Its my money - And I can do what I want with it...Nope not according to the Bank

[Suradit69]

when you receive from abroad,it's the thai bank that makes the exchange price (TT telex transfer on buying side of the bank exchange page)

That's if your bank abroad makes a transfer in foreign currency. If you ask them to transfer baht ... usually a mistake because rates and fees will work against you ... then your Thai bank will simply show a deposit in baht. It would not be coded as a foreign transfer of funds since they're receiving baht, not dollars or Euros or rubles.

[louse1953]

As with all things, the rules and implementation of them vary dramatically from branch to branch. In Sukhumvit area for that particular bank you need to use the foreign remit office above branch on 33 and I have found that their rules change very regularly indeed. Usually, you can win them over with pleas to familial concerns.

p.s. you can withdraw it all and fly it abroad yourself so in that sense, yes, it is your money and you can do what you want with it.

That's how i bought mine in and that's how it goes out.Banks are just a place to hold it for a while.Transfering with banks will cost you a motza.

[louse1953]

Simply taking Baht out and exchanging at the home country - There is a restriction in the amount of baht that can be take out the country A person traveling to other countries (other than Vietnam or China) is allowed up to THB 50,000. i.e £10K / $16.5K - Not likely to cover what is in the bank that is needing repatriation.

It's 50k baht out of Thailand but that is only one thousand pounds UK, you are allowed up to 10k euro cash going back into uk that's about 7.4k uk pounds. If you change it at superrich they have a limit of 150k baht change at one time, so you would have to go at least twice to change the maximum

Maybe if you go to small SR's,done a mill. a few times,then straight to Bangkok bank 40 metres away,then off for a beer.

[Beetlejuice]

Thanks to the OP for bringing this important issue to everyone's attention.

I've assisted retired people who have decided it's time to return to their home country and they need help in closing bank accounts, getting back deposits on their rental rooms, making airline reservations, packing, etc. In many cases, they've developed early stage dementia and other health problems and their handwriting (signature) has changed from when they've opened the account. I've seen this used as an excuse by the bank not to release funds. Also, if they've gotten a new passport (with a new new number) since opening the account -- another excuse to refuse to let the funds go. Another game is for the branch manager to claim to want to help, but her authority is limited by the home office, so daily withdrawal limit is something ridiculously low -- like 100,000 baht. One bank branch manager who doesn't play these games told me they're "graded" on the funds on deposit at their branch and if they lose a big deposit -- like an 800,000 baht retirement account -- then they're expected to go out a replace it pronto.

I've had exposure to several branch banks in Chiang Mai and have found the easiest to work with is Bangkok Bank's Kad Suan Kaew branch -- which does a large volume of business with expat retirees. But, it's also my personal branch, which may help to explain why I've had good experience in helping other expats to close out their accounts there.

Some advice -- never dispose of old bank passbooks or old passports. Always maintain a bank account in your home country -- in exactly the same name as your Thai bank account. For some reason, it's been easier to wire transfer funds out than to get a cashier's check (or cash) in closing an account. But, the managers have insisted that the receiving account has to have the same name as the sending account in Thailand.

Admittedly, all my experience has been with elderly foreigners, who were not "totally with-it" and perhaps the branch managers thought they were protecting them somehow. But in many cases, their adult children (who were named as heirs in their Will) were present while the bank branch manager was giving them the run-around. I think it simply is a matter of the branch managers not wanting to let the funds go.

The same branch manager who doesn't play the game told me that unclaimed 800,000 baht retirement visa account remain on the books of the branch bank for years-and-years, even when everyone knows the account owner is long gone. Hum.......

Never had a problem, because all my foreign accounts are in exactly the same names as my Thai bank accounts.

For those who regularly send money abroad from Thailand to their accounts in the home countries should always bank with the biggest banks in Thailand, i.e Bangkok Bank or SCB and keep all the accounts for International money transfers in the same names if possible. Also most of my bank accounts including those abroad are in joint names with my Thai wife. So if I do have any problems with the banks as a farang, then I have the option of doing international money transfers in my wife`s name.

As I once mentioned to you before NancyL, I find it rather concerning that people who are not registered with any charity or with an official care organisation are delving into the financial affairs of vulnerable ex-pats. With all the good intentions in the world that you may have, these people are still at risk of being scammed and exploited by others in whatever so-called organisation you claim to represent.

The simple facts are that anyone who places their financial affairs into the hands of strangers, especially if not in an official capacity, or seeks assistance in these matters from strangers is taking an enormous risk, no matter how genuine and kind these helpers appear to be on the surface.

This a something that should be brought to the attention of the families of elderly ex-pats living in Thailand, as this is only the business of the closest relatives and not the duties or responsibilities of complete strangers and self appointed do gooders.

