: A 42-year-old female farmer in Kamphaeng Phet's Klong Lan district (hanging);

February 12: A 42-year-old male farmer in Chachoengsao's Ratchasan district (drank pesticide).

As I said, perhaps it's time for Suthep to stop blocking the banks, and for EC to finish the elections, or at least to stop blocking government bond issues!

All not paid since October. All betrayed by PT. All promised payment month after month after month. All those promises broken. Lies, deceit and betrayal: the true legacy of this inept scheme. PT alone are responsible. No one else. PT alone.

Yet if Suthep hadn't scuppered the mid November bond issue with his mob they would be alive. And if EC hadn't blocked the bonds they would be alive, and if Suthep hadn't blocked the bank loans they would be alive.

[Melyn]

Another farmer commits suicide.

Perhaps it's time for Suthep to stop blocking the banks, and EC to finish its elections, or at least to stop blocking government bond issues!

October. Key word here. October.

October? From this article:

January 9: A 59-year-old male farmer in Phichit's Muang district (fatal shock and high-blood pressure);

January 26: A 60-year-old male farmer in Roi Et's Muang district (hanging);

January 27: A 46-year-old male farmer in Si Sa Ket's Khukhan district (hanging);

January 28: A 43-year-old male worker in Buri Ram's Nong Hong district (hanging);

February 7: An 81-year-old female farmer in Kamphaeng Phet's Muang district (fatal shock and heart failure);

February 10: A 38-year-old female farmer in Sukhothai's Kong Krailat district (hanging);

February 11: A 42-year-old female farmer in Kamphaeng Phet's Klong Lan district (hanging);

February 12: A 42-year-old male farmer in Chachoengsao's Ratchasan district (drank pesticide).

As I said, perhaps it's time for Suthep to stop blocking the banks, and for EC to finish the elections, or at least to stop blocking government bond issues!

So, please explain exactly how Suthep is blocking the banks from doing anything

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Bluespunk]

@ bluenosecodger.

Nothing to do with anyone else but PT. The scheme has failed. The farmers betrayed. Rice industry ruined. That is their true legacy

Edited February 16, 2014 by Bluespunk

[Bluespunk]

@gweiloman

You said to BNC about me

I admire your patience in arguing with a nincompoop.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

My response

Are you talking about me?

Edited February 16, 2014 by Bluespunk

[Gweiloman]

@gweiloman

You said to BNC about me

I admire your patience in arguing with a nincompoop.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

My response

Oh dear, has it come to childish and whining insults.

That last word you chose to insult me with is a clear indication that you have lost the argument over the rice scheme and its catastrophic failure and the misery it has brought for farmers.

PT has betrayed the farmers.

No, not childish and whining insults. You keep stressing about October. October has come and gone. Get over it. What is necessary and important now is to pay the farmers. Arguing to your last breath about Oct is completely missing the point.

No one denies that the scheme is a disaster. No one denies that the farmers should not have been paid in October. But for most of the farmers, it is not yet the end of the world for them. But it's people like you who are only interested in playing the blame game that will cause more to take their lives out of sheer desperation.

Lets look for a solution now as to how to help the farmers.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Bluespunk]

@gweiloman

You said to BNC about me

I admire your patience in arguing with a nincompoop.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

My response

Oh dear, has it come to childish and whining insults.

That last word you chose to insult me with is a clear indication that you have lost the argument over the rice scheme and its catastrophic failure and the misery it has brought for farmers.

PT has betrayed the farmers.

No, not childish and whining insults. You keep stressing about October. October has come and gone. Get over it. What is necessary and important now is to pay the farmers. Arguing to your last breath about Oct is completely missing the point.

No one denies that the scheme is a disaster. No one denies that the farmers should not have been paid in October. But for most of the farmers, it is not yet the end of the world for them. But it's people like you who are only interested in playing the blame game that will cause more to take their lives out of sheer desperation.

Lets look for a solution now as to how to help the farmers.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I'm all for paying the farmers what they are owed.

I have no interest in blame games only the truth.

