racism among expats in thailand

[wym]

He may be wrong if we're going back two thousand years but I think it's fair to say he's talking about the enslavement of Africans.

Yes sure, there may have been a few African chiefs who may have hopped on the bandwagon after cottoning on to the fact that there was scratch to be earned by selling their brethren to the slavers but when all is said and done, the white man kicked it all off as regards this most high profile example of slavery.

I find it highly distasteful when white people attempt to deny the past. As distasteful as when others deny the Holocaust occurred

Maybe they want to assuage their guilt, maybe they just want to claim that the problems some blacks have had really stem from their attitudes and have nothing to do with the obstacles placed in their way by those at the top of the power structures in Western society; I don't give a toss.

Actually not at all.

The relatively modern slave trade - exporting blacks out of Africa - was actually initially developed by Arab traders.

But like all foreigners they were mostly involved in the purchase and shipping side of things.

The actual capturing and bringing to the ports was done by blacks within the interior.

They had been capturing and enslaving other tribes as part of their war practices long before any foreigners showed up.

It wasn't a "few" opportunistic chiefs - but a systematic part of the culture there.

Whites came onto the scene pretty late, but with the empire and the beginnings of global trade, certainly provided the incentives to greatly expand the business and make it more systematic.

All of this has little to do with racism.

Lots of whites were sentenced to slavery by whites both before and concurrently with the African trade.

It was just a normal part of business in most locations and cultures around the world up until a few hundred years ago.

The Quakers were the only Christian religion to start to make a fuss about it, and it was white abolitionists that raised humanity's awareness that it was morally wrong.

We all now continue to work to raise humanity's consciousness about such evils, and we need to do it together, not continuing to play the historical blame game looking at "whites" or "blacks" or "Asians" as if these were meaningful monolithic blocks with common traits.

Race doesn't even really exist from a scientific POV, it's an arbitrary social construct.

Nothing to be gained using it to over-generalize about PEOPLE.

[kimbathewhitelion]

Most black crime is perpetrated on blacks, not whites, and isn't racially motivated.

The US certainly does have more serious racism problems than Thailand, and more than most other countries.

But none of this is the topic at hand.

Thailand's "racism" is generally in thought and speech, not so much in serious ways wrt jobs, housing etc

Not to say it doesn't exist, it does and is deeply ingrained, they don't think they're anything wrong with it and have no plans to change it.

And not our business to try to change it, except where it affects us personally.

And no I'm not talking about "racism" against farang, double-pricing and other scamming BS, just idiotically silly to get your privileged knickers in a twist about that.

But if you teach in a school and see that a highly qualified non-white teacher gets turned down in favor of a white no-nothing, go ahead and speak up about it if you're brave. Most likely a Don Quixote move, but more power to you.

So yes the Thais are "racist", and of course many foreigners of all nationalities are as well, racism is everywhere in the world.

Trying to argue which is "more" or "less" is pretty pointless. . .

Just to clarify, since they're obviously so many USA haters out there, the US isn't more racist than others, just more noticeable due to being the most diverse nation in the world & with a media outlet which loves to glorify itself in such hate. Asia is extremely racist, just have to open your eyes, Japan, China OMG. Then there's Europe, the UK....anyone been to Wales. Best to just leave at an even balance with some more than others showing up in media all the time.

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[Lucifer]

why are most of the 'farangs' here bent on trying to make me feel the problem is actually with the Thais when we all know

the west initiated slavery and slave trade

If you sometimes find that white people, not americans perhaps, are hostile, then consider that such and incredibly ignorant statement as that may be the cause.

I hope you realize that slave trading has been done in all cultures, across all continents since the dawn of mankind. The worst slave traders in history are by far, and I really mean BY FAR, the muslim arabs who took millions of slaves from christian countries along with africans and whoever they could get their hands on.

White people were the first to abolish slavery and I hope you realize that slavery still exists in many countries.

In any case, as a European white I have nothing to do with slavery 200 years ago in America and your stupid attempt to lump me in with some crime in the past makes me think you're unfit to be a teacher.

Quit whining, the world isn't fair and stop playing the victim card all the while black people in America overwhelmingly attack, rob and kill white people TODAY.

Quit whining"? He wasn't whining about slavery. He just said that the racism he's experienced most acutely in THIS country has been that from expats. I agree because I've found that to be true.

You accuse him of playing the victim card and then get defensive as though he's been pointing a finger at you personally - who's playing the victim card??

