Living In Thailand

[Cassandra]

Believe what you want, but if you have a bit of a musical ear (as someone here already stated), colloquial Thai is not that difficult for someone who is used to learn foreign languages. Thai has very primitive grammar compared to French, Latin, English or German, and the vocaublary comes along by itself. The tones don't pose too much difficulty if you speak in full sentences or phrases, and not single words.

It is just different learning methods. Nothing else.

I do know many people who read and write Thai very well, but their spoken Thai is atrocious. They have no feel for the language, they mull over every correct translation, and are not able to pronounce the vowels properly. But yes, they can read and write.

And as to just learning from wifes or girlfriends, yes, there are many people like that around, and yes, mostly their Thai is not very well. But if you have Thai friends, move with them in Thai only environments then your Thai language skills will improve dramatically.

People always make it up as if languages are difficult to learn, that one has to go through all sorts of complex lessons before being able to speak. This is rubbish. Languages are only tools for communication, and as long as you force yourself to communicate they will come to you without much effort.

Just as an experiment you should spend a few weeks in an isolated area where nobody speaks any language that you recognise. I bet that within those few weeks you will have basic survival skills in that language.

I am not saying that reading and writing is not extremely useful, but not being able to get beyond survival Thai without reading and writing - that is <deleted>.

Thank you Col. For a gentleman who is not always too easy to agree with , I agree with you 100% on this one. Good Post.

I have never heard a Thai say to me: "Oh your Thai is so English" or "Oh you speak like a lady" What kind of idiot farang would claim he could speak Thai and use Kah instaed of Krap- I ask you?

As I said in my previous post, almost every stranger (Thai) I meet compliments me on my clear Thai, or tells my wife, or another Thai who may be with me, how clear it is - I'm not imagining it - it's a fact!

As it happens I do have an ear for music and am very musical, so maybe this has something to do with it - and also, like Col. says, always try to string words togther in a sentence rather than spend time wondering if I'm using the right words in the right manner. I'm always understood, and if I get it a bit wrong, I am corrected instinctively by the Thais, and next time I remember, which all helps in my efforts to speak Thai better.

I reapeat ; It's great if you can learn to read and write - I wish I could - it would be very useful - but in itself its not an impedement to speaking Thai. There must be thousands of farangs in Thailand who speak fluent Thai, without being able to read and write.

It is a very common belief that musicality assists when learning a tonal language like Thai.However it is a complete delusion as any serious linguist can confirm.The late Mary Haas who was one of the most distinguished American experts on the Thai language and author of the famous dictionary pointed out this canard on several occasions.Nevertheless a talent for imitation or mimickry can be a help in learning any language at least in the early stages.

The poster above (Mobi) bragging of Thais complimenting him on his "clear Thai" is a rather comical example of a deluded farang with a high opinion of his linguistic ability.If I had a dollar for every semi educated visa runner who thinks he speaks "clear Thai" -a contention backed up by his tubby little ex-bargirl "wife" and her friends--I would be a rich man.

You really are a rude, insulting, patronising, jumped up little shit aren't you?

What's the matter? Still smarting from our last encounter? You hate Thailand, hate Thais, and get cheap thrills from making totally innacurate snide remarks to farangs who you have never met and of whom you have no knowledge of their backgrounds. parogon of gentlemanly charm , despite all the evidence to the contrary.

get a f..cking life and stop turning every thread you put your miserable, vitriolic spiteful posts into a pissing contest which ultimately causes closure.

On reflection I owe you an apology.The visa runner/ex-bargirl wife comments were uncalled for and I assume irrelevant -put it down to Saturday afternoon boredom.But a word of advice don't take it all too seriously.It's only a relatively superficial forum where nobody really knows anything about anyone else.For all I know you could be a well educated,intelligent, amusing paragon of gentlemanly charm despite the evidence to the contrary.

But my main intent was simply to state the irrelevance of musicality in terms of learning Thai language.

[KhunMarco]

Not a first, but what I found really helpful is listening to various lessons on my mp3 player, there's also a function to slow the track without changing the pitch which is great to stick those tones in your mind.

