PDRC calls DSI to file treason charge against red-shirts in Chiang Mai

[pmugghc]

I would not worry too much about it, hasn't Suthep and Abhisit got arrest warrants out for them for a number of charges including murder and nothing has been done about that for months. I think if they arrested every one that has been charged and have warrants out for them they would have to build a few more prisons.

Can you please provide a link to when arrest warrants for murder were issued for Suthep and Abhisit?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[DirtFarmer]

I was slightly rooting for the PDRC but this makes me think twice. I consider it freedom of speech to discuss such a thing and if the majority of the thai people agrees with it then I don't see any harm.

Why do they always have to use strong words here like treason, rebellion or defamation.

Well actually in this case calling for the formation of a republic is treason under the current laws

The PDRC was actually trying to get rid of a government, which is debatable as to whether this is actually treason, or not, because it never involved a certain other gentleman, however the Reds have elevated this to a whole new level which is definitely treason

Article 68 of the Constitution, which criminalizes any attempt to challenge the democratic regime with the King As Head of State...so If in fact YL was a duly elected Prime Minister (given) in a Democratic regime (given) PDRC is guilty as charged...Not sure if they used treason in their charges against Suthep I am not privy to the documents but we did hear words like sedition and treason quoted at that time...so isn't this a bit of a double standard...? shouldn't all incendiary factions be held accountable to the same benchmark...? sorry I forgot where I was for a moment...,my bad...

Edited March 3, 2014 by DirtFarmer

[DirtFarmer]

I would not worry too much about it, hasn't Suthep and Abhisit got arrest warrants out for them for a number of charges including murder and nothing has been done about that for months. I think if they arrested every one that has been charged and have warrants out for them they would have to build a few more prisons.

Can you please provide a link to when arrest warrants for murder were issued for Suthep and Abhisit?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Abhiset has already been to court in December to acknowledge the charges of Murder against him Suthep was charged at the same time ...he however has refused to appear because he was inciting the "good People... can easily Google Abhiset Suthep Murder charges... incidentally filed by the State Attorney General's Office... an independent agency

Edited March 3, 2014 by DirtFarmer

[pmugghc]

I would not worry too much about it, hasn't Suthep and Abhisit got arrest warrants out for them for a number of charges including murder and nothing has been done about that for months. I think if they arrested every one that has been charged and have warrants out for them they would have to build a few more prisons.

Can you please provide a link to when arrest warrants for murder were issued for Suthep and Abhisit?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Abhiset has already been to court in December to acknowledge the charges of Murder against him Suthep was charged at the same time ...he however has refused to appear because he was inciting the "good People... can easily Google Abhiset Suthep Murder charges... incidentally filed by the State Attorney General's Office... an independent agency

Do you know the difference of "arrest warrant" and "indictment"? Don't think you do!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[scorecard]

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what about same for PDRC blocking Royal Decree for elections?

I'm glad you agree that the red shirts suggesting secession should be charged with treason.

I think the point being made is that for a group which has actually committed sedition in attempting to overthrow an elected government and may well be facing charges, it is slightly odd to be flinging treason charges at others in respect of some loose talk about a theoretical possibility.

So in your world, charges for dangerous driving causing death should never be filed, because others have driven dangerously and never been charged. Tell that to the folks (with all respect to them) who have just lost their children in the very recent dreadful bus crash.

And I would have no doubt that you would be a poster boy for no double standards.

[smovi57]

Looks like the PDRC and the Army are spouting off with no reason.

The Sor Por Por Lanna "group" denied denied allegations that it wants to split Thailand and form a people's democratic republic in the North at 10.30pm on Sunday on, where else, Facebook.

Apparently, Sor Por Por Lanna stands for Samatcha Pokpong Prachatipatai Lanna, or the Lanna Assembly for the Defence of Democracy. For those who can read thai the link is here http://prachatai.com/journal/2013/12/50754

thats b.s. they are cleaning up what they said. To stay away from trouble.

