Is There Really Racism In Thailand Or Is It Just Prejudice ?

[laobali]

Would like to know what is behind this racism - if anything at all. Is there a logical explanation to it? It must have a reason, must it not? Why is it so, that the lighter skin you have, in Thailand, the 'finer' and more beautiful you are? It is that they consider africans as a lower rung on the ladder of evolution or something? Just a suggestion. Or is it just something the Thai (all Asien, actually) people have decided out of no reason?

Because I really do not understand why it is so, here in Thailand - as well as in most of the world, actually.

Anyone has a clue?

Apparently, as far as Thailand is concerned, it is Chinese in origin. The richest and most influential Thai families *edited out* came from China where skin colour is much lighter than other ethnic groups that settled in the region and worked out in the sun on the land rather than in offices. Anyone watching Thai TV will see the predominance of light, almost whiter-than-white skin on local stars, from soaps to advertising. Most of the skin-whitening products on the market are made in China. White is definitely in. It is racism but not specific to Africans. It's about dark (sunburnt) skin, seen as working or low class by the Thai-Chinese (who can often be identified by their family names as being so).

Edited February 10, 2014 by Scott

[smileydude]

Thais unfortunately are not exempt from the human weakness of racism.

The racism you experienced is a type of prejudice Thai people have against certain skin colors born from sterotypes.

For example there is a rather ignorant Thai saying passed down for generations that goes like this :

"if you see a snake and an Indian, hit the Indian first"

I know this seems extremely racist and any South Asian would be rightly offended but unfortunately I guess someone's bad experience that an Indian cannot be trusted (even less then a snake) was passed down until it became embedded in Thai folklore.

Thai's have likely picked up the most of the stereotypes portraying colored people as being criminally minded and violent from Hollywood who have probably single-handily influenced stereotyping of all races more then any other forms of media. Think dumb blond, sassy redhead, all asians know kung-<deleted>, middle-eastern terrorists, Russian KBG spies, South African mercs, etc etc and I could go on and go.

Stereotypes exist everywhere but the degree varies with each culture. Zatoichi said it well when it comes to education and what schools are trying to sell.

The positive thing I can say about racism in Thailand is that it is not born out of hatred unlike what many colored people have experienced in the the US even up to today. Some people here may think lighter skin personifies superiority but thats pretty much its limit. No underlying element of hatred unlike what we see committed in homophobic or religious related crimes.

Once Thai's get to know you I'm sure you will see their prejudiced views disappear as fast as they came.

Racism here is superficial.

I think the questionable recruitment standards reflects on the quality of the school to a certain degree.

So let it be their lost that they let go a qualified candidate because they judged a book by its cover.

Edited February 10, 2014 by smileydude

[recycler]

Basically everybody that is not Thai is discriminated here even by law. In that respect white and black "aliens" are the same.

What probably adds to your situation being black is that Thais like white skin a lot and people who are of dark skin are associated with working on the fields.

If you are qualified teacher I think you will find less problems at international and higher level bi-lingual schools where there is a (partly) foreign management, they will go for qualifications. An Iranian or Israeli (funny combination on one school!!!) with no qualifications can never teach at a decent school.

Apart from this, I sense is that a lot of Thais have a misplaced sense of superiority that shows up in many ways, a bit like Germans that say that in Germany everything is always better. No matter where you are in the world with a Thai and what fantastic food you eat with them, Thai food is always better! Or the reaction on telling somebody that something is wrong.... the falang can not say that to us because we are Thai....

But non of this will change in our lifetime, so you better get used to it or go somewhere else ;-)

[duanebigsby]

yanyk

Yes it is racism, and of course, like all racist behavior, it comes from a lack of education.

Which is ironic as you are an educator.

The Thai schools get a lot of African English applicants who sometimes have a heavy accent. My school wants the neutral American accents or Canadian speakers. If you're English with a strong accent that's negative.

But, ugly as it is, faced with two equally qualified Native Speakers my school will pick the white applicant. They would not choose white skin over incompetence.

