Abhisit tells court emergency decree was unnecessary

[webfact]

'Abhisit' tells court emergency decree was unnecessary

BANGKOK 12 February 2014 (NNT) — Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva has told the Civil Court that the emergency decree recently issued by the Yingluck's administration is neither necessary nor reasonable.

According to Abhisit, the current People’s Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC)'s protests have been carried out under the rights stipulated in the constitution.

In regard to the protests by the red shirts in 2009, Abhisit stated that members of the United front of Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) were more violent than the PDRC's in their demonstrations — adding that the redshirt were also armed during their protests.

Furthermore, the Democrat Party leader said the current emergency decree was declared to deter those who did not see eye-to-eye with the government from speaking out. Mr. Abhisit also stated that the PDRC’s protest was a peaceful one that did not warrant the emergency decree issued by the government.


-- NNT 2014-02-13

[binjalin]

oh so taking over government buildings is ok? I think any civilized and developed nation would consider this an 'emergency' and undertake action. If anything this government have been too weak in not arresting the attempted coup leaders

[Scamper]

This emergency decree is indeed neither " necessary " nor " reasonable ". How do we know that ? Just look at how it's been administered. There is one leader who strayed from the site under detention. There was a foreigner who was threatened with deportation. Immigration said no. He stays. That's it. That's the sum total of the emergency decree. Absolutely no changes on the ground, apart from the fact that the police are now not just partially but completely invisible, and that the bomb attacks on the protesters go on undeterred. The administration has been busy, though. They just haven't done anything. How have they been busy ? With these daily McCarthy lists of enemies, that are constantly promised, then rescinded, then promised again. With Chalerm having friendly chats with media heads. With the administration now reportedly going after academics. So if an emergency decree's success is to be measured by what it accomplished, that is the sum total of its accomplishment - no change on the ground, but intimidation on the peripheries. But if you ask the question as to whether it is constitutional for a decree to be implemented by a caretaker administration on the cusp of an election against a movement that the Constitutional Court itself has ruled as constitutional - then that is an argument for the courts. And certainly not for Chalerm.

[djjamie]

Though I didn't agree with Abhisit's handling of the 2010 protests as he showed too much tolerance and patience with armed terrorists (though it did deserve a Noble Peace Prize for potentially saving 1000's of lives at the brutal hands of the UDD) he has got it right this time. That Oxford and Eton education is showing again. This decree (that coincidently came into effect 3 days before the election) was a tool to suppress the voice of the majority (according to polls 80% blame the govt for corruption in the rice scheme. 53% majority didn't vote (This is not the UK. It is Thailand)). It was used to ensure that the regimes was able to surrpress democracy, but this time in the name of the law. Abhisit knows this. Surprisingly more buildings were taken over during the decree than before it. So if anything the PTP should be sued for wasting the tax payers money AGAIN in implementing a decree that has done nothing that they purport it was designed to do. Pathetic really.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Rimmer
Reported post drawing off topic comparisons with another regime

[xminator]

Though I didn't agree with Abhisit's handling of the 2010 protests as he showed too much tolerance and patience with armed terrorists (though it did deserve a Noble Peace Prize for potentially saving 1000's of lives at the brutal hands of the UDD) he has got it right this time. That Oxford and Eton education is showing again. This decree (that coincidently came into effect 3 days before the election) was a tool to suppress the voice of the majority (according to polls 80% blame the govt for corruption in the rice scheme. 53% majority didn't vote (This is not the UK. It is Thailand)). It was used to ensure that the regimes was able to surrpress democracy, but this time in the name of the law. Abhisit knows this. Surprisingly more buildings were taken over during the decree than before it. So if anything the PTP should be sued for wasting the tax payers money AGAIN in implementing a decree that has done nothing that they purport it was designed to do. Pathetic really.

Another positive of a failed education system...

[spirit47]

Its undermining the right of demonstration, a tool to intimidate people. But it shows what you have to estimate from this Government, liberty, only for themself. We have to much "Outlaws" in the world and here, its worse. In the past, the thugs was more visible, now, most of them are fully integrated in the society. What did a farmer said a few days ago:"I never seen a big fish in prision". We get what we merit...

[Curt1591]

I think Abhisit has been hanging out with Suthep. It seems he has become delusional.

[Amavel]

Keeping people from voting is terrorism, not protesting. Destroying Thai economy is terrorism, not protesting. Shutting down Government offices is terrorism, not protesting. Demanding a popularly elected official step down, by a minority faction is terrorism, not protesting.