I am not going to let revisionist posts trying to put the blame for this disaster on anyone else but PT to pass.

Don't use derogatory terms towards me please. It is unnecessary.

Edited February 16, 2014 by Bluespunk

[Kan Win]

tragickingdom, on 03 Feb 2014 - 17:44, said:tragickingdom, on 03 Feb 2014 - 17:44, said:

Take out this thug. Or just cut all of the subsidies given to Southern Rubber tappers.

That is what started this.

The Rubber Road Blockages. When that did not work, the rest is history.

Lets pay the Rice Farmers, Please Election Comission as you do have the POWER to make it happen, the Gov. Pledge to buy the Rice.

and They did NOT Pledge to buy Suthep's "Rubber Stock" (That is what started all of this) btw

Get real folks, The Dems and Suthep were in power to make these Reforms that now they are asking for, but they did what they always, do, nothing. Why is that?

Just a little bump

[Cricketnut]

I don't know where the money should come from but I would like to see the farmers paid ASAP. They have worked hard to provide us with food and deserve to be rewarded for there efforts.

Yes Suthep go and starve the hand that feeds you. Moron.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Cricketnut]

@ bluenosecodger.

Nothing to do with anyone else but PT. The scheme has failed. The farmers betrayed. Rice industry ruined. That is their true legacy

Bluesplunk the people need to be paid no matter the failed scheme, has not other Western countries made similar and more tragic blunders in Parliament? Surely so. I respect your posts, but at least think of the average farmer and their families. Who cares, pay them the money they need! On this occasion only you let down you're own morality in talking such gibberish. Its not the point. Other posters may not dare to contradict you on this matter. I for one will and I consider this post of yours to be idiotic. We all know the scheme was failed from the start, the IMF warned so. Reply if thy wish, but on this note people are hungry, starving, cold and killing themselves. Shameful post on this one occasion. Cricketnut.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[MrSlatersParrot]

So the only argument is as to whether the farmers should be subsidized by their government to grow rice, rubber, palm oil, whatever or just allow market forces to dictate the price.

Should market forces be allowed to prevail with no protection for the farmers how would Suthep's rubber farmer protestors from the deep south currently in Bangkok feel if instead of the demanded 120 baht per kilo (90 baht offered to farmers throughout the kingdom) they would now only be entitled to the current 60 baht per kilo?

If farming were left solely to market forces subsistence farming would continue but many farmers would soon go out of business and you would see the consequences further down the line of food shortages.

The agrarian economy has to be planned to some degree.

France is the same size as Thailand with similar population and similar lack of natural recourses.

Ask the french farmers?

[casualbiker]

So the only argument is as to whether the farmers should be subsidized by their government to grow rice, rubber, palm oil, whatever or just allow market forces to dictate the price.

Should market forces be allowed to prevail with no protection for the farmers how would Suthep's rubber farmer protestors from the deep south currently in Bangkok feel if instead of the demanded 120 baht per kilo (90 baht offered to farmers throughout the kingdom) they would now only be entitled to the current 60 baht per kilo?

If farming were left solely to market forces subsistence farming would continue but many farmers would soon go out of business and you would see the consequences further down the line of food shortages.

The agrarian economy has to be planned to some degree.

France is the same size as Thailand with similar population and similar lack of natural recourses.

Ask the french farmers?

No. The argument has always been how to devise the BEST way to give a decent payment for product for vitally important crops. This scheme failed miserable . do you agree?

Vietnam is a poor country with poor farmers yet as far as i understand THEY are making changes/savings in the actual producing of the rice, increasing productivity (but not reducing quality)

Extending and improving cooperatives, Decreasing costs. these things help business around the world, they can help farmers.

[rubl]

So the only argument is as to whether the farmers should be subsidized by their government to grow rice, rubber, palm oil, whatever or just allow market forces to dictate the price.

Should market forces be allowed to prevail with no protection for the farmers how would Suthep's rubber farmer protestors from the deep south currently in Bangkok feel if instead of the demanded 120 baht per kilo (90 baht offered to farmers throughout the kingdom) they would now only be entitled to the current 60 baht per kilo?