Also watching cartoons is a great help

I remember learning the numbers (my first task), I thought it was impossible, then one happy day you find yourself understanding the cashier. Ah , you feel all proud and smart

Learning the alphabet was a real pain...

Anyway it's all fun to me

[Galong]

The downside to learning Thai is that you'll realize how many of them talk crap about you.

There is a fun side to it however, because after they've insulted you... thinking that they got away with it... you come back with a reply in Thai.

Many Thais here in the South use very coarse language. they use the term Mutha F&%$# (in Thai) all the time.

[Ulysses G.]

Fur coat..no knickers..

My Thai is OK and never learned to read and write, however, I am a lot more interested in the bold statement above!

it is a common statement in the UK that refers to those that buy a FUR COAT...but cannot afford any KNICKERS..pretty self explanatory Georgie

I know that, but - taken literally - it kind of turns me on!

[Patex]

The downside to learning Thai is that you'll realize how many of them talk crap. about you

It's a blessing not to understand your fellow-man... and one of the main attractions when visiting/living in a foreign country- having a relationship with a foreigner.

Something to meditate on .

[Donz]

Im learning Thai now, its really hard for me.

I can say 8 words or so, next I want to learn how to count. That what I probaly should of learnt first

[BangnaBound]

My wife and I did the move back to Thailand about a year and a half ago, and the communication barrier was probably the biggest source frustration in the first year. Most of my Thai family speaks English fairly well, so around the house I rarely have a problem being understood, but I definitely felt a restriction on my independence when I when out on my own. Granted, some of the restrictions were probably self-imposed, but not being able to articulate your simple wants and need with out speaking slowly and using hand signals is very tiring. And the fact that I can get away with English at home and I live close to BKK has made me a little lazy with my Thai studies.

For me, foreign language acquisition is difficult and learning the little Thai that I know has been very slow. No one way of learning has an absolute advantage over the others. People’s results differ from one method to another. There seams to be a little debate over if reading/writing Thai is necessary. There is the “No need” school of thought and the “Must read” at the extremes, and the full continuum in between. What school you belong to is less determined by personal opinion than how your brain is wired to acquire information. I’m an extremely visual person, and had very little success learning Thai until I started learning to read and write. I’ll give another recommendation for Benjawan Poomsan Becker's 'Thai for beginners'. I’ve gotten more mileage out that book in the last few months than I have over the last few years. I’ve found the combination of studying books with the accompanying audio, then going out away from the family and practicing what I’ve learned has been very helpful. I probably only have a vocabulary of less the a thousand words (mostly numbers ), but being able to use the little that I do know has been a very rewarding experience. I haven’t taken any intensive courses yet, but now that I’m making to some progress, I think they could do me some good.

If you have another 6 months until you get to Thailand, I’d definitely recommend studying hard. It will help make the transition easier. I found this website useful: http://www.learningthai.com. It has a good sampling of different learning methods: reading, writing, listening, and speaking exercises. You just need to figure out what works the best for you. Like many people have said, I think the hardest part is having the discipline to put in the hours.

Good luck!

[Savage]

The poster above (Mobi) bragging of Thais complimenting him on his "clear Thai" is a rather comical example of a deluded farang with a high opinion of his linguistic ability.If I had a dollar for every semi educated visa runner who thinks he speaks "clear Thai" -a contention backed up by his tubby little ex-bargirl "wife" and her friends--I would be a rich man.

Seems your sole purpose on TV is to bust balls Cassandra. I remember very clearly the day when Thais stopped saying that I speak Thai well (poot gahng) to I speak Thai clearly (poot chat). The former they will tell you even if all you can say is sawatdee khrup.

I second this entirely. You know you are on the right path when people use chat as oppose to gaeng.

[Neeranam]

I am going to the AUA school in Bangkok, they just speak to you in Thai no English spoken. Teachers are mainly Thai men. Seems to be working for me and it will not break your bank account. Like all things it just takes time and effort. whistling.gif

I went there years ago and asked about courses for grammatical points to be explained.I had already learnt a bit of conversational Thai. They said there was no English spoken - I said I'll go home and watch telly then, it's free.

