A new day in Ukraine: Political uncertainty sweeps divided nation

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed.

[jamhar]

"I love your hypocritical American way if thinking. It's ok to invade countries across the other side of continent under pretext to protect Americans , yet it is not ok for another country to do the same"

So are you arguing that Russia does have a right to invade? and How was Russia in threaten as a justification?

Just trying to follow your reasoning.....

[Jingthing]

Putin thinks he's the dictator of a super power. He's delusional.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts deleted. The topic is about the Ukraine and Russia. It's not about the US and Iran or Syria.

Continued off-topic posting will earn suspensions.

[Basil B]

Seems Russia more to the point Putin, are coming to their senses and a ready to talk, Russia acted like a bully boy, and alienated a lot of countries.

Russia does have legitimate concerns but the way they went about this was totally out of order.

• Russia does rightfully have concerns for Russians living in the Ukraine but they were Russians who moved there to dominate and control the country under USSR dictatorship.
• Russia does rightfully have concerns for it security but you do not solve them by beating up your neighbors.
• Russia does not have the right to walk into another country and annex part of it even if they had gifted the Crimea to the Ukraine years ago.
• If Russia wants to continue to use bases in the Crimea then the should talk to the Ukraine, not bully them into submission.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Basil B

[Basil B]

Diplomatic efforts to ease tensions in Ukraine are gathering pace as US Secretary of State John Kerry and Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov prepare to hold crucial talks in Paris.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26444747

That it's, Henry Snowdon on the next flight back to the USA, and Russia to keep the Ukraine.

[folium]

Because the Ukrainian people know better, comrade.

Would you like your country to be invaded by a foreign dictator?

Crimea has been independent and had its own president.

Almost 60% are Russian.

Ukrainian people really do not get to voice their opinion on Crimea, even though they have been trying to control it for years

Also if Ukrainian people did care a little about anyone or anything else, perhaps they would not be passing law to outlaw a language of large portion of its population

And if it was indeed a foreign dictator, perhaps the dictator would occupy the capital to start with, do not you think?

Crimea was last truly independent in 1475 when the Crimean Tatars came under Ottoman control. Are you suggesting that Crimea returns to the Tatars as they were the last independent rulers of the peninsula?

Would you like to remind us why the majority of today's population are Russian? Whatever happened to all those Tatars and other ethnic groups such as the Armenians, Bulgarians and Greeks?

You seem to confuse autonomy and independence. Crimea is an autonomous Republic within Ukraine and has been since 1954. Crimea is thus no different from other autonomous regions such as Sicily or Sardinia within Italy, or the Azores and Madeira within Portugal.

re the Russian language suppression canard here's a suitably Kremlin oriented media outlet (another one in English no less):

http://en.ria.ru/world/20140303/188063675/Ukraines-2012-Language-Law-to-Stay-Until-New-Bill-Ready--Turchynov.html

So there's another piece of after the event justification that holds no water.

The dictator Putin has started with invading the one place in Ukraine where he already had troops on the ground. If there is a next step it will be pushing into the area around Donetsk and Kharkiv to "relieve the suffering of brother Russians threatened by advancing fascist elements". Why should Putin need to take out Kiev now that his puppet Yuschenko has been chased out of there? It's also a long way from the nearest entry point from Russia.

A different question. Does Putin have the right to invade Kazakhstan , Lithuania, Latvia or Estonia given their sizeable Russian minorities?

You asking questions because you do not know? Or because you once again planning to make up history and facts?

Are you also confused between minority and majority ?

Crimea has 60% Russian population as already posted too many times, that makes them majority.

Estonia and all other states mentioned by you, Russians are in minority ie half of 60% if not less.

So you really going to pose a question Russia would invade them???

A vast majority in Kazakh and Uzbekistan and so on can hardly speak Russian , because they never did prior to Soviet Union , while Crimea has been Russian speaking for centuries.

I love your hypocritical American way if thinking. It's ok to invade countries across the other side of continent under pretext to protect Americans , yet it is not ok for another country to do the same.

Christ America invaded and bombed an entire country for a decade under pretext of trying to find/kill 1 person.

But yet Putin is evil .

I have no doubt in my mind at all , if this was US instead of Russia , drones would have been bombing Kiev already .

