Advice sought please on 69yr old moving to Thailand with Thai wife

[cliveshep]

robertthebruce - that was a very kind comment - thank you.

Morakot - I think there will be mutual love and support - they are an outstanding family in that way, kind and loving so I am blessed with them. Basic lifestyle - I think you've got that bit right, my aim is to make sure everyone has food and shelter as a minimum. Beats them trying to camp out under a bridge or in a temple and begging - the thought of that chills my blood.

We are doing what you suggest, and I can see how having all my tools would be great even if I am old I can still do jobs on the home, especially as we are planning around doing some of the build work ourselves. It'll be a bit basic but so long as we build up on stilts that would be the main thing. We got flooded out a couple of years ago and then came to the UK and look what happens here?

But - the import situation on loads of second hand tools is the issue that concerns me - I'd hate to pay a huge sum to get everything shipped out only to get stuffed with a massive tax bill I couldn't pay and therefore lose the lot!

That is clearly our next major info required item. I can see that boats and engines are going to have to go although maybe an inflatable would slide through? They wouldn't worry about a large bag inside a container I'm thinking?

[umbanda]

I looked on your post and responses. I am 70 and retired. Do no pay attention to negatives responses. You are in a lot better shape than me when I move here.....My advise.....

I do not know about bringing and using your "stuff" here, may be complicated and expensive. But..if you need it so bad...

I am from the US and I do not know how Thai visa is obtained in the UK. I just came 3 years ago, got a 30 days visa in Thai customs here, and days later I show up at the Thai Immigration office to start my NO visa......Now, since few months, I am happily married.

In your particular case will be even easier...

Already married with a Thai, you can just get a tourist visa, and apply for a NO visa here with a Retirement or Marriage extension.

For the first one just need to show 800,000THB deposited in a bank account and prove of residence, like a lease contract, etc.

For the second one, you only will need your marriage documentation, prove of residence, and 400,000THB in a bank account.

The income you are getting from the UK, even only your pension, will be enough to build for you and your wife a good and simple life here, if you are not looking to live in Thailand's touristic spots...or having expensive "hobbies". Welcome to Thailand!

[OJAS]

"We cannot survive in the UK so it's Thailand and that's it!"

OH Dear

If you cannot survive in the UK where there is free health care and a minimum guaranteed income for someone of your age you will not , in my opinion , be able to survive in Thailand.

With limited Capital which it seems you intend to eat into by house building and truck purchase income will be severely restricted.

In a rural environment such as is described your wife's earning potential will be limited in the extreme.

Please take care and consider all your option before burning bridges

Nicely put, but the OP might have an extensive network of care from his wife's family on which he can rely on. He might not have anyone so ever in the UK, only an extended family in Thailand who is willing and able to support him.

Agreed. Care (as distinct from health) costs are definitely NOT covered in the UK on the NHS, as my late parents discovered to their (considerable) cost in their final years. And I am fortunate in having an extensive network of care from my Thai wife's family to ensure that I shouldn't meet the same expensive fate here in due course.

[Sheryl]

There is a very important question that you failed to ask: how will you pay for health care for yourself?

At 69 you will find it very difficult, if not impossible, to get health insurance. As a Thai citizen your wife will be eligible for coverage under Thailand's "30 baht" (AKA "gold card" scheme) but you will not be.

Costs of medical care, even at government hospitals, can easily run to over a hundred thousand pounds in the event of a catastrophic illness or accident.

And, you may lose eligibility for care under the NHS back home.

Please give this serious thought as it does not sound like you are in a position to self-insure. If any members know of an insurance co. willing to issue new policies to someone of this age, please chime in.

[billd766]

robertthebruce - that was a very kind comment - thank you.

Morakot - I think there will be mutual love and support - they are an outstanding family in that way, kind and loving so I am blessed with them. Basic lifestyle - I think you've got that bit right, my aim is to make sure everyone has food and shelter as a minimum. Beats them trying to camp out under a bridge or in a temple and begging - the thought of that chills my blood.