Voting is Democracy and protest, not terrorism. Voting is more powerful than a speeding bullet and recognized the world over.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[chainarong]

There are Good Laws and there are bad laws, the emergency law is the latter , to police this properly you need to arrest all of the protesters , you cannot single out individual people when there are thousands surrounding this person , all the protesters have broken the Law , it is a Law that cannot be carried out correctly, therefore it is a bad Law and is there only to make a statement, that we are doing something, when we are doing nothing, a typical PTP performance .

[casualbiker]

oh so taking over government buildings is ok? I think any civilized and developed nation would consider this an 'emergency' and undertake action. If anything this government have been too weak in not arresting the attempted coup leaders

In any civilized and developed nation the Police would have been working . And stopped them ... NO?

And your last point is correct .. they have imposed the SOE but not utilized it.. therefore WHY implement it in the first place?

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[BlueNoseCodger]

This emergency decree is indeed neither " necessary " nor " reasonable ". How do we know that ? Just look at how it's been administered. There is one leader who strayed from the site under detention. There was a foreigner who was threatened with deportation. Immigration said no. He stays. That's it. That's the sum total of the emergency decree. Absolutely no changes on the ground, apart from the fact that the police are now not just partially but completely invisible, and that the bomb attacks on the protesters go on undeterred. The administration has been busy, though. They just haven't done anything. How have they been busy ? With these daily McCarthy lists of enemies, that are constantly promised, then rescinded, then promised again. With Chalerm having friendly chats with media heads. With the administration now reportedly going after academics. So if an emergency decree's success is to be measured by what it accomplished, that is the sum total of its accomplishment - no change on the ground, but intimidation on the peripheries. But if you ask the question as to whether it is constitutional for a decree to be implemented by a caretaker administration on the cusp of an election against a movement that the Constitutional Court itself has ruled as constitutional - then that is an argument for the courts. And certainly not for Chalerm.

Imagine what would have happened if the emergency decree was not in place.

See you're logic assumes what would have happen if the emergency decree was not in place, happened anyway. But that's specious logic.

With these daily McCarthy lists of enemies

Funny, why are these companies ashamed of what they did that it needs to be hidden? That somehow revealing to Thai people what they did is McCarthyist!

But if you ask the question as to whether it is constitutional for a decree to be implemented by a caretaker administration on the cusp of an election against a movement that the Constitutional Court itself has ruled as constitutional - then that is an argument for the courts

The Constitutional Court already ruled, and it is perfectly legal for the government to use the state of emergency power in that situation, and that Sutheps protests should be dealt with by the usual criminal court.

Edited February 13, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[BlueNoseCodger]

So for example, here's is Suthep in Dusit Thani, I assume the one next to Lumpini park, identified from the photo of the room he stayed in.

Now he has an arrest warrant out against him for insurrection. So if Dusit Thani is currently harboring him, then they are aiding a fujitive which would be a crime.

There's also the matter of the murder indictment for 2010. He's handed letters to the court which enabled him to stall his indictment. I think the court should release those letters, since this indictment has been delayed several times, and really trying to overthrow the democratically elected government is not grounds for delaying a murder indictment. Since the criminal court has already approved the insurrection arrest warrant, it follows that insurrection is not grounds to avoid a court date! Perhaps the legal basis of those letters should be re-examined in the context of the insurrection charge.

Is interfereing in his political protest if he faces his court date? No, because the Constitutional Court said that Suthep's protests should be dealt with by the normal Criminal Court, not them, and the Criminal Court has already approved the insurrection arrest warrant.

Its not the Spanish Inquisition, or Gestapo or McCathyism or any other hyperbole, it's just law enforcement. He should have stood for election instead of trying to destroy democracy. He chose the bad path, he needs to face the consequences of that.

[TallPalm]

Better safe than sorry though - if they hadn't imposed the emergency decree and it all went pear shaped (pro vs anti government protesters - riots, looting, blood on the streets etc) then you'd be reveling in the situation, so I don't think there's any room for criticism Mr. Abhisit

[mightyatom]

oh so taking over government buildings is ok? I think any civilized and developed nation would consider this an 'emergency' and undertake action. If anything this government have been too weak in not arresting the attempted coup leaders

Why back a government that you openly criticize?

[SamMunich]

Of course the emergency decree was unnecessary!

