New Property Law For Foreigners Spreads Confusion

[Noel]

The question I have is this. What will this do to condo values?

In the more popular condos, 49 percent are owned by farangs, a certain percent are owned by Thais, and another certain percent are owned by farangs running phony companies. The farangs owning condos under companies will be in a big fix. They cannout sell to foreigners (building already 49 percent) so they can only sell to Thais, who will of course take advantage of their desperation and pay lower prices. What about the remaining farang owned condos, do they go up or down? They are in a building of radically declining values for the Thai and company owned condos, but their ownership structure is limited by number and much more desirable, so what happens? Up, same, or down for those farang owned condos? I haven't a clue because I have never heard of a market like that.

This latest development has no direct bearing on the condo market as far as I can see.

The problems and uncertainties outlined above applied before.

Really? Consider that there will now be a class of foreigners with company owned condos which is the exact same legal situation as company owned houses, isn't it? Will they be able to transfer their company to a new farang? Will Thai owned condos be able to be sold to farangs who want to start new companies? Sounds to me like it would be a very different situation now.

Firstly, I very much doubt that a significant proportion of the condo market is owned by farang through a company.

Secondly, according to Sunbelt Asia:

A number of Land offices are allowing foreigners who are holding shares of a Thai company to buy land today and yesterday as one officer stated " it was quite clear that the purpose of this new rule is to curtail the property developer who are foreigners who set up company first with the objective to buy land for office or for home then apply for objective changes to be real estate development."

Case in point, a Thai company bought land today. Even though these Thai shareholders would ready to show their proof of income, the officer waved the proof off, while he stated " no need as this is for buying a office and land for a import export company NOT real estate development” This was a Thai company with 49% foreigners and a Foreign Director. We are hearing other reports of the same.

Given the above, I tend to conclude it will be business as usual in the condo market; the ruling, as I read it, is aimed solely at thwarting the ambitions of ‘make a fast baht and move on’ property developers.

I am actually surprised that the manic ‘Crackdown!’ cry has not yet been voiced, as the posters with the mental agility of retarded amoebae prepare to top themselves over a slanted newspaper article.

Also, several renters who never have and never will have the funds to buy even a Wendy house are also delighting in their perceived demise of those that have, as they trot out their ‘I told you so!’ lines with predictable relish.

There may possibly be some casualties in certain sectors of the property market but, in general, much ado about nothing methinks…

[Cpt_M0ney_Sh0t]

I do not understand the remark "the day the property boom ended". There must be some property agency behind this statement. In any civilized country it is common that one proves his or her source of income. The fact that people could laundry their money in Thailand has caused the country not only an image problem, but for who has not noticed it. Half of Pattaya is occupied by the Russian mob, the Dutch Mafia, The German underworld, or the English cammora. I would think it was about time, that there came an end to this kind of unwanted property boom, that drove legitimate investors and locals into the sea.

How the hel_l can one be a legitimate investor if you can't legitimately own?!?!?

[Jimbo551]

This is basically the wealthly elite saying we have had enough of foreign real estate developers and there excellient salesmenship and building standards. They need to be done with, and in will step the Thai (and yes probably Chinese-Thai developers) to copy the business models of all the foreigners in Phuket, Pattaya, Samui and the rest.

They don't mind that foreigners are being overcharged for housing, but they are mighty pissed that they are not the ones doing the overcharging.

And if they do - who will they sell to? If they destroy confidence in the market no one will come here. I know that TIT and "logic" does not translate here, but given that the foreign real estate investors have brought so much money into the country and there should be so much more to follow, what will be the conesequences of these actions?

I cannot accept that this is being instigated by Thai developers as that would be killing the Goose that laid the Golden Egg and most Thai developers I have met are well aware that their market is the foreigner with money, not their fellow Thais.

This must be coming from Politicians who did not buy vast tracts of land in the most popular locations and who cannot get their snouts in the trough. It comes from jealousy - someone has done what they were not capable of.

