US tourist visa declined for Thai citizen

[Guitar God]

My gf applied for a B2 tourist visa to go Hawaii for a 2 week vacation and was declined. The only thing they said was to come back with more paperwork and didn't specify what.

I'm looking for suggestions on what she should or shouldn't bring and should or shouldn't say at the next interview.

She has a letter from her manager at her government job saying she has the time off and needs to be back at work.

She brought a copy of her bank book.

She owns land here.

She has a purchase contract for a fairly expensive house she/we just bought here.

She has transcripts from her university where she is finishing a graduate degree.

She is half owner of a Thai business.

All of her relatives and family live here. She has no friends or relatives in the US.

The only hints as to why they weren't convinced she was going to come back were:

He asked what other countries shes been to and she showed him her old passport and he thought she traveled a lot. She went to Aus a few years ago for two weeks and has been to Europe and a few Asian countries on holidays with me in the past few years and a few trips for work to surrounding countries.

She changed her first name a few months ago for good luck as many Thais do.

I don't live in the US and have no plans to move there but for some reason they had doubts whether she would come back.

To me it seems obvious that she has strong ties to Thailand. Any suggestions?

[khwaibah]

Were you mentioned in the application ?

[Guitar God]

I was listed as contact person in the US and name of person paying for the trip.

I have an address there but don't reside there, I'm inclined to have her leave the contact person blank on the next application.

[ubonjoe]

What is your visa or extension of stay status here. If you can prove that you have ties to here that helps greatly.

[ubonjoe]

A off topic post that implies possible illicit activity has been removed.

[khwaibah]

UJ suggestion is spot on. At the same time by you being mentioned in the context as stated you became a reason for not returning. You need to show your reasons for staying in Thailand.

[tomwct]

The embassy is looking for a letter from someone who resides in Hawaii and invites your girlfriend to stay with them! They will normally approve with your GF's

other documents!

[Guitar God]

I understand the reasoning but we're not going there to visit anyone and the application was truthful. The only people I know in Maui are Mick Fleetwood and Woody Harrelson but only casually. I've been there before and liked it and wanted to go there with her for vacation. Surely Thai citizens can get a visa to vist the US without having friends there?

[Shot]

You don't need a letter from anyone in Hawaii.

Do you live in Thailand?

If yes, the first thing she should hand the agent is your passport showing your ties to Thailand.

[Guitar God]

Yes I live here but I'm a few weeks away from having my 1 year visa, I'm on a (2nd) 90 day B visa now. I gave her a copy of my passport but didn't include a copy of the visa page. I explained my situation in a cover letter. Only the applicant is allowed in during the interview. I was there with her but neither of us thought for her to bring my actual passport with to her interview. Having that or the visa page might have helped. Or they might have wondered why I traveled so much and made an issue of that.

[thailampang2012]

I was listed as contact person in the US and name of person paying for the trip.

I have an address there but don't reside there, I'm inclined to have her leave the contact person blank on the next application.

That may be a problem. An address there....I hear that it is better to mention just a Hotel's name and no personal contacts...

[Shot]

Yes I live here but I'm a few weeks away from having my 1 year visa, I'm on a (2nd) 90 day B visa now. I gave her a copy of my passport but didn't include a copy of the visa page. I explained my situation in a cover letter. Only the applicant is allowed in during the interview. I was there with her but neither of us thought for her to bring my actual passport with to her interview. Having that or the visa page might have helped. Or they might have wondered why I traveled so much and made an issue of that.

She needs your passport with any significant pages flagged (1st and 2nd 90 visa and if possible your new 1 year visa). I wouldn't worry about the amount of travel you do, as long as you can prove you spend the rest of your time in Thailand.

[Shot]

Also, I wouldn't leave out anything from the first application. Just add the new information. First thing they will look at is the old application and compare. These agents are well trained.

[JLCrab]

When someone supplies list of activities as copious as in post #1 --even if completely true -- it is possible that the US Immigration, post based upon past experience, may believe that it is not credible and they do not have the time and/or inclination to investigate further.