This is not about any emergency, this is about politics! And this is about threatening without actually using violence on the one side and face saving/loosing face on the other side. This emergency decree is nothing but a tool to frighten people away from supporting the democracy leaders fighting policy corruption and vote-buying. Using this decreee is already a corruption/mis-use of the legal system.

And entering the compound of a ministry, which is paid for and suposed to serve the people, is still a world away from burning and looting the way it happened in 2010. Also trying to convince (as opposed to coerce) the staff of a ministry to take a few days off isn't per se something criminal.

[seajae]

bnc, there is a difference between what you think the law means and what it actually means, I really think you have been hanging out around tarit and chalerm too long, you seem to have picked up the same thinking problems they have, poor bugger. Hotels provide rooms for rent so if someone rents one they are not aiding a fugitive, they are accepting a paying customer unless you think that accepting payments form people you dont personally like is against the law as well.

[rubl]

In a surprising move head CMPO Chaelerm came to support Abhisit with his statements that the protesters hardly number 4000

[transam]

Look where his decisions ended up.........

[Rimmer]

Reported libellous post and replies removed

[ianf]

Keeping people from voting is terrorism, not protesting. Destroying Thai economy is terrorism, not protesting. Shutting down Government offices is terrorism, not protesting. Demanding a popularly elected official step down, by a minority faction is terrorism, not protesting.

Voting is Democracy and protest, not terrorism. Voting is more powerful than a speeding bullet and recognized the world over.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Voting in itself is not necessarily democracy. Democracy goes much much deeper than that. I don't want to waste my time giving you a lesson in politics but democracy is about the rule of law without which there is no democracy.

The current administration is not democratic - it is autocratic. That's why the protesters want to put an end to this 'sham' democracy and that's why they tried to stop the voting when the whole thing was being directed by an autocrat from Dubai. You know people like Hun Sen and Saddam and Mugabe had elections. But were they democratic? Far from it. Thaksin's model is the Hun Sen/Saddam/Mugabe/Pinochet model of Democracy: Not the British/Swiss/German/French/etc etc etc. So please think more deeply about this issue before posting nonsense.

Edited February 13, 2014 by ianf

[moonao]

LOL, is this Abhisit character still in politics ? He should have left months ago. No one respects him, no one votes for him. He has been made a fool of repeatedly and consistently throughout his career.

Isn't this the same guy that under his emergency decree, 90 people were murdered? and now he is up against murder charges .

Whats unnecessary is Abhisits continued involvement in politics.

[hansnl]

Keeping people from voting is terrorism, not protesting. Destroying Thai economy is terrorism, not protesting. Shutting down Government offices is terrorism, not protesting. Demanding a popularly elected official step down, by a minority faction is terrorism, not protesting.

Voting is Democracy and protest, not terrorism. Voting is more powerful than a speeding bullet and recognized the world over.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Democracy, Sir, is not solely voting.

Democracy is governing in name of the people, or if you want, BY the people FOR the people.

If a government and a parliament are not governing for ALL the people, but only for those who voted for them, then that is not democracy.

A true democrat can protest, by word, by letter, by protest, and eventually by hindering the government in it's wrongdoings.

That sir, is not terrorism but democracy, a working democracy.

Terrorism is destroying the country, by whatever means in the short term but moreover in the long term.

As burning down buildings, destroying and looting of other people's property, killing opponents, etc,etc,etc.

And as governing the country for your own gain and power.

And a real democrat does not wait for the next elections, but acts now.

And preferably does not act as some other protesters did some time ago, spurred on by their leaders.

That sir, was terrorism!

[CIHUAHUA]

There are Good Laws and there are bad laws, the emergency law is the latter , to police this properly you need to arrest all of the protesters , you cannot single out individual people when there are thousands surrounding this person , all the protesters have broken the Law , it is a Law that cannot be carried out correctly, therefore it is a bad Law and is there only to make a statement, that we are doing something, when we are doing nothing, a typical PTP performance .

Yes, you can make all the laws you want but who will enforce them here in Thailand? There are traffic laws but I have never in twenty years seen a policeman stop a driver and give them a ticket. I've only seen them gathered at an intersection to hand out tickets for not helmet.