That does not in anyway alter the legal situation and how it is applied in different parts of the country. However, and this is a vain hope because it is logical, surely the best solution to the issue for the Thai people would be to allow foreign ownership, possibly in restricted areas (as for example the Channel Islands) but impose a specific real estate tax for foreigners payment of which was a requirement for their continued ownership of the land. This would create income for the government, security for the land owner and would be calculable in assessing the cost of investment.

[DisainaM]

so, only the farangs with a thai passport are save -)

Edited May 31, 2006 by DisainaM

[Thaiquila]

In any case in regards to the effect on the condo market, uncertainty is not good for any market as the more nervous Nellies among us will tend to back away, perhaps for good. Also, in popular tourist areas, you do see lots of company owned condos for sale, so I suspect the percentage in some buildings is not so insignificant.

[macam]

Ok! We seem to be going around in circles here regarding property purchase and ownership, there is a lot of very good post “but” what about Mr and Mrs falang who want to retire here with there two up two down, swimming pool and dog, why should they even consider Thailand with the mine field of property ownership and lets be honest who can they trust?

Macam

[xbusman]

Reading these posts make for great entertainment. Amazing to me how many people will study the purchase of a DVD player to the most minute detail but fail to sit down with long long term old timers in Thailand to get their lay of the land. One of the reasons I really like this board, we have some experienced posters that give for free what 20 years at Harvard cant teach, wisdom hard earned from experience.

Lets agree on the basics. With very very few exceptions, we are guests in a foreign country without the rights, benefits and privileges of the citizenry. We have other informal benefits, but no legal standing or rights in a country where the rule of law is often arbitrary and erratic. They can show up tomorrow and give us a free ride to the airport with the shirt on our back and hopefully time to grab the passport. It happens, and worse, far worse.

For a variety of reasons we have decided to live here, but to do so requires a complete and honest understanding of our status and the condtions. If you come to terms with the bargain and conduct your life accordingly, the wisdom of the hard-and-fast-rule-never-to-be-broken is patently obvious.

NEVER PUT MORE INTO THAILAND THAN YOU ARE ABLE AND WILLING TO WALK AWAY FROM

To break this rule is the mark of a fool and we all know a fool and his money is soon parted. To those I say simply SOM NA NA.

If you must own property and invest your life savings in Thailand, then the path is clearly laid out. Become a citizen. Pay the fees, study the language, make the applications, swear the oath, walk the path from being a guest of HM to becoming a subject of HM. I have met a few who have done it, its not impossible and from the sounds of it hardly even difficult. Then you can buy property, vote, pay taxes, and enjoy the protections of being a citizen.

[Alex2353]

I agree entirely with your comments. I bought just before Christmas in Nontaburi. I provided the funds but own nothing.

My new shiny car is registered in my wifes name also.

I have contributed a lot of money to the Thai economy like may other foreigners and I resent having to report to immigration every 90 days like a common criminal.

Many times I ask myself, why do we foreiners decide to live here, for what? My destinct impression is that it is all take, take , and more take here and absolutely no give.

I am not too happy eithrr about my arshole Thai Step Son getting his mits on our house when we both pass on, but what can I do?

As they say, you make your own bed and have got to lay on it.

[Terminator]

post of the day, this clearly says it all along

Firstly this idea of having money or assets stashed away under nominees names like servants and drivers was perfected by the Prime Minister himself. His maid and driver were both billionaires and real estate tycoons.

Secondly, there is a paranoia from certain farangs about being cheated as if Thais themselves don't get cheated. Many don't realize 75% of money held in Thai banks is actually held by the rich ethnic Chinese moguls like Thaksin. They didn't accumulate this wealth by fair and ethical business practices.

A massive majority of shares on the Thai share market are owned by Thai politicions and their families. Many of the Thai Rak Thai party are ethnic Chinese and it costs a minimum 15 million baht just to join the party elite.