Unlike Kremlin mouthpieces I have no need to make up history or facts. If you can point out any history or fact that is made up, I would be delighted to address that. If you cannot we can move on.

Rusians do not make up the majority of Ukraine's population so invading part of the country is ok. How about Donetsk or Kharkiv?

Putin has gracefully retained the option of intervening militarily in other parts of Ukraine to act a s a humanitarian mission to give aid to ethnic Russians. If it is acceptable to invade portions of Ukraine with local Russian majorities what is to stop him doing the same to sections of Kazakhstan, Latvia, Lithuania or Estonia where such local Russian majorities also exist? Hence all the comparisons with the Sudetenland approach of the 1930s.

I just love your sloppy assumption that I am American. As I am not, that makes it a little hard to indulge in "hypocritical American way of thinking".

It is not just Americans who have little regartd for dictators that major in threats and intimidation to try and achieve their sordid meglomaniac objectives.

[Richard W]

A different question. Does Putin have the right to invade Kazakhstan , Lithuania, Latvia or Estonia given their sizeable Russian minorities?

You asking questions because you do not know? Or because you once again planning to make up history and facts?

Are you also confused between minority and majority ?

Crimea has 60% Russian population as already posted too many times, that makes them majority.

Estonia and all other states mentioned by you, Russians are in minority ie half of 60% if not less.

So you really going to pose a question Russia would invade them???

Are there no parts of Kazakhstan, Lithuania, Latvia or Estonia where Russians or Russian speakers are in the majority?

From the previous statistics on voting, it seems that a significant number of Russians (or is it Russian-speakers?) in the Crimea do not actually want to be ruled from Moscow.

[Pakboong]

5,500 defections from the Ukrainian armed forces to the Crimea. Not exactly matching up with the 760,000 in 1941 but a start that the world should notice and consider. Hilary Clinton addressed an audience in Southern California yesterday comparing Putin with Hitler and took a few hits for it. She tried using euphenisms to make her point but she was still criticized for her efforts. IMO, she was not that far off. I'm not arguing the rights and wrongs of it but, it is shaping up just that way. Putin has been working the long plan to clean up what he believes are the ills of mother Russia and that includes a serious purge of dual citizens. You could actually make comparisons with the Nurnberg Laws of the 1930s. I don't see Putin trying to recreate the Soviet Unions but rather to return Russia to where it was before the the 1917 revolution but, much stronger.

He seems to be trying to divide our world economically in order to isolate his perceived enemies. He considers the IMF and all its supporters his mortal enemy. He doesn't rant and rave about it but rather methodically picks at it when convenient. He will likely use American debt to bring down the US to include his prime target, the US equities market. He has had his sights on this for years and has done enough preparatory work to actually make this happen.

I mentioned Ukraine's Holodomor in an earlier post and how this event is viewed and remembered among the Ukrainians. It is an dominate factor among them just as the holocaust is for the Jews. Your mainstream media will likely never mention it. This memory dominates Ukrainian life and Ukrainian politics. To say they will never forget is as big an understatement imaginable. I can't imagine anything dumber than our state department orchestrating a coup and installing a Jewish central bank to run one of the most anti-semetic countries in our planet.

Putin is a former KGB operative and is both brilliant and ruthless. He will always be at least 10 moves ahead of Obama and that is simply unfortunate for those of us carrying an American Passport.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Pakboong

[Jingthing]

5,500 defections from the Ukrainian armed forces to the Crimea. Not exactly matching up with the 760,000 in 1941 but a start that the world should notice and consider. Hilary Clinton addressed an audience in Southern California yesterday comparing Putin with Hitler and took a few hits for it. She tried using euphenisms to make her point but she was still criticized for her efforts. IMO, she was not that far off. I'm not arguing the rights and wrongs of it but, it is shaping up just that way. Putin has been working the long plan to clean up what he believes are the ills of mother Russia and that includes a serious purge of dual citizens. You could actually make comparisons with the Nurnberg Laws of the 1930s. I don't see Putin trying to recreate the Soviet Unions but rather to return Russia to where it was before the the 1917 revolution but, much stronger.

He seems to be trying to divide our world economically in order to isolate his perceived enemies. He considers the IMF and all its supporters his mortal enemy. He doesn't rant and rave about it but rather methodically picks at it when convenient. He will likely use American debt to bring down the US to include his prime target, the US equities market. He has had his sights on this for years and has done enough preparatory work to actually make this happen.