[citizen33]

Wonder what SNP and Plaid members will make of this thread. and whether they will be crossing Thailand off their holiday destination list - life imprisonment or death sounds a tad on the steep side.

Note for non-Brits; The Scottish Nationalist and Plaid Cymru (Wales) Parties advocate independence for their respective countries, but have been a familiar and accepted part of the UK political landscape for decades.

Edited March 3, 2014 by citizen33

[ianf]

And in the UK

" The Scottish independence party have been taken to the Tower"

exactly - free speech should be the foundation in any democracy

I don't think this is about freedom of speech. Even that, though, has it's limits. For example, you cannot walk onto the streets of any civil democracy and call for the gassing of any particular minority.

Here the red shirts' separatist movement - another of Thaksin's stupid and destructive ploys - are not proposing this for any historical or rational reason. They are proposing it, on their own admission, simply to create a republic with Thaksin as head of state. Sedition? Yes, 100%. Treason? Yes, 100%.

No comparison with the Scots' independence movement! That's just stretching a point too far!!

[LeamchabangLarry]

what about same for PDRC blocking Royal Decree for elections?

Its not a threat to national security.

Well I would say that it is a threat & untill a little set of elite morons started all this ,any mutterings was kept low key . They are trying to steal peoples votes so what do you expect . The fact that the fruitcake thinks he knows better than 70 million people says it is he who is doing treason. With the king as head of state tagged on the end like it was an after thought just to try to give the ellusion that under them the King will still have a major role. Treason by the back door.

go away Pipkins

[OZEMADE]

I would not worry too much about it, hasn't Suthep and Abhisit got arrest warrants out for them for a number of charges including murder and nothing has been done about that for months. I think if they arrested every one that has been charged and have warrants out for them they would have to build a few more prisons.

Abhisit has no outstanding arrest warrants. He went to court the last time he was summonsed.

So are you saying Abhisit is off the hook for the murders and Suthep is now dangling with I think it was 90 or 99 murders over his head from 2010.

Where did I say he was off the hook? I said he has no outstanding arrest warrants. That doesn't mean he doesn't have outstanding court proceedings.

99 murders? I asked someone else to explain how they came up with that number, but he doesn't seem to be able to. Maybe you can?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/708184-dsi-to-seek-arrest-warrant-for-suthep-on-99-counts-of-murder/

[OZEMADE]

I would not worry too much about it, hasn't Suthep and Abhisit got arrest warrants out for them for a number of charges including murder and nothing has been done about that for months. I think if they arrested every one that has been charged and have warrants out for them they would have to build a few more prisons.

Can you please provide a link to when arrest warrants for murder were issued for Suthep and Abhisit?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Post 96 also acknowledges where both of them were to answer charges of murder.

I believe it was on the TVF a couple of months ago where they were both charged, I cant be bothered looking it up.

It may be of more interest to you.

[visionchaser45]

Aren't the PDRC leaders currently facing sedition charges? This current request is sort of like the pot calling the kettle black again. The only difference is that the PDRC leaders are acting against the current, legitimately elected government. The Reds are proposing to act against a coup that ousts the legitimately elected government. In such a situation, the PDRC bears the greater burden and should be facing prosecution first.

[visionchaser45]

Section 113 of the Criminal Code deals with actions deemed intended to abolish or change the Constitution, topple the legislative, executive and judicial powers under the constitution, or separate the land or take over the administration of it. A violator is liable to life imprisonment or death.

You tell me which side that sounds like to you.

Because it "deals with ACTIONS"..."intended to "topple the...legislative, executive...," I would say it sounds more like the PDRC side is guilty as sin. The Reds are at the words stage, whereas the PDRC has been in the ACTIONS stage for quite some time now.

[awakewarrior]

UN HUMAN RIGHTS COUNCIL
Twenty fifth session, Agenda Item 3, General Debate

The UN emphasized the regularization of the crisis of freedom of expression, and noted that constriction of speech had become constitutive of political and social life in Thailand.

