Advice sought please on 69yr old moving to Thailand with Thai wife

[cliveshep]

Hi all,

At present we live in Sandhurst, Berkshire, UK. My Thai wife (31) and I (69) and no kids.

No doubt that most of my questions have been done to death before but as a newbie I really have no idea and need some sound information. I can make my own mind up - it's the information I just don't have.

I and my lovely wife intend to up and move to Thailand next year. We'll be selling the house here but it is only a little past neg equity so we won't realise more than £20 or £30k from the sale plus whatever we've already got. So we are far from rich. I am still working with the intention of boosting up my pension as far as I can.

Our intention is to stay with her family for a bit and look for a bit of land out in the sticks and build a simple home on it. We'll all eat on my pension - probably at poverty level but we will survive. We know we have to keep 400,000 in a Thai bank in my name for 2 months for a visa, and are planning to keep that amount as a minimum to keep on getting the visa. We've gleaned that bit from reading the posts here.

So first question is: what visa can I apply for in the UK and for what initial period? Can we get a 1 year one straight away for me? And what is it called?

2nd question - our belongings. We'd ideally like to take everything, figuring that on balance sending everything is possibly cheaper than starting over. Now I know the household effects go in my wife's name, so no tax, but is my stuff taxable? For instance - I have a load of (mostly over 25yrs old) tools, electric saw, drills, jig saw, compressor, tools, generators and the like I'd love to send out. Value is very little given they are all so old but working but what about VAT or import tax on tools? Can someone advise?

3rd question: We bought an 30 yr old speedboat and trailer on E-bay, because it was knackered and had severe hull damage and the trailer was little better we won it for £170. I've fixed it's problems although it still looks a heap of doo-doo but it floats and we have a £500 engine of equal age but functional although it too looks pretty awful. We also have another 30yr old engine and a 15 yr old large inflatable. Now out reasoning is these two boats are fully functional and we intend to buy in a region notorious for floods (you'll see the thinking now) because we reckon land will be cheaper. Boats are like cars but given age, condition,

and value, can anyone advise how Customs will look at them?

I might add that her family will also be moving from their home to live with us once we get somewhere so we need to be able to float everyone if it floods.

4th question and thank you for your patience: How to ship everything? Advice is a bit conflicting here as to get a UK company to do the lot - which would cost thousands, or to get a Thai-based company to do the lot which from what I read is far far cheaper, or simply hire a 40ft container from Maersk, get it dumped on the drive, load it ourselves and try and send that. That solution seems cheaper but fraught with paperwork problems and Customs minefields.

On balance a Thai based company who handle it door - to store (we'll almost certainly need a couple of months storage or more) including all the relevant paper work see the best option from other posts, so long as they don't suddenly hold us to ransom once the shipment arrives.

So who to contact that can be trusted not to apply corruption charges before release?? Bear in mind - it's a tight budget!

Apologies for making it very long - but if I don't fully explain I'll not get relevant answers.

[David48]

Mate, I don't have the answers to your questions.

But I do wish you all the best in your relocation to Thailand.

May it be the experience of your lifetime.

Personally, I don't live here full-time, but my experiences here are gold.

Good Luck and I hope the other, more experienced members will be able to assist you.

[ubonjoe]

The only visa that gives you a year of stay is an OA visa for retirement that will require the equivalent of 800k baht in a UK bank or an income of 65K baht or a combination of the two equal to 800K baht.

You can get a single entry non immigrant O visa based upon marriage to a Thai before leaving that will give you a 90 day entry. You then could apply for a one year extension of stay at immigration based upon marriage. You would need 400K baht in a Thai bank for 60 days or an income of 40k baht proven by a letter from the embassy.

Not sure how much your household goods that can be declared as your wife's.

The boat will probably have a very high import duty on it. It may be enough for you to reconsider bringing it.

[rwdrwdrwd]

Why not rent your place in the UK out instead? The income from that would be more than sufficient to both rent a property in Thailand, and eat well above poverty level (particularly when combined with your pension). It also offers more security in the event things don't work out, and you can leave some furniture behind in the property and not bother with shipping so much.

In terms of the belongings you wish to bring, personally I would use a UK company. We used and were very happy with Dynamic International, however with any shipment my experience is that you should budget for 10 - 15% of the declared value applied by customs whether in the form of tax or fees.