We are doing what you suggest, and I can see how having all my tools would be great even if I am old I can still do jobs on the home, especially as we are planning around doing some of the build work ourselves. It'll be a bit basic but so long as we build up on stilts that would be the main thing. We got flooded out a couple of years ago and then came to the UK and look what happens here?

But - the import situation on loads of second hand tools is the issue that concerns me - I'd hate to pay a huge sum to get everything shipped out only to get stuffed with a massive tax bill I couldn't pay and therefore lose the lot!

That is clearly our next major info required item. I can see that boats and engines are going to have to go although maybe an inflatable would slide through? They wouldn't worry about a large bag inside a container I'm thinking?

I am 70 in May and have been living here now permanently for 10 years out in rural Thailand.

Like you I have no health insurance but no God either though I do have a strong belief in myself and my family.

A lot depends on where you are going to live will depend on your costs.

Living in central BKK costs far more than out in the sticks where I live as does any city but some are cheaper than others.

I have 3 pensions so my life is easier than some as my wife already has the land and house.

I did my retirement planning based on 70 Baht to 1 GBP and on my wife and I. Now there is a wife, 9 year old son, mother in law, nephew 17 and of course me. Sometime it is not as easy as other times but we live fairly well and don't starve.

Unless you are planning on living close to the sea I suggest that you sell the boat and the engine in the UK which will give you more cash at a time that you will need it.

Importing second hand tools. I wouldn't really bother to bring electrical tools unless they are good quality. Normal hand tools, socket sets etc are not too expensive but the quality varies as does the cost.

Off the top of my head when we moved out here 12 years ago we used a Thai company and shared a container with a friend which helped and the Thai firm dealt with all the paperwork including customs and it wasn't too expensive.

If you want to send me a PM just click on my name and I will come up on a different page and then click on send PM and you will get to me. If not reply to this anyway and I will find you and give you all the help I can.

Cheers

Bill

[cliveshep]

Hi OJAS, you are correct - my (extended) family will care for me although the reason we are going is so that I can out of what little I will have give them a bit of a boost so hopefully they can survive when I'm gone. I trust them from past experience.

Hi Sheryl, minor medical care - like dentistry or similar, if we have money I'll pay for me, or them, but if not - then not. There is no money for that, and no insurance company would take me on at my age anyway. Besides, I'm "end-of-life" really.

Anyway, my wife is far younger, my heart's desire is to do my best to help them get something going for themselves. If my little capitol enables them to have a home on a highway with a little land around it my wife is pretty confident she can get the others making and selling something. My suggestion was a fish farm - the capitol outlay is a pump, land near water, a large polythene lined hole or two in the ground where the contents of the hole create a nice high bank to keep the floods out, and some fingerlings to fatten. Maybe some chicks or ducks too. They can earn money selling or trade with their neighbours - many already do it that way and make a living.

They won't be buying new cars or executive jets any time soon but they won't starve either. I have contacts up North who do that already, helping villagers become self-sufficient - the idea isn't fully fleshed out with us but it is germinating. It probably isn't what most on this forum would consider as ideal but it'll be maybe the best we can do.

[falkan]

put your wife into work and she can boost your economy with 15k a month,it's not that hard to find a job and then you can have your 400k in your bank account easy!

or wait, you are 70 and she is 30, am thinking to myself now, is this love or she just live with you because of money? what do you think...

but i think better get a 3months tourist visa first and see how things will go..

Edited February 25, 2014 by falkan

[cliveshep]

Hi billd765,

Many thanks for that offer my friend, very kind. We think along the same lines I feel. We certainly won't be living in BKK too long although that is close to where SIL has her house. in Khukot in Lamlukka. She'll sell if she can) once we have got somewhere else to live. I say if she can because in an area that had prolonged flooding a couple of years ago by all accounts no one is that to buy homes! They had around 4ft of water!