A cabinet position or ministry post costs from tens of millions up to hundreds of millions depending of the level of graft on offer. A percentage must be then paid back into the party from all kick backs. Under Thaksin corruption has been made into a business model.

The Shinawatra family own a property portfolio that is staggering. It would take pages and pages just to list how much these parasites own. To suggest Thais are not cheated is wrong. They are cheated much more than farangs. The Thai is no more than a serf under his Chinese lord in many places.

My Thai nephew is a high ranking land official in Phuket. He recently told me the biggest crooks in Phuket now are farangs. The prices being asked for condos and houses built by some farangs are way over priced. I have seen farang agents asking 30 to 40 million for houses that cost no more than 4 or 5 to build. This has become a disease in Thailand and pushed prices to silly levels. The crash of land prices is inevitable like in 1997.

Move 1 hour from Phuket and you can build a mansion for 3-5 including land and pool. I actually think there should be a crack down on farang agents as they often advertise a house on the net for double what it is worth. They know who they are. There are a number of them in Phuket.

Every country has its shifty bastards and Thailand has both local and imported varieties. I first came to Thailand aged 22 in 1984. At 44 I have seen farangs lose Bars, resorts, cars, motorbikes, houses and condos. Most of them were fools who married bar girls half their age in the mistaken idea the girl actually gave two hoots about them. I still see women running places I know they ripped off farangs. Most just blow the money and return to the bars.

In many parts of Issan it is part of the culture to find and rob the farang. It has become an epidemic in places like Roi Et, Korart and Surin where whole villages have been taken over by farang built homes. I am constantly shocked by guys who send large amounts of money to places where the average wage is 100 baht per day. They then are surprised people turn into gold diggers.

There are many trustworthy Thais who are decent people. My nephew acts as nominee for a number of Singaporeans and Malaysians who own houses in Phuket. You can always draw up loan contract between your spouse and dear self with the house as your collateral that can be sold by your lawyer if the loan is unpaid. A Thai must own the land, there is nothing stopping a farang owning what sits on the land.

Then there is a 30 year by 2 lease. If your wife rips you off after 60 years so be it. You'll be either 95 or dead anyway. Many of the farangs in Thailand never get out of Patpong, Patong or Pattaya except on a visa run. They mix with hookers/freelancers and assorted gold diggers that manifest in all tourist areas. Here the majority of girls are Lao or Issan from poor backgrounds. They shower poor Noi or Dang with amounts of money they have never had. They then are surprised when the girl sees the opportunity to get a house, car or any other trinket that has always seemed impossible to get. They train the girl to get dependant on a lot of money.

Thai society is in a terrible mess. A lot of it is because of the rampant corruption and social system that is basically fuedal. All government jobs and positions must be bought. Policemen and army officers are promoted by pay offs or family ties. Patronage and nepotism are out of control under Thaksin. There are no real role models in Thai society or in the media, just parasites, sychophants and social climbers.

Thailand is a place to spend and enjoy your money. Not a place to make any. This has been my rule for over 20 years. This is even more so under <deleted> Thaksin. Many farangs have no idea of what or who the decent Thais are. Most Thais have no idea of what or who the decent farangs are.

I see farangs showering bar girls with gifts, phones and gold trinkets while never leaving even 100 baht tip for the maid who cleans their room daily. They scream and shout of rip offs if they are charged 20 baht more for a taxi but happily fork over 1500 baht to some girl for the night.

If you can speak Thai like many here no doubt can, you know many locals see farangs as deluded. They whinge about paying a bit more to enter a tourist attraction but are happy to spend 1000 baht at a bar or on a girl. I see both sides of the coin and certain farangs are very ugly people in Thailand. Sixty year old men chasing 25 year olds thinking they are studs. Just fools in many cases.

P.S why does Thaksin pay 200 baht for a haircut?

50 baht per corner.

[xbusman]

Ok! We seem to be going around in circles here regarding property purchase and ownership, there is a lot of very good post “but” what about Mr and Mrs falang who want to retire here with there two up two down, swimming pool and dog, why should they even consider Thailand with the mine field of property ownership and lets be honest who can they trust?