The boat / engines may end up causing you an awful lot of grief and expense - I'd recommend not bringing them. My understanding (I could be wrong, but I don't think dramatically so) is that cars are taxed 100% duty in regard to the original retail value, so £30k duty on a 15 year old BMW that you could pick up for a grand in the UK.. it could therefore be tens of thousands for a speedboat if the same rules apply. Tread (or float) carefully.

Edited February 25, 2014 by rwdrwdrwd

[ubonjoe]

I removed two off topic posts. The topic is about visas, extensions of stay and moving his goods here. It is not about health care his relationship with his wife's family and etc.

[cliveshep]

The only visa that gives you a year of stay is an OA visa for retirement that will require the equivalent of 800 baht in a UK bank or an income of 65K baht or a combination of the two equal to 800K baht.

You can get a single entry non immigrant O visa based upon marriage to a Thai before leaving that will give you a 90 day entry. You then could apply for a one year extension of stay at immigration based upon marriage. You would need 400K baht in a Thai bank for 60 days or an income of 40k baht proven by a letter from the embassy.

Not sure how much your household goods that can be declared as your wife's.

The boat will probably have a very high import duty on it. It may be enough for you to reconsider bringing it.

So I need a single entry non-immigrant O for 90 days? Well, many thanks, that sorts out that one then.

Where is the best place to apply, or how? To the Embassy in London, or in one of the others? And - in person or by post?

Thanks for the response.

[Morakot]

2nd question - our belongings. We'd ideally like to take everything, figuring that on balance sending everything is possibly cheaper than starting over. Now I know the household effects go in my wife's name, so no tax, but is my stuff taxable? For instance - I have a load of (mostly over 25yrs old) tools, electric saw, drills, jig saw, compressor, tools, generators and the like I'd love to send out. Value is very little given they are all so old but working but what about VAT or import tax on tools? Can someone advise?

Doubt that you will save money with shipping electrical goods. Import tax 100% of current value in Thailand (as second hand good) if I remember correctly. If you estimate the value well, you could about break if you were to buy it again in Thailand (instead of paying duties and shipping, handling and fees). You have to estimate this yourself in the declaration, but if you go too low, you might get a tax inspector doing the estimate for you, which I would imagine will not be to your advantage.

Also shipping overseas requires extra care with packaging due to adverse weather conditions of on the high seas. Yes even in containers goods get damp...

Edited February 25, 2014 by Morakot

[rwdrwdrwd]

Doubt that you will save money with shipping electrical goods. Import tax 100% of current value in Thailand (as second hand good) if I remember correctly. If you estimate the value well you could about break even, with all the costs including shipping, handling, etc. You have to estimate this yourself in the declaration, but if you go too low, you might get a tax inspector doing the estimate for you, which I would imagine will not be to your advantage.

Assuming his wife's been in the UK for a year, and the import is in her name, 'household' electronics are exempt, but going by the book this is unlikely to cover many of the tools, and almost certainly not a speedboat / engines.

We brought over a few 'non-household' electronics, but nothing to the degree that the OP mentions. It seems a risky step to be honest.

Edited February 25, 2014 by rwdrwdrwd

[olddoc]

Do not build or buy a house! Rent

Do not move in with the family and ensure a big distance maybe 300+

km is maintained between them and you !

It will prove very expensive to import the boat.

Examine, very carefully what, from a mass of belongings actually needs to be imported to Thailand.

Capital of £20/30K will not last for very long especially if you intend keeping 400,000( approx £7700) in the bank.

Have you some form of income other than the State Pension ?

Have you considered the cost of health care insurance ---there is no NHS provision in Thailand.

Sorry about a largely negative post but you must face up to reality.

PM me if you wish

[cliveshep]

Why not rent your place in the UK out instead? The income from that would be more than sufficient to both rent a property in Thailand, and eat well above poverty level (particularly when combined with your pension). It also offers more security in the event things don't work out, and you can leave some furniture behind in the property and not bother with shipping so much.

In terms of the belongings you wish to bring, personally I would use a UK company. We used and were very happy with Dynamic International, however with any shipment my experience is that you should budget for 10 - 15% of the declared value applied by customs whether in the form of tax or fees.

The boat / engines may end up causing you an awful lot of grief and expense - I'd recommend not bringing them. My understanding (I could be wrong, but I don't think dramatically so) is that cars are taxed 100% duty in regard to the original retail value, so £30k duty on a 15 year old BMW that you could pick up for a grand in the UK.. it could therefore be tens of thousands for a speedboat if the same rules apply. Tread (or float) carefully.

