Its my money - And I can do what I want with it...Nope not according to the Bank

[spambot]

Getting your money out of your Thailand bank and into your home / foreign bank is not an instant right - Even though you might think it should be

Thailand has capital controls on foreign currency – Meaning that you can transfer as a much Thai Baht as you might wish into the country, but if you want to transfer it back it is not as straight forward to do so.

I went into my Kasikorn bank yesterday and had a 45 minute conversation with the banking division – girl could speak almost perfect English and so I took advantage of the opportunity to get as much detail as I could.

Summary:

If you are retired and not earning in Thailand you must tie all of your credit advice statements for the funds that you have received into your Thai bank account to your overseas payment originally made to you – You need to prove that the funds came into the country from abroad.

Worthwhile noting (at least at Kasikorn) I was able to get a “Credit Advice Receipt” for funds I transferred in from overseas for 2014, but not for funds transferred in 2013 – They could not give me the “Credit Advice Receipt” for two other transfers. However she could show me that these had occurred onscreen with the amount and the date when these arrived into my account and overseas transfers. And I am assuming that they would use this record (rather than my “Credit Advice Receipt” printout).

There are three types of PURPOSE - in order to transfers (out) to foreign banks and they need different supporting paperwork. But on all occasion a ‘Global onward application’ Form will need to be completed. The key on this form is the section that asks the PURPOSE - And this is where the supporting different paperwork is needed – As following:

1. Person to person loan / payback of funds to a person (not an organisation) – Copy of the persons passport.

2. Item purchased abroad requiring payment – Copy of receipt for the item.

3. Payment to yourself – Just details of your account in foreign country and no paperwork needs to be attached to the Form – This account abroad must be in your name.

The daily limit (at least at the Kasikorn branch I use) is one ‘Global onward application’ Form per day and can be for a maximum amount of 700,000 Baht.

What I did not ask and I may go back to check this – Was if funds were not transferred originally directly into my account in Thailand from my UK account (since I use a currency broker to get better rates than my UK bank will do the conversion at) – would this be a problem in that I would need to show that the incoming funds actually came from me (my account) originally, but I guess this could be proved via other means with the currency broker.

And finally on a related, but side issue I learned later the same day that not all banks can provide international transfer of funds out. I have opened a Tisco account to take advantage of their current 2.75% on 3 months for time deposit and I was told that they do not transfer funds overseas.

I have posted this to help others because it actually came as a bit of a surprise to me that I do need to prove that I do have a valid reason for transferring my own funds. And my funds are not available to do as I wished with once they arrive in Thailand.

[Jingthing]

Thanks for that very informative post. Full marks!

[infinity11]

Could you also pull your money out and put it in another more farang friendly bank or am i dreaming now?

Or pull the cash out and wire it? Western Union?

There MUST be ways around it but yes i imagine NOT easy.

[OxfordWill]

As with all things, the rules and implementation of them vary dramatically from branch to branch. In Sukhumvit area for that particular bank you need to use the foreign remit office above branch on 33 and I have found that their rules change very regularly indeed. Usually, you can win them over with pleas to familial concerns.

p.s. you can withdraw it all and fly it abroad yourself so in that sense, yes, it is your money and you can do what you want with it.

Edited March 4, 2014 by OxfordWill

[NancyL]

Thanks to the OP for bringing this important issue to everyone's attention.

I've assisted retired people who have decided it's time to return to their home country and they need help in closing bank accounts, getting back deposits on their rental rooms, making airline reservations, packing, etc. In many cases, they've developed early stage dementia and other health problems and their handwriting (signature) has changed from when they've opened the account. I've seen this used as an excuse by the bank not to release funds. Also, if they've gotten a new passport (with a new new number) since opening the account -- another excuse to refuse to let the funds go. Another game is for the branch manager to claim to want to help, but her authority is limited by the home office, so daily withdrawal limit is something ridiculously low -- like 100,000 baht. One bank branch manager who doesn't play these games told me they're "graded" on the funds on deposit at their branch and if they lose a big deposit -- like an 800,000 baht retirement account -- then they're expected to go out a replace it pronto.

I've had exposure to several branch banks in Chiang Mai and have found the easiest to work with is Bangkok Bank's Kad Suan Kaew branch -- which does a large volume of business with expat retirees. But, it's also my personal branch, which may help to explain why I've had good experience in helping other expats to close out their accounts there.

Some advice -- never dispose of old bank passbooks or old passports. Always maintain a bank account in your home country -- in exactly the same name as your Thai bank account. For some reason, it's been easier to wire transfer funds out than to get a cashier's check (or cash) in closing an account. But, the managers have insisted that the receiving account has to have the same name as the sending account in Thailand.

Admittedly, all my experience has been with elderly foreigners, who were not "totally with-it" and perhaps the branch managers thought they were protecting them somehow. But in many cases, their adult children (who were named as heirs in their Will) were present while the bank branch manager was giving them the run-around. I think it simply is a matter of the branch managers not wanting to let the funds go.