Make no mistake, I am not trying to be malicious or deliberately rude or nasty, I am only stating what is common sense regarding the welfare of the elderly and the vulnerable.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Beetlejuice

[mrfaroukh]

wonderful information, I never transfer more than what I need in Thailand, so I safeguard myself. But if I buy a condo or something which I am very much oppose then I may get the problem, but with your information I will safeguard myself. Thanks a lot

[hawker9000]

I'm surprised that anyone is surprised by this given the number of in depth debates on the subject this forum has seen over the years. My surprise notwithstanding, the banks act as BOT's agent for the export of funds and as long as the customer receives an incoming remittance advice of some kind when the funds are transferred in, your ability to export the funds again is very easy.

But the above only refers to funds that are imported/exported by non-Thai's, the OP somewhat confuses matters by also setting out the circumstances under which Thai nationals may export funds, the two things should not be confused because non-Thai's are not allowed the same export criteria as nationals.

Finally, it's worth pointing out that anyone with a work permit is subject to different rules entirely hence the only ones affected by all of this are typically retirees on long stay visa's..

If you transferred the funds IN using wire transfer from your financial institution at home, which I imagine many do, what is your "incoming remittance advice". There's a record of the "deposit" (with I presume some 'code' that identifies it as a wire deposit) online, and in my passbook (once I take it to get updated - again with that code). Can the online item be printed out, or the page from the bankbook be photocopied, to provide this "incoming remittance advice". There's no other record that I know of...

'Doesn't really apply to me as the account is for spending money only, I currently don't keep a whole lot of money on deposit, and I make all my withdrawals via ATM. But if you're banking electronically (i.e., using wire transfers), what sort of advisory/paperwork is the bank looking for?

Edited March 5, 2014 by hawker9000

[stefb1964]

This information worth knowing by all of us. I guess very few have a clue what we can do with our money here.

Thank you very much.

[DrDave]

Does anyone have practical experience with cash exchange from Baht to other currencies within Thailand?...

A couple of years back, I wanted to convert about 600,000 THB to USD and carry back to the US.

After checking with a couple of K-bank exchange booths in BKK, my wife was told to contact the head office and place an order. I think the lead time was something like 2 days for 20K USD. We arrived at the head office at the specified day and time, and they had the money ready for us, in what appeared to be brand new, un-circulated $100 bills with K-bank wrappers.

Upon arriving in the US, I asked for and filled out a form at Customs to declare the 20K that we were carrying. (The officer seemed a bit surprised to see someone actually declaring cash, and acted like it wasn't a big deal anyway). Anyway - no issues at all in exchanging to USD and carrying into the US, just allow a little extra time if you need to convert a large amount.

[chiang mai]

I'm surprised that anyone is surprised by this given the number of in depth debates on the subject this forum has seen over the years. My surprise notwithstanding, the banks act as BOT's agent for the export of funds and as long as the customer receives an incoming remittance advice of some kind when the funds are transferred in, your ability to export the funds again is very easy.

But the above only refers to funds that are imported/exported by non-Thai's, the OP somewhat confuses matters by also setting out the circumstances under which Thai nationals may export funds, the two things should not be confused because non-Thai's are not allowed the same export criteria as nationals.

Finally, it's worth pointing out that anyone with a work permit is subject to different rules entirely hence the only ones affected by all of this are typically retirees on long stay visa's..

If you transferred the funds IN using wire transfer from your financial institution at home, which I imagine many do, what is your "incoming remittance advice". There's a record of the "deposit" (with I presume some 'code' that identifies it as a wire deposit) online, and in my passbook (once I take it to get updated - again with that code). Can the online item be printed out, or the page from the bankbook be photocopied, to provide this "incoming remittance advice". There's no other record that I know of...

'Doesn't really apply to me as the account is for spending money only, I currently don't keep a whole lot of money on deposit, and I make all my withdrawals via ATM. But if you're banking electronically (i.e., using wire transfers), what sort of advisory/paperwork is the bank looking for?

When you make a foreign exchange transaction, be it cash at a teller window or via an Electronic Funds Transfer (EFT) between two separate accounts at two different banks, the receiving bank issues a remittance advice, it's a slip of paper showing details of the transaction including date, amount and source currency. In the case of an EFT that remittance advice also includes the receiving banks Treasury Departments deal number, that's the deal where the bank made the foreign currency exchange transaction. If the bank doesn't give you the remittance advice you must ask for it, that is the document you need to assure you can transfer the funds out again.

If however you are withdrawing local currency from an overseas account, none of this applies to you because you're not actually bringing foreign currency into the country.

EDIT: I've read of cases where customers have not received the foreign exchange remittance advice but the transaction has been coded in their passbook and they have been able to go back long after the fact and ask for a copy of the advice, there is a however a charge for that service at some banks.

Edited March 6, 2014 by chiang mai

[spambot]

hawker9000

hawker9000 that is a good question!

Namely - Understanding the kind of paperwork the bank looking for on the inward remittance.

To answer this point let me explain what happened in my case when trying to identify if I could transfer funds back to my UK bank.