(Edit) Maybe what the US Imm officer's smell-detector honed in upon was that she lists that she is half owner of a business but she does not list who is the other half? Would that other half be the contact person? (Reading elsewhere on the Marriage & Divorce forum, it is.)

It may also be not credible that a single Thai woman would travel to the USA alone for 2 weeks and have no personal contact other than the manager of the hotel she has booked.

Edited February 13, 2014 by JLCrab

[Thanyaburi Mac]

JL

It's a Consular Officer at the Embassy that did the tourist visa rejection, not an Immigration Officer at port of entry.

Guitar, I'd suggest waiting for another application until you have your one-year extension. BTW, what will the extension be based on, "retirement?" If so, include that in your cover letter for the re-application.

Also include a document or two, like a bank transfer, for the funds for the house purchase, even tho it'll be in her name.

These could be the "additional documents" the interviewing ConOff mentioned.

Mac

Mac

[Guitar God]

When someone supplies list of activities as copious as in post #1 --even if completely true -- it is possible that the US Immigration, post based upon past experience, may believe that it is not credible and they do not have the time and/or inclination to investigate further.

(Edit) Maybe what the US Imm officer's smell-detector honed in upon was that she lists that she is half owner of a business but she does not list who is the other half? Would that other half be the contact person? (Reading elsewhere on the Marriage & Divorce forum, it is.)

It may also be not credible that a single Thai woman would travel to the USA alone for 2 weeks and have no personal contact other than the manager of the hotel she has booked.

She brought what she had heard was usually requested and wanted to be prepared. I think she only showed what they asked for.

She wasn't traveling alone, we were going to be traveling together. I wrote a cover letter saying that I'd be paying for our expenses. Yes, we're business partners. I assumed they would look on that as a stronger connection to Thailand for both of us.

[Guitar God]

I think the issue was her not having a copy of my visa page combined with not leaving the US contact person blank on the application and supplying a copy of my US license and European residence permit. I think If she'd had my pasport or a copy of the visa page and expained that I had moved here and didn't have a residence in the US the immigration officer wouldn't have been so suspicious.

When she applied for a Schengen visa and I sponsored her I supplied as much info as possible about me and our relationship and it was approved without a problem.

JL

It's a Consular Officer at the Embassy that did the tourist visa rejection, not an Immigration Officer at port of entry.

Guitar, I'd suggest waiting for another application until you have your one-year extension. BTW, what will the extension be based on, "retirement?" If so, include that in your cover letter for the re-application.

Also include a document or two, like a bank transfer, for the funds for the house purchase, even tho it'll be in her name.

These could be the "additional documents" the interviewing ConOff mentioned.

Mac

Mac

[JLCrab]

When someone supplies list of activities as copious as in post #1 --even if completely true -- it is possible that the US Immigration, post based upon past experience, may believe that it is not credible and they do not have the time and/or inclination to investigate further.

(Edit) Maybe what the US Imm officer's smell-detector honed in upon was that she lists that she is half owner of a business but she does not list who is the other half? Would that other half be the contact person? (Reading elsewhere on the Marriage & Divorce forum, it is.)

It may also be not credible that a single Thai woman would travel to the USA alone for 2 weeks and have no personal contact other than the manager of the hotel she has booked.

She brought what she had heard was usually requested and wanted to be prepared. I think she only showed what they asked for.

She wasn't traveling alone, we were going to be traveling together. I wrote a cover letter saying that I'd be paying for our expenses. Yes, we're business partners. I assumed they would look on that as a stronger connection to Thailand for both of us.

You may be totally correct and the rejection was all related to documenting your status in Thailand. By 'single' I meant unmarried.

My guess as above is otherwise

[Guitar God]

I'm hoping I finally have the 1 year soon, the government closures delayed things so much I had to go to KL to get a second 90 day visa. This will be based on business.

Including a copy of the bank check for the house and specifying the type of my visa are good ideas I hadn't though of.

She did have a signed and stamped copy of the purchase agreement which had tax stamps on it.

More is better though probably.

The problem was the officer never mentioned anything, he only said she could apply again and supply more documents. She asked "what kind of documents" and he said "more".