Se we are defo looking to buy rural, maybe Kanjanaburi if we can get some land along the Kwai which we can afford - that's what my wife dreams of anyway. I think we need to be where there are other people nearby, discouraging those who might think a falang was easy prey to rob, and also having possible passing trade.

Thanks for the pm offer, for the moment I'll leave it public so folk can follow the thread and maybe offer more useful advice.

[cliveshep]

put your wife into work and she can boost your economy with 15k a month,it's not that hard to find a job and then you can have your 400k in your bank account easy!

or wait, you are 70 and she is 30, am thinking to myself now, is this love or she just live with you because of money? what do you think...

but i think better get a 3months tourist visa first and see how things will go..

Haha - love of course or we wouldn't be together. She knows the circumstances - she certainly had far better offers financially, she has proven romantic love consistently for years now - if it was a facade it would have cracked long ago. You have no idea how hard I had to work to get her to come to the UK - she really didn't want to come here.

[Morakot]

you may lose eligibility for care under the NHS back home.

That's currently not the situation for British citizens.

You can receive free NHS hospital treatment if you: [...] have come to the UK to take up permanent residence, for example, if you are a former UK resident who has returned from abroad...

The issue would be getting there in case of a catastrophic event.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Morakot

[Mario2008]

1 offensive post and a reply to it removed.

[55Jay]

You are in the right place for visa advise. Nuff said.

Echo the advice to sell off the boat/motor. Use the cash to help pay for this significant relocation.

On shipping things here, there are two schools of thought. Follow the letter of the law, or don't, and take your chances.

I sought and received both advises here in ThaiVisa before I sent my shipment. Ultimately rolled the dice and went with the latter crowd.

Glad I did.

I sent an 80% full 40' container stacked with a lifetime of shi_te, in my (Thai) wife's name. It was paid for by my Company, so no idea about cost, but as others have mentioned here, a container may be partitioned and shared by more than one party, if that fits your situation, may be able to save a few quid.

Our receiving agent in BKK was Sante Fe Relocations (http://www.santaferelo.com/) and after they got done trying to buffalo my Mrs. with scary stories about Thai Customs and taxes, which didn't work, the container arrived at our Issan house with the original seal from origin still on the latch. We paid 200 Baht (Two Hundred Baht) for something stupid the agent said, and I just wrote it off compared to how bad it could have been had the Customs Agent actually inspected and wanted to apply the letter of the law in a few areas. Your mileage may vary, and helps if your Mrs. is informed and assertive with feckers trying to get over.

Bottom line I guess is, if you can afford to pay for a 20' container and the price is the same regardless of full or 1/2 full, then pack that bastard to the gills, including a case of your favorite baked beans. Don't list anything as new, even if it is, but realize there may be a trade off with claiming insurance if something is missing/broken - lucky we didn't have this situation in our case. Don't list foodstuffs as foodstuffs, list as kitchenware. Multiple computers, the second/third is a "CPU". A second/third television is a "screen". Our full-size tread mill was listed as a "walker".

Keep control of the crew doing the inventory at origin and be creative in what they actually write down... We had a gang of Filipinos who were very understanding and cooperative, so they inherited a cheap bed and night stands I didn't want anyway, and a case of beer...... they were happy and so was I.

While the rubbish is in transit, you will find out you don't need half of it live your life. Once it does arrive though, sure is nice to have your familiar trash around you, and that favorite, good quality crescent wrench in your hand.

Good luck on the pivot.

J

[Noi657]

"We cannot survive in the UK so it's Thailand and that's it!"

OH Dear

If you cannot survive in the UK where there is free health care and a minimum guaranteed income for someone of your age you will not , in my opinion , be able to survive in Thailand.

With limited Capital which it seems you intend to eat into by house building and truck purchase income will be severely restricted.

In a rural environment such as is described your wife's earning potential will be limited in the extreme.