I was interested in understanding:

1). Did I need to prove that the funds in my account were actually sent from outside Thailand or is there an automatic record that these funds came in from overseas.

2). Do I need to prove that I was the actual sender of these funds (rather than someone else being the sender) if I make a request for them to be latter repatriation and sent back to UK

• Can I prove that these funds were from overseas? - Yes this is an automatic process

In fact just to emphasize this point - She showed me onscreen a list of all the overseas deposits and dates of these deposits filtered on my account as separate items distinct from all other deposits I had made - without any prompting by me. All inward foreign wired transfer into your account is only moved into your account after being held in a special overseas ledger in the bank for transfers from outside Thailand - Hence being able to prove this latter that these funds actually did come into Thailand from a non Thailand (i.e overseas) bank account this is automatically done in the banking system and this should not be a future problem.

• Do I need to identify that I was the sender of the funds (rather than some other entity)? - NO this is not necessary

in my case this was a little concerning (once I actually realized that there foreign currency restriction are used in Thailand). The funding transfer into my Thai bank account from my UK bank is not a direct transfer, but rather I it is via an an intermediary (FX broker). As a result there is no direct connection between my funding account in the UK and my Thai bank (Kasikorn). Hence the Kasikorn bank can not validate me as the sender. The records of the transaction for the funding show the brokers account details as the sender of the funds.

In fact to make it even more complicated it looked even worse when I saw the broker has used a bank in Australia for the delivery into my account and hence the funding into my account is shown as coming in from Australia and not the UK.

While I did not ask what I should have asked as the right question - Namely: "Does the transfer of funds out of Thailand need to go back into the same account bank / country or name as that used to send into my account?"

But I did ask: "From my account is there any problem sending funds back to the UK when considering the International deposits made so far?"

She made no stipulation that I was required to send back to the actual account that delivered the original funding. She did confirm (on several occasions) that if the transfer was payable to an account bearing my name as the receiving account for the transfer there would be no problem in sending the funds out from Thailand to the UK.

[Time Traveller]

This topic just seems like a complaint about nothing.

Thailand is extremely easy to transfer money out of the country. Just show the original inward transfer, or, the source of the funds from within Thailand. Of course, if you can't then of course banks will suspect the money is not yours or has come from illegal sources. It's not their fault you can't prove that the money is yours.

[chiang mai]

This topic just seems like a complaint about nothing.

Thailand is extremely easy to transfer money out of the country. Just show the original inward transfer, or, the source of the funds from within Thailand. Of course, if you can't then of course banks will suspect the money is not yours or has come from illegal sources. It's not their fault you can't prove that the money is yours.

Slightly unfair, people only know what they know and many are afraid to ask questions for fear of ridicule, especially on a forum such as this. Many people have lived their entire lives being insulated from or not having the need to ask detailed banking questions, it's only in later life when they make a move overseas that the extent of what they don't know becomes apparent.

[NancyL]

Thanks to the OP for bringing this important issue to everyone's attention.

I've assisted retired people who have decided it's time to return to their home country and they need help in closing bank accounts, getting back deposits on their rental rooms, making airline reservations, packing, etc. In many cases, they've developed early stage dementia and other health problems and their handwriting (signature) has changed from when they've opened the account. I've seen this used as an excuse by the bank not to release funds. Also, if they've gotten a new passport (with a new new number) since opening the account -- another excuse to refuse to let the funds go. Another game is for the branch manager to claim to want to help, but her authority is limited by the home office, so daily withdrawal limit is something ridiculously low -- like 100,000 baht. One bank branch manager who doesn't play these games told me they're "graded" on the funds on deposit at their branch and if they lose a big deposit -- like an 800,000 baht retirement account -- then they're expected to go out a replace it pronto.

I've had exposure to several branch banks in Chiang Mai and have found the easiest to work with is Bangkok Bank's Kad Suan Kaew branch -- which does a large volume of business with expat retirees. But, it's also my personal branch, which may help to explain why I've had good experience in helping other expats to close out their accounts there.

Some advice -- never dispose of old bank passbooks or old passports. Always maintain a bank account in your home country -- in exactly the same name as your Thai bank account. For some reason, it's been easier to wire transfer funds out than to get a cashier's check (or cash) in closing an account. But, the managers have insisted that the receiving account has to have the same name as the sending account in Thailand.

Admittedly, all my experience has been with elderly foreigners, who were not "totally with-it" and perhaps the branch managers thought they were protecting them somehow. But in many cases, their adult children (who were named as heirs in their Will) were present while the bank branch manager was giving them the run-around. I think it simply is a matter of the branch managers not wanting to let the funds go.

The same branch manager who doesn't play the game told me that unclaimed 800,000 baht retirement visa account remain on the books of the branch bank for years-and-years, even when everyone knows the account owner is long gone. Hum.......