The UN warned that the routine denial of bail and the use of vague references to national security to attempt to legitimize the violation of the human rights of those with dissident views had become normalized. In this statement, the Asian Legal Centre wishes to alert the Human Rights Council to ongoing developments that indicate the urgency, and growing difficulty, of addressing the crisis of freedom of expression in Thailand.

The Thai state should uphold Article 19 of the ICCPR, in particular, paragraph 1, which guarantees that,

“Everyone shall have the right to hold opinions without interference,” and paragraph 2, which guarantees that,

“Everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of his choice.”

It is imperative that the Thai state’s protection of the rights guaranteed in Article 19 and the remainder of the ICCPR be active, rather than passive. Upholding the ICCPR necessarily entails protecting those whose views are dissident and ensuring that they can safely exercise their political freedom. Failure to do so will signal to vigilante actors that attacking those who hold different views are acceptable within the Thai polity.

Urge the Government of Thailand to allow and support the full exercise of freedom of expression and political freedom, consistent with the terms of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, to which it is a signatory, and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, to which it is a state party.

[cocopops]

For Pete's sake! It was a throwaway remark made by an obscure &lt;deleted&gt; who's only claim to relevancy is belonging to a tiny activist group that virtually nobody had even heard of before now.

If there were even the remotest chance that saying these sort of things might actually lead to problems, I would support reigning this fellow in using one law or another - although "treason" still seems a bit over the top. But there isn't. Frankly I'd be quite surprised to find that the guy who actually said it, let alone anybody else, takes the idea seriously.

The suggestion that you could muster any level of support for secession from the Kingdom in Chiang Mai is risible. Folks who say otherwise are not discussing the real world, they are playing childish games.

It was a throwaway remark?

So what do you call the red shirt army recruitment offices that are springing up like mushrooms in October??

What do you call the red shirts wearing bandanas declaring a split of the nation, riding around on motor scooters with their 'pro-separatist' flags, that was happening on the arrival of YL in Chiang Rai AND Chiang Mai??

What do you call all the social media support from UDD affiliated red shirts???

What is the exact aim of this huge army being built up and 'armed' according to demands from the leader of the PTP and interior minister????

I'd say that this was the first I'd heard of any of it.

There is a "red-shirt army" being built up and armed at the behest of PTP figures? And they have recruitment offices? And that the separatist movement is apparently so well supported that they brazenly fly flags from their motorcycles in Chiang Mai?

I'm interested in all these things, if there is any truth to them. Anybody gotta link?

go back over the news threads for the past week.

Especially where they refer to Chuapong's call for a massive army of 'armed' red shirts to be mobilized and ready to fight to the death.... you know Churapong? Caretaker Interior Minister and LEADER of the PTP. At their 'war drum' meeting in Korat last Sunday, where they also celebrated dead children and banged war drums.

Ther is also a dedicated story with pictures of these flag waving reds on their bikes at the welcoming of Yingluck to her NEW 'government capital'.

Yes, the rhetoric is ridiculous and extreme on both sides. Throw in the fact that it is translated and things become even less clear. Combing through these idiots speeches looking for "smoking guns" will reveal untold amounts of silliness from major players on both sides. Although even given that, that they were "celebrating dead children" is a daft suggestion.

The people of Chiang Mai showed their support for the prime minister and willingness to allow their town to be used as an administrative center for the government. An entirely different thing from your red-shirts "declaring a split in the nation" while waving "pro-separatist" flags.

It is probably true that the other things you are passing off as fact have featured in the "Thailand Live" thread. But as sensationalist reports of the nature of "So-and-so denies that ...", or "It was today rumored that...".

There are no recruitment offices and no "huge army being built up and armed". And there is no separatist movement in Chiang Mai. To pretend otherwise is just ridiculous. To make statements that simply do not correspond to reality.

Edited March 3, 2014 by cocopops

[pmugghc]

I would not worry too much about it, hasn't Suthep and Abhisit got arrest warrants out for them for a number of charges including murder and nothing has been done about that for months. I think if they arrested every one that has been charged and have warrants out for them they would have to build a few more prisons.