I suppose you'll be saying that you've experienced racism from the Thais because they've referred to you as a farang.

As for your last comment, <deleted> are you smoking? White people attack, rob and kill blacks too. Or didn't you heat about those 3 white supremacists in Texas and what they did to James Byrd, Jr in 1998.

They tied the guy to a truck and dragged him three miles along a road until his head was ripped off . . . simply because he was black

If you don't know what you're talking about, you really should keep your mouth shut

Well said.

I also feel a few white people surpress their racist feelings whilst living in their Country. However, when they come to a Country where people (more) freely express their views, out pours all the racist feelings they've been harbouring all these years.

[kimbathewhitelion]

"White People"....so you're a bigot. Really doesn't matter what anyone may refer, you can't single out one people since all people, all civilizations within history are guilty. The West, humor....which West? Your hate is intensified to put "white people" & "Holocaust" in the same line. Even the Church has committed this act of which than was considered a norm.

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And you're an idiot.

I was specifically talking about the enslavement of Africans. It was written in clear English.

The rest of your post doesn't even warrant comment

it doesn't matter, you can't single out people with such a argument, the act is racist in itself. The idiot you see is....simply yourself but only until you see the truth in your logic.

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[MrHammer]

History aside, I find it extremely offensive that someone should try to make me feel guilty for what someone completely unrelated to me did hundreds of years ago. How can I in any way be responsible or feel guilt for that? Explain me that.

That would be the same as if I accused all blacks of being cannibals which is in fact still a practice in many parts of the African continent such as by General Buttnaked (google it) from Liberia who ate human babies before a battle.

Claiming 'white people' of today to have in any part of slavery or to feel guilt for it, is the same as if I claim blacks to have a part of General Buttnaked's cannibalism.

Picture of General Buttnaked below (he is a real person):

That being said, Thailand attracts a certain demographic of all races that is filled with years of feeling slighted and overlooked. My guess is that the racism the OP has experienced is no different than how a Brit may attack a random German.

[wym]

Just to clarify, since they're obviously so many USA haters out there, the US isn't more racist than others, just more noticeable due to being the most diverse nation in the world & with a media outlet which loves to glorify itself in such hate. Asia is extremely racist, just have to open your eyes, Japan, China OMG. Then there's Europe, the UK....anyone been to Wales. Best to just leave at an even balance with some more than others showing up in media all the time.

It's very easy for a country to avoid being called racist if they're largely homogenous; many countries avoid the problem by simply not allowing outsiders to immigrate.

Is that "worse" racism or just smart?

Those countries that have a wide mix of races and nationalities living together in the same areas are the ones with a challenge - and it certainly does create challenges.

It seems to me that out the large developed nations, few continue to have racial problems as large as the US.

And many sectors of the US population are certainly not working toward greater harmony and integration, in fact I'd say the right there (which borders on fascism compared to the rest of the developed world) is actively working against those goals.

Those European countries that have only recently (this century) begun allowing non-white immigration are only just starting to figure out how to do it, but it seems at the official level they're trying harder than most locations in the US.

The fact that INDIVIDUALS may have hateful attitudes is more prevalent there is simply that their culture hasn't had as much time to change.

But bottom line as I said before, racism does exist everywhere, and trying to say X is more and Y is less racist isn't a very productive topic of debate.

Edited February 24, 2014 by wym

[NHT]

. . .

It's very easy for a country to avoid being called racist if they're largely homogenous; many countries avoid the problem by simply not allowing outsiders to immigrate.

Is that "worse" racism or just smart?

And you seriously believe they escape of being called "racist"?

Those countries that have a wide mix of races and nationalities living together in the same areas are the ones with a challenge - and it certainly does create challenges.

It seems to me that out the large developed nations, few continue to have racial problems as large as the US.

What?

And many sectors of the US population are certainly not working toward greater harmony and integration, in fact I'd say the right there (which borders on fascism compared to the rest of the developed world) is actively working against those goals.

Are you drunk?

Those European countries that have only recently (this century) begun allowing non-white immigration are only just starting to figure out how to do it, but it seems at the official level they're trying harder than most locations in the US.

Apart from repeating yourself, you've got a heck of "seeming" going on, dude!

The fact that INDIVIDUALS may have hateful attitudes is more prevalent there is simply that their culture hasn't had as much time to change.