I have no problems in communicating in everyday conversation, although I struggle in intellectual ones. I never went to any classes, but used to hang out in areas and institutions where only Thai was spoken. I learned to read using a book, and writing just came naturally over time.

QUOTE(tywais @ 2006-05-27 13:36:07) *

QUOTE(Cassandra @ 2006-05-27 13:23:00) *

The poster above (Mobi) bragging of Thais complimenting him on his "clear Thai" is a rather comical example of a deluded farang with a high opinion of his linguistic ability.If I had a dollar for every semi educated visa runner who thinks he speaks "clear Thai" -a contention backed up by his tubby little ex-bargirl "wife" and her friends--I would be a rich man.

Seems your sole purpose on TV is to bust balls Cassandra. I remember very clearly the day when Thais stopped saying that I speak Thai well (poot gahng) to I speak Thai clearly (poot chat). The former they will tell you even if all you can say is sawatdee khrup.

I second this entirely. You know you are on the right path when people use chat as oppose to gaeng.

There are other levels to hear as you improve. Speaking "chat" does not mean you are "geng". My wife can fool some people into thinking she can speak English by saying a few words ni the Queens English learned from a Posh mate.

Pood khlong is a nice one to hear.

The downside to learning Thai is that you'll realize how many of them talk crap about you.

There is a fun side to it however, because after they've insulted you... thinking that they got away with it... you come back with a reply in Thai.

This is true but is it a downside?

[Mobi]

I am going to the AUA school in Bangkok, they just speak to you in Thai no English spoken. Teachers are mainly Thai men. Seems to be working for me and it will not break your bank account. Like all things it just takes time and effort. whistling.gif

I went there years ago and asked about courses for grammatical points to be explained.I had already learnt a bit of conversational Thai. They said there was no English spoken - I said I'll go home and watch telly then, it's free.

I have no problems in communicating in everyday conversation, although I struggle in intellectual ones. I never went to any classes, but used to hang out in areas and institutions where only Thai was spoken. I learned to read using a book, and writing just came naturally over time.

QUOTE(tywais @ 2006-05-27 13:36:07) *

QUOTE(Cassandra @ 2006-05-27 13:23:00) *

The poster above (Mobi) bragging of Thais complimenting him on his "clear Thai" is a rather comical example of a deluded farang with a high opinion of his linguistic ability.If I had a dollar for every semi educated visa runner who thinks he speaks "clear Thai" -a contention backed up by his tubby little ex-bargirl "wife" and her friends--I would be a rich man.

Seems your sole purpose on TV is to bust balls Cassandra. I remember very clearly the day when Thais stopped saying that I speak Thai well (poot gahng) to I speak Thai clearly (poot chat). The former they will tell you even if all you can say is sawatdee khrup.

I second this entirely. You know you are on the right path when people use chat as oppose to gaeng.

There are other levels to hear as you improve. Speaking "chat" does not mean you are "geng". My wife can fool some people into thinking she can speak English by saying a few words ni the Queens English learned from a Posh mate.

Pood khlong is a nice one to hear.

The downside to learning Thai is that you'll realize how many of them talk crap about you.

There is a fun side to it however, because after they've insulted you... thinking that they got away with it... you come back with a reply in Thai.

This is true but is it a downside?

I suppose I'd better clarify a few things, otherwise Mr Cassandra might think he was right after all. I know he was trying to wind me up - but for what reason, only he and his God would know.

So, just for the record.

I'm not a visa runner

My wife is not a tubby little ex bar girl.

I will treat the inference that I am semi literate with the contempt with which it deserves.

When I said that Thais tell me that I speak "clear" - I meant CLEAR. i.e. they invariably say "Pood chat". I am not talking about speaking to bar girls; I talk to educated, professional Thais, working Thais, and Thais who I meet every day in shops, offices etc. Even when Thais speak quite good English, they elect, (as Thai speaking farangs will know so well), to speak to me in Thai,as they are more comfortable speaking in their own language, and why shouldn't they be?