If you were willing to check out Chiang Rai, my school CVK, is looking for 7 native speakers next term.

I think they might be more fair, as they listen to you speak and want qualified people.

I applaud your perseverance. Good luck!

[Rorri]

Hasn't this been posted previously, albeit some months back.

[pkspeaker]

I remember reading a similar post on another forum once, same issue, native speaking black man was replaced with non-native speaking europeans or an israeli .. also I know this black woman and she says people look at them funny and giggle like when they're on the bts.. one time i was with her and i saw this middle aged thai man look at her in a grouse manner, she didn't notice but I did, I wanted to dek that <deleted>.

(OP)Does that happen to you?

No doubt it is normal here, they discriminate against their own race, the ones that that have darker skin are considered stupid and they just accept it, maybe if they started standing up for themselves first then.. Even the hottest girls here who have dark skin think they are less hot than an ugly chik just because she has whiter skin.

The whole political conflict here is based in prejudice "upcountry people are too stupid and unsophesticated to vote"

Did you know.. when absolute monarchy was abolished in 1932, Field Marshal Phibun Songkram (this countries first military dictator) kept a signed photograph of Italian dictator Benito Mussolini hanging behind his desk.. The entire coup was carried out by french educated facists, they then changed the countries name from 'Siam" to Thailand.. Siam was a patchwork or Lanna's, Loa's, Thai's, khemers, but the Thai's were dominant, so they decided to assimilate the rest of the country under this "thainess" but they never gave up their feelings of superiority-it's the roots of the conflict your seeing outside in the streets..this idea that this group of people is inferior to this one.. I afraid to say before they even start to drop their prejudice against foreigners, they need to fix their own society.

Edited February 10, 2014 by pkspeaker

[Evolare]

I am black and very hard working. I have decent education background and now fully armed with a BA and loads of teaching experience. Still it's really difficult for me to get a job in Thailand. At this one school, a week after I had started to teach, I was told that an Italian teacher would replace me cos "I was not qualified enough". I met the Italian teacher "Mr. Alex" and all the staff was so pleased to meet him. I found out the he was actually and Iranian refugee called Ali'who didn't even have a high school diploma! What's more funny is that one of the other "English Native Speaker" in this same school was an Israeli who spoke some English but did not know the English alphabets and I was being replaced!! I kid you not! I have heard of worse scenarios than mine. Due to the fact that I am black and living in Thailand I try so hard to do more than what is required of me to keep a job. It's really painful to see backpackers and other not so qualified teachers replace us cos they are white. I dream of a day where all teachers in Thailand would have to go through a government sponsored screening process run by WHITES! Yes! We Blacks have a better chance of employment in Thailand when the interviewer is a CAUCASIAN!!

Having said this there are a handful of blacks that are paving the way for the rest of us. I was employed in a school outside of Bkk. simply because they were happy with a black teacher that once taught there. We have been through worse WE WILL OVER COME...SLOWLY BUT SURELY!

Yes there are racists not only towards blacks but towards whites and anyone not thai or asian. there are even predjudice against other asians. But far from all are racists but many are naive and unaware of their behavior. Some fully aware i think. But finding a good job is difficult for white and black alike.

I must add that thais are much more used too whites than blacks maybe im trivializing but that could be a reason.

How are your thai language skills?

I have noticed things gets easier and easier the more thai i speak!

Take care and keep your head up!

Edited February 10, 2014 by Evolare

[GuyL]

Discrimination towards black people in Thailand is such a well-known fact that it is even used in a famous local advertising.

Edited February 10, 2014 by GuyL

[pkspeaker]

another thing.. you can ratt this school out if they hiring people who don't have BS degree..the law, although not well enforced requires all foreign english teachers to have at least a BS degree.

[Jools]

Thais may be racist but there is a much different basis for it than you would find in many other countries. They discriminate against their own people on the basis of light or dark skin. I've always been a bit embarrassed when I would get compliments on my SKIN. They think farangs are nuts because they pay to use tanning beds.

[Scott]

You can ratt out the school, but it's the teachers who will get in trouble.