Rent out my home - that is not really an option as it is on a mortgage and a pretty big one too. So any income would give enough spare to live on. No - when we jump ship it is because the ship is going to sink anyway!

I don't think from others that a UK company would b e very cheap, I was lurking here for a bit and I did see two separate posts that recommended Thai companies who weren't corrupt - hopefully someone can point to one of them at least.

If you are right about the tax on imported cars and boats being based on new value - then you are right, that knocks that on the head. But I'll wait and see if someone else can be more definitive and certain. But thank you for the response.

[ubonjoe]

The only visa that gives you a year of stay is an OA visa for retirement that will require the equivalent of 800 baht in a UK bank or an income of 65K baht or a combination of the two equal to 800K baht.

You can get a single entry non immigrant O visa based upon marriage to a Thai before leaving that will give you a 90 day entry. You then could apply for a one year extension of stay at immigration based upon marriage. You would need 400K baht in a Thai bank for 60 days or an income of 40k baht proven by a letter from the embassy.

Not sure how much your household goods that can be declared as your wife's.

The boat will probably have a very high import duty on it. It may be enough for you to reconsider bringing it.

So I need a single entry non-immigrant O for 90 days? Well, many thanks, that sorts out that one then.

Where is the best place to apply, or how? To the Embassy in London, or in one of the others? And - in person or by post?

Thanks for the response.

At the moment the embassy is the only place where you can apply by post (since Jan. 2nd), The consulates can no longer accept mail in applications.

Be sure you do the application based upon marriage by sending copies of your marriage certificate, wife's house book, ID card and or her a copy fo her passport photo page.

[harrry]

I understand boats are actually duty free but you must pay a sales tax of 7% of their estimated value which will be high.

You do not seem to have accounted at all for health care costs which can be high here.

[cliveshep]

Do not build or buy a house! Rent

Do not move in with the family and ensure a big distance maybe 300+

km is maintained between them and you !

It will prove very expensive to import the boat.

Examine, very carefully what, from a mass of belongings actually needs to be imported to Thailand.

Capital of £20/30K will not last for very long especially if you intend keeping 400,000( approx £7700) in the bank.

Have you some form of income other than the State Pension ?

Have you considered the cost of health care insurance ---there is no NHS provision in Thailand.

Sorry about a largely negative post but you must face up to reality.

PM me if you wish

I love her family and it is mutual. I've been supporting them for years anyway. We did all live together, and we can do so again although we do plan to share a building we'll each have our own space. They'll sell up and chip in with my wife. She'll work - she's smart and we've worked out costs already. Certainly don't want to be too far apart from them.

For boat - i suspect you are right. Health Care - I am in God's hands, but then I've been there for years anyway. Nothing changing there then.

We face reality - truly, I know how to live on the cheap as does my wife, we've done it there and we do it here. I mean cheap too - rice and vegetables are cheap and that is how we always live. We don't need all the western luxuries others take for granted, fancy cars or stuff like that. We'll buy an old pick-up and be content. As for the boat - if I can at least take some tools I'll build one, I'm more than capable as that is what I have done for years as a 2nd string to construction. It's just that having one brought from here would have been easier but paying that level of tax is not on.

Not a largely negative post at all , we need all the input there is, we can sift out the things we can cope with.

We cannot survive in the UK so it's Thailand and that's it!

[cliveshep]

By ubonjoe:

"At the moment the embassy is the only place where you can apply by post (since Jan. 2nd), The consulates can no longer accept mail in applications.

Be sure you do the application based upon marriage by sending copies of your marriage certificate, wife's house book, ID card and or her a copy of her passport photo page."

It's the house book we don't have. We live in the UK and the only house in the family outside the UK is in her older sister's name.

Does that matter do you think?

[Morakot]

Doubt that you will save money with shipping electrical goods. Import tax 100% of current value in Thailand (as second hand good) if I remember correctly. If you estimate the value well you could about break even, with all the costs including shipping, handling, etc. You have to estimate this yourself in the declaration, but if you go too low, you might get a tax inspector doing the estimate for you, which I would imagine will not be to your advantage.

Assuming his wife's been in the UK for a year, and the import is in her name, 'household' electronics are exempt, but going by the book this is unlikely to cover many of the tools, and almost certainly not a speedboat / engines.

"White goods" are an exception for personal effects. I think you can only bring one item, AFAIK.

I think, it does not matter in whose name it is, if the OP can prove that he permanemtly moves to Thailand.