If farming were left solely to market forces subsistence farming would continue but many farmers would soon go out of business and you would see the consequences further down the line of food shortages.

The agrarian economy has to be planned to some degree.

France is the same size as Thailand with similar population and similar lack of natural recourses.

Ask the french farmers?

There's another, newer topic in which it is described that Suthep has changed on this subject. He stated a week or so ago to no object to banks helping the government with loans if they so want.

As such your post here and now seems somewhat misplaced

[3NUMBAS]

the farmers are starving .

well let them eat cake.

result...........many heads got the chop

[flashysite]

Farmers dont get paid, he barks. Farmers get paid he also barks. Soi dogs are dangerous. He's evil, and he got mental problems.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[sirineou]

Another farmer commits suicide.

Perhaps it's time for Suthep to stop blocking the banks, and EC to finish its elections, or at least to stop blocking government bond issues!

October. Key word here. October.

October? From this article:

January 9: A 59-year-old male farmer in Phichit's Muang district (fatal shock and high-blood pressure);

January 26: A 60-year-old male farmer in Roi Et's Muang district (hanging);

January 27: A 46-year-old male farmer in Si Sa Ket's Khukhan district (hanging);

January 28: A 43-year-old male worker in Buri Ram's Nong Hong district (hanging);

February 7: An 81-year-old female farmer in Kamphaeng Phet's Muang district (fatal shock and heart failure);

February 10: A 38-year-old female farmer in Sukhothai's Kong Krailat district (hanging);

February 11: A 42-year-old female farmer in Kamphaeng Phet's Klong Lan district (hanging);

February 12: A 42-year-old male farmer in Chachoengsao's Ratchasan district (drank pesticide).

As I said, perhaps it's time for Suthep to stop blocking the banks, and for EC to finish the elections, or at least to stop blocking government bond issues!

So, please explain exactly how Suthep is blocking the banks from doing anything

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Didn't you read the article? He said and I quote:

"BANGKOK: -- Protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban last night warned both commercial and state banks against any rice loans to the caretaker government with threat of facing shutdown by protesters."

I would say that's a blatant attempt to block the banks, wouldn't you?

[Bluespunk]

@ bluenosecodger.

Nothing to do with anyone else but PT. The scheme has failed. The farmers betrayed. Rice industry ruined. That is their true legacy

Bluesplunk the people need to be paid no matter the failed scheme, has not other Western countries made similar and more tragic blunders in Parliament? Surely so. I respect your posts, but at least think of the average farmer and their families. Who cares, pay them the money they need! On this occasion only you let down you're own morality in talking such gibberish. Its not the point. Other posters may not dare to contradict you on this matter. I for one will and I consider this post of yours to be idiotic. We all know the scheme was failed from the start, the IMF warned so. Reply if thy wish, but on this note people are hungry, starving, cold and killing themselves. Shameful post on this one occasion. Cricketnut.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The post you semi-quote was in response to an attempt by BNC to claim that suthep was responsible for the current plight of the farmers.

I have nothing but sympathy for the farmers plight and do agree they should be paid what they were promised. PT must pay its debts. Nothing in my post condemned the farmers or blamed them for their current misery. That is because those are not my thinking. I'm confused as to how you would draw that conclusion from what I said. The farmers cause is completely justifiable.

However I will respond to those revisionists who are attempting to rewrite the history of this debacle and put the responsibility for it elsewhere. PT alone bear that burden of guilt.

[Bluespunk]

@cricketnut.

Apologies. You quoted me in full. However that quote was part of a longer running thread whose quotes got messed up.

[MrSlatersParrot]

So the only argument is as to whether the farmers should be subsidized by their government to grow rice, rubber, palm oil, whatever or just allow market forces to dictate the price.

Should market forces be allowed to prevail with no protection for the farmers how would Suthep's rubber farmer protestors from the deep south currently in Bangkok feel if instead of the demanded 120 baht per kilo (90 baht offered to farmers throughout the kingdom) they would now only be entitled to the current 60 baht per kilo?