Can you make up your mind what it is, a "fact" or another "seem"?

But bottom line as I said before, racism does exist everywhere, and trying to say X is more and Y is less racist isn't a very productive topic of debate.

Who drew the bottom line of X-racist >Y-racist?

I read your ... whatever, 3 times, and I am still

Do you read what you write, yourself, or do you just allow your fingers to punch away any ...! Gee, it's getting really worse in here. But - I admit. You're just another "expert". How big is your Facebook idiots circle? Boy, this world faces some serious issues. (I hope you haven't reproduced yourself yet and, won't get a chance).

<deleted>*k

+++

Have another beer.

[NHT]

"White People"....so you're a bigot. Really doesn't matter what anyone may refer, you can't single out one people since all people, all civilizations within history are guilty. The West, humor....which West? Your hate is intensified to put "white people" & "Holocaust" in the same line. Even the Church has committed this act of which than was considered a norm.

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And you're an idiot.

I was specifically talking about the enslavement of Africans. It was written in clear English.

The rest of your post doesn't even warrant comment

it doesn't matter, you can't single out people with such a argument, the act is racist in itself. The idiot you see is....simply yourself but only until you see the truth in your logic.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Until he/she sees the truth in his/her logic?

So you agree with, but accuse of ignorance of the truth?

Why would he/she defend his/her logic without truth?

Could it be, perhaps, you meant "... the wrong of your logic?"

My apology, English is my 5th language, only.

[HardenedSoul]

"White People"....so you're a bigot. Really doesn't matter what anyone may refer, you can't single out one people since all people, all civilizations within history are guilty. The West, humor....which West? Your hate is intensified to put "white people" & "Holocaust" in the same line. Even the Church has committed this act of which than was considered a norm.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

And you're an idiot.

I was specifically talking about the enslavement of Africans. It was written in clear English.

The rest of your post doesn't even warrant comment

it doesn't matter, you can't single out people with such a argument, the act is racist in itself. The idiot you see is....simply yourself but only until you see the truth in your logic.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

erm . . . yeah . . . whatever, Yoda.

[HardenedSoul]

He may be wrong if we're going back two thousand years but I think it's fair to say he's talking about the enslavement of Africans.

Yes sure, there may have been a few African chiefs who may have hopped on the bandwagon after cottoning on to the fact that there was scratch to be earned by selling their brethren to the slavers but when all is said and done, the white man kicked it all off as regards this most high profile example of slavery.

I find it highly distasteful when white people attempt to deny the past. As distasteful as when others deny the Holocaust occurred

Maybe they want to assuage their guilt, maybe they just want to claim that the problems some blacks have had really stem from their attitudes and have nothing to do with the obstacles placed in their way by those at the top of the power structures in Western society; I don't give a toss.

Actually not at all.

The relatively modern slave trade - exporting blacks out of Africa - was actually initially developed by Arab traders.

But like all foreigners they were mostly involved in the purchase and shipping side of things.

The actual capturing and bringing to the ports was done by blacks within the interior.

They had been capturing and enslaving other tribes as part of their war practices long before any foreigners showed up.

It wasn't a "few" opportunistic chiefs - but a systematic part of the culture there.

Whites came onto the scene pretty late, but with the empire and the beginnings of global trade, certainly provided the incentives to greatly expand the business and make it more systematic.

All of this has little to do with racism.

Lots of whites were sentenced to slavery by whites both before and concurrently with the African trade.

It was just a normal part of business in most locations and cultures around the world up until a few hundred years ago.

The Quakers were the only Christian religion to start to make a fuss about it, and it was white abolitionists that raised humanity's awareness that it was morally wrong.

We all now continue to work to raise humanity's consciousness about such evils, and we need to do it together, not continuing to play the historical blame game looking at "whites" or "blacks" or "Asians" as if these were meaningful monolithic blocks with common traits.

Race doesn't even really exist from a scientific POV, it's an arbitrary social construct.

Nothing to be gained using it to over-generalize about PEOPLE.

So what you're saying is the white man more or less turbocharged the trade by globalizing it, right?

That's worse.

Still, the thread isn't about the origins of the slave trade is it? It's about the shit the OP claims to have been subjected to by Western - usually white - expats.

That it is so acute - for him - in a country where the locals are supposed to be the racists just lends further credence to the notion that the quality of the expats here leaves a lot to be desired.

[wym]

I don't think anyone's questioning that.