Please take care and consider all your option before burning bridges

Clive.... Go for it mate, while I agree with the above about the health care, I disagree with everything else!! He will get his pension amount whether he be in the UK or Thailand. He has stated he has a big mortgage, so he will be rid of that for starters! And then we could go on and on and on about council tax, water rates, electricity, gas etc etc. Anyone that thinks the UK is a better option for a retiree on a state pension is kidding themselves!! Clive, I wish you all the best

[Colabamumbai]

Maybe you have not spent much time in Thailand. What you cannot pack into 4 suitcases you do not need.

[SantiSuk]

This is an exciting new phase to your life. Don't clutter it up with relics of the past. Bare essentials only. Knackered boat? Youv'e gotta be kidding

Don't be seen to be leaving the UK from an official DWP/HMRC point of view. You would lose index-linking on your state pension. Keeping the house in the UK rented out is a great idea (from another poster) only if the financials work so that rental income covers borrowing costs and property agent/maintenance etc - I suspect too much of a hassle to manage it from afar unless you have friends/family in the UK to help out.

The rent don't buy comments are well-directed if it was just you on your own but you need to think of a continuing family home for your missus. Give ita year or two in a rented house first though to get the feel of the country and how to get something appropriate built cheaply.

[srn89]

I have during the past 29 years of coming and going brought into Thailand a total of 4x 20 foot containers of goods, ALWAYS in my wife's name and never had a problem with the Customs here. You must ensure that ALL Documentation is in your wife's name, that includes Shipping Paperwork and everything else which may be required. The container will be Customs cleared at the Port so you will need a Thai Agent to carry this out, i will admit that the last 2 containers that were shipped the clearing agent paid 10.000 Baht to ensure '' A quick clearance'' you decide what that means !!

With regard to the container contents make sure that you compile a comprehensive list of what is inside including what is in each box, make sure you number the boxes.As far as tools go i listed all but there was no query from Customs for any thing.Your wife is entitled to bring in 1 of each items such as T.V. Fridge and all other Household goods provided that they are used goods, don't buy to bring, not worth the hassle which you will create.

With regard to Shipping i found the best route was use Maersk, they will send a Truck with a container on the back, you will have, if i remember correctly 4 hours to load, it will then be taken to Felixstowe Port and shipped from there.Make sure you explain that you are sending household effects which should ensure a better quality container.

Maersk will send you the Bill of Lading once the container is loaded in the port, whether you are in the U.K. or Thailand, i found them Excellent to deal with and apart from In country ( Thailand ) costs you will know exactly what your costs involved are, they will also organised the forwarding in Thailand BUT i don't advise that route as too many people then have their hand in the pot, your wife should be able to organise a Freight forwarder and negotiate the best price for their services.

I mentioned 1 of each White goods, Beds and personal household items do not seem an issue.

I cold go on and on but if you need any additional information please send me a Message and i will try to assist with any more information that you may need

As a thought the container will take normally 6 weeks to arrive in Thailand, think carefully regarding the wrapping of goods as you intend putting into storage, Humidity etc.

[billd766]

Hi billd765,

Many thanks for that offer my friend, very kind. We think along the same lines I feel. We certainly won't be living in BKK too long although that is close to where SIL has her house. in Khukot in Lamlukka. She'll sell if she can) once we have got somewhere else to live. I say if she can because in an area that had prolonged flooding a couple of years ago by all accounts no one is that to buy homes! They had around 4ft of water!

Se we are defo looking to buy rural, maybe Kanjanaburi if we can get some land along the Kwai which we can afford - that's what my wife dreams of anyway. I think we need to be where there are other people nearby, discouraging those who might think a falang was easy prey to rob, and also having possible passing trade.

Thanks for the pm offer, for the moment I'll leave it public so folk can follow the thread and maybe offer more useful advice.

No problem Clive.

I live up beside the northern part of the Mae Wong national park which is a great place but most years the government water supply runs out in March and back around Songkran. This year the weather gods cheated and we ran dry last week. No floods though.