I mentioned Ukraine's Holodomor in an earlier post and how this event is viewed and remembered among the Ukrainians. It is an dominate factor among them just as the holocaust is for the Jews. Your mainstream media will likely never mention it. This memory dominates Ukrainian life and Ukrainian politics. To say they will never forget is as big an understatement imaginable. I can't imagine anything dumber than our state department orchestrating a coup and installing a Jewish central bank to run one of the most anti-semetic countries in our planet.

Putin is a former KGB operative and is both brilliant and ruthless. He will always be at least 10 moves ahead of Obama and that is simply unfortunate for those of us carrying an American Passport.

That seems a curious way to describe what recently happened in Ukraine:

...

"I can't imagine anything dumber than our state department orchestrating a coup and installing a Jewish central bank to run one of the most anti-semetic countries in our planet."

...

Could you kindly provide some credible links to prove that assertion? "Jewish central bank" -- what are you on about? Ukraine is now run by a bank? A Jewish bank? Come on now, just gingerly slipping in a bomb like that at the end of the thread as if it was fact ... wow.

Also, you seem to be buying into Putin's theory that the entire Ukraine change was a plot from the west. Seriously? It's no doubt the west favors more influence in the Ukraine, but that's not the same thing as being fully behind every event that made it happen.

Ukraine being a very anti-semitic country. Like Poland. Duh! That's the truth.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Jingthing

[simple1]

@Pakboong: I echo JT's concern on some of the remarks you have made and it will be interesting to see your response.

I would like to know where you get your figures for 760,000 Ukrainian armed forces nationals defecting to Nazi Germany in 1941. Brief overview of the history of Ukraine nationals joining the Nazis at the URL below that does not indicate anywhere near your figure.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/01/ukraine-wwii-legacy_n_3688865.html

Current estimates of the size of the combined Ukraine Armed Forces is less than 190,000 personnel and appears not to be combat effective due to outdated weapons systems and under funding. However an interesting observation from the article below.

“The main issue is not military balance,” Cordesman said. “It is whether Ukraine can put its forces together into a unified organization. Trying to occupy the Crimea would be to find out the hard way how many soldiers are Ukrainian, [but] Russian supporters.”

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/03/ukraine-outmoded-and-underfunded-military-no-match-for-russia/

[Pakboong]

5,500 defections from the Ukrainian armed forces to the Crimea. Not exactly matching up with the 760,000 in 1941 but a start that the world should notice and consider. Hilary Clinton addressed an audience in Southern California yesterday comparing Putin with Hitler and took a few hits for it. She tried using euphenisms to make her point but she was still criticized for her efforts. IMO, she was not that far off. I'm not arguing the rights and wrongs of it but, it is shaping up just that way. Putin has been working the long plan to clean up what he believes are the ills of mother Russia and that includes a serious purge of dual citizens. You could actually make comparisons with the Nurnberg Laws of the 1930s. I don't see Putin trying to recreate the Soviet Unions but rather to return Russia to where it was before the the 1917 revolution but, much stronger.

He seems to be trying to divide our world economically in order to isolate his perceived enemies. He considers the IMF and all its supporters his mortal enemy. He doesn't rant and rave about it but rather methodically picks at it when convenient. He will likely use American debt to bring down the US to include his prime target, the US equities market. He has had his sights on this for years and has done enough preparatory work to actually make this happen.

I mentioned Ukraine's Holodomor in an earlier post and how this event is viewed and remembered among the Ukrainians. It is an dominate factor among them just as the holocaust is for the Jews. Your mainstream media will likely never mention it. This memory dominates Ukrainian life and Ukrainian politics. To say they will never forget is as big an understatement imaginable. I can't imagine anything dumber than our state department orchestrating a coup and installing a Jewish central bank to run one of the most anti-semetic countries in our planet.

Putin is a former KGB operative and is both brilliant and ruthless. He will always be at least 10 moves ahead of Obama and that is simply unfortunate for those of us carrying an American Passport.

That seems a curious way to describe what recently happened in Ukraine:

...

"I can't imagine anything dumber than our state department orchestrating a coup and installing a Jewish central bank to run one of the most anti-semetic countries in our planet."

...