Never had a problem, because all my foreign accounts are in exactly the same names as my Thai bank accounts.

For those who regularly send money abroad from Thailand to their accounts in the home countries should always bank with the biggest banks in Thailand, i.e Bangkok Bank or SCB and keep all the accounts for International money transfers in the same names if possible. Also most of my bank accounts including those abroad are in joint names with my Thai wife. So if I do have any problems with the banks as a farang, then I have the option of doing international money transfers in my wife`s name.

As I once mentioned to you before NancyL, I find it rather concerning that people who are not registered with any charity or with an official care organisation are delving into the financial affairs of vulnerable ex-pats. With all the good intentions in the world that you may have, these people are still at risk of being scammed and exploited by others in whatever so-called organisation you claim to represent.

The simple facts are that anyone who places their financial affairs into the hands of strangers, especially if not in an official capacity, or seeks assistance in these matters from strangers is taking an enormous risk, no matter how genuine and kind these helpers appear to be on the surface.

This a something that should be brought to the attention of the families of elderly ex-pats living in Thailand, as this is only the business of the closest relatives and not the duties or responsibilities of complete strangers and self appointed do gooders.

Make no mistake, I am not trying to be malicious or deliberately rude or nasty, I am only stating what is common sense regarding the welfare of the elderly and the vulnerable.

Beetlejuice,

I've taken the liberty of highlighting part of your post by using italics. Yes, indeed you have "mentioned" in previous posts your concerns about having strangers, people not related to the elderly expats they are assisting, delving into the financial affairs of vulnerable expats. It is a legitimate concern. Yet when I PM'd you, suggesting you might want to attend a steering team meeting of our organization, Lanna Care Net, you declined. Nor have you contacted the consular representatives on our steering team -- from the U.S. and U.K. consulates in Chiang Mai, to address your concerns with them privately. It seems you wish to hide behind the cloak of internet anonymity and simply throw stones and cast doubts when there is no cause to do so.

As I mentioned in my post on this thread, in many cases, I'm assisting not only the elderly expat who is winding down his time in Thailand to return to his home country, but also family members who have come from the home country to assist. Usually these are people who have never been to Thailand before and don't understand the Thai banking system.

Not every expat is as organized as you are, nor is every one blessed with a good wife who can be trusted to safeguard their financial interests when they become frail and in need of continuing care beyond what the wife is able to deliver. Our organization exists to help these people. We've been assisting people for over three years and, to date, no one had lodged a complaint with the consulates or other authorities that we've acted inappropriately.

So please, stop casting doubts on Lanna Care Net if you're unwilling to address them in person to our Steering Team.

Nancy Lindley

co-ordinator

Lanna Care Net.

www.LannaCareNet.org

[Cosmo88]

The case the OP discusses seems to be where the money was originally transferred from one's own bank account abroad to one's own bank account in Thailand, and paperwork still exists to support this fact. In that situation, it may be possible to transfer up to that amount back to one's own account abroad, whether all at once or in installments, as discussed.

However, for all other situations, I was under the impression that it is impossible to transfer any money abroad, whether to one's own account or not.

Am I wrong?

You are not wrong, unless you have a work permit or you are a Thai who is sending money overseas subject to the strict criteria already mentioned.

Thanks for the clarification about the work permit.

[Beetlejuice]

Thanks to the OP for bringing this important issue to everyone's attention.

I've assisted retired people who have decided it's time to return to their home country and they need help in closing bank accounts, getting back deposits on their rental rooms, making airline reservations, packing, etc. In many cases, they've developed early stage dementia and other health problems and their handwriting (signature) has changed from when they've opened the account. I've seen this used as an excuse by the bank not to release funds. Also, if they've gotten a new passport (with a new new number) since opening the account -- another excuse to refuse to let the funds go. Another game is for the branch manager to claim to want to help, but her authority is limited by the home office, so daily withdrawal limit is something ridiculously low -- like 100,000 baht. One bank branch manager who doesn't play these games told me they're "graded" on the funds on deposit at their branch and if they lose a big deposit -- like an 800,000 baht retirement account -- then they're expected to go out a replace it pronto.

I've had exposure to several branch banks in Chiang Mai and have found the easiest to work with is Bangkok Bank's Kad Suan Kaew branch -- which does a large volume of business with expat retirees. But, it's also my personal branch, which may help to explain why I've had good experience in helping other expats to close out their accounts there.

Some advice -- never dispose of old bank passbooks or old passports. Always maintain a bank account in your home country -- in exactly the same name as your Thai bank account. For some reason, it's been easier to wire transfer funds out than to get a cashier's check (or cash) in closing an account. But, the managers have insisted that the receiving account has to have the same name as the sending account in Thailand.

Admittedly, all my experience has been with elderly foreigners, who were not "totally with-it" and perhaps the branch managers thought they were protecting them somehow. But in many cases, their adult children (who were named as heirs in their Will) were present while the bank branch manager was giving them the run-around. I think it simply is a matter of the branch managers not wanting to let the funds go.