JL

It's a Consular Officer at the Embassy that did the tourist visa rejection, not an Immigration Officer at port of entry.

Guitar, I'd suggest waiting for another application until you have your one-year extension. BTW, what will the extension be based on, "retirement?" If so, include that in your cover letter for the re-application.

Also include a document or two, like a bank transfer, for the funds for the house purchase, even tho it'll be in her name.

These could be the "additional documents" the interviewing ConOff mentioned.

Mac

Mac

[Ticketmaster]

I was listed as contact person in the US and name of person paying for the trip.

I have an address there but don't reside there, I'm inclined to have her leave the contact person blank on the next application.

I think that is what did you in. You should have been completely out of the picture. But if she applies again, the cat's already out of the bag, she has an American boyfriend.

I was in the US Peace Corps for a two year commitment when I came here. I married my wife during that time. At the end of the two years, I had to return to the US for one month to dispose of personal property, with the plan to come back here immediately and permanently. I wanted to take my wife. She owns lands. She has a lot of money in the bank. She owns a car. She has been a government school teacher for 25 years and would lose all her retirement benefits is she quit. I thought having an American husband would help the process. I am a lawyer.

I prepared her tourist visa application. It was scorched earth, indexed and tabbed. It had documents to substantiate everything mentioned above. Instead of a letter from me, I provided a sworn affidavit stating our intentions, and mentioning that I was a lawyer and an officer of the court. She had several letters of reference, as well as a letter from the government giving her permission to travel (teacher's need this). She had pictures of her family and a statement that she was the primary caregiver for her aging parents. She included a copy of her brother's passport, showing that he had traveled to the US several times -- and returned to Thailand.

As you know, she must go into the US Consulate interview alone, which is conducted in English. My wife speaks fluent English. EVERYTHING was thoroughly covered. I was 100% confident. I waited outside. I was surprised when she came out about two minutes later with tears in her eyes. The ICE officer took one look at the application and asked for MY passport, which she did not have, so he looked it up on the Consulate computer, and immediately denied her application and told her she needed to apply for a K-1 visa (immigrant based on marriage). He did not take one look at the documents she had; he did not "interview her." This was Chiangmai, and I was not allowed inside that day.

I got the guy's description and went back the next day, taking the application and documents with me. I went up to the window and spotted the guy, summoning him over. I asked him what the deal was. He said he wasn't supposed to discuss it with me, but would as a courtesy. He said it was purely his judgment. His duty was to determine if sufficient proof was offered that the applicant would leave the US at the time required, and he said he felt the burden had not been met. That was why he recommended the K-1. I said, "But hey, you did not even look at these documents. How could you form such a judgment?" I also told him a K-1 application would be fraudulent as it states an intention to immigrate to the US and my wife has neither the desire nor the intention to immigrate to the US. She wants to live with her family in Thailand. He said it was simple. She was married to me. I had just finished the Peace Corps and my visa was expiring soon. I had no replacement visa. I had no evidence of permanent establishment in Thailand other than being married. He told me that if I came back and established myself in Thailand and she reapplied a year after that, she might get it. "But," he said, "right now there is no evidence that you will return to Thailand, and if you don't, she may not either."

So you see, it was all about me -- not her. Had she been single, I think she would have been granted the visa. Had she kept her maiden name and never told them she was married to an American, I think she would have gotten it (but that would be fraudulent).

The OP did not state his situation here. What visa? Are you here permanently? Are you on a retirement extension, or do you only have a work visa, which would be insufficient to establish permanence? The OP, having an address in the US, puts his girlfriend's application on shaky ground.

I have now cut off every connection I previously had with the US other than being a citizen. I am well established here in Thailand. I am quite sure my wife could now get the tourist visa with no problem. The only thing is, I never want to set foot on US soil again. It's not the place in which I grew up. Freedom there is now nil. TSA and the police are out of control. I have ten times as much freedom here in Thailand as has anyone in the US. Go back to the US?? No thanks!!