I have never claimed that I am a brilliant Thai speaker, and I certainly don't denigrate those who have slogged hard to learn and read the language - well done to them, and as a previous poster said, everyone has their own route to learning a language, and if reading and writing helps, then good luck to them.

To me, a test of my level of competence in Thai would be:

Can I hold a reasonably intelligent conversation in Thai for, say, a period of half an hour without having to resort to a dictionary? Can I understand Thais when they are conversing with each other? Can I understand Thais when they are speaking to someone on on the telephone? Can I understand Thais and converse with them when they speak to me in Thai on the telephone? Can I explain reasonably complex issues in Thai to a non English speaker? Can I understand Thai televison programmes?

I can say, (and if it is bragging , then why not?), that the answers to all the above questions is a resounding "yes"

I have done a Google on the connection between a "musical" ear and learning a tonal language , and there are anumber of scholarly articles to the affect that there is such a connection, so the subject may not be quite as cut and dried as the poster has suggested.

Just wondering Cassandra - where does your level of competence in spoken Thai fit into the scheme of things? Or do you rely on your minions to speak English to the big white master?

Edited May 29, 2006 by Mobi D'Ark

[AlexLah]

I try to get the logic of building a sentence but I just don't get it.

I know maybe 500 words now but I do not have a 'feel' with them.

I know for example how to say: Where is the restaurant, actually should say: Restaurant where is

And that is the problem with some of the learning books, they tell you what a certain sentence means but not the individual words.

Another example when asking what is your nickname, in Thai you say: you name play say what?

Maybe someone here can give some advice on how to get that sentence structure logic?

It is that logic of sentence structure that just does not stick in my head also some words I just keep on forgetting.

I find it very though to learn Thai but maybe also it is because I travel about 3 weeks a month outside of Thailand so I cannot join some school.

Anyway I will keep trying by listening to some tapes but just now someone tells you should learn from a guy but a lot of the stuff in Benjawan Poomsan Becker's tapes is spoken by a lady!

Does that mean I am learning it incorrect?

OK back to tape 1.....

[Ulysses G.]

Anyway I will keep trying by listening to some tapes but just now someone tells you should learn from a guy but a lot of the stuff in Benjawan Poomsan Becker's tapes is spoken by a lady!

Does that mean I am learning it incorrect?

No, but you might turn into a ladyboy!

[chaiyapoon]

I have been coming to Thailand more often and for longer periods.

Learning the language made a lot of sense.In my early days I had an Isaan girlfriend and spent long periods up in an around Udon.Picking up thai was very difficult as nearly everyone spoke the local language.I wasn't about to try to learn two new languages at the same time.Progress was slow and she for what ever reason always said my very limited thai was ok.

Move forward to late last year, finished with old girlfriend and find a new lady.This one is Thai and not from the night life side. She spoke poor english remembered from school days,though she still could read and write a suprising amount of english.She pulled my' thai' to pieces;virtually everything was wrong in some detail.She is very excating and won't except any mispronunciation.I have learnt more thai with her in a few months than in the previous 3 years.

I listen to Thai tv and ask what this or that means.Soon I was able to guess what was happening more and more.Started picking up phrases from songs etc.I listen to any spoken thai I can.I listen particularly to her dad who is more like a 'mate' than a potential father in law I pickup and use his phrases.I felt I was making real progress.

Now back in UK trying to sell my house and make the break.Have extensive Thai music and language cds on my laptop which I listen to it every day then speak on the phone with my new words trying not to slip backwards.And yes I want to to read and write as well.

I'm sure I will have take lessons to realy improve.So that will be my next step.

[a2396]

I think communication or lack thereof is one of the biggest hassles of living in Thailand. Learning adequate Thai for conversation would take years for me. It is not an easy language with different sounds and alphebet. I think a major problem here is the avoidance of people to tell things like they are (talking straight), no matter what language they are using. It seems to be a cultural thing for Thais to tell you what they think you want to hear. The truth is often buried underneath various pleasantries, with vague and unclear responses to questions. I have a few Thai friends who speak good English and do not convert it to "Thaispeak". I know where I stand with them when they are done talking. Unfortunately, they are the exception here.