The same branch manager who doesn't play the game told me that unclaimed 800,000 baht retirement visa account remain on the books of the branch bank for years-and-years, even when everyone knows the account owner is long gone. Hum.......

[negreanu]

Citibank Global transfer. Not an issue.

[zeichen]

You could also just withdraw all the money as Thai Baht or cancel your account, give the Thai Baht to a Thai friend and have them exchange it to Dollar/Pound Etc.

[chiang mai]

I'm surprised that anyone is surprised by this given the number of in depth debates on the subject this forum has seen over the years. My surprise notwithstanding, the banks act as BOT's agent for the export of funds and as long as the customer receives an incoming remittance advice of some kind when the funds are transferred in, your ability to export the funds again is very easy.

But the above only refers to funds that are imported/exported by non-Thai's, the OP somewhat confuses matters by also setting out the circumstances under which Thai nationals may export funds, the two things should not be confused because non-Thai's are not allowed the same export criteria as nationals.

Finally, it's worth pointing out that anyone with a work permit is subject to different rules entirely hence the only ones affected by all of this are typically retirees on long stay visa's..

[speedtripler]

transfer the lot to into 200 / 500 euro notes or 1000 swiss franc notes

these are very easy to fly with and they add up to a lot of baht in a small amount of paper

[KhunBENQ]

Does anyone have practical experience with cash exchange from Baht to other currencies within Thailand?

Remembe some remarks that even this might be problematic for foreigners,

(I assume this "give it to a Thai friend" goes into this direction?)

[chiang mai]

You can buy most currencies at major banks although many will be special orders that take time for the bank to accumulate, USD, YEN, EURO and GBP are easily obtainable however as are regional currencies. Did you have a specific currency in mind?

Edited March 4, 2014 by chiang mai

[spambot]

Does anyone have practical experience with cash exchange from Baht to other currencies within Thailand?

Remembe some remarks that even this might be problematic for foreigners,

(I assume this "give it to a Thai friend" goes into this direction?)

This question is a good check - Since the first thing that you think is to change to another currency before you leave, but I do believe while you can change to other currencies there is a restriction on this amount - I remember when getting USD for trip to Cambodia the Bangkok bank when buying USD said I could not buy above a certain amount, but didn't clarify if this was lack of USD in stock or Gov restriction ....Anyone know this?....And I second KhunBENQ....Does anyone have actual experience of exchanging cash Baht to another currency (of sizable amounts) - they can share their experience / knowledge.

Simply taking Baht out and exchanging at the home country - There is a restriction in the amount of baht that can be take out the country A person traveling to other countries (other than Vietnam or China) is allowed up to THB 50,000. i.e £10K / $16.5K - Not likely to cover what is in the bank that is needing repatriation.

Edited March 4, 2014 by spambot

[chiang mai]

Banks in Thailand accumulate foreign currency as and when it is brought into the country by travelers who want to exchange it for THB, that's typically the only way it arrives here. It therefore follows that the rate of accumulation is very uneven across banks and branches within a bank. Typically, if someone wanted small amounts they would trawl several banks until they found what they wanted, for larger amounts a n order needs to be placed and head office will do the trawling.

I purchased GBP 5k from HSBC Bangkok a few years ago and it took them ten days to fill the order. A similar purchase of USD from UOB last year took even longer.

I am not aware of any restrictions that exist governing the exchange of THB into any other currency in Thailand, the restriction in itself is the availability of the foreign currency - restrictions do exist to govern the electronic transfer of currency out of Thailand, as others have already noted..

[spambot]

chiang mai

Good Clarification - Chaing Mai - That is worth knowing!

[David48]

Thanks to the OP for bringing this important issue to everyone's attention.

I've assisted retired people who have decided it's time to return to their home country ......

NancyL ... one of the unsung heros of this place.

Go girl ...

[mania]

I am not 100% sure but believe the reasons for tighter

currency export has its root in the 97-98 crash of Thailand.

In any case it is somewhat understandable that a country as small as this

keeps an eye on such things since it is probably not to hard to topple into

another economic crash.

Here is an older report written by a Thai

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/thai/html/financial97_98.html

That aside when ever I have wired in money I ask for a copy of the report.

Bangkok Bank is very familiar with this & provides it one day after wire is completed

( here in CM )because it comes from Bangkok

It is not hard of course after a few years to have much more in reports than savings if

your using it to live also. So if ever leaving & wanting to wire out the balance should not be a problem

Of course I keep my bank books etc. But the report is very detailed showing originating bank

thru any intermediaries such as BKB NY etc. Also times, amount etc. Basically a map of

start to finish of the transfer

Edited March 4, 2014 by mania

[Somtamnication]

Well, after stupidly investing my entire 401k (USA) into tech stocks in 2000 and lost it all, Kasikorn has no funds to withold. Thank god!