The same branch manager who doesn't play the game told me that unclaimed 800,000 baht retirement visa account remain on the books of the branch bank for years-and-years, even when everyone knows the account owner is long gone. Hum.......

Never had a problem, because all my foreign accounts are in exactly the same names as my Thai bank accounts.

For those who regularly send money abroad from Thailand to their accounts in the home countries should always bank with the biggest banks in Thailand, i.e Bangkok Bank or SCB and keep all the accounts for International money transfers in the same names if possible. Also most of my bank accounts including those abroad are in joint names with my Thai wife. So if I do have any problems with the banks as a farang, then I have the option of doing international money transfers in my wife`s name.

As I once mentioned to you before NancyL, I find it rather concerning that people who are not registered with any charity or with an official care organisation are delving into the financial affairs of vulnerable ex-pats. With all the good intentions in the world that you may have, these people are still at risk of being scammed and exploited by others in whatever so-called organisation you claim to represent.

The simple facts are that anyone who places their financial affairs into the hands of strangers, especially if not in an official capacity, or seeks assistance in these matters from strangers is taking an enormous risk, no matter how genuine and kind these helpers appear to be on the surface.

This a something that should be brought to the attention of the families of elderly ex-pats living in Thailand, as this is only the business of the closest relatives and not the duties or responsibilities of complete strangers and self appointed do gooders.

Make no mistake, I am not trying to be malicious or deliberately rude or nasty, I am only stating what is common sense regarding the welfare of the elderly and the vulnerable.

Beetlejuice,

I've taken the liberty of highlighting part of your post by using italics. Yes, indeed you have "mentioned" in previous posts your concerns about having strangers, people not related to the elderly expats they are assisting, delving into the financial affairs of vulnerable expats. It is a legitimate concern. Yet when I PM'd you, suggesting you might want to attend a steering team meeting of our organization, Lanna Care Net, you declined. Nor have you contacted the consular representatives on our steering team -- from the U.S. and U.K. consulates in Chiang Mai, to address your concerns with them privately. It seems you wish to hide behind the cloak of internet anonymity and simply throw stones and cast doubts when there is no cause to do so.

As I mentioned in my post on this thread, in many cases, I'm assisting not only the elderly expat who is winding down his time in Thailand to return to his home country, but also family members who have come from the home country to assist. Usually these are people who have never been to Thailand before and don't understand the Thai banking system.

Not every expat is as organized as you are, nor is every one blessed with a good wife who can be trusted to safeguard their financial interests when they become frail and in need of continuing care beyond what the wife is able to deliver. Our organization exists to help these people. We've been assisting people for over three years and, to date, no one had lodged a complaint with the consulates or other authorities that we've acted inappropriately.

So please, stop casting doubts on Lanna Care Net if you're unwilling to address them in person to our Steering Team.

Nancy Lindley

co-ordinator

Lanna Care Net.

www.LannaCareNet.org

You have never PM'd me because I have always had my pm disabled from inception of when I first joined Thai visa several years ago and I have never been invited to attend a meeting of your so-called organisation by pm, nor have I declined, this is misinformation, although I have no interest in attending or becoming involved or wanting to be associated with a non registered help group because it is evident on how this is run already.

Glad you agree that it is a legitimate concern and so it should be. I am not deliberately casting doubts on the so-called Lanna Care Net, I am only questioning the way you people operate and wondering why you and others are (stated by your own admission) becoming involved with assisting vulnerable ex-pats with their financial affairs? The worrying part is, that if your group can set up an unregulated outfit like this, than so can anyone else, including the unscrupulous and those with bad intentions, there could be victims out there waiting to happen.

I now say this without prejudice; any self appointed help or care group that is not registered or regulated by an official body has no credibility with me and again I would suggest that the relatives keep close tabs and monitor the activities of their elderly and vulnerable ex-pat family members living in Thailand, or if some of you are elderly then make all your financial arrangements with your close relatives, trusted friends or even your lawyers, accountants or banks, in preparation just in case of any serious health issues and vulnerabilities.

This is not about casting doubts on any groups, but rather anyone who chooses to ask assistance from these groups, do so at their own risk and discretion, and these are the plain facts.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Beetlejuice

[chiang mai]

Leave it off BJ, can you not try just a little bit to be supportive of what is clearly an outstanding effort rather than casting doubt, is it that difficult for you!

[Beetlejuice]

Leave it off BJ, can you not try just a little bit to be supportive of what is clearly an outstanding effort rather than casting doubt, is it that difficult for you!

I have made members aware of the situation and if an organisation is credible then it would be extremely difficult to cast doubts just by questioning how it operates, if such groups can prove their credibility with assurances, without a reasonable doubt, not just on face value and without the need for questions being asked. I will not say another word regarding the subject. As I said it`s up to everyone to form their own opinions and use their own discretion, as it`s not my assets or money involved here, nor would it ever be.