Mr and Mrs farang are invited to purchase a condo as long as not more than 49% of the condos in the property are owned by other farangs. They must realize that they are buying a condo in a third world country, not Brighton or Miami, and as such could lose the entire investment in a matter of minutes. Therefore, it would not be wise for them to invest a satang more than they could comfortably throw away and not notice a differance in their life style.

If they must buy a house, then they are not welcome here and should look at other countries with differant property laws. They should not consider Thailand and its in everyones best interest to dissuade them from even considering the kingdom.

[logbags]

Relatives stealing land off other relatives has become a serious problem now the price of land has become so high. Many relatives living on land belonging to others refuse to move or want to sub-divide to make some money. Land poaching is a serious problem and land borders must be policed very tightly or you will find a row off coconuts growing ten metres inside your boundary if you are not vigilant.

Thailand has moved from a village based community to a more westernised "every man for himself" style where personal wealth and the trappings of a modern lifestyle are very much demanded by the new generation, even in the provinces. I think Thailand is a very rich country. The problem lies in its political and civil service where no project or development can take place without payoffs to politicions and their cronies. This leads to shonky work and unreliable service. Not to mention a lopsided, totally divided society of the haves and have nots.

I remember my wife was trying to get a document signed by a land official many years ago. This man would break appointments, leave for lunch and simply ignore any request for assistance. This went on for a week until my wife threatened to go to Bangkok and see his department head to complain. He was simply waiting for a bribe and hinted at this several times. My wife was a local and I wasn't there. It was simply a Thai official extorting a bribe. Most Thai just pay and accept it as normal practices. This simply has got way out of control under the current government.

I have been married to a Thai since 1985. She has residence and is a land and business owner in Australia where she has full rights. I have no rights at all in Thailand. None. If I was a farang woman married to a Thai man I would have full rights. A child born to a Thai woman and farang and a child from a Thai man and farang women have different rights. This can be a bit hard to swallow.

My advice to would-be investors is this. Keep your money at home and rent in Thailand. If you must buy, make sure you have a sound family and relationship. Buy a modest home so if things go pear shaped you haven't got all your eggs in the one basket. Always have an escape plan and never bring all you have to Thailand. Avoid personal dealings with any official, police, army or politicion if possible. Let Thais sort out their own problems. Find a dependable local lawyer and always negotiate his fee and get it in writing first if doing any legal transaction. Do your business through your lawyer and use a Thai relative as frontman if possible.

Above all learn to speak Thai correctly and dress up well if doing business. The whole Thai mind is influenced by appearance and speech. If you know how to speak Thai well you can move mountains in regards to being accepted. I have resolved and defused many disputes between Thais and farangs with a few well chosen words. Thai people can be some of the sweetest souls if handled correctly. They can become murderous if made upset or made to look stupid. Thais respect maturity and a cool head. In Thai they say "sia mark sia ngai, sia noi sia yark." This mean you spend a lot easily and spend a little the hard way. This is because they see farangs spending up on booze and women but whinge about a poor tuk tuk driver asking 20 baht more. Keep it in perspective. Don't be a fool with your money but don't whine over small change. Most Thais of the lower financial rungs really appreaciate a 20- 50 baht tip.

Lastly don't blame the individual for the system. Most Thais are friendly people one on one. Many have no choice but to work in a corrupt system. My own relatives have been in jail for murder, drugs or taken huge kick backs and worked in this system. They tell me they know they are wrong but have no choice as if they don't play ball they are removed from their position or socially isolated. Thailand is full of the graves of would be whistle blowers. It takes big balls to take on corruption issues in Thailand. It will sort itself out one way or another in its own time.

[Arkady]

Mr Bojangles and others who have bought land in their Thai wives' names have also broken the law along with their wives, unless the wife made a truthful declaration to the Land Dept that she used her own financial resources to purchase the land. This applies to Thai women married to or in a common law relationship with an alien man. It doesn't apply to Thai men in a similar relationship with an alien woman (or man), even though this is unlawful discrimination under the 1997 constitution. You are probably in a safer situation than those who have used companies but, if they get really anal about, who knows?