Could you kindly provide some credible links to prove that assertion? "Jewish central bank" -- what are you on about? Ukraine is now run by a bank? A Jewish bank? Come on now, just gingerly slipping in a bomb like that at the end of the thread as if it was fact ... wow.

Also, you seem to be buying into Putin's theory that the entire Ukraine change was a plot from the west. Seriously? It's no doubt the west favors more influence in the Ukraine, but that's not the same thing as being fully behind every event that made it happen.

Ukraine being a very anti-semitic country. Like Poland. Duh! That's the truth.

JT there is evidence that assistant secretary of state for Eastern Europe Victoria Nuland and the US ambassador had communication regarding the replacement PM and Nuland pretty much insisted on this guy. He is a former Ukrainian Central banker and happens to be Jewish. Nuland is also Jewish and her husband is considered one of the more influential neo cons in US government. You know I would not make that up but I do not have time to dig up all that I have read on the subject.

The simple fact that the Ukraine is anti-semitic is an understatement but speaks specifically to the problem of making the new governement work.

[whoisyourdaddy]

A different question. Does Putin have the right to invade Kazakhstan , Lithuania, Latvia or Estonia given their sizeable Russian minorities?

You asking questions because you do not know? Or because you once again planning to make up history and facts?

Are you also confused between minority and majority ?

Crimea has 60% Russian population as already posted too many times, that makes them majority.

Estonia and all other states mentioned by you, Russians are in minority ie half of 60% if not less.

So you really going to pose a question Russia would invade them???

Are there no parts of Kazakhstan, Lithuania, Latvia or Estonia where Russians or Russian speakers are in the majority?

From the previous statistics on voting, it seems that a significant number of Russians (or is it Russian-speakers?) in the Crimea do not actually want to be ruled from Moscow.

The first sentence answer is NO

Second sentence is nonsense, as already posted and shown before too many times, Crimea is mostly populated by Russians who want to be with Russia, who have voted to be closer to Russia, who have asked Russia to help

[whoisyourdaddy]

Ukraine crisis: bugged call reveals conspiracy theory about Kiev snipers

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukraine-protests-leaked-eu-phone-call-suggests-kiev-snipers-were-hired-by-opposition-coalition-1439035

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/ukraine-kiev-snipers-reportedly-hired-by-opposition-leaders-not-yanukovich-according-to-bugged-call-9171328.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/05/ukraine-bugged-call-catherine-ashton-urmas-paet

Now, who would want for this to happened?

[Jingthing]

5,500 defections from the Ukrainian armed forces to the Crimea. Not exactly matching up with the 760,000 in 1941 but a start that the world should notice and consider. Hilary Clinton addressed an audience in Southern California yesterday comparing Putin with Hitler and took a few hits for it. She tried using euphenisms to make her point but she was still criticized for her efforts. IMO, she was not that far off. I'm not arguing the rights and wrongs of it but, it is shaping up just that way. Putin has been working the long plan to clean up what he believes are the ills of mother Russia and that includes a serious purge of dual citizens. You could actually make comparisons with the Nurnberg Laws of the 1930s. I don't see Putin trying to recreate the Soviet Unions but rather to return Russia to where it was before the the 1917 revolution but, much stronger.

He seems to be trying to divide our world economically in order to isolate his perceived enemies. He considers the IMF and all its supporters his mortal enemy. He doesn't rant and rave about it but rather methodically picks at it when convenient. He will likely use American debt to bring down the US to include his prime target, the US equities market. He has had his sights on this for years and has done enough preparatory work to actually make this happen.

I mentioned Ukraine's Holodomor in an earlier post and how this event is viewed and remembered among the Ukrainians. It is an dominate factor among them just as the holocaust is for the Jews. Your mainstream media will likely never mention it. This memory dominates Ukrainian life and Ukrainian politics. To say they will never forget is as big an understatement imaginable. I can't imagine anything dumber than our state department orchestrating a coup and installing a Jewish central bank to run one of the most anti-semetic countries in our planet.

Putin is a former KGB operative and is both brilliant and ruthless. He will always be at least 10 moves ahead of Obama and that is simply unfortunate for those of us carrying an American Passport.

That seems a curious way to describe what recently happened in Ukraine:

...

"I can't imagine anything dumber than our state department orchestrating a coup and installing a Jewish central bank to run one of the most anti-semetic countries in our planet."