[robert888d]

_{Most Thai people are unfortunately racist. They look down on people from Laos, Miramar and Cambodia and look down on people with dark skin. Were I black, I think Thailand is not a country where I would like to live or work.}

[pkspeaker]

I think that commercial is actually against racism, the theme is that racism is wrong..

This is how you say some one is mean or nasty or generally bad in thai:

ใจเจ้าดำ

jai(heart) jow(a varient of she/he) dum(black)

Edited February 10, 2014 by pkspeaker

[zeichen]

Am I the only one that saw pictures of Ying Luck flirting with Obama? My Aunt comes here all the time and she loves Thailand. She has never ever experienced anyone being disrespectful to her. Try being dark skin in Russia and then tell me comparatively how racists Thais are.

[GuyL]

I think that commercial is actually against racism, the theme is that racism is wrong..

[...]

I know, but it shows just how common and prevalent such discrimination is in Thailand.

[OnMyWay2]

_{Most Thai people are unfortunately racist. They look down on people from Laos, Miramar and Cambodia and look down on people with dark skin. Were I black, I think Thailand is not a country where I would like to live or work.}

I wouldn't call Thais racist but they are guilty of stereotyping. Many of them have probably never seen a dark skinned person with money or an education.

Thais in my experience are not racist not surprisingly since half of their own people have dark brown skin.

Edited February 10, 2014 by OnMyWay2

[makecoldplayhistory]

I have two African American friends who teach or have taught in Thailand. While it was possible for them to find jobs, it was not easy. I should add that both of them have BAs.

One gave up on teaching and now does online work, the other is still teaching, but is only earning about 1/2 of my pay (though part of that differential is due to the fact that I am a Science teacher and he is an English teacher).

What kind of school pays twice as much to an English teacher as a science teacher?

I guess one that requires a BA and not an actual qualification in education?

[pkspeaker]

he said the science teacher makes twice as much

[mrfaroukh]

It is sad but as many have mentioned racism are everywhere. Most racism I have seen in Thailand is business oriented. There are many bars, disco's in walking street that only allow European or American guests. If you are from Asia and want to enter any of these places then you may be allowed if you show your passport. The reason is not that they prefer white people, but usually because they drink more and spend more as they are just tourist and want to have lots of fun with their strong currency.

Your problem is probably business oriented. May be they experience that they get more students if the teacher is white. By the way Iranian and Israel's are also not considered white in Europe and they have the same problem as you have in Thailand.

So just cheer up and have a 2nd plan if you can't get a job as teacher.

[kennypowers]

Sorry to hear of the racism you have experienced. I admire your resolve to keep battling and advance in your career despite the ignorance. If I may, I'd like to take this opportunity to share some related research I've been reading up on lately:

The racist Thais need to brush up on their anthropology, as the Thai is a lot closer to African descent than they realize, which is probably why quite often you see Thais who look mixed race, or more African than Asian. Indeed some Thai women are very black skinned and facially could quite easily be from African parentage.

I quote:

About 1,000,000 years ago, Homo erectus moved on to Asia from Africa, where it had originated. A recent study undertaken by geneticists showed that there was no inter-breeding between modern human immigrants to Southeast Asia and Homo erectus,^[1] affirming that the Thai descended from Africans in accordance with the recent single-origin hypothesis.^{[2] _ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Thailand}

[Shaunduhpostman]

I was attending a certain University of California campus during the 80's when the famous UCLA sociology professor Angela Davis was teaching there and she had some interesting and spot on insights which she used to clarify a bit a definition for racism as opposed to prejudice.

Growing up in the US in the 60's and 70's, I remember the two terms seemed to carry roughly the same meaning, but racism always had a stronger edge and began to be used as the preferred term especially for those who had been wronged. One of Angela's points she emphasizes when speaking on social injustice, whether it is racial or class or gender based, was that simple prejudice is a common human flaw found among anyone regardless of race, nationality etc, that it is something along the lines of fear or dislike or even hatred towards anyone who is different.