[Gary A]

I believe that speaking the local language is important for people trying to make a living here. I went through a great deal of pain learning the alphabet and trying to learn the tones.

I speak just enough Thai now to get by. I got disgusted trying to read because my vocabulary simply wasn't large enough to understand the written language with no separation between the words. I admire anyone who stuck with it and learned to be fluent.

I am now older and getting more crotchety and have no desire to have conversations with the locals. Even if I do happen to understand I will often tell them I don't understand. Yes, I would have to admit that I AM getting more antisocial.

[OneeyedJohn]

a2396..u r absoulutely bang on correct. In many situations with my wife present this aviodance of giving a direct answer to direct question is the hardest to fathom. Even if I was fluent ( I'm neither that nor affluent, but possibly effluent ) this elongongated conversational fencing would not change.

[toptuan]

Among the multitude of disadvantages of living in Thailand without knowing Thai, three ADVANTAGES ARE:

1) When they want your money

2) When Isaan Mother tries to give away 40-year-old Ugly Daughter to you

3) When you're stopped by the police

That response of babbling back in any non-Thai tongue works every time!

Edited May 30, 2006 by toptuan

[BKKstan]

Really depends on what your lifestyle and age is.If you are old and /or fat, like me,with a much younger wife,you are already a ''joke'' to most Thai's and speaking Thai will more than likely make you a bigger joke in their eyes,especially if you think you are good at it.In this situation ''it'' has very little value to you except to tell them something ,which probably won't be to your advantage either,Just learn basic words so you can talk baby talk,they appreciate your ''respect'' of Thailand for attempting to learn their language and they are more comfortable around you when they are speaking to their friends.Plus you don't have to endure the insult of them changing dialects or languages when they want to say something not for your ears.

Maybe if you are working here in Bangkok,learning to speak Thai more fluently might be helpful,otherwise you will be able to communicate enough to get along with baby talk and at the same time allow the Thai his ''superiority''.

Don't kid yourself,you are never going to be a family member or make friends in the village.You will buy your relationships and when you balk at spending or loaning,you will be scorned.Set your agreements with your wife before hand ,then let her do the communicating.Don't concern yourself with what they think of you or whether you can communicate with them......Just stay the dumb shit they think you are anyway.This is not Farangland.It's Thailand and you are it!!

[oopapasan]

if you make the effort you will pick up, don't be disheartened, at times it feel very difficult but stick at it and you will be fine, once your sourrounded by native speakers you learn the language much more quickly, good luck

Been here 14 yrs and know 14 Thai words.It is more important that my girlfriends learn English(and they do).I am not shy I get what I want without talking.Just me and I get along rather well.Money talks and Thai speakers sometimes walk.

Edited June 1, 2006 by oopapasan

[mark45y]

I don’t think you will find anyone who has a post graduate degree in any of the social sciences or education that will ever advise against speaking Thai if you live or visit Thailand. I don’t think you will find anyone in those disciplines who would find even one circumstance where it would be to your advantage not to speak Thai.

I do however think there will be many ex pats sitting in bars drunk to half drunk that will enthusiastically advise against speaking Thai.

I guess you can criticize formal education but one wonders how much open heart surgery or space flight or serious economic advice is believed in a bar atmosphere.

No body is too dumb to learn Thai. There are however a whole bunch of people who are too lazy and don’t want to admit that.

Or not being lazy they are so enamored of their own cultures that they are unable to admit to themselves that other cultures and languages are also important.

Or not being lazy or ethnocentric they have no confidence in their ability to learn another language.

I have a hard time understanding many things about Thailand and in my top ten is understanding how some Farangs choose to isolate themselves from the local culture and people by language and lifestyle.

I understand the colonial traditions of superiority but find them unreasonable in a modern world.

I have a number of stories but I will only relate two.

I have a friend who has a lovely wife and nice lifestyle that includes a driver among other servants. He came to visit a few months ago. It took me 12 minutes to figure out his wife was having an affair with the driver. I never told him.

I have a farang woman friend who owns a bar along with her Thai husband. She is the laughing stock of the Thai neighborhood because her husband is about as faithful as a bunny in heat. All of her customers who speak fluent Thai are aware of this fact but no body will tell her including me.