...

Could you kindly provide some credible links to prove that assertion? "Jewish central bank" -- what are you on about? Ukraine is now run by a bank? A Jewish bank? Come on now, just gingerly slipping in a bomb like that at the end of the thread as if it was fact ... wow.

Also, you seem to be buying into Putin's theory that the entire Ukraine change was a plot from the west. Seriously? It's no doubt the west favors more influence in the Ukraine, but that's not the same thing as being fully behind every event that made it happen.

Ukraine being a very anti-semitic country. Like Poland. Duh! That's the truth.

JT there is evidence that assistant secretary of state for Eastern Europe Victoria Nuland and the US ambassador had communication regarding the replacement PM and Nuland pretty much insisted on this guy. He is a former Ukrainian Central banker and happens to be Jewish. Nuland is also Jewish and her husband is considered one of the more influential neo cons in US government. You know I would not make that up but I do not have time to dig up all that I have read on the subject.

The simple fact that the Ukraine is anti-semitic is an understatement but speaks specifically to the problem of making the new governement work.

It is EXTREMELY DOUBTFUL that the new PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk (not president) of Ukraine is ACTUALLY a Jew in the first place!

Yes his alleged Jewishness (apparently based on one Romanian grandparent?) has been and will be used by anti-semitic political opponents in a nation with such a vile anti-semitic record as Ukraine.

This man, maybe Jewish, probably not really, is not a Jewish bank.

Yet you slip in the Jewish bank thing as if nobody would notice. Interesting that.

As far as any Americans being involved being Jewish, yes, I'm sure anti-semites of Ukraine would find ammunition in that.

I would ask that show more sensitivity in broadcasting conspiracy theories about Jewish control. Yes I know many Ukrainian anti-semites buy into that, but you posted it implied as a fact that YOU seem to accept as well. You could have easily QUALIFIED the inflammatory nature of that kind of statement merely by explaining that's what Ukrainian anti-semites think.

Note: please lets not have this thread become a debate about whether Arseniy Yatsenyuk is actually any kind of Jew or not. It doesn't really matter what the truth of that is. It is relevant that some people think he is, and that's not going to change regardless of any truth.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

RT, Putin's English language propaganda t.v. network, gets some truthiness:

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/05/world/europe/russia-news-anchor-resigns/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

[Chicog]

But isn't she American? Probably got a bung from the agency.

[whoisyourdaddy]

RT, Putin's English language propaganda t.v. network, gets some truthiness:

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/05/world/europe/russia-news-anchor-resigns/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

Self promotional stunt comes to mind

Loved her comment "i am proud to be an American" i believe it says it all

Good to see she was a pro journalist and totally unbiased, especially after making the above comments.

Then watching her interview with Cooper, she ends it with RT is about bashing America and yet being an American, she had no problem working for the network

Edited March 6, 2014 by whoisyourdaddy

[Jingthing]

Is there really any doubt in anyone's mind that RT is a media organ for Putin's propaganda? I agree it wasn't very brave of this person to finally quit. She was bought before for money and that's understandable, t.v. jobs are hard to get, but there is a limit.

[Cricketnut]

I think that any fiscally responsible Russian or westerner would run away from the Ukraine problem. It is a vast cesspool of corruption and a place where billions of ruble/euros/$$ in aid money has been lost. As the Polish FM has warned, the Ukraine is not trustworthy when it comes to promises about fiscal responsibility or in repaying loans. If sanity prevails, the EU does not allow the Ukraine to join and Putin stops trying to rebuild the Soviet Empire. The Ukraine needs a decade to learn to stand on its own legs and to deal with some core issues such as law and order, and fiscal responsibility. Leave the Ukraine with the Russians and let the Russians sink billions of their own money into what is for all intents and purposes a long term basket case.

'Cesspool of corruption', sounds like a match made in heaven for the E.U. As an aside when I worked in Brussels back in the early 90's it was reported that a million pounds worth of office stationary disappeared each year from the E.U headquarters building the Berlaymont.

Nothing to do with money any of this. Rather Russian access to the sea is what they are concerned about, especially a newly appointed pro western leader.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[folium]

A different question. Does Putin have the right to invade Kazakhstan , Lithuania, Latvia or Estonia given their sizeable Russian minorities?