I might add that the single worst place I have ever been in Thailand is the US Embassy in Bangkok. It was like going into a prison. And the asshol_e officers treated me like I was a criminal. I don't need that kind of shit from anyone. And the rude way they in which they were treating the Thais made me ashamed to be an American. I'll take this opportunity to wish all the ICE agents down at the embassy a happy Macha Bucha and a Fukah Yukha.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Ticketmaster

[daboyz1]

I think that is what did you in. You should have been completely out of the picture. But if she applies again, the cat's already out of the bag, she has an American boyfriend.

I was in the US Peace Corps for a two year commitment when I came here. I married my wife during that time. At the end of the two years, I had to return to the US for one month to dispose of personal property, with the plan to come back here immediately and permanently. I wanted to take my wife. She owns lands. She has a lot of money in the bank. She owns a car. She has been a government school teacher for 25 years and would lose all her retirement benefits is she quit. I thought having an American husband would help the process. I am a lawyer.

I prepared her tourist visa application. It was scorched earth, indexed and tabbed. It had documents to substantiate everything mentioned above. I had several letters of reference, as well as a letter from the government giving her permission to travel (teacher's need this). As you know, she must go into the US Consulate interview alone, which is conducted in English. She speaks fluent English. EVERYTHING was thoroughly covered. I was 100% confident. I waited outside. I was surprised when she came out about two minutes later with tears in her eyes. He took one look at the application and asked for MY passport, which she did not have, so he looked it up on the Consulate computer, and immediately denied her application and told her she needed to apply for a K-1 visa (immigrant based on marriage). He did not take one look at the documents she had; he did not "interview her." This was Chiangmai, and I was not allowed inside that day.

I got the guy's description and went back the next day, taking the application and documents with me. I went up to the window and spotted the guy, summoning him over. I asked him what the deal was. He said he wasn't supposed to discuss it with me, but would as a courtesy. He said it was purely his judgment. His duty was to determine if sufficient proof was offered that the applicant would leave the US at the time required, and he said he felt the burden had not been met. That was why he recommended the K-1. I said, "But hey, you did not even look at these documents. How could you form such a judgment?" I also told him a K-1 application would be fraudulent as it states an intention to immigrate to the US and my wife has neither the desire nor the intention to immigrate to the US. She wants to live with her family in Thailand. He said it was simple. She was married to me. I had just finished the Peace Corps and my visa was expiring soon. I had no replacement visa. I had no evidence of permanent establishment in Thailand other than being married. He told me that if I came back and established myself in Thailand and she reapplied a year after that, she might get it. "But," he said, "Right now there is no evidence that you will return to Thailand, and if you don't, she may not either."

So you see, it was all about me -- not her. Had she been single, I think she would have been granted the visa. Had she kept her maiden name and never told them she was married to an American, I think she would have gotten it (but that would be fraudulent).

The OP did not state his situation here. What visa? Are you here permanently? Are you on a retirement extension, or do you only have a work visa, which would be insufficient to establish permanence? The OP, having an address in the US, puts his girlfriend's application on shaky ground.

I have now cut off every connection I previously had with the US other than being a citizen. I am well established here in Thailand. I am quite sure my wife could now get the tourist visa with no problem. The only thing is, I never want to set foot on US soil again. It's not the place in which I grew up. Freedom there is now nil. TSA and the police are out of control. I have ten times as much freedom here in Thailand as has anyone in the US. Go back to the US?? No thanks!!

I might add that the single worst place I have ever been in Thailand is the US Embassy in Bangkok. It was like going into a prison. And the asshol_e officers treated me like I was a criminal. I don't need that kind of shit from anyone. And the rude way they in which they were treating the Thais made me ashamed to be an American. I'll take this opportunity to wish all the ICE agents down at the embassy a happy Macha Bucha and a Fukah Yukha.

You can thank all the people that come to the U.S. on a tourist visa, get married, and adjust status for the difficulty. IMO, they should close that loophole, then it wouldn't be such an issue getting a tourist visa if you happen to be in a relationship with an American.

[JLCrab]

The difference between the situations as reported by TM and GG is that in TM's case the Thai citizen seems to have acquired all those listed assets before meeting TM while in GG's case it seems she maybe acquired much of those assets as her reason to return to Thailand subsequent to meeting GG.

