Emerging and growing tourism segment in Thailand -- gays taking a holiday from oppression

[Jingthing]

I got this idea from a bizarre item I overheard on a Pattaya expat radio station.

The announcer was talking about the recent recriminilization of homosexuality in India and then mentioned, this represents a great opportunity for Pattaya tourism, gays from India taking a holiday to be themselves here LEGALLY.

Now sex tourism per se is not a new tourism segment.

Not talking about sex tourism in this thread.

That's different and not a newer segment.

This is specifically about ESCAPING FROM LEGAL AND SOCIAL OPPRESSION tourism.

I hope people can appreciate the difference while also of course understanding they aren't pure separate categories and there will be overlap.

Some random images of this growing segment that I've personally observed --

-- A group of Indian looking ladyboys partying in a shisha bar

-- Out young Russian gays and lesbians (some even sporting "gay propaganda" clothing) having a grand time ... WITH EACH OTHER (not chasing Thais!)

-- Gay Iranians (with their distinctive groomed eyebrows) enjoying the town in groups or couples like the Russians (but rather more discreetly)

I guess Thailand (Pattaya particularly) is game for most any new and growing segment!

The twisted thing about that news item is the tone of it was almost celebratory, like WHOPPEE, new laws against gays, they'll be coming here to spend money!

(Note -- I actually think this topic would be better in the PATTAYA forum, but thought it "safer" to put it here. That's a shame because this forum is so thinly posted to. It might be more interesting to hear from a wide Pattaya demographic on this topic.)

Edited February 9, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

I guess I was right that there wouldn't be any interest about this here. Oh well.

If it was moved to the Pattaya forum, I would be pleased, but it's not my call ...

[Rimmer]

After consultation we believe this will do better in Pattaya Forum.

Moved to Pattaya

[PattayaPhom]

If its genuinly not a sex thing, maybe they would be better going to Koh Samet or the likes, no temptation there as is in Pattaya

[Jingthing]

If its genuinly not a sex thing, maybe they would be better going to Koh Samet or the likes, no temptation there as is in Pattaya

Plenty of non-gay Russians, Indians, Iranians, etc. come to Pattaya for holidays for non-sex tourism, often FAMILY vacations.

Why not gay people as well?

There are also partying type, exciting, and more urban tourism things available in Pattaya as well that would not be on offer in quiet destinations.

Pattaya is very famous in Russia specifically.

Gay Russians will be curious as well.

If you're talking about romantic honeymoons, that's different.

It's not like these travelers can't go other places either.

The news item was about a fresh tourism opportunity for Pattaya.

From India, India is already a big market here, the gay market in general is probably a shrinking market here compared to the past, but this was about the gay Indian market being attracted to a place to be more free now that India has made homosexuality illegal again.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Jingthing

[onthemoon]

I think I get JT's point: Oppression is bad, but we can view it as an opportunity for increased Thai tourism - and that is bad, because we see the new or increased oppression as positive.

JT, If that is what you are saying, I partially agree.

I also believe that every crises is an opportunity, and if they cannot get the freedom they need in their country (over which we have no influence), we can at least make sure that they feel welcome here. Give them their needed relaxation and free space, and if that means that Thai hoteliers can fill more rooms, I don't see anything bad about it. As long as they don't overcharge and take unfair advantage of it, that is.

[Jingthing]

It's not bad. But it's kind of creepy to celebrate oppressive laws anywhere. But I guess that's the world. Funeral directors don't get paid if people don't die. Taken to the extreme the Pattaya tourism promoters would be promoting MORE countries to increase oppression of gay people. Not saying they would EVER actually do that, but if it's all about the money and nothing to do with ethics, that's the logical next step.

Yes, you did get my point. Thank you for that.

Part of my shock was actually the TONE OF VOICE of the radio announcer who talked about this story. It seemed totally disconnected from the pain the oppressed people might be experiencing in their home countries. Not even trying to suggest that was something worth thinking about.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Jingthing

[onthemoon]

I agree it's creepy - good analogy to the funeral home - , but I (like yourself) would never think for a moment that the Thai government would seek to promote gay oppression in other countries just to promote tourist dollars over here.