You asking questions because you do not know? Or because you once again planning to make up history and facts?

Are you also confused between minority and majority ?

Crimea has 60% Russian population as already posted too many times, that makes them majority.

Estonia and all other states mentioned by you, Russians are in minority ie half of 60% if not less.

So you really going to pose a question Russia would invade them???

Are there no parts of Kazakhstan, Lithuania, Latvia or Estonia where Russians or Russian speakers are in the majority?

From the previous statistics on voting, it seems that a significant number of Russians (or is it Russian-speakers?) in the Crimea do not actually want to be ruled from Moscow.

The first sentence answer is NO

Oh dear...wrong again. More homework needed.

There are many areas of northern Kazakhstan where Russians are the majority ethnic group. See attached map, dark pink are Russians >50% of the population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kazakhstan_Slavic_2010_Rus.png

If Putin sees Russian majority areas as open to "humanitarian" intervention a la Crimea/possibly E.Ukraine, Astana should be worried. Putin in 2000 came up with a bright idea of resettling all ethnic Russians in mother Russia. By that time many Russians had already left since independence in 1991 and those remaining had no intention of being uprooted....

I could do the same for the Baltic Republics too if you like....

[Chicog]

Ironically Putin is all for giving the "sovereign" territory of Kosovo back to Serbia. Apparently it was taken illegally.

*Cough*

[whoisyourdaddy]

Oh dear...wrong again. More homework needed.

There are many areas of northern Kazakhstan where Russians are the majority ethnic group. See attached map, dark pink are Russians >50% of the population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kazakhstan_Slavic_2010_Rus.png

If Putin sees Russian majority areas as open to "humanitarian" intervention a la Crimea/possibly E.Ukraine, Astana should be worried. Putin in 2000 came up with a bright idea of resettling all ethnic Russians in mother Russia. By that time many Russians had already left since independence in 1991 and those remaining had no intention of being uprooted....

I could do the same for the Baltic Republics too if you like....

Oh dear, no clue at all once again,

What is the language of Kazak or Uzbekistan or Estonia or Latvia? Is it Russian or Their native language?

Answer: Their native tongue, that would make those countries to have minority of Russians not majority

If some village has more Russians, it does not make them majority.

Instead of referring to wiki, try either visiting or reading real books

Really getting tiresome reading "your history and facts"

PS, In Baltic states, when you arrive in the airport and speak Russian, even though they speak it fluently, they will refuse to understand and will insist you either speak English or their native language. I guess its because they have the majority

PPS, Being so knowledgeable on all matters, i would have thought you knew about forum rules, NOT to cut someone's post when quoting it.

[F430murci]

Oh dear...wrong again. More homework needed.

There are many areas of northern Kazakhstan where Russians are the majority ethnic group. See attached map, dark pink are Russians >50% of the population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kazakhstan_Slavic_2010_Rus.png

If Putin sees Russian majority areas as open to "humanitarian" intervention a la Crimea/possibly E.Ukraine, Astana should be worried. Putin in 2000 came up with a bright idea of resettling all ethnic Russians in mother Russia. By that time many Russians had already left since independence in 1991 and those remaining had no intention of being uprooted....

I could do the same for the Baltic Republics too if you like....

Oh dear, no clue at all once again,

What is the language of Kazak or Uzbekistan or Estonia or Latvia? Is it Russian or Their native language?

Answer: Their native tongue, that would make those countries to have minority of Russians not majority

If some village has more Russians, it does not make them majority.

Instead of referring to wiki, try either visiting or reading real books

Really getting tiresome reading "your history and facts"

PS, In Baltic states, when you arrive in the airport and speak Russian, even though they speak it fluently, they will refuse to understand and will insist you either speak English or their native language. I guess its because they have the majority

PPS, Being so knowledgeable on all matters, i would have thought you knew about forum rules, NOT to cut someone's post when quoting it.

Herein lies the problem. Thought, reason and logic over ridden by pride, emotion and resentment that just oozes, or gushes, from your statements. My wife can be same way when anything potentially impacts Russian pride or reality becomes inconsistent with programming since an early age. My very rationale and intelligent wife can go completely irrational in an instant when pride or programming is challenged and she has been in the US for 12 years.