Can you please provide a link to when arrest warrants for murder were issued for Suthep and Abhisit?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Post 96 also acknowledges where both of them were to answer charges of murder.

I believe it was on the TVF a couple of months ago where they were both charged, I cant be bothered looking it up.

It may be of more interest to you.

Let's be clear: there are no ARREST WARRANTS for murder for them. Only INDICTMENTS.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Cnxforever]

it's almost funny - first they call them "red buffaloes" on stage daily - then when 1 "red buffalo" tells them to go and create their dictatorship in the South if they like it so much and welcome all democratic minded people to the North - they start to complain again!!

They are getting really excited now! Why I don't know - after all who needs the "red buffaloes" ??

Now the elitists are panicking!!

Isn't that terrible for the PDRC and their followers - who would do the dirty work for them? They would not even have an army - or at least no soldiers - only generals - after all it's mostly poor family's son's who are conscripted - because the Thai army is so through and through corrupt that if you have money you don't have to go and do army service! You just pay off the right people!!

The media response to this it simply amazing!

The PDRC claim this to be “treasonous,” is pure propaganda - ignoring their own “treason” of wanting to change the existing form of government by unconstitutional means against the will of the majority of Thais.

If people oppose them it's not acceptable - if you are with them you can break any law you like!

[Davidhere]

Looks like the PDRC and the Army are spouting off with no reason.

The Sor Por Por Lanna "group" denied denied allegations that it wants to split Thailand and form a people's democratic republic in the North at 10.30pm on Sunday on, where else, Facebook.

Apparently, Sor Por Por Lanna stands for Samatcha Pokpong Prachatipatai Lanna, or the Lanna Assembly for the Defence of Democracy. For those who can read thai the link is here http://prachatai.com/journal/2013/12/50754

thats b.s. they are cleaning up what they said. To stay away from trouble.

Even a dim bulb can light up if given time.

.

[laolover88]

Calls for secession are a bit daft. But of course there are some perfectly reasonable grounds for

suggesting/discussing some

form of regional self determination in Lanna as well as in Issan and the South. It is usually the obstinacy of

centralised governments that spur on regions to seek autonomy. Catalonia, Corsica, Scotland and

look at the consequences in Ireland and the ludicrous horror in the US when Absolut reminded people that

much of SW US was once Mexico! Now if Chiang Mai had access to the Andaman sea and all those speakers of Mon, Shan Lisu in Myanmar and Mae Hong Son..............ooh!

[LevelHead]

Is this the same PDRC who have violated the law and the constitution by obstructing voters from voting ?

They have already committed serious offences against the Thai people and the Thai constitution and yet the PDRC are allowed to carry on and the courts give them the thumbs up ?

Thailand and its juducial system is looking more and more ridiculous every day.

The military chief refuses to rule out a coup (and a coup is sedition and treason and breaks the constitution) and yet then he himself complains at others who discuss (and discuss only) another form of treason.

Treason is treason.

Military coup is treason - why does the same man not rule a coup ?

Blocking votes and elections is against the constitution - why are these PDRC people and leaders not already not in jail ?

All in my opinion of course.

[binjalin]

Calls for secession are a bit daft. But of course there are some perfectly reasonable grounds for

suggesting/discussing some

form of regional self determination in Lanna as well as in Issan and the South. It is usually the obstinacy of

centralised governments that spur on regions to seek autonomy. Catalonia, Corsica, Scotland and

look at the consequences in Ireland and the ludicrous horror in the US when Absolut reminded people that

much of SW US was once Mexico! Now if Chiang Mai had access to the Andaman sea and all those speakers of Mon, Shan Lisu in Myanmar and Mae Hong Son..............ooh!

of course it's daft and will never happen - just a few people getting frustrated but I don't believe it's treason it's more to be laughed at

the more we invoke words like "treason" the more entrenched people will be

as for Scotland people can express the wish to separate as much as they like and the word "treason" would be laughed at

a few red fanatics saying "separation" is as ludicrous as a few yellow fanatics saying "6m protesters"

[LevelHead]

The talk of secession is rather like the talk of a military coup.