Edited February 14, 2014 by JLCrab

[Guitar God]

Thanks for the information TM. I've heard that having a relationship with someone who has citizenship in a country that a thai citizen is applying for a visa for raises the suspicion that they're trying to sneak them in.

I think the key will be to show we both have strong ties here and that I haven't lived in the US for 2 decades and have no residence there nor any inclination to move back there.

[Guitar God]

I wonder what percentage of Thai women who travel to the US for holiday, who own land, vehicles, are finishing an advanced degree in Thailand, have family here, a government job and interest in a Thai business they are a director of and just bought a new house here overstay their visa or never return? 0%, .001%?

The difference between the situations as reported by TM and GG is that in TM's case the Thai citizen seems to have acquired all those listed assets before meeting TM while in GG's case it seems she maybe acquired much of those assets as her reason to return to Thailand subsequent to meeting GG.

[JLCrab]

I wonder what percentage of Thai women who travel to the US for holiday, who own land, vehicles, are finishing an advanced degree in Thailand, have family here, a government job and interest in a Thai business they are a director of and just bought a new house here overstay their visa or never return? 0%, .001%?

The difference between the situations as reported by TM and GG is that in TM's case the Thai citizen seems to have acquired all those listed assets before meeting TM while in GG's case it seems she maybe acquired much of those assets as her reason to return to Thailand subsequent to meeting GG.

Beats me but your GF's Tourist visa was denied. Go figure.

[Shot]

I wonder what percentage of Thai women who travel to the US for holiday, who own land, vehicles, are finishing an advanced degree in Thailand, have family here, a government job and interest in a Thai business they are a director of and just bought a new house here overstay their visa or never return? 0%, .001%?

The difference between the situations as reported by TM and GG is that in TM's case the Thai citizen seems to have acquired all those listed assets before meeting TM while in GG's case it seems she maybe acquired much of those assets as her reason to return to Thailand subsequent to meeting GG.

Once again, its more about you, than her. Stay focused on the new application and your passport and visa information. Like Mac said, if you can wait to until you have your new visa, all the better.

Keys to success:

Have your papers in order, including your visa information and passport

Be honest, from start to finish

Be on time

Dress business casual

Smile

Be friendly, even if intimidated

[Guitar God]

I believe that, her sister with less ties, less income and no significant other applies for a tourist visa the same day and was approved. They only asked her three questions. Why she was going, what work her aunt did and when she was coming back. She is planning in visiting a Thai aunt and had all their paperwork, that he probably only glanced at.

[impulse]

I'm not trying to dogpile on you, but how long have you been together? If you're mentioned on the application, is the length of the relationship mentioned?

In 10 years of commuting to Beijing, I met many guys on the airplane that were going on their 2nd trip to China to get their long term online girlfriend's (now fiance's) visa straightened out at the %*&%$#*&^% Embassy. They had actually met her on their first 2 week trip to China, after corresponding online for many months and they were absolutely appalled that the folks at the Embassy would get in the way of a taxpayer's true love.

I always wished them good luck, but was quietly thinking they should probably thank the Embassy for protecting them from the 95% certain outcome. Can't say it's the same at the BKK Embassy, because I have no experience here.

And I'm not claiming that's your situation at all. But I believe the Embassy starts with that suspicion until it's proven otherwise.

Edited February 14, 2014 by impulse

[Guitar God]

I think the problem lies with her going with me to a country where I have citizenship. Their only concern is letting someone into a country where once she's in, it's difficult to get her out.

They're not protecting me from anything in this case, we're just going there on vacation just like the last dozen times we went on holiday together.

[Guitar God]

I have a new 90 day B visa and should have my 1year soon. My lawyer is submitting the work permit application Monday and I think he said we were two weeks or do away. We're not leaving until mid April and the Visa process seems to less than a week from interview to receiving the visa but I don't want to wait until the last minute to book flights and hotels as it will be around Easter weekend.

Should I wait for my 1 year or is a well documented presentation with the 90 day good enough?