Racism, on the other hand, is ratcheting things up to the next level, in her definition, and I always thought it a useful definition at that. And by ratcheted up, I mean she defined racism as prejudice that has a function in a society to maintain a system of exploitation or to uphold and/or defend the economic interests of certain groups as integral to the economic well being of the U.S. and some other countries where ethnic or racial groups are used by other more powerful racial or ethnic groups. An example would be how racism arguably protects U.S. whites from having to compete fairly for jobs, education, other opportunities, income etc. Or how racism functions to create a poorer underclass of cheap labor the economy depends on to function. Whereas prejudice does not function to systematically keep certain groups out of the picture, it is simply an innate human flaw. So, by Davis' definition, where some U.S. blacks might be prejudiced against whites, by definition they cannot be racist, because they don't have the socio-economic power to use their prejudice as a tool or even weapon with the aim of making the majority of whites compete successfully against the white sector of the U.S.

Imho, by Dr. Davis' definition, it would probably very arguably seem that Thailand is a racist system/society. One might ask if indeed it is a coincidence that darker skinned Thais are more often farmers and factory workers whereas the lighter skinned ones are more often found heading banks, teaching at universities, and are far and away wealthier and more educated. While at the same time, anyone a little bit tanned feels they need to use skin whitening or products. The large numbers of those products suggest there is a real problem with having even somewhat tanned skin. As to how all that transfers over and influences attitudes towards foreigners who are dark skinned is anyone's guess. It may be just prejudice or it may be the racist caste system attitudes carrying over. I suppose it doesn't make a lot of difference which it is, the result is the same: lose-lose for everyone involved, a good teacher who would otherwise be able to make a contribution is not allowed to contribute and a good teacher loses an otherwise good employment opportunity. Like some others have said, it's finally a reflection on the quality of the school, and perhaps it is all for the better and you'll be able to find work at a better place.

[Halion]

Rather interesting quandary. Thailand has native Thai's in both the North East and the South who have a very dark skin color, therefore, for Thai's to be racist then they are also hypocritical and regionally myopic which flies in the face of their so called Thai-ness

I think that it is more a case of prejudice due to ignorance and media influence rather than racism.

[focus27]

I have removed some rather nasty posts. Please stay on topic.

I am involved in the hiring for several schools. Thailand is quite racist and being black is a definite disadvantage. Out of hiring maybe close to 1,000 teachers over the years, I have been able to get 3 black people hired and the first one was hired from overseas and the director didn't realize he was black. The other two were simply outstanding in their field (upper level maths) and it was either hire them or a much less qualified Filipino.

It may not be much of a consolation, but in my experience the Thai admin (at least where I work) do not like anyone. We are a commodity and that is about it.

Best of luck. On racial issues, Thailand is speeding into the 1600's.

I haven't read the whole thread yet but this post reminded me of this wiki link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_cultural_mandates

Read it and you will see where many attitudes originate from.

I don't think the penchant for white skin has anything to do with caucasians - they just seem to be the accidental beneficiaries - but more towards white Chinese. Some years ago was reading some 18th century Thai poetry and in one scene the princess daubs herself in white powder. These cultural traits can take centuries to change; in Europe being very white was once a sign of wealth, then in the 1950s having a suntan became a sign of wealth - go figure!

Good luck to the OP

[Tacho De Lao]

yes racism is alive and well , it is a very brave post you made , well done mate ,,,,, i often say to my wife , now i know what the blacks have been struggling against for centuries , i get a reminder daily in LOS and i am white ...the common Thai mentality is if you have black skin, u must be a farmer and have no education therefore you are below us ... when posed the question, well the most powerful man in the world the President of the USA is black , how do u explain that ? too hard .....