Going back to the original subject, it is possible to open foreign currency accounts with the Bangkok Bank and transferring money to bank accounts abroad online. Make inquiries as there are ways of means without too much hassle.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Beetlejuice

[Konini]

when you receive from abroad,it's the thai bank that makes the exchange price (TT telex transfer on buying side of the bank exchange page)

Commonwealth Bank of Australia are very, very sneak - you have to remember to uncheck the box twice or it will do the currency exchange there and send Thai baht. I can't remember the numbers, but I worked it out once on a $5,000 transfer and was shocked at how much we would have lost in the transaction as opposed to transferring Aus dollars and Kasikorn doing the exchange.

[NancyL]

Ah, Beetlejuice, I had forgotten that you have disabled your PM function. That makes it very easy for you to cast stones behind the veil of anonymity, doesn't it? You and a couple other Thai Visa regulars have been critical of Lanna Care Net, yet you cannot point to any specific cases of wrong-doing. I've PM'd the others, inviting them to come to our public meetings so our steering team can explain the decisions behind how we're organized and the checks and balances in place within the organization. At least the other TV critics had working PM functions, but they, too, refused to come to a meeting, identify themselves and voice their concerns in person.

Can you offer another alternative service for elderly expats who need assistance in sorting their affairs when they have health issues in Chiang Mai? Especially when they don't have the active support or involvement of family in a home country?

[Beetlejuice]

Ah, Beetlejuice, I had forgotten that you have disabled your PM function. That makes it very easy for you to cast stones behind the veil of anonymity, doesn't it? You and a couple other Thai Visa regulars have been critical of Lanna Care Net, yet you cannot point to any specific cases of wrong-doing. I've PM'd the others, inviting them to come to our public meetings so our steering team can explain the decisions behind how we're organized and the checks and balances in place within the organization. At least the other TV critics had working PM functions, but they, too, refused to come to a meeting, identify themselves and voice their concerns in person.

Can you offer another alternative service for elderly expats who need assistance in sorting their affairs when they have health issues in Chiang Mai? Especially when they don't have the active support or involvement of family in a home country?

I have not cast stones, only asking reasonable questions, and according to you it appears others are having concerns also.

Why do you have to pm people to explain things rather than be open about it on the forum and let everyone form their own opinions?

I have already answered your questions in my previous posts and as I said; these are my final words on the subject. Criticising me or accusing me of being the bad guy will not change how the situation stands at the moment.

[chiang mai]

You’re a disgrace BJ, you take it upon yourself to become the TV consumer advocate for the Chiang Mai forum, someone who is critical of only one farang led organisation in all of Chiang Mai and that one being a support group for sick and aged foreigners. And without any basis in fact, other than you suspect something could potentially be amiss, you broadcast publically your concerns, thereby planting seeds of doubt into many minds and thereby denigrating a service that is trying to be helpful and constructive!

If you genuinely had concerns about Lanna Care, surely you would have asked questions of the embassies or at a minimum, opened a thread on TV asking, “shouldn’t we be concerned about this”. Perhaps at a minimum you might have asked questions at the hospitals to see what they thought – I’ve done those things and I can assure you that staff and doctors at the two hospitals I discussed this subject with were most complementary and supportive.

So whatever your problem is BJ, be it simply a desire to be destructive towards fellow expatriates or something more sinister, please do us all a favour and take your self appointed consumer advocate activities elsewhere, it's not helpful nor constructive but it is potentially very damaging.

[wym]

You have never PM'd me because I have always had my pm disabled from inception of when I first joined Thai visa several years ago and I have never been invited to attend a meeting of your so-called organisation by pm, nor have I declined, this is misinformation, although I have no interest in attending or becoming involved or wanting to be associated with a non registered help group because it is evident on how this is run already.

Glad you agree that it is a legitimate concern and so it should be. I am not deliberately casting doubts on the so-called Lanna Care Net, I am only questioning the way you people operate and wondering why you and others are (stated by your own admission) becoming involved with assisting vulnerable ex-pats with their financial affairs? The worrying part is, that if your group can set up an unregulated outfit like this, than so can anyone else, including the unscrupulous and those with bad intentions, there could be victims out there waiting to happen.

I now say this without prejudice; any self appointed help or care group that is not registered or regulated by an official body has no credibility with me and again I would suggest that the relatives keep close tabs and monitor the activities of their elderly and vulnerable ex-pat family members living in Thailand, or if some of you are elderly then make all your financial arrangements with your close relatives, trusted friends or even your lawyers, accountants or banks, in preparation just in case of any serious health issues and vulnerabilities.

This is not about casting doubts on any groups, but rather anyone who chooses to ask assistance from these groups, do so at their own risk and discretion, and these are the plain facts.

BJ, I'm sure your intentions are good, but I don't think you're being realistic.