[HardenedSoul]

I don't think anyone's questioning that.

Of course they bloody well are . . .that's why the threads run 8 pages long.

[wym]

What, someone's claiming that most foreigners living in Thailand are high quality human beings?

I didn't see any of that, and wouldn't consider such a statement worth arguing about.

I've also stated that it's not worth arguing about where racism is better or worse. Impossible to sufficiently define the terms nor quantify the data.

[yanyk]

there is actually nothing you will call a white man to get him pissed off

and the 'idiots' among them know that. but there is actually a word you will a black man to provoke him

and the white people know the word and most of them have decided to move to Thailand where they can use the word as they wish..something they would think twice before doing in their home countries..TOPIC CLOSED

[Nautilus05]

People are going to hate me for this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4f9zR5yzY

[kimbathewhitelion]

"White People"....so you're a bigot. Really doesn't matter what anyone may refer, you can't single out one people since all people, all civilizations within history are guilty. The West, humor....which West? Your hate is intensified to put "white people" & "Holocaust" in the same line. Even the Church has committed this act of which than was considered a norm.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

And you're an idiot.

I was specifically talking about the enslavement of Africans. It was written in clear English.

The rest of your post doesn't even warrant comment

it doesn't matter, you can't single out people with such a argument, the act is racist in itself. The idiot you see is....simply yourself but only until you see the truth in your logic.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Until he/she sees the truth in his/her logic?

So you agree with, but accuse of ignorance of the truth?

Why would he/she defend his/her logic without truth?

Could it be, perhaps, you meant "... the wrong of your logic?"

My apology, English is my 5th language, only.

Yes. Also accept the topic is closed.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[HardenedSoul]

there is actually nothing you will call a white man to get him pissed off

and the 'idiots' among them know that. but there is actually a word you will a black man to provoke him

and the white people know the word and most of them have decided to move to Thailand where they can use the word as they wish..something they would think twice before doing in their home countries..TOPIC CLOSED

Plenty of racial slurs for white men but why, oh why would you wanna drop to their level?

[benalibina]

there is actually nothing you will call a white man to get him pissed off

and the 'idiots' among them know that. but there is actually a word you will a black man to provoke him

and the white people know the word and most of them have decided to move to Thailand where they can use the word as they wish..something they would think twice before doing in their home countries..TOPIC CLOSED

Plenty of racial slurs for white men but why, oh why would you wanna drop to their level?

For racist white men...............drop to their racist level.

Thank you !

[maxme]

Personally most of the racism I have witnessed in Thailand has been from Europeans, although I don´t find that so strange. Integration doesn´t work so well in Europe as it does in the US or Canada and it sure creates a lot of tension which the tourists bring with them to other countries for some reason.

[grandmasterchang]

People are going to hate me for this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4f9zR5yzY

Well, I posted that video a few pages ago, but personally I can't watch it enough. It also seemed to stifle a few idiots back then, so it's probably a good time to re-introduce it!

Edited February 25, 2014 by grandmasterchang

[NHT]

Personally most of the racism I have witnessed in Thailand has been from Europeans, although I don´t find that so strange. Integration doesn´t work so well in Europe as it does in the US or Canada and it sure creates a lot of tension which the tourists bring with them to other countries for some reason.

I can't remember a place in Europe, where they'd charge the locals 100, and Farrangs - 1000!

Just to start off with.

Boy, if "T" doesn't stink racist all over, then I call myself the Pope!

Let me guess, you are either a yank or a can, or, maybe a yank in the can. Perhaps, a can opening a yank? Anyway, you're just dumb and we forgive you! Just stay in Thailand, you fit perfectly!

Edited February 25, 2014 by NHT

[maxme]

Personally most of the racism I have witnessed in Thailand has been from Europeans, although I don´t find that so strange. Integration doesn´t work so well in Europe as it does in the US or Canada and it sure creates a lot of tension which the tourists bring with them to other countries for some reason.

I can't remember a place in Europe, where they'd charge the locals 100, and Farrangs - 1000!

Just to start off with.

Boy, if "T" doesn't stink racist all over, then I call myself the Pope!

Let me guess, you are either a yank or a can, or, maybe a yank in the can. Perhaps, a can opening a yank? Anyway, you're just dumb and we forgive you! Just stay in Thailand, you fit perfectly!