On the one hand Russians believe Putin has resurrected Russia from the rubble, is restoring Russia to its prior glory and everything he says is true. Putin is incredibly intelligent and a great orator. Russians are deeply programmed to nod in agreement and believe whatever he or anyone in power says even if video evidence shows the complete opposite.

On the other hand, Russians seem to be able to acknowledge that his actions only benefit the few, the rich, the elite and those in power. The common Russian pays a heavy price, but pride in this vision of a Russia returning to former glory trumps that momentary flicker of reality.

This is why I have said over and over in this thread that there are intrinsic factors here and thought processes at play that no one from the West can understand or make sense of.

Ukrainians are screwed and very upset. I find it very disconcerting how devisive Putin can be. This stituation even created distance and hard feelings between my wife and her closest friends that are Ukranian. This shows how easy it is for Putin to be devisive and isolate Russians from the rest of the world and the US.

Edited March 6, 2014 by F430murci

[F430murci]

Obama is a disgrace. His efforts to show strength reveal weakness.

---------

US imposes visa restrictions on Russians, Crimeans it says threaten Ukraine security

http://rt.com/news/us-sanctions-russians-ukraine-206/

[simple1]

Does anyone know the percentage of 'Yes' votes required in the March 16th referendum on whether Crimea should become a part of the Russian Federation? e.g. If its say, 55 percent, its just gerrymandering.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26465962

Whilst very different cicumstances, Australian required a 'Yes'vote of 75 percent to become a Republic, that percentile of 'yes' votes seemed fair to me when such as important matter was to be voted upon

Edited March 6, 2014 by simple1

[folium]

Oh dear...wrong again. More homework needed.

There are many areas of northern Kazakhstan where Russians are the majority ethnic group. See attached map, dark pink are Russians >50% of the population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kazakhstan_Slavic_2010_Rus.png

If Putin sees Russian majority areas as open to "humanitarian" intervention a la Crimea/possibly E.Ukraine, Astana should be worried. Putin in 2000 came up with a bright idea of resettling all ethnic Russians in mother Russia. By that time many Russians had already left since independence in 1991 and those remaining had no intention of being uprooted....

I could do the same for the Baltic Republics too if you like....

Oh dear, no clue at all once again,

What is the language of Kazak or Uzbekistan or Estonia or Latvia? Is it Russian or Their native language?

Answer: Their native tongue, that would make those countries to have minority of Russians not majority

If some village has more Russians, it does not make them majority.

Instead of referring to wiki, try either visiting or reading real books

Really getting tiresome reading "your history and facts"

PS, In Baltic states, when you arrive in the airport and speak Russian, even though they speak it fluently, they will refuse to understand and will insist you either speak English or their native language. I guess its because they have the majority

PPS, Being so knowledgeable on all matters, i would have thought you knew about forum rules, NOT to cut someone's post when quoting it.

Oh dear more unfounded bluster....

Putin has kindly reserved the right to intervene militarily in eastern Ukraine if a "humanitarian" intervention is required to endure the safety of ethnic Russians. Even including Crimea, ethnic Russians comprise only 17.3% (source 2001 census) of Ukraine's population. However, in places such as Donetsk and Kharkiv the ethnic Russians do form a local/regional majority. Similarly in places such as northern Kazakhstan and parts of the Baltic Republics, while ethnic Russians are obviously in the overall minority there are local/regional examples of Russian majorities. See the map of Kazakhstan linked in my last post.

What is causing huge concern in the Baltic Republics and possibly Astana is that Putin's approach to pockets of ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine could be replicated in their countries. Hence the chat about a Sudetenland-style approach of salami slicing neighbouring countries and former Soviet possessions under the pretext of defending oppressed minority kinfolk.

You seem to be long on opinion and threats but somewhat short on supporting evidence. Back up your claims, prove me wrong but please spare us the tirades.

PS thank you for the compliment re my omniscience, but it really is more a case of being "like a stream of bat's piss" (J. Cleese, 1973) in relation to certain posters.

And just for completeness here's the map re the Baltic States for the distribution of ethnic Russians showing regions of both Estonia and Latvia with localised majorities of Russians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Russians_in_Baltic_states.png

Edited March 6, 2014 by folium

[whoisyourdaddy]

Does anyone know the percentage of 'Yes' votes required in the March 16th referendum on whether Crimea should become a part of the Russian Federation? e.g. If its say, 55 percent, its just gerrymandering.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26465962

Whilst very different cicumstances, Australian required a 'Yes'vote of 75 percent to become a Republic, that percentile of 'yes' votes seemed fair to me when such as important matter was to be voted upon

Good question,will find out soon enough.