I'm sure you're aware that officialdom here is the fox put in charge of the chickens, as soon as an organization were at the mercy of Thai authorities personally that would be a NEGATIVE in their credibility as far as I'm concerned.

And sad to say many people here have cut ties with their friends and family, and can't trust anyone in their personal life.

And of course most retirees here don't have resources to engage professionals, especially from back home, and as we know most of those here, farang or Thai are indeed very suspecxt.

So in this case, if two embassies and those they work with in the medical community here vouch for them that would be good enough for me.

Of course each person needs to do their due diligence to the extent they're able to, it's certainly true that that population is very vulnerable here. But if Nancy's outfit is indeed as sincere and bona fides as things sound then they're only to be applauded.

But you too are to be commended for raising the issue, and perhaps Nancy could explore being "certified" by an international organization of some sort, or otherwise work on reinforcing her org's credibility in other ways without impairing their effectiveness.

[Beetlejuice]

You have never PM'd me because I have always had my pm disabled from inception of when I first joined Thai visa several years ago and I have never been invited to attend a meeting of your so-called organisation by pm, nor have I declined, this is misinformation, although I have no interest in attending or becoming involved or wanting to be associated with a non registered help group because it is evident on how this is run already.

Glad you agree that it is a legitimate concern and so it should be. I am not deliberately casting doubts on the so-called Lanna Care Net, I am only questioning the way you people operate and wondering why you and others are (stated by your own admission) becoming involved with assisting vulnerable ex-pats with their financial affairs? The worrying part is, that if your group can set up an unregulated outfit like this, than so can anyone else, including the unscrupulous and those with bad intentions, there could be victims out there waiting to happen.

I now say this without prejudice; any self appointed help or care group that is not registered or regulated by an official body has no credibility with me and again I would suggest that the relatives keep close tabs and monitor the activities of their elderly and vulnerable ex-pat family members living in Thailand, or if some of you are elderly then make all your financial arrangements with your close relatives, trusted friends or even your lawyers, accountants or banks, in preparation just in case of any serious health issues and vulnerabilities.

This is not about casting doubts on any groups, but rather anyone who chooses to ask assistance from these groups, do so at their own risk and discretion, and these are the plain facts.

BJ, I'm sure your intentions are good, but I don't think you're being realistic.

I'm sure you're aware that officialdom here is the fox put in charge of the chickens, as soon as an organization were at the mercy of Thai authorities personally that would be a NEGATIVE in their credibility as far as I'm concerned.

And sad to say many people here have cut ties with their friends and family, and can't trust anyone in their personal life.

And of course most retirees here don't have resources to engage professionals, especially from back home, and as we know most of those here, farang or Thai are indeed very suspecxt.

So in this case, if two embassies and those they work with in the medical community here vouch for them that would be good enough for me.

Of course each person needs to do their due diligence to the extent they're able to, it's certainly true that that population is very vulnerable here. But if Nancy's outfit is indeed as sincere and bona fides as things sound then they're only to be applauded.

But you too are to be commended for raising the issue, and perhaps Nancy could explore being "certified" by an international organization of some sort, or otherwise work on reinforcing her org's credibility in other ways without impairing their effectiveness.

Although I keep saying these are my last words on the subject, I will try one more time to make people understand.

I have nothing personal against NancyL and her outfit. Anyone or group that volunteers to help and assist the aged out of kindness and from the goodness of their hearts is alright in my book, and lets face it, there has always been and still is a desperate need for ex-pat support groups in Chiang Mai.

Here is the part that concerns me: back in the UK and the States there are social services departments and registered charity groups that are there to help the vulnerable, the aged and others that require assistance. But each case these services deal with are conducted under strict guidelines and rules including never becoming involved with the financial affairs of the people they are helping. In the event of someone having difficulties managing their finances or of a deceased person, than this is a matter for the closet relatives and/or their banks or the authorities to deal with, not the carers, even if the person requiring assistance requests it as these people may not be totally compos mentis and confused making them easy targets for the con merchants. Even NancyL has mentioned that some of these people are suffering from the early stages of dementia. It is the duty of the carers to inform the relatives or the banks or the authorities in these circumstances and not take it upon themselves to do the financial deeds for them, even with having good intentions, otherwise they are asking for trouble, especially if in the event there are funds that cannot be accounted for and someone complains, which if that happens these groups could also find themselves in the deep do dars with the authorities.

The point I am stressing to get across, that there are high risks involved to the aged ex-pats who are literally letting strangers have access to their finances on face value and this leaves them vulnerable and in danger of being scammed, robbed or exploited by the unscrupulous, the deceitful, con men and women and evil people that are out there who could infiltrate these groups posing as genuine carers with good intentions or even whole groups of con people could go into operation in the guises of volunteer care organisations, and this is why I strongly believe that all such groups or organisations as these must be registered and officially recognised as bona fide outfits.