Brining in the speedboat is different than the actual engine. There will be serious duties and Tax for the outboard engine (100%+?); for the boat it's different it depends whether he intends to bring the boat in permanently.

[ubonjoe]

By ubonjoe:

"At the moment the embassy is the only place where you can apply by post (since Jan. 2nd), The consulates can no longer accept mail in applications.

Be sure you do the application based upon marriage by sending copies of your marriage certificate, wife's house book, ID card and or her a copy of her passport photo page."

It's the house book we don't have. We live in the UK and the only house in the family outside the UK is in her older sister's name.

Does that matter do you think?

All that is needed is copies of the first page and page where your wife is registered in a house book (tambien ban) . It does not need to be for her own house.

[harrry]

Your wife will only be able to bring one of each item...eg one tv one radio one microwave. Duty one additional items may be high.

[Morakot]

Not a largely negative post at all , we need all the input there is, we can sift out the things we can cope with.

We cannot survive in the UK so it's Thailand and that's it!

I'd say, sell the speedboat and cover (parts of) your shipping costs.

Best of luck. Quite brave to relocate at your age, may I say. But sure it can be done.

[rwdrwdrwd]

"White goods" are an exception for personal effects. I think you can only bring one item, AFAIK.

I think, it does not matter in whose name it is, if the OP can prove that he permanemtly moves to Thailand.

Just to clarify - you mean 'one of each' in regard to the white goods? If not we were very lucky, we brought in at least 20 household electronic appliances (one of each though).

I don't think that a Non Immigrant O in itself qualifies you for duty free import - http://www2.customs.go.th/Customs-Eng/HouseholdEffects/HouseholdEffects.jsp?menuNme=HouseHold - an OA might, but it certainly seems to me to be a lot simpler to ship in the Thai spouse's name.

[harrry]

"White goods" are an exception for personal effects. I think you can only bring one item, AFAIK.

I think, it does not matter in whose name it is, if the OP can prove that he permanemtly moves to Thailand.

Just to clarify - you mean 'one of each' in regard to the white goods? If not we were very lucky, we brought in at least 20 household electronic appliances (one of each though).

I don't think that a Non Immigrant O in itself qualifies you for duty free import - http://www2.customs.go.th/Customs-Eng/HouseholdEffects/HouseholdEffects.jsp?menuNme=HouseHold - an OA might, but it certainly seems to me to be a lot simpler to ship in the Thai spouse's name.

The O-A does not but his wife is a returning Thai citizen and is entitled if she has stayed out for 2 years.

[Morakot]

Rwd, you are correct with the Non Immigrant O status. In terms of second-hand household effects, electrical items such as "white goods" were excluded from what I remember (with the exception of one item). But maybe you're right and it meant one item each.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Morakot

[olddoc]

"We cannot survive in the UK so it's Thailand and that's it!"

OH Dear

If you cannot survive in the UK where there is free health care and a minimum guaranteed income for someone of your age you will not , in my opinion , be able to survive in Thailand.

With limited Capital which it seems you intend to eat into by house building and truck purchase income will be severely restricted.

In a rural environment such as is described your wife's earning potential will be limited in the extreme.

Please take care and consider all your option before burning bridges

[Mario2008]

Rwd, you are correct with the Non Immigrant O status. In terms of second-hand household effects, electrical items such as "white goods" were excluded from what I remember (with the exception of one item). But maybe you're right and it meant one item each.

You can bring in household effects in a reasonable amount.

But only if you start working in Thailand and have a work permit or are a Thai national that has lived abroad and returns to Thailand.

[Morakot]

"We cannot survive in the UK so it's Thailand and that's it!"

OH Dear

If you cannot survive in the UK where there is free health care and a minimum guaranteed income for someone of your age you will not , in my opinion , be able to survive in Thailand.

With limited Capital which it seems you intend to eat into by house building and truck purchase income will be severely restricted.

In a rural environment such as is described your wife's earning potential will be limited in the extreme.

Please take care and consider all your option before burning bridges

Nicely put, but the OP might have an extensive network of care from his wife's family on which he can rely on. He might not have anyone so ever in the UK, only an extended family in Thailand who is willing and able to support him.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Morakot

[steve187]

white goods is - one of each used item,ie, 1x kettle, 1x toaster, 1x fridge etc. no new items. keep all details of shipping in wife's name it does not attract attention at the 'docks' that way, items are normally shipped to Sri Racha . no food stuffs are allowed but i always think a case of baked beans ( purly as ballast) at the bottom of a wardrobe to stop it toppling over whilst in the container is a good idea. i think the boat will be needed more in the UK at the moment than in thailand.