[cliveshep]

Gentlemen - the ideas and information coming across is first class and we are so grateful - thank you. Keep them coming please.

I think we've accepted - old boats and outboards do not go to Thailand. Maybe the inflatable could in it's bag - could call it a "leisure toy" perhaps? At 8-man capacity it is a useful bit of kit. It seems that a home workshop could go, simply listed as hand tools, or maybe "hobby accessories"?

Does that sound about right?

I assume that we would load the container at our home? Who does the paper work as stuff goes in - the driver? Or us?

So - if we were to use Maersk can anyone advise us on an honest freight forwarder if not Maersk?

And what would Maersk charge us anyway? Or any one else?

And we'll probably need storage - has anyone got any ideas on that?

So many questions - sorry guys. But I am seeing some light now.

[JeremyBowskill]

I think the best advice I have seen is keep the inlaws 300+ kms away. I think probably the reason you have all managed to get on so far and you have not been totally hassled for money in the UK is, your wife has provided a buffer in the middle and kept too many requests from you. I would be willing to bet a pound to a penny that will change if y'all live together. In the ideal world everyone would understand this is what you have and this is what you could afford, I somehow doubt it will turn out that way and suspect it will be a constant problem.

[cliveshep]

Lived with them before, well, not in-laws who are all dead now, but older sisters who took their place years ago. They're lovely and so far from demanding as it's possible to be. They are a lovely family and I'm happy living and sharing with them and them with me. I certainly wouldn't want them 300kms away - they are MY family too now.

I guess I'm big-time blessed huh?

[JeremyBowskill]

Lived with them before, well, not in-laws who are all dead now, but older sisters who took their place years ago. They're lovely and so far from demanding as it's possible to be. They are a lovely family and I'm happy living and sharing with them and them with me. I certainly wouldn't want them 300kms away - they are MY family too now.

I guess I'm big-time blessed huh?

You must be!! 11 years here and I still dread village visits, every uncle somchai and his brother would love a slice of johnny farangs action. How long you been married?

[samran]

If I was the OP, I'd keep the property in the UK if at all possible, or sell it, and buy a cheaper one to rent out so you have an income stream, even if it is tiny after the mortgage payments. Simply doesn't sound to me like you've fully considered the financial consequences of your move.

Never, ever, ever burn bridges with your home country. You'll need them.

[ubonjoe]

I just removed a way off topic post and replies to it.

[cliveshep]

Just to put an end to this speculation - I did not meet her in a bar, we have been happily married for a few years, she has never worked in a bar or in anything like it although she did work a little bit for Bata Shoes when she was in UNI. She was in UNI when I met her and when we married she was a certified virgin confirmed over an unrelated matter by Central General in BKK.

I understand that many falang do go to Thailand for sex only but that is not the case with us and I'll be obliged if the subject is not raised again because it is offensive to say the least.

[ubonjoe]

Just to put an end to this speculation - I did not meet her in a bar, we have been happily married for a few years, she has never worked in a bar or in anything like it although she did work a little bit for Bata Shoes when she was in UNI. She was in UNI when I met her and when we married she was a certified virgin confirmed over an unrelated matter by Central General in BKK.

I understand that many falang do go to Thailand for sex only but that is not the case with us and I'll be obliged if the subject is not raised again because it is offensive to say the least.

I removed one of those implying that and some replies to it. If you see one before myself or another mod does click the report button and it will be removed,

[Mister Fixit]

The only visa that gives you a year of stay is an OA visa for retirement that will require the equivalent of 800 baht in a UK bank

He meant to write 800,000 baht in a UK bank.

But you ask too many questions for one person to reasonably answer. I know a 29 year old who did it all on his own and didn't ask anyone, anywhere, anything.

Basically, you're going to need a retirement visa and the requisite £16,000 equivalent in your bank for at least 6 months previously.