The only problem is, Ukraine does not want to give up or share Crimea, Ukraine wants to fully control it as past has shown, every time Crimea tried to side over with Russia, Kiev went banana's

[whoisyourdaddy]

Oh dear...wrong again. More homework needed.

There are many areas of northern Kazakhstan where Russians are the majority ethnic group. See attached map, dark pink are Russians >50% of the population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kazakhstan_Slavic_2010_Rus.png

If Putin sees Russian majority areas as open to "humanitarian" intervention a la Crimea/possibly E.Ukraine, Astana should be worried. Putin in 2000 came up with a bright idea of resettling all ethnic Russians in mother Russia. By that time many Russians had already left since independence in 1991 and those remaining had no intention of being uprooted....

I could do the same for the Baltic Republics too if you like....

Oh dear, no clue at all once again,

What is the language of Kazak or Uzbekistan or Estonia or Latvia? Is it Russian or Their native language?

Answer: Their native tongue, that would make those countries to have minority of Russians not majority

If some village has more Russians, it does not make them majority.

Instead of referring to wiki, try either visiting or reading real books

Really getting tiresome reading "your history and facts"

PS, In Baltic states, when you arrive in the airport and speak Russian, even though they speak it fluently, they will refuse to understand and will insist you either speak English or their native language. I guess its because they have the majority

PPS, Being so knowledgeable on all matters, i would have thought you knew about forum rules, NOT to cut someone's post when quoting it.

Oh dear more unfounded bluster....

Putin has kindly reserved the right to intervene militarily in eastern Ukraine if a "humanitarian" intervention is required to endure the safety of ethnic Russians. Even including Crimea, ethnic Russians comprise only 17.3% (source 2001 census) of Ukraine's population. However, in places such as Donetsk and Kharkiv the ethnic Russians do form a local/regional majority. Similarly in places such as northern Kazakhstan and parts of the Baltic Republics, while ethnic Russians are obviously in the overall minority there are local/regional examples of Russian majorities. See the map of Kazakhstan linked in my last post.

What is causing huge concern in the Baltic Republics and possibly Astana is that Putin's approach to pockets of ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine could be replicated in their countries. Hence the chat about a Sudetenland-style approach of salami slicing neighbouring countries and former Soviet possessions under the pretext of defending oppressed minority kinfolk.

You seem to be long on opinion and threats but somewhat short on supporting evidence. Back up your claims, prove me wrong but please spare us the tirades.

PS thank you for the compliment re my omniscience, but it really is more a case of being "like a stream of bat's piss" (J. Cleese, 1973) in relation to certain posters.

Yet again, and each and every time, why do you change the subject?

You would not have a clue what Baltic States are thinking or what their concerns are.

Baltic states were the first states to separate from former USSR and have not been bothered ever since.

Baltic states want to be in EU and want to have a voice.

Baltic states were forcefully brought into USSR and hate Russians with passion from day one.

It was Estonian FM who discovered that snipers were not acting on orders from Russian backed president but were acting on someone else's orders.

Common sense would suggest that if Estonia is the one bringing it up, perhaps they are NOT as worried about Russia as you like to make up.

[F430murci]

Does anyone know the percentage of 'Yes' votes required in the March 16th referendum on whether Crimea should become a part of the Russian Federation? e.g. If its say, 55 percent, its just gerrymandering.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26465962

Whilst very different cicumstances, Australian required a 'Yes'vote of 75 percent to become a Republic, that percentile of 'yes' votes seemed fair to me when such as important matter was to be voted upon

Good question,will find out soon enough.

The only problem is, Ukraine does not want to give up or share Crimea, Ukraine wants to fully control it as past has shown, every time Crimea tried to side over with Russia, Kiev went banana's

As well they should. US would get upset if Mexico tried to annex Los Angeles and world would get upset if US tried to annex Toronto.

Russia's intrusion has zero to do with the people or what you say the people want. Putin does not give a flip about the people or their desires. He is motivated by other factors including a warm water port.

Edited March 6, 2014 by F430murci