I figure if they are too lazy to learn Thai it is none of my business to inform them.

Oh by the way Mark is not my real name. Maybe it’s you.

The only good reason I can figure out for not speaking Thai is that old adage “Ignorance is bliss.”

[Donz]

hey ive just learnt how to count to 10, it took me a few day though. It took a few days to get the high and low pitches done right, but now I can do it perfectly

[Mobi]

I don’t think you will find anyone who has a post graduate degree in any of the social sciences or education that will ever advise against speaking Thai if you live or visit Thailand. I don’t think you will find anyone in those disciplines who would find even one circumstance where it would be to your advantage not to speak Thai.

I do however think there will be many ex pats sitting in bars drunk to half drunk that will enthusiastically advise against speaking Thai.

I guess you can criticize formal education but one wonders how much open heart surgery or space flight or serious economic advice is believed in a bar atmosphere.

No body is too dumb to learn Thai. There are however a whole bunch of people who are too lazy and don’t want to admit that.

Or not being lazy they are so enamored of their own cultures that they are unable to admit to themselves that other cultures and languages are also important.

Or not being lazy or ethnocentric they have no confidence in their ability to learn another language.

I have a hard time understanding many things about Thailand and in my top ten is understanding how some Farangs choose to isolate themselves from the local culture and people by language and lifestyle.

I understand the colonial traditions of superiority but find them unreasonable in a modern world.

I have a number of stories but I will only relate two.

I have a friend who has a lovely wife and nice lifestyle that includes a driver among other servants. He came to visit a few months ago. It took me 12 minutes to figure out his wife was having an affair with the driver. I never told him.

I have a farang woman friend who owns a bar along with her Thai husband. She is the laughing stock of the Thai neighborhood because her husband is about as faithful as a bunny in heat. All of her customers who speak fluent Thai are aware of this fact but no body will tell her including me.

I figure if they are too lazy to learn Thai it is none of my business to inform them.

Oh by the way Mark is not my real name. Maybe it’s you.

The only good reason I can figure out for not speaking Thai is that old adage “Ignorance is bliss.”

Good post. I could add a few stories like your's.

A non Thai speaker who is in a relationship can have no idea how brilliant it is to understand pretty much everything your lady says on the phone, and to her friends & family. Thai ladies love to be secretive if they can get away with it, but once they realise you understand the lingo, the game is up and they often turn into very open and honest spouses - I think mine has.

If there's ever an advantage in not speaking Thai (I doubt it, but who knows?) then you can simply play dumb - you don't really have to be a non-speaker to convince someone you're a non speaker.

[Neeranam]

Really depends on what your lifestyle and age is.If you are old and /or fat, like me,with a much younger wife,you are already a ''joke'' to most Thai's and speaking Thai will more than likely make you a bigger joke in their eyes,especially if you think you are good at it.In this situation ''it'' has very little value to you except to tell them something ,which probably won't be to your advantage either,Just learn basic words so you can talk baby talk,they appreciate your ''respect'' of Thailand for attempting to learn their language and they are more comfortable around you when they are speaking to their friends.Plus you don't have to endure the insult of them changing dialects or languages when they want to say something not for your ears.

Maybe if you are working here in Bangkok,learning to speak Thai more fluently might be helpful,otherwise you will be able to communicate enough to get along with baby talk and at the same time allow the Thai his ''superiority''.

Don't kid yourself,you are never going to be a family member or make friends in the village.You will buy your relationships and when you balk at spending or loaning,you will be scorned.Set your agreements with your wife before hand ,then let her do the communicating.Don't concern yourself with what they think of you or whether you can communicate with them......Just stay the dumb shit they think you are anyway.This is not Farangland.It's Thailand and you are it!!

Why don't you try learning and you'll see it is the total opposite of what you say.

[NovaBlue05]

Im learning Thai now, its really hard for me.