Like you I had loads of old tools which I realised were mainly of sentimental value. I gave the lot to my most technically-minded son out of the two. Hence, either bin them, give them to a charity shop or sell them on Ebay. It's pointless taking them - buy new here if you need them. I had a small handy-man business for 8 years in the UK and have barely lifted a screwdriver here. Builders are so cheap it's pointless doing it yourself. Be ruthless.

Get rid of your furniture likewise. My oldest daughter had most of mine. Be ruthless.

Be aware it will take you at least 6 months learning curve if you come here to live permanently. Two years is better. Holidays (even long ones) don't count at all. You'll have learnt a bit, but you need to be here undisturbed, getting it wrong and learning by your mistakes. This is not a forgiving place especially if you are older and/or have health problems - especially in the sticks.

Guard against rip-offs - you won't see them coming, but be aware and cautious before agreed to ANYTHING with a Thai.

Oh, there's so much I could say, and so much you expect of readers but at the last analysis, it's all up to you. No-one else can do it but you. Get on with it!

I wish you luck and hope it goes smoothly but you are moving your entire life to an alien culture and late in in your life too. You'll do it, and it will work, but it WILL be difficult.

One final word - DON'T TRUST ANYONE - and that, I'm sorry to say, includes your wife. I've been lucky with mine and I'm sure yours is fine (no insult intended) but I have read of so many old chaps coming out and then being left penniless and deserted 6 months down the line ...

Do as someone else suggested, and try to let your UK home. At least you'll have somewhere to come back to ...

Edited February 27, 2014 by Mister Fixit

[ubonjoe]

He is married to a Thai he does not need to do a retirement extension or a OA visa. He is happy with the extension based upon marriage option. I fixed my typo in my post thanks for pointing it out.

[Mister Fixit]

He is married to a Thai he does not need to do a retirement extension or a OA visa. He is happy with the extension based upon marriage option. I fixed my typo in my post thanks for pointing it out.

Quite right, of course, I forgot. He wont need a retirement visa, but will still need to show the 400k etc.for the marriage visa.

[cliveshep]

He is married to a Thai he does not need to do a retirement extension or a OA visa. He is happy with the extension based upon marriage option. I fixed my typo in my post thanks for pointing it out.

Quite right, of course, I forgot. He wont need a retirement visa, but will still need to show the 400k etc.for the marriage visa.

We are aware of that element and we intend to budget for it.

As for asking questions and your knowledge of a 29yr old who didn't ask any:- good for him. Did he make any mistakes?

I'm too old not to want to learn from others mistakes and profit from their experience if, like many on here, they are prepared to share it. Besides - we can't afford mistakes, we want to get it right first time as far as possible.

I'm no so old as to be stupid or senile and I still hold down a Project Management job here in the UK operating as a Consultant. I do a few less hours than I used to, but I have my wife to go home to now.

But I'm running two homes, got kids at 6th Form and UNI so money is tight! We have one rice bowl and 7 spoons if you get the picture!

[OJAS]

you may lose eligibility for care under the NHS back home.

That's currently not the situation for British citizens.

You can receive free NHS hospital treatment if you: [...] have come to the UK to take up permanent residence, for example, if you are a former UK resident who has returned from abroad...

The issue would be getting there in case of a catastrophic event.

The OP would, however, need to return permanently to live in the UK in order to avail himself of the NHS - and, more importantly, satisfy the powers-that-be that he had done so. This might prove easier said than done even if he were prepared to contemplate a permanent return to the UK - which, judging from his posts, would appear highly unlikely.

That said, health costs for which the OP might become liable here need to be balanced against possible UK care costs for which, thanks to his Thai family, he would no longer be liable. There is a clear distinction between the two which is not always readily understood. Either type could mount up significantly over time.

Don't be seen to be leaving the UK from an official DWP/HMRC point of view. You would lose index-linking on your state pension.

This particular piece of advice strikes me as being illegal and, hence, not to be recommended!

Edited February 28, 2014 by OJAS