The military can talk of a coup (an act of treason) as they have all the guns and can kill in order to carry it out. They only need to threated death and killing with their guns in order to claim power.

So here we have others talking of secession, in order to counter the military and their weapons and their talk of the high treason crime of a military coup.

Lets not forget, the only reason the military have any power is they have more guns than anyones and they throughout history have killed civilians to win power and stay in power.

The question is why are the PDRC not in jail already for their breaking of the law and the constitition in blocking voters and elections - which is an act of sedition in itself.

All in my opinion of course.

[whybother]

<snip>

99 murders? I asked someone else to explain how they came up with that number, but he doesn't seem to be able to. Maybe you can?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/708184-dsi-to-seek-arrest-warrant-for-suthep-on-99-counts-of-murder/

Yes, that's the thread where I asked. As I said, no one seems to be able to explain why it is suddenly 99 murders.

[whybother]

The talk of secession is rather like the talk of a military coup.

The military can talk of a coup (an act of treason) as they have all the guns and can kill in order to carry it out. They only need to threated death and killing with their guns in order to claim power.

So here we have others talking of secession, in order to counter the military and their weapons and their talk of the high treason crime of a military coup.

Lets not forget, the only reason the military have any power is they have more guns than anyones and they throughout history have killed civilians to win power and stay in power.

The question is why are the PDRC not in jail already for their breaking of the law and the constitition in blocking voters and elections - which is an act of sedition in itself.

All in my opinion of course.

The army doesn't talk of a coup. They answer journalists questions as to whether they're going to have a coup, particularly when Jatuporn claims they are about to have one.

... maybe Jatuporn should be charged for this act of treason?

[scorecard]

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it's almost funny - first they call them "red buffaloes" on stage daily - then when 1 "red buffalo" tells them to go and create their dictatorship in the South if they like it so much and welcome all democratic minded people to the North - they start to complain again!!

They are getting really excited now! Why I don't know - after all who needs the "red buffaloes" ??

Now the elitists are panicking!!

Isn't that terrible for the PDRC and their followers - who would do the dirty work for them? They would not even have an army - or at least no soldiers - only generals - after all it's mostly poor family's son's who are conscripted - because the Thai army is so through and through corrupt that if you have money you don't have to go and do army service! You just pay off the right people!!

The media response to this it simply amazing!

The PDRC claim this to be “treasonous,” is pure propaganda - ignoring their own “treason” of wanting to change the existing form of government by unconstitutional means against the will of the majority of Thais.

If people oppose them it's not acceptable - if you are with them you can break any law you like!

Nice attempt to twist the situation but your twist fails to tell / share the real story.

You say the PDRC are 'wanting to change the existing form of government by unconstitutional means against the will of the majority of Thais'.

Well you could write it like that but there's a lot more to the story and you know it.

'Against the will of the majority of Thais' That's your attempt at spin and nothing more. I strongly challenge you in regard to ',,, the majority of Thais....'

The PDRC are not wanting to totally / permanently change the form of government, they are trying to get strong & urgently reforms in place to stop corruption and to stop what is a growing dictatorship. I suggest to you that the majority of Thais agree.

If the only way to get these reforms in place is by strong and disruptive protest then so be it.

And you going to repeat the crap about elitists, it's been discussed ad nauseam that the PDRC is made up of every walk of life, rich poor, educated and uneducated, and from every corner of Thailand.

Back to democracy and especially the CM red 51 group - can you really honesty and sincerely say the current regime and the red shirts and the UDD represent a strong picture of democracy?

Also, can you honestly say the current regime is not raping the common wealth of all Thais?

Edited March 4, 2014 by scorecard

[Davidhere]

a few red fanatics saying "separation" is as ludicrous as a few yellow fanatics saying "6m protesters"

.

The glaring difference being that one is highly illegal while the other is not illegal whatsoever.

.

[Davidhere]

The question is why are the PDRC not in jail already for their breaking of the law and the constitition

.

Which begs the question of why the red shirt leaders are not in jail for their repeatedly breaking of the law since 2007.

.