I don't know abut the tone of voice though, I haven't heard the announcer.

[Jingthing]

Has anyone else noticed an increase in this as I indicated in the OP?

I have.

I have noticed the gay Iranians for years now, but recently seeing more obvious gay Russians and gay South Asians (can't really tell if from India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, etc. though).

A question I have maybe someone can answer.

The other day I saw some really cool looking Russian lesbians wearing illegal in Russia gay propaganda accessories (rainbow stuff) and I really wanted to say something supportive to them, but didn't know what to say.

If they did speak at least some English (not sure) how would one politely express support to gays or lesbians coming from oppressed countries?

[HeavyDrinker]

I'm not overly against homosexuality however the last time we were in Samet, walking back from Silver/Naga late at night as we went through Ao Phai, we heard odd noises and on flashing my torch We saw (I'll leave it to your imagination) my cry of "oi leave it out'' was met by a reply of 'sorry pal, but when you've got to go, you've got to go"... so we go'ed....but is there a need for such open displays of one's sexuality?

I don't rod the wife in public to express my heterosexuality and I think we're getting close to an overload of gay 'rights'

[Jingthing]

You're talking about an entirely different aspect of sexuality.

The intention here wasn't to promote people having sex in public ... any kind of people.

But as you brought it up, I don't recall any sex on the beach type arrests in Pattaya that involved gay sex.

The stories tend to be involving hetero Russian couples.

But again this isn't about promoting or condoning such actions.

The international gay civil rights movement is primarily about equal treatment under the law. Not a movement to legalize public sex.

In the unfortunate case you experienced, perhaps that couple thought they had privacy. Hopefully they thought that anyway.

Also, perhaps you are confused. Criminalizing homosexuality in India doesn't mean that PUBLIC SEX in India was legal before or that it should have been. It's about criminalized homosexuality in general.

In some countries, the oppressive anti-gay laws have become much more extreme than Russia, such as in Nigeria. I don't know that Pattaya will be seeing many gay Nigerians though.

Anyway, given the recent wave of anti-gay backlash in multiple countries, Pattaya tourism may really be onto a growth market with this segment in general.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Jingthing

[PattayaPhom]

If its genuinly not a sex thing, maybe they would be better going to Koh Samet or the likes, no temptation there as is in Pattaya

Plenty of non-gay Russians, Indians, Iranians, etc. come to Pattaya for holidays for non-sex tourism, often FAMILY vacations.

Why not gay people as well?

There are also partying type, exciting, and more urban tourism things available in Pattaya as well that would not be on offer in quiet destinations.

Pattaya is very famous in Russia specifically.

Gay Russians will be curious as well.

If you're talking about romantic honeymoons, that's different.

It's not like these travelers can't go other places either.

The news item was about a fresh tourism opportunity for Pattaya.

From India, India is already a big market here, the gay market in general is probably a shrinking market here compared to the past, but this was about the gay Indian market being attracted to a place to be more free now that India has made homosexuality illegal again.

Sure Pattaya would be as good a place as any, just wondering though if people are oppressed and then suddenly have freedom to express their sexuality.....Pattaya may not be the best place. With the gay sex areas we have here, I would be inclined to think they could get in a routine and may just end up trawling these places. Surely a more conservative place would be better as long as their sexuality is accepted.

[i claudius]

Are you gay by any chance Jingthing? anyway ,while not careing what two men ,or women get up to in private ,i myself do not want to see men ,making open displays of affection to other men in public ,i personally find it offensive ,i am also sick of hearing about gay rights ,gay pride marches and the like (what would be the reaction if we had hetrosexual pride marches?).

but again after saying that each to their own ,if two men want to beat each other with sticks of rhubarb,i couldnt care less ,just do it in private and stop going on about being gay and how normal and great it is.