[Terminator]

and of course there is always malaysia, which welcomes retirees withn open arms and long-term retirement visa's.

i think this whole issue is about the unavoidable and up-comming property crash, which i believe will be bigger that 1997/8, property has become way to overpriced, i mean selling a 2-bedroom condo for bt25m, which you would have to rent out at least for bt.150,000 a month, which is absolutly stupid considering i live two doors down in a similar condo for bt.12,000 a month.

its for that reason alone i never will buy in thailand, i rent on a 10-year lease paid-up front, paid for by my properties in australia and europe, which i fully control though my off-shore structures, not through half hearted loop-hooled corporatians in thailand!

btw. my friend in the property business says sales have been gettiing lower and lower over the past 6-months!

Reading these posts make for great entertainment. Amazing to me how many people will study the purchase of a DVD player to the most minute detail but fail to sit down with long long term old timers in Thailand to get their lay of the land. One of the reasons I really like this board, we have some experienced posters that give for free what 20 years at Harvard cant teach, wisdom hard earned from experience.

Lets agree on the basics. With very very few exceptions, we are guests in a foreign country without the rights, benefits and privileges of the citizenry. We have other informal benefits, but no legal standing or rights in a country where the rule of law is often arbitrary and erratic. They can show up tomorrow and give us a free ride to the airport with the shirt on our back and hopefully time to grab the passport. It happens, and worse, far worse.

For a variety of reasons we have decided to live here, but to do so requires a complete and honest understanding of our status and the condtions. If you come to terms with the bargain and conduct your life accordingly, the wisdom of the hard-and-fast-rule-never-to-be-broken is patently obvious.

NEVER PUT MORE INTO THAILAND THAN YOU ARE ABLE AND WILLING TO WALK AWAY FROM

To break this rule is the mark of a fool and we all know a fool and his money is soon parted. To those I say simply SOM NA NA.

If you must own property and invest your life savings in Thailand, then the path is clearly laid out. Become a citizen. Pay the fees, study the language, make the applications, swear the oath, walk the path from being a guest of HM to becoming a subject of HM. I have met a few who have done it, its not impossible and from the sounds of it hardly even difficult. Then you can buy property, vote, pay taxes, and enjoy the protections of being a citizen.

[Terminator]

tell them to check malaysia "my second home program"

RETIREMENT IN MALAYSIA : MALAYASIA MY SECOND HOME

The Malaysia my second home program is to allow people from all over the world, who fulfill certain criterias, to stay in Malaysia as long as possible on a social visit pass with multiple entry visa. The Social Visit Pass is initially for a period of 5 years and renewable.

WHO IS ELIGIBLE TO APPLY FOR MALAYSIA MY SECOND HOME?

Malaysia my second home is open to all citizens of countries recognized by Malaysia regardless of race, religion, gender or age.

The applicant must prove a minimum fixed deposit of RM150,000 if single with any Malaysian financial institution AND have a monthly offshore income equivalent to at least RM7,000 if single or RM10,000 if with spouse. But if applicant is above 50 years old, he has only to prove either a fixed deposit of the same amount OR a monthly income as stated.

Ok! We seem to be going around in circles here regarding property purchase and ownership, there is a lot of very good post “but” what about Mr and Mrs falang who want to retire here with there two up two down, swimming pool and dog, why should they even consider Thailand with the mine field of property ownership and lets be honest who can they trust?

Mr and Mrs farang are invited to purchase a condo as long as not more than 49% of the condos in the property are owned by other farangs. They must realize that they are buying a condo in a third world country, not Brighton or Miami, and as such could lose the entire investment in a matter of minutes. Therefore, it would not be wise for them to invest a satang more than they could comfortably throw away and not notice a differance in their life style.