This system of volunteer carers that our NancyL and her associates are running is flawed for reasons I have mentioned above, although I have no doubts that our NancyL is genuine and means well regarding her efforts, this I am not questioning.

I really have no other ways I can explain this and do hope that our NancyL and her associates will take on board what I have mentioned here for the good and safety of all concerned working with these groups and the people they assist.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Beetlejuice

[JLCrab]

On the Lannacarenet.org website in the Lanna Care Net Visitors Guide PDF it states:

Potential Legal Issues

Be aware of the fact that we are living in Thailand, with the responsibility of following all Thai

laws.

If you are living here on a “Retirement Visa”, you are prohibited from volunteering without a

work permit. We are LCN Visitors, not LCN volunteers.

From the website of "Friends of the Elderly" in UK founded in 1905 it supplies the description of its Volunteer activities at http://www.fote.org.uk/work-for-us/volunteer-with-us/

[chiang mai]

You're way off base again BJ, you describe the environments in the UK and and US where the care systems are near perfect yet here there is nothing and legally we are not allowed to create something because it would be "work". Yet despite that, some people have created something, a something that works and you complain it's not as near perfect.as back home! I believe some perspective is called for!

[NancyL]

Yes, BJ, we'd love for you to come to Steering Team meetings to help us brainstorm ideas as to how we could better address the concerns you raise. Currently we do screen members, require two half-day training sessions before anyone is in a position to assist an elderly person with shopping or other errands and frankly, the number of people in our organization who do tasks where they ask our clients for reimbursement of expenses (like running errands) is fairly small and all those people are very well established in the expat community.

They're simply not the sort of people who are going to run off and fail to pay some elderly person's electric bill and pocket the funds for themselves (for example).

Also, if you're aware of any mechanism by which a foreigner can be declared incompetent and incapable of handling his affairs and having a guardian (preferably another foreigner) appointed by a Thai court to handle that foreigner's affairs -- we'd love to learn about that mechanism. We're aware of several elderly expats in Chiang Mai who don't seem to have any family in their home countries and are living in situations very dangerous to themselves (and they appear to be incapable of making informed decisions about their welfare). Were they in their home countries, the local authorities could be involved and ultimately a court-appointed guardian would be named, but that's the the case in Thailand.

So, BJ, an internet forum is a poor place to air your concerns. Yes, the concerns you have are valid and we've explored them within our Steering Team. But we'd welcome a fresh perspective -- from a skeptic. Perhaps it's time to make a contribution beyond throwing a few stones on an anonymous forum.

[iancnx]

Yes, BJ, we'd love for you to come to Steering Team meetings to help us brainstorm ideas as to how we could better address the concerns you raise. Currently we do screen members, require two half-day training sessions before anyone is in a position to assist an elderly person with shopping or other errands and frankly, the number of people in our organization who do tasks where they ask our clients for reimbursement of expenses (like running errands) is fairly small and all those people are very well established in the expat community.

They're simply not the sort of people who are going to run off and fail to pay some elderly person's electric bill and pocket the funds for themselves (for example).

Also, if you're aware of any mechanism by which a foreigner can be declared incompetent and incapable of handling his affairs and having a guardian (preferably another foreigner) appointed by a Thai court to handle that foreigner's affairs -- we'd love to learn about that mechanism. We're aware of several elderly expats in Chiang Mai who don't seem to have any family in their home countries and are living in situations very dangerous to themselves (and they appear to be incapable of making informed decisions about their welfare). Were they in their home countries, the local authorities could be involved and ultimately a court-appointed guardian would be named, but that's the the case in Thailand.

So, BJ, an internet forum is a poor place to air your concerns. Yes, the concerns you have are valid and we've explored them within our Steering Team. But we'd welcome a fresh perspective -- from a skeptic. Perhaps it's time to make a contribution beyond throwing a few stones on an anonymous forum.

Been waiting for this. Very well said Nancy, I know little about your visitors group, but I have no doubt your activities are of enormous benefit to your elderly friends. BJ your post was designed to do nothing more than to aggravate in my view. Excellent that you did not succeed. Are you a retiree I wonder?

[wprime]

Like most banks, the sooner you distance yourself from the idea that it's "your money" the sooner your relationship with your bank will improve.

[watcharacters]

Well, after stupidly investing my entire 401k (USA) into tech stocks in 2000 and lost it all, Kasikorn has no funds to withold. Thank god!

Now back to eating a ripe yellow mango.

.

I'm happy for you that you're only joking

[4evermaat]

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Does anyone have practical experience with cash exchange from Baht to other currencies within Thailand?

Remembe some remarks that even this might be problematic for foreigners,

(I assume this "give it to a Thai friend" goes into this direction?)

Take your cash and passport to the Super Rich in BKK and change it to whatever currency. The best rates, no need to order and normally speedy service.

Can you advise where this Super Rich is?

Are there other places similar where these exchanges can be done? How much lead time is needed?