If farming were left solely to market forces subsistence farming would continue but many farmers would soon go out of business and you would see the consequences further down the line of food shortages.

The agrarian economy has to be planned to some degree.

France is the same size as Thailand with similar population and similar lack of natural recourses.

Ask the french farmers?

No. The argument has always been how to devise the BEST way to give a decent payment for product for vitally important crops. This scheme failed miserable . do you agree?

Vietnam is a poor country with poor farmers yet as far as i understand THEY are making changes/savings in the actual producing of the rice, increasing productivity (but not reducing quality)

Extending and improving cooperatives, Decreasing costs. these things help business around the world, they can help farmers.

The scheme is failing but as other posters have pointed out before these policies need time to bed in but those crying foul are those who do not wish to see these policies succeed.

The Dems, PDRC, yellows have further resorted to scare tactics, claims of poisoned rice, rotting rice, theft of rice,corrupted rice? with no duty of care to sustain the countries indigenous farm culture.

They're not even patriotic as they have sought to demean and destroy in the eyes of the world the countries agricultural products despite all their parading around with their flag.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

There's is just a posture, an arrogance,an assertion of dominance.

Destruction, sabotage their only weapons. A hate campaign with nothing absolutely to redeem about.

Go figure.

[casualbiker]

So the only argument is as to whether the farmers should be subsidized by their government to grow rice, rubber, palm oil, whatever or just allow market forces to dictate the price.

Should market forces be allowed to prevail with no protection for the farmers how would Suthep's rubber farmer protestors from the deep south currently in Bangkok feel if instead of the demanded 120 baht per kilo (90 baht offered to farmers throughout the kingdom) they would now only be entitled to the current 60 baht per kilo?

If farming were left solely to market forces subsistence farming would continue but many farmers would soon go out of business and you would see the consequences further down the line of food shortages.

The agrarian economy has to be planned to some degree.

France is the same size as Thailand with similar population and similar lack of natural recourses.

Ask the french farmers?

No. The argument has always been how to devise the BEST way to give a decent payment for product for vitally important crops. This scheme failed miserable . do you agree?

Vietnam is a poor country with poor farmers yet as far as i understand THEY are making changes/savings in the actual producing of the rice, increasing productivity (but not reducing quality)

Extending and improving cooperatives, Decreasing costs. these things help business around the world, they can help farmers.

The scheme is failing but as other posters have pointed out before these policies need time to bed in but those crying foul are those who do not wish to see these policies succeed.

The Dems, PDRC, yellows have further resorted to scare tactics, claims of poisoned rice, rotting rice, theft of rice,corrupted rice? with no duty of care to sustain the countries indigenous farm culture.

They're not even patriotic as they have sought to demean and destroy in the eyes of the world the countries agricultural products despite all their parading around with their flag.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

There's is just a posture, an arrogance,an assertion of dominance.

Destruction, sabotage their only weapons. A hate campaign with nothing absolutely to redeem about.

Go figure.

Your post is a strange one.. you claim that the problems are minor! You state that it's only the Democrats "scare mongering, with no duty of care to sustain the farm culture " also that have sought to destroy the the prestige of the products ..

Now lets see the facts. Many others (not Dems) have shown the problems with the scheme. Thailand used to be No 1 world rice exporter now No3. The delivered product quality has decreased hence the complaints. Whose fault ... oh yes Phua Thai!

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[personchester]

@ bluenosecodger.

Nothing to do with anyone else but PT. The scheme has failed. The farmers betrayed. Rice industry ruined. That is their true legacy

The financial scheme can and should be sorted successfully.

The governor of the Central Bank of Thailand should introduce Q.E. (quantitative-easing) in order to provide C.S.B. with the required finance to pay the farmers, and the public will have no longer bank problems,

Q.E. in a large sum, but not in a small one, will reduce the THB value within foreign exchanges, should they want to avoid this then they should contact I.M.F. and ask for a certain sum of financial loan input.

When the farmers financial problem is sorted, then the democrats have to find a new street protest matter.