If they must buy a house, then they are not welcome here and should look at other countries with differant property laws. They should not consider Thailand and its in everyones best interest to dissuade them from even considering the kingdom.

[Arkady]

Yep, you can be left your wife's land, you have 12 months to dispose of it...

Obviously you are entitled to the full proceeds of the sale...

This is correct, as far as I know. Thai inheritance law is also unusually helpful in allowing foreigners inheriting property or other assets in Thailand to remit the proceeds from selling it overseas, although I expect a lot of red tape and hassle would be involved for a large amount. On the other hand land cannot be considered part of the conjugal property to be divided in the case of a divorce between a Thai and an alien.

[scapegoat]

Always be the boss in a relationship with a Thai woman.

sound like you need new wife if you not trust her

[Galong]

Here is the English translation of the Thai National Anthem. Take a look at the second verse.

National Anthem:

The music of the Thai national anthem was composed in 1932 by Professor Phra Jenduriyang and its lyrics were written in 1939 by Colonel Luang Saranuprabhandi.

"Thailand is the unity of Thai blood and body.

The whole country belongs to the Thai people, maintaining thus far for the Thai.

All Thais intend to unite together.

Thais love peace but do not fear to fight.

They will never let anyone threaten their independence.

They will sacrifice every drop of their blood to contribute to the nation, will serve their country with pride and prestige full of victory.

CHAI YO. [Cheers].

LL

Wow llso, thanks for the translation... very scary stuff that.

"their independence" has not only been threatened, but completely ignored by the Chinese. They've been colonlized from the inside and many don't even realize it.

"the whole country belongs to the Thai people..." Well, that explains the land policies doesn't it.

[LoveDaBlues]

A little off topic......but are there ANY Asian countries where a foreigner CAN own land?

[rexall]

i live two doors down in a similar condo for bt.12,000 a month . . . i rent on a 10-year lease paid-up front, .

How safe is this? Is it "really" safe, or does it only appear to be safe because, so far, it hasn't managed to piss anyone off? Is the lease a real asset? You paid Bt1.2mil. Could you legally sell to me for Bt2.0mil?

What happens to your position if the owner sells the property and the new owner evicts?

What happens if this becomes a popular option and the gov gets upset that so much property seems to be tied up for decades by falang?

Seriously. I'm not trying to be provocative, I curious to know the answers.

Aloha,

Rex

[Phil Conners]

Relatives stealing land off other relatives has become a serious problem now the price of land has become so high. Many relatives living on land belonging to others refuse to move or want to sub-divide to make some money. Land poaching is a serious problem and land borders must be policed very tightly or you will find a row off coconuts growing ten metres inside your boundary if you are not vigilant.

Thailand has moved from a village based community to a more westernised "every man for himself" style where personal wealth and the trappings of a modern lifestyle are very much demanded by the new generation, even in the provinces. I think Thailand is a very rich country. The problem lies in its political and civil service where no project or development can take place without payoffs to politicions and their cronies. This leads to shonky work and unreliable service. Not to mention a lopsided, totally divided society of the haves and have nots.

I remember my wife was trying to get a document signed by a land official many years ago. This man would break appointments, leave for lunch and simply ignore any request for assistance. This went on for a week until my wife threatened to go to Bangkok and see his department head to complain. He was simply waiting for a bribe and hinted at this several times. My wife was a local and I wasn't there. It was simply a Thai official extorting a bribe. Most Thai just pay and accept it as normal practices. This simply has got way out of control under the current government.

I have been married to a Thai since 1985. She has residence and is a land and business owner in Australia where she has full rights. I have no rights at all in Thailand. None. If I was a farang woman married to a Thai man I would have full rights. A child born to a Thai woman and farang and a child from a Thai man and farang women have different rights. This can be a bit hard to swallow.