I can say 8 words or so, next I want to learn how to count. That what I probaly should of learnt first

The first two phrases you need

kor chang eek koo-ut dai mai khrap?......followed by...hongnaam yoo tee nai khrap

[Cassandra]

I don’t think you will find anyone who has a post graduate degree in any of the social sciences or education that will ever advise against speaking Thai if you live or visit Thailand. I don’t think you will find anyone in those disciplines who would find even one circumstance where it would be to your advantage not to speak Thai.

I do however think there will be many ex pats sitting in bars drunk to half drunk that will enthusiastically advise against speaking Thai.

I guess you can criticize formal education but one wonders how much open heart surgery or space flight or serious economic advice is believed in a bar atmosphere.

No body is too dumb to learn Thai. There are however a whole bunch of people who are too lazy and don’t want to admit that.

Or not being lazy they are so enamored of their own cultures that they are unable to admit to themselves that other cultures and languages are also important.

Or not being lazy or ethnocentric they have no confidence in their ability to learn another language.

I have a hard time understanding many things about Thailand and in my top ten is understanding how some Farangs choose to isolate themselves from the local culture and people by language and lifestyle.

I understand the colonial traditions of superiority but find them unreasonable in a modern world.

I have a number of stories but I will only relate two.

I have a friend who has a lovely wife and nice lifestyle that includes a driver among other servants. He came to visit a few months ago. It took me 12 minutes to figure out his wife was having an affair with the driver. I never told him.

I have a farang woman friend who owns a bar along with her Thai husband. She is the laughing stock of the Thai neighborhood because her husband is about as faithful as a bunny in heat. All of her customers who speak fluent Thai are aware of this fact but no body will tell her including me.

I figure if they are too lazy to learn Thai it is none of my business to inform them.

Oh by the way Mark is not my real name. Maybe it’s you.

The only good reason I can figure out for not speaking Thai is that old adage “Ignorance is bliss.”

This is a reasonably pertinent post although the two anecdotes at the end are rather lame.Almost by accident I ended up studying Thai formally and passed various examinations under the sponsorship of my chamber of commerce in Bangkok.I have learnt however that until a farang's capability is verified by an independent and well educated Thai, one should take the foreigner's assessment of his own ability with a very large pinch of salt (no matter how many boastful posts are made on this forum).This is why I don't make a song and dance about my own proficiency.

[wasabi]

I don't know anyone here personally so I can't attest to your proficiency in Thai. However all of my Thai friends feel very few farangs can speak Thai beyond a preschool level and even less can pronounce the language correctly. Living in Thailand does seem essential since the tonality goes beyond just the individual words but how they sound and flow together in sentences and speech.

I'd say some examples of what I'd personally consider proficient is if you can watch Thai TV and understand what's going on you are proficient in listening to Thai. If you can read a newspaper you are proficient in reading and if you can have a phone conversation about your wife's visa with the Thai embassy in Thai then you are proficient in speaking.

I've been studying 2 years and cannot do any of the above. I also haven't had the chance to live in Thailand, I think if I could I'd quickly fill in many of the gaps in my knowledge that stops me from gaining ground at the speed I'd like.

The point of this is not to insult or question what anyone said, only that there are many who think they are good at Thai who in actuality are fooling themselves. I think it's a very desirable skill because few can do it, so many claim they can.

Edited June 2, 2006 by wasabi

[meadish_sweetball]

I don't know anyone here personally so I can't attest to your proficiency in Thai. However all of my Thai friends feel very few farangs can speak Thai beyond a preschool level and even less can pronounce the language correctly. Living in Thailand does seem essential since the tonality goes beyond just the individual words but how they sound and flow together in sentences and speech.

I'd say some examples of what I'd personally consider proficient is if you can watch Thai TV and understand what's going on you are proficient in listening to Thai. If you can read a newspaper you are proficient in reading and if you can have a phone conversation about your wife's visa with the Thai embassy in Thai then you are proficient in speaking.

I've been studying 2 years and cannot do any of the above. I also haven't had the chance to live in Thailand, I think if I could I'd quickly fill in many of the gaps in my knowledge that stops me from gaining ground at the speed I'd like.

The point of this is not to insult or question what anyone said, only that there are many who think they are good at Thai who in actuality are fooling themselves. I think it's a very desirable skill because few can do it, so many claim they can.