[OMGImInPattaya]

What's the name of the bar with the Indian ladyboys and where is it located? They may be on a "zero rupiah" tour if you know what I mean.

And yes, I'm all for this trend...do you know if Russia and India have passed anti-transsexual laws as well. After all, variety is the spice of life.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Are you gay by any chance Jingthing? anyway ,while not careing what two men ,or women get up to in private ,i myself do not want to see men ,making open displays of affection to other men in public ,i personally find it offensive ,i am also sick of hearing about gay rights ,gay pride marches and the like (what would be the reaction if we had hetrosexual pride marches?).

but again after saying that each to their own ,if two men want to beat each other with sticks of rhubarb,i couldnt care less ,just do it in private and stop going on about being gay and how normal and great it is.

Foul! Hate speech alert! I'm sorry the existence in public of some people offends you. Maybe you should just stay indoors.

[besth]

Has anyone else noticed an increase in this as I indicated in the OP?

I have.

I have noticed the gay Iranians for years now, but recently seeing more obvious gay Russians and gay South Asians (can't really tell if from India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, etc. though).

A question I have maybe someone can answer.

The other day I saw some really cool looking Russian lesbians wearing illegal in Russia gay propaganda accessories (rainbow stuff) and I really wanted to say something supportive to them, but didn't know what to say.

If they did speak at least some English (not sure) how would one politely express support to gays or lesbians coming from oppressed countries?

Unless you got into a conversation with them for some other reason, don't you

think that going to them to express support for what should be normal all over

the world, would defeat the purpose a bit?

Who knows, they might love it, but in an ideal world you wouldn't even have noticed them for the fact that they were lesbians. The fact that here they can behave like that might be what they look for. Next time try and let us know.

Regarding the OP, I think gays are already coming to Pattaya in big numbers.

They are a generally mid to high end spending group.

Suggesting TAT to promote that kind of tourism, considering their usual rate of "success" in their campaigns and new ideas... really?

[i claudius]

Are you gay by any chance Jingthing? anyway ,while not careing what two men ,or women get up to in private ,i myself do not want to see men ,making open displays of affection to other men in public ,i personally find it offensive ,i am also sick of hearing about gay rights ,gay pride marches and the like (what would be the reaction if we had hetrosexual pride marches?).

but again after saying that each to their own ,if two men want to beat each other with sticks of rhubarb,i couldnt care less ,just do it in private and stop going on about being gay and how normal and great it is.

Foul! Hate speech alert! I'm sorry the existence in public of some people offends you. Maybe you should just stay indoors.

Wow ,i did not think or mean that to be a hate speech ,and as most guys are hetro ,and do not like to see two men kissing ect in public ,if this is what you want then i think it is you that should stay indoors to do it ,once again i repeat what two men want to do in PRIVATE is entirely up to them ,i have no problem at all with that.

[mogandave]

Why do you suppose "...this forum is so thinly posted to."?

[mogandave]

By this forum I meant the gay forum, not the pats forum.

[Jingthing]

I wasn't suggesting anything. However this thread isn't about gay tourism in general which is already officially promoted in Thailand but rather this NEW market of people from countries with RECENT more severe legal oppression. Of course the more severe legal oppression is not new in Iran, etc. However in recent years things have gotten a lot worse for gay civil rights in Russia, India, and multiple African nations.

The topic of promotion of general gay tourism is separate and has been discussed on the gay forum. The intent of this thread is much more limited -- to be about escaping from legal oppression holidays.

Cheers.

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Edited February 14, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

I also don't know if supportive comments would be welcome by out gay and lesbian Russians in Pattaya. I agree it would be awkward unless you had another reason to be talking to them. One thing I do know is that the cute young ones are not interested in socializing with me being older and like most Russians here are often not after Thais either. Perhaps some people don't realize there are now plenty of places for gay people to socialize in town not linked to transactional sex.

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[Jingthing]

Why do you suppose "...this forum is so thinly posted to."?