I feel for you ,i am ashamed of the Thai people for being so ignorant and god knows how they will fit in with the other 9 ASEAN countries .... remember its not you that has the problem ...

goodluck dont give up man !!

thanks so much..life is even harder when you are a black man..but trust me, i am not giving up, we are not giving up, and definitely no right thinking human being is giving up on this..because we all share humanity

It's great you are not giving up. And Cdmtdm is as my British friends say "spot on". The sad fact is do not expect it to change in this lifetime for either of us.This ingrained in their culture and stems from similar beliefs in China. You can't hope for change in something that is part of 1000 years of history. The light skin, dark skin thing expecially. Your best example is the current political nonsense. It's basically class warfare. Yes there is corruption Duhhhhh we all know that, but look at the history. This happens everytime someone not part of the Bangkok elite(tending to be light skinned) don't have control. Every election has been dismissed or tossed out by a coup. It's BKK versus the rest of the country(more or less) and outside BKK is where the non white skin is. Also having taught here for some time I do know similar commments about your job being able to be taken at any time is true. No matter how much better qualified you are. A "farrang" will never be part of the hiring process except at International Schools. And even then they can be overrulled as they have to cater to their rich customers, er I mean students. The ignorance and nationalism and drive to not lose face are things that will only change, much like a flat plane in North America one day became the Grand Canyon.

[kerrysum]

If you're being discriminated against unfairly based on your race/ethnic background, it obviously is racism. Most Thais might not see it that way but that doesn't mean it isn't so.

Sorry,

But the original poster left one a chance to reply....

Thai heritage, is funny this way, the lighter the skin, the better you are....

It is what they believe, and no I do not accept this.....

Thai's definitely have a complex with skin tone.....

I am married to an Issan, of darker color, and she has been looked down upon...

It has been this way for years......

kilosierra

[iamariva1957]

Hay Scott... how do I get in touch with you about a placement? I live up here in Mae Sot and though I am qualified up one way and down another... I cannot seem to be able to get into any of the real schools here. I am White and from the US with experience in teaching all ages in the States and been a lecturer on history, film/TV history, and English Lit and Composition. But I am 56 years old and though do not look it and come from a very good family background (Hollywood), I have had no luck at all. Racisim is a world wide issue. That we all know, or at least should. The color of your skin, sexual orientation, religious beliefs, background (not legal of course), or age should not be an issue but rather the positive impact you can have on the students in your care. I understand the Thai first mandate (unwritten as it might be), but why is it that I have such difficulties in getting a placement where I can be of the most good? Get in touch Scott!

[yanyk]

Hi there OP I'm black American as well, and I've been here for ages. What your facing in the teaching field is not a new issue. But it's not for the reasons you think. Normally you would assume that a private school is selling a better standard of education. However here this is usually not the case. They are selling a image to ignorant parents who think white skin = better English ability. It's kind of like how back Stateside you may find that some people who are interested in Martial arts, opt for a Thai Muay Thai instructor over a white one even if the white one's record is better, or a Chinese Kung <deleted> instructor over a Mexican one even if he's been practicing longer.

It's BS yeah, but it's a business, and if you customer wants it you give it too them.

You may want to consider changing up your career choices and look for something that involves interacting with expats or better educated, more worldly Thais. For example when I first came here I didn't even consider teaching English as a viable job route. Instead I sold Time Share, for me it ended up paying a hell of alot more than most teachers, the hours were better and the only time I dealt with racism was from the occasional Brit after work. And even that was rare, maybe 3 times in 13 years.

thanks so much for taking your time to reply. i will consider what you just said

[thailampang2012]

Unfortunately..the obsession of Thai people to do everything they can to clear its skin is not just for what is more beautiful to them. It is rare to see a white skin Thai with a dark skin spouse....

[yanyk]

Discrimination towards black people in Thailand is such a well-known fact that it is even used in a famous local advertising.

thanks so much for this video, its says it all, appearance can be deceiving

[laobali]

Discrimination towards black people in Thailand is such a well-known fact that it is even used in a famous local advertising.

thanks so much for this video, its says it all, appearance can be deceiving

This is off topic, but I can't see Thais (or anyone else) taking to black toothpaste by being shamed into it or otherwise. Teeth are supposed to be white and we want them whiter. I reckon the makers would sell a lot more if they made it black and white striped at least.