My advice to would-be investors is this. Keep your money at home and rent in Thailand. If you must buy, make sure you have a sound family and relationship. Buy a modest home so if things go pear shaped you haven't got all your eggs in the one basket. Always have an escape plan and never bring all you have to Thailand. Avoid personal dealings with any official, police, army or politicion if possible. Let Thais sort out their own problems. Find a dependable local lawyer and always negotiate his fee and get it in writing first if doing any legal transaction. Do your business through your lawyer and use a Thai relative as frontman if possible.

Above all learn to speak Thai correctly and dress up well if doing business. The whole Thai mind is influenced by appearance and speech. If you know how to speak Thai well you can move mountains in regards to being accepted. I have resolved and defused many disputes between Thais and farangs with a few well chosen words. Thai people can be some of the sweetest souls if handled correctly. They can become murderous if made upset or made to look stupid. Thais respect maturity and a cool head. In Thai they say "sia mark sia ngai, sia noi sia yark." This mean you spend a lot easily and spend a little the hard way. This is because they see farangs spending up on booze and women but whinge about a poor tuk tuk driver asking 20 baht more. Keep it in perspective. Don't be a fool with your money but don't whine over small change. Most Thais of the lower financial rungs really appreaciate a 20- 50 baht tip.

Lastly don't blame the individual for the system. Most Thais are friendly people one on one. Many have no choice but to work in a corrupt system. My own relatives have been in jail for murder, drugs or taken huge kick backs and worked in this system. They tell me they know they are wrong but have no choice as if they don't play ball they are removed from their position or socially isolated. Thailand is full of the graves of would be whistle blowers. It takes big balls to take on corruption issues in Thailand. It will sort itself out one way or another in its own time.

Excellent post, but you're wrong on one point: "A child born to a Thai woman and farang and a child from a Thai man and farang women have different rights.". If the kid is registered in Thailand it can have full Thai citizenship whether the mother or the father is Thai.

[Arkady]

i live two doors down in a similar condo for bt.12,000 a month . . . i rent on a 10-year lease paid-up front, .

How safe is this? Is it "really" safe, or does it only appear to be safe because, so far, it hasn't managed to piss anyone off? Is the lease a real asset? You paid Bt1.2mil. Could you legally sell to me for Bt2.0mil?

What happens to your position if the owner sells the property and the new owner evicts?

What happens if this becomes a popular option and the gov gets upset that so much property seems to be tied up for decades by falang?

Seriously. I'm not trying to be provocative, I curious to know the answers.

Aloha,

Rex

Yes, you should legally be able to sell a lease, unless the terms of the lease prevent it. You will also have to pay tax on the proceeds according to the Land Dept's convoluted formula. I suppose you would have to sue for compensation if you were evicted. Presumably you will have the lease drafted yourself, so that finding legal reasons for your eviction would be tough. Also your long term lease on a peppercorn rent would normally make it difficult to sell the property, although it might be sold to a mafia type who knows how to deal with uncooperative tenants. Remember that to be legally enforcable leases must be registered with the Land Dept which involves paying tax on their appraised value of the lease. The Land Dept will not register a lease of more than 30 years. Options to renew beyond 30 years are unenforceable.

[niggle]

Upbeat

Ok I agree it is all a mess and worrying right now BUT

like anywhere lawyers will eventually find a way out of this for us purchasers. OK it may be less secure that before (it was always insecure) but we have a choice to make here if we really want to live in Thailand.

I am told by a laywer that changes to the company set up will be needed.

You pays yer money and you takes yer choice.

IGive it a few weeks and things will get sorted out, for sure they dont want to lose the foreign land purchaser although they may make it tighter legally for us.

[jaapfries]

"Because I intend to squeeze you. I don't like your kind of people. I don't like to see you come out to this clean country in your oily hair -- dressed up in those silk suits - and try to pass yourselves off as decent Americans. I'll do business with you, but the fact is, I despise your masquerade -- the dishonest way you pose yourself. Yourself, and your whole ######ing family."

===============================================================

The Australian writer of the above "rubbish" must have been hit by a Kangeroo once to often . . . . ?

The expression that jumps to mind here: "what's that got to do with the price of fish ? ? ? ? ?"