That's a can of worms but the reality is that forum has very few active posters. There are a number of gay Thailand for foreigners boards where perhaps gay people feel more comfortable.

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[luk AJ]

I support "Claudius" I have no problem what people do behind closed doors, but I also find it offensive in public. If this means, as one joker proclaimed, we should stay indoor, well that's exactly what I would do. I realize most of you will not agree but as "them" I can't change my feelings right?

[OMGImInPattaya]

Are you gay by any chance Jingthing? anyway ,while not careing what two men ,or women get up to in private ,i myself do not want to see men ,making open displays of affection to other men in public ,i personally find it offensive ,i am also sick of hearing about gay rights ,gay pride marches and the like (what would be the reaction if we had hetrosexual pride marches?).

but again after saying that each to their own ,if two men want to beat each other with sticks of rhubarb,i couldnt care less ,just do it in private and stop going on about being gay and how normal and great it is.

Foul! Hate speech alert! I'm sorry the existence in public of some people offends you. Maybe you should just stay indoors.

Wow ,i did not think or mean that to be a hate speech ,and as most guys are hetro ,and do not like to see two men kissing ect in public ,if this is what you want then i think it is you that should stay indoors to do it ,once again i repeat what two men want to do in PRIVATE is entirely up to them ,i have no problem at all with that.

But two women probably turns you on...what's with that? I'll tell you, hetro women get a big turn on see a couple hot guys kissing in public (and are major consumers of gay porn) so don't worry dude, the gays are doing it for them...not you!

Prudes like you must also get all red in the face when you run into those dogs "stuck together" around town. I mean, shouldn't they be doing that stuff behind a bush.

[mogandave]

It seems odd that one week we're all about bashing the Ruskies in pats, t the next week we are promoting them, as long as they're homosexual.

I don't like people being overly affectionate in public, be they homosexual, heterosexual, trysexual, monosexual, whatever.

[mogandave]

Why do you suppose "...this forum is so thinly posted to."?

That's a can of worms but the reality is that forum has very few active posters. There are a number of gay Thailand for foreigners boards where perhaps gay people feel more comfortable.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I doubt it's the the comfort level of homosexuals posing but rather their....well, you know.

[Jingthing]

It seems odd that one week we're all about bashing the Ruskies in pats, t the next week we are promoting them, as long as they're homosexual.

I don't like people being overly affectionate in public, be they homosexual, heterosexual, trysexual, monosexual, whatever.

Gay people in Russia are severely oppressed. There is now strong evidence that this oppressed group welcomes international attention and pressure on that horrible situation. It won't improve quickly, that's for sure.

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[Jingthing]

Why do you suppose "...this forum is so thinly posted to."?

That's a can of worms but the reality is that forum has very few active posters. There are a number of gay Thailand for foreigners boards where perhaps gay people feel more comfortable.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I doubt it's the the comfort level of homosexuals posing but rather their....well, you know.

Whatever. That's settled then.

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Edited February 14, 2014 by Jingthing

[ThaiBob]

.......

I don't like people being overly affectionate in public, be they homosexual, heterosexual, trysexual, monosexual, whatever.

Well said.

In general, I wish people would check in their bigotries and prejudices at the airport, they can pick them up when they leave.

[Jingthing]

Being gay is not (generally) a choice. It's a sexual orientation.

It is not a lifestyle. Surfing is a lifestyle.

Is being straight a choice? Is being straight a lifestyle?

Please this thread is not intended to be about EVERYTHING in the world related to the controversial subject of homosexuality.

The OP says what it's about. It's limited.

The reason I thought it belonged in the Pattaya forum was because the subject came to my attention on a Pattaya expat radio station talking abour this SPECIFIC kind of tourism being an emerging tourism market specifically for Pattaya (escaping from legal oppression from recent legal setbacks for gays, even more specifically from India, though the same issue applies to Russia, African countries, etc.). Again, it's not even about ALL gay tourism (again, rather this escaping from legal oppression SEGMENT of that) and it's certainly not about commercial sex tourism.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Jingthing