I basically agree with what you are saying - only with the correction that if you can really read a Thai language newspaper without much effort, then you are highly proficient in Thai. For foreigners who have started to learn Thai at an adult age, my own guess is that they can be counted in the hundreds... if that.

Personally, I can read contemporary novels, and understand a lot more of them than I do of the newspapers. News-speak Thai is highly stylized, full of abbreviations, and plenty of slang. Two months' worth of full time studies devoted to reading newspapers when already proficient at reading basic Thai did improve my skills a bit, but the sad truth is that if you give me a random front page from a Thai newspaper today, I would only be able to get about 40-50% of it without consulting both a dictionary and a Thai friend.

[Mobi]

Personally, I can read contemporary novels, and understand a lot more of them than I do of the newspapers. News-speak Thai is highly stylized, full of abbreviations, and plenty of slang. Two months' worth of full time studies devoted to reading newspapers when already proficient at reading basic Thai did improve my skills a bit, but the sad truth is that if you give me a random front page from a Thai newspaper today, I would only be able to get about 40-50% of it without consulting both a dictionary and a Thai friend.

Just as a matter of interest, and slightly off topic, but is that why so many Thais rarely, if ever read Thai newspaers? Is it because they also struggle to follow them or is it simply because they are not interested - and that most of the papers are full of "tabloid" rubbish?

I have noticed that Thais with obviously a poor or very basic education often read tha papers, so I guess it's not a lack of reading ability - or is it?

[ColPyat]

Just as a matter of interest, and slightly off topic, but is that why so many Thais rarely, if ever read Thai newspaers? Is it because they also struggle to follow them

Yes.

Often i let my wife read to me from her newspaper. Two problems, i understand only a fraction, and she has to interpret it to me in a more common language. Second problem is that when the topic becomes too political, she herself needs a Thai with better education to explain it to her.

It's highly stylised Thai, with partly a different set of vocabulary.

I can understand normal Thai movies without much problems, but Suryothai i didn't understand a word. While watching i asked my wife to interpret it for me in a simpler language, problem was - she understood not much more than me.

If you listen for example to the King's speaches, they are relatively easy to understand as he does not use the complex palace Thai when adressing the public, but a language that is understood everywhere. That is also one of the recipies for Thaksin's success - people in the villages understand him, while the Democrats use a language that is to high for common villagers without education to understand.

The different levels of Thai use often completely different vocabulary for the same expressions. The class of people are very distinctly separated by their use of expressions.

for example:

eating - kin (common), tan, or labatan (polite), savoy (palace)

week - athit (common), sabdaa (polite)

knowing - roo (common), saab (polite)

husband - poah (common), sami (polite), pasawami (palace)

wife - mia (common), palayah (polite), no idea what the palace expression is.

[bannork]

Personally, I can read contemporary novels, and understand a lot more of them than I do of the newspapers. News-speak Thai is highly stylized, full of abbreviations, and plenty of slang. Two months' worth of full time studies devoted to reading newspapers when already proficient at reading basic Thai did improve my skills a bit, but the sad truth is that if you give me a random front page from a Thai newspaper today, I would only be able to get about 40-50% of it without consulting both a dictionary and a Thai friend.

Just as a matter of interest, and slightly off topic, but is that why so many Thais rarely, if ever read Thai newspaers? Is it because they also struggle to follow them or is it simply because they are not interested - and that most of the papers are full of "tabloid" rubbish?

I have noticed that Thais with obviously a poor or very basic education often read tha papers, so I guess it's not a lack of reading ability - or is it?

I'd have to disagree here, a lot of newspapers are sold, the tabloids have 2 or 3 editions a day. The language used varies according to the topic, for instance crime, gossip and scandal stories use common everyday Thai and slang whilst political commentaries naturally use more formal language.

In my view the tabloids in Thailand, ie Thai Rath, The Daily News, Khao Sod are far superior to the likes of The Sun, Daily Mirror etc for apart from sensationalism every issue contains analysis of politics and current events by at least 3 columnists, advice for farmers, gardeners, business news,etc.

A weak point is the poor coverage of foreign news.