My turn... Only a low-educated person would resort to personal insults as you did. If you would have bothered to have read some of my earlier posts on the subject, in other threads, you would see that I disagree with these kinds of extortions but what do you really expect from a developing country such as this? Just take a look at its political platform.

However Europeans claim to be the more educated and more civilized people on this planet, then tell me why they cannot behave civilized? In general Thais live like it was the 50s or the 60s, do you remember hiw Europeans or Americans were at that time?

Thailand doesn't have a functioning government much less a police force. What are the Europeans excuse?

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Edited February 25, 2014 by maxme

[Semeya]

He may be wrong if we're going back two thousand years but I think it's fair to say he's talking about the enslavement of Africans.

Yes sure, there may have been a few African chiefs who may have hopped on the bandwagon after cottoning on to the fact that there was scratch to be earned by selling their brethren to the slavers but when all is said and done, the white man kicked it all off as regards this most high profile example of slavery.

I find it highly distasteful when white people attempt to deny the past. As distasteful as when others deny the Holocaust occurred

Maybe they want to assuage their guilt, maybe they just want to claim that the problems some blacks have had really stem from their attitudes and have nothing to do with the obstacles placed in their way by those at the top of the power structures in Western society; I don't give a toss.

Actually not at all.

The relatively modern slave trade - exporting blacks out of Africa - was actually initially developed by Arab traders.

But like all foreigners they were mostly involved in the purchase and shipping side of things.

The actual capturing and bringing to the ports was done by blacks within the interior.

They had been capturing and enslaving other tribes as part of their war practices long before any foreigners showed up.

It wasn't a "few" opportunistic chiefs - but a systematic part of the culture there.

Whites came onto the scene pretty late, but with the empire and the beginnings of global trade, certainly provided the incentives to greatly expand the business and make it more systematic.

All of this has little to do with racism.

Lots of whites were sentenced to slavery by whites both before and concurrently with the African trade.

It was just a normal part of business in most locations and cultures around the world up until a few hundred years ago.

The Quakers were the only Christian religion to start to make a fuss about it, and it was white abolitionists that raised humanity's awareness that it was morally wrong.

We all now continue to work to raise humanity's consciousness about such evils, and we need to do it together, not continuing to play the historical blame game looking at "whites" or "blacks" or "Asians" as if these were meaningful monolithic blocks with common traits.

Race doesn't even really exist from a scientific POV, it's an arbitrary social construct.

Nothing to be gained using it to over-generalize about PEOPLE.

I'm thinking of: Johann Friedrich Blumenbach classification of what is called human races.

[farang000999]

OP was more than likely a troll and not even black.

[kannot]

Expats are just copying the locals to appear more Thai

[willyumiii]

I think what you are experiencing is a reaction to the racist, xenophobic attitude of most Thais towards non Thais.

Unless your passa Thai is rather fluent, you have no clue how often Thais are mocking and criticizing you.

They truly believe they are better than anyone who is not Thai.

Why this belief is false and totally unfounded would be a good topic for a new thread..I won't start on it here!

Many expats, once they realize what Thais really say and feel about them, react in a negative way.

Nobody likes to be degraded or abused.

I have often said that I would like to claim that I am not predigest toward anyone.

But I can not honestly say that....

I truly dislike anyone who is a racist or a bigot.

[Mystery]

There are racists in every race... And amazing people in every race... One just has to pick the good ones and drop the idiots ? I've been here 12 years and I think it takes a little longer than 5 months to make such a generalisation with all due respect of course!!! Generalisations are just harmful in general as all people are unique ?

i have stayed in this country for just 5 months, and i have noticed that the greatest amount of racism surprisingly

exist among expats..Thais will readily accept you if you are a good person . this is my personal experience, i am black living in Thailand.

i have gotten stares from the locals but nothing serious, but i have experienced the highest form of racism among expats.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Mystery

[GuestHouse]

I don't see what the argument is about.

There is plenty of evidence in posts here on TVF of racism, points of view expressed about people of other races in essentially anonymous posts that I'm quite certain the poster would not repeat in a face to face conversation if the people they speak of were present.

I don't for a moment believe all expats (immigrants) to Thailand are racist, but there are many who are, and there is frequently evidence of their presence here on TVF.

[MJP]

If you're a jolly, open, slightly whacky/extrovert, Thai's will readily accept you. If you're a suspicious, defensive, obnoxious type . . . they won't. Bit like anywhere.

[Shot]

Edited February 9, 2016 by Shot