Get out of the sun, ozzie and try and smell the roses !

[Terminator]

i set-up a private agreement between my lawyer and the owner (who by the way is thai and lives overseas), i am now in the 6th year and have had no problems so far.

if the owner wishes to sell he has to give me first option to buy, or the new owner has to take over the balance of the agreement. personally i can only transfer the lease if in agreement with the owner and then only under distressed circumstances, but then again i have no intention to sell it.

obviously there is a lot more to it than that, but then again i am not about to spill out all my beans!

i live two doors down in a similar condo for bt.12,000 a month . . . i rent on a 10-year lease paid-up front, .

How safe is this? Is it "really" safe, or does it only appear to be safe because, so far, it hasn't managed to piss anyone off? Is the lease a real asset? You paid Bt1.2mil. Could you legally sell to me for Bt2.0mil?

What happens to your position if the owner sells the property and the new owner evicts?

What happens if this becomes a popular option and the gov gets upset that so much property seems to be tied up for decades by falang?

Seriously. I'm not trying to be provocative, I curious to know the answers.

Aloha,

Rex

[Dragonman]

Mr Bojangles and others who have bought land in their Thai wives' names have also broken the law along with their wives, unless the wife made a truthful declaration to the Land Dept that she used her own financial resources to purchase the land. This applies to Thai women married to or in a common law relationship with an alien man. It doesn't apply to Thai men in a similar relationship with an alien woman (or man), even though this is unlawful discrimination under the 1997 constitution. You are probably in a safer situation than those who have used companies but, if they get really anal about, who knows?

I can't be bothered to look through my 1999 Land Code Amendments again, as they are numerous. But from my recollection the Constitutional Court did not specify husbands and wives. The Land Office Declaration should be made by the "legally married or illegally married spouse" of a Thai National!

LoveDaBlues. Yes Malaysia.

My only comment on the subject of the original thread is that investigations are long overdue, and it comes to something, that a Government Deputy Director has to formally remind the Land Department to do it's job.

[Sir Burr]

Remember that to be legally enforcable leases must be registered with the Land Dept which involves paying tax on their appraised value of the lease. The Land Dept will not register a lease of more than 30 years. Options to renew beyond 30 years are unenforceable.

I wish more people would understand this. So many developements advertise 30 + 30 year leases. Some even 30 + 30 + 30 years. All bullshit.

[LoveDaBlues]

Thanks Dragonman. I'll start looking at Malaysia as a possible retirement location. Just renting here so far; I don't really want to get involved with owning property here and having to worry about the laws......just a nervous nellie I guess!

[thestirfry]

So should anyone who has land or houses try to sell them asap?

Sorry if it already says somewhere, i have not read all of the post yet!

[Dragonman]

Thanks Dragonman. I'll start looking at Malaysia as a possible retirement location. Just renting here so far; I don't really want to get involved with owning property here and having to worry about the laws......just a nervous nellie I guess!

There are restrictions in some areas regarding land for Malays only, also you can only purchase 2 houses with a maximum value assessed by the Government. But nothing like the other South East Asian countries.They even have a Government Department to encourage foreign development!

[mrbojangles]

Mr Bojangles and others who have bought land in their Thai wives' names have also broken the law along with their wives, unless the wife made a truthful declaration to the Land Dept that she used her own financial resources to purchase the land.

I can't be bothered to look through my 1999 Land Code Amendments again, as they are numerous. But from my recollection the Constitutional Court did not specify husbands and wives. The Land Office Declaration should be made by the "legally married or illegally married spouse" of a Thai National!

Arkady, no laws broken here buddy. I signed a paper stating that the money was hers and not from me. As i said earlier it is an amount i can walk away from without any worries should the worst ever happen.

But interestingly, we didn't have to prove where the money had come from, just had to sign a piece of paper. Could this be the next step that the Government will be thinking of? Stop Farang wives even buying land, unless they can PROVE, where they got the money? Just a thought