A tip for packing is to put stuff from one room only in boxes, makes it easier to locate stuff once here, also number each box and make a list of contents, for you own records only, a more simple list is better for customs, our container all in my wife's name arrived at our home in thailand still sealed from the uk shipper, ( it was never opened by customs)

good luck with the move, you are only as old as you feel, ignore any negative posts.

i have an acquaintance here that moved with his son,thai wife and granddaughter and he was in his nineties.

Edited February 25, 2014 by steve187

[cliveshep]

"We cannot survive in the UK so it's Thailand and that's it!"

OH Dear

If you cannot survive in the UK where there is free health care and a minimum guaranteed income for someone of your age you will not , in my opinion , be able to survive in Thailand.

With limited Capital which it seems you intend to eat into by house building and truck purchase income will be severely restricted.

In a rural environment such as is described your wife's earning potential will be limited in the extreme.

Please take care and consider all your option before burning bridges

Hi olddoc, My wife's family have nothing, no jobs, no income. The husband of the elder sister was Japanese, he decided he wanted to go back to Japan and true to Japanese culture simply walked out leaving wife and child, a son now 16. The next sister was married. She had an accident some years back and broke her back. Her husband, typical Thai man, looked at potential medical bills and he just walked off and left her to it, on her broken back in a hospital bed. They couldn't afford the extensive treatment/surgery required and she had to leave the hospital. Her spine is a weird shape now with a large bump in it - she cannot lift anything much at all. None of them except the lad and my wife have had any education at all and as a result cannot get jobs. In the case of the sister with the broken back she certainly cannot work. So I am committed to trying to feed everyone and so far they all have a mobile phone, internet, a car and the lad goes to a private school, all utility bills are paid and they do that on the same money we'll have later so if they can manage now they'll manage then, especially as the lad finishes school this year and is getting a gap year job and their car I'm making payments on finishes next year. We will manage - somehow! We'll be just off breadline but we'll mange or die trying.

So we all live or die on my pension and what I can set up for them with what money we get from my home. Hopefully my wife who studied business in Rangsit Uni will figure out a simple business plan that they can do when I die.

Health care - I will have what most Thais have - none. As a Christian I'll do what I've always done and what always works for me - I'll trust God. I cannot do anything else anyway. I think you get the picture now. We have what we have and it has to suffice. For us it is simple - fish or cut bait!

[olddoc]

No offence was ever intended.

You clearly have everything worked out.

I and I hope others will desist from offering any further advice.

Best wishes !

[cliveshep]

No offence was ever intended.

You clearly have everything worked out.

I and I hope others will desist from offering any further advice.

Best wishes !

No no no - you misunderstand me. Your post has in no way offended me. I don't have everything worked out - far from it. It's the issues you raised which we have little choice but accept. I am glad you raised hem even if we have covered them, because we might not have considered them and you would have alerted us.

I'm aware that the whole thing is a bit of a mess but I'm rather stuck with it. We have to go, my wife is unlikely to get more than one more visa, may never pass her English Level 3 or Life in the UK (which of course is the whole reason for it all) and if I stop working my income will not be enough. So my wife would ultimately get arrested and deported by large men in big boots. I'm not up for that so we plan to go under control so to speak.

The advice we needed most desperately in order to plan ahead revolved around boat, tools, home furnishings, specific recommended movers, preferable from Thailand but who operate in the UK , and the various rules and regulations. I certainly don't want you telling knowledgeable people not to offer advice please. We need their valued input.

[Morakot]

May I offer some advise Clive.

Assess what you really need over in Thailand. Check what your wife and her sister have. For example, good tools might be useful and might help you to fix and maintain a home yourself and save money in the future. I assume the boat will not used for fishing; you might want to dispense with items that will increase your shipping costs and would not be suitable for a downsized and more basic lifestyle. It can work, if you're happy with a simple rural life and your family supports you mutually as you support them. That you should be sure of.

May you be blessed.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Morakot

[robertthebruce]

Very brave man, and i take my ''Hat'' off to you, to do what you are doing for your 'Wife'' and her family..

You have a big heart.. all the best and i hope it works out..., which i am sure it will, you are a survivor for sure..

Cheers

Robert