[tingtongteesood]

The funny thing is, if PT call for the rule of law then it means that they should follow the rule of law themselves which of course they do not want to do. And if they start arresting and imprisoning people whilst Taksin and the terrorist red leaders made MP's remain free, and Noppadon isn't serving his sentence, and Chalerm's son is still a free man etc. - there is too much dirt in their own house that they just aren't willing to clean up. Get all these listed and any other PT's who should be serving sentences in the Bangkok Hilton where they belong, THEN we will support the arrests of protest leaders in 3 or 4 years time. Fair's fair. No hippocrisy please...

[rubl]

LOL, is this Abhisit character still in politics ? He should have left months ago. No one respects him, no one votes for him. He has been made a fool of repeatedly and consistently throughout his career.

Isn't this the same guy that under his emergency decree, 90 people were murdered? and now he is up against murder charges .

Whats unnecessary is Abhisits continued involvement in politics.

To answer your musings, yes this Abhisit character is still in politics and not likely to leave. The 'no one respects him' is your opinion, the 'no one votes for him' is correct for the 2nd of February elections as he wasn't a candidate. As for 'making a fool of himself', your opinion again.

Now as for the 'murders', indeed 92 people were killed during the March - May 2010 riots, including 16 non-red-shirts. Abhisit and Suthep are 'obviously' guilty as hell and charged with 'pre-meditated murder' as private person rather than in his role of PM at that time.

What's unnecessary for you seems not unnecessary for others.

IMHO of course

[drand11]

Yes, you shut down 25% of voting booths. Hardly necessary. Add on all of the Suthep threats and attacks, of course emergency decree makes sense.

[rubl]

Yes, you shut down 25% of voting booths. Hardly necessary. Add on all of the Suthep threats and attacks, of course emergency decree makes sense.

Add on all the attacks by unknown on the anti-government protesters and voila, we have a good reason for the Emergency Decree. It's only to protect the protesters

BTW 25% of voting booths? Makes you wonder how come, 20 million managed to vote on the 2nd of February

Edited February 13, 2014 by rubl

[BlueNoseCodger]

Democracy, Sir, is not solely voting.

Democracy is governing in name of the people, or if you want, BY the people FOR the people.

If a government and a parliament are not governing for ALL the people, but only for those who voted for them, then that is not democracy.

A true democrat can protest, by word, by letter, by protest, and eventually by hindering the government in it's wrongdoings.

That sir, is not terrorism but democracy, a working democracy.

Terrorism is destroying the country, by whatever means in the short term but moreover in the long term.

As burning down buildings, destroying and looting of other people's property, killing opponents, etc,etc,etc.

And as governing the country for your own gain and power.

And a real democrat does not wait for the next elections, but acts now.

And preferably does not act as some other protesters did some time ago, spurred on by their leaders.

That sir, was terrorism!

Make no mistake, democracy is rule by the majority to benefit the many, and not rule by a few to benefit a few.

If you want to be elected, then you need to change your policies so they benefit more people, and thus your group can be part of a bigger many.

If a government and a parliament are not governing for ALL the people, but only for those who voted for them, then that is not democracy.

That's false, you can't please everyone all of the time and to pretend democracy does this or it isn't democracy is patently false. No democracy pleases all people all the time!

Terrorism is destroying the country, by whatever means in the short term but moreover in the long term.

No, terrorism is inducing political change using terror, not any other means. So for example, shooting people to control them, is terrorism. Every time a military coup takes power at gun point, that's terrorism. If you authorize live fire against protestors, that is terrorist too.

You can't describe what Suthep did as democratic, so you seek to redefine democracy as what Suthep did!

He took a mob into the capital, with armed guards and tried to seize power from the elected government. Threatening to prosecute anyone who disobeyed him, threatening to kidnap and detain the prime minister until she resigned. Your guards opening fire on people for wanting to vote! Your mob blocking people from voting at the polling stations. In the south we can see how phoney your election wins are, when the elections are clearly not run independantly because they can be shut down so easily!

He should be in jail right now. Him, the corrupt people in state office that are still trying to undermine democracy, and the financial backers that tried to grab power for themselves.

Edited February 13, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[rubl]

Make no mistake, democracy is rule by the many to benefit the many, and not rule by few to benefit few.

If you want to be elected, then you need to change your policies so they benefit more people, and thus your group can be part of a bigger many.

Totally agree, and that's why the Thaksin thinks Pheu Thai acts government has to go.

[SICHONSTEVE]

I think Abhisit has been hanging out with Suthep. It seems he has become delusional.

So you think that the emergency was warranted - did the PDRC pose a risk to national security?