Now back to eating a ripe yellow mango.

[leosuntime]

I havent read all of this thread yet, im just commenting because I wanna follow this and re-read it later

there is something really rotten with the banks all over the planet, I had similar experiences in Australia

the banks r seriously making it obvious that they dont have our money, its already disappeared into some sovereign bond in a debt riddled country most likely

[wym]

Beside the desire to maintain currency controls, the I think more relevant concern is money laundering.

Basically if you've earned the money illegally, even if just earning wages without a work permit, it is subject to confiscation.

This is increasingly true all over the world, for any decent amount of money, you need to document the source of funds and demonstrate that it was earned legally and all taxes paid.

Especially true for Americans, which is why so many international banks won't deal with us anymore.

[chiang mai]

Not really, the currency controls were put in place by BOT to protect the Baht, that's why we had the differing onshore and offshore rates for quite some time.

[wym]

I meant relevant to the issue under discussion, where an ordinary expat moving out of the country may find it difficult to take their (relatively small amount of) money with them.

Nothing that would make any difference to exchange flows.

Why else demand you show sources? Or limit your outflows to a reasonable percentage of you legally earned income?

Thailand started complying with US (via FATF) pressures on these issues long ago and following the "guidelines" more diligently has now earned its removal from the international banking blacklist.

It's not exactly voluntary is it. . .

[nickmanchester2]

the limit on my Royal Bank of Scotland account even just to another UK bank was £10,000 a day so 700,000 Baht is much more than RBS.

[Cosmo88]

The case the OP discusses seems to be where the money was originally transferred from one's own bank account abroad to one's own bank account in Thailand, and paperwork still exists to support this fact. In that situation, it may be possible to transfer up to that amount back to one's own account abroad, whether all at once or in installments, as discussed.

However, for all other situations, I was under the impression that it is impossible to transfer any money abroad, whether to one's own account or not.

Am I wrong?

[whoisyourdaddy]

Not sure if my post would be relevant but i have opened foreign banks transfer(sorry do not recall the proper name used)

Basically i had to provide a few of documents to have this service approved.

WP, Passport and a form.

Once it was approved, i am able to do internet transfer from Thai Bank to overseas and vice versa.

From Thai Bank to overseas 1 000 000 baht daily limit

In both cases money arrives at its destination within 24 hours.

[wym]

The case the OP discusses seems to be where the money was originally transferred from one's own bank account abroad to one's own bank account in Thailand, and paperwork still exists to support this fact. In that situation, it may be possible to transfer up to that amount back to one's own account abroad, whether all at once or in installments, as discussed.

However, for all other situations, I was under the impression that it is impossible to transfer any money abroad, whether to one's own account or not.

Am I wrong?

Yes, if I understand your post that would be completely nuts.

Many expats earning good salaries working legally here need to send a significant portion of their income back home to cover expenses like mortgage payments and maintenance on property, supporting their parents, repayment of loans, savings plans, tuition etc.

There is no problem with this as long as the numbers make sense, but you do need to ask permission and provide documentation as requested to back up your explanation.

As well of course as being able to repatriate any funds that were previously brought in from outside the country, as long as you kept the paperwork.

It only those sending large sums out that don't have a reasonable explanation as to where they came from that would have a problem.

[chiang mai]

Not sure if my post would be relevant but i have opened foreign banks transfer(sorry do not recall the proper name used)

Basically i had to provide a few of documents to have this service approved.

WP, Passport and a form.

Once it was approved, i am able to do internet transfer from Thai Bank to overseas and vice versa.

From Thai Bank to overseas 1 000 000 baht daily limit

In both cases money arrives at its destination within 24 hours.

As stated earlier, the case of work permit holders is different from holders of retirement visa's.

[sms747]

Simply taking Baht out and exchanging at the home country - There is a restriction in the amount of baht that can be take out the country A person traveling to other countries (other than Vietnam or China) is allowed up to THB 50,000. i.e £10K / $16.5K - Not likely to cover what is in the bank that is needing repatriation.

It's 50k baht out of Thailand but that is only one thousand pounds UK, you are allowed up to 10k euro cash going back into uk that's about 7.4k uk pounds. If you change it at superrich they have a limit of 150k baht change at one time, so you would have to go at least twice to change the maximum

Edited March 5, 2014 by sms747

[spambot]

sms747

Thanks sms747 - Yes you are right what a howler I made - I absolute can not do the maths - And you are absolutely right it is £1k / $1.6k (US)...So the limit is even worse than I calculated and as you rightly pointed out if you can get the conversion from Baht you get a better limit of 10K Euros https://www.gov.uk/bringing-cash-into-uk.

SuperRich conversions - There has been a number of other people talking about this company and I am not familiar with their ability to get large amounts changed from Baht to other currency - "Chaing mai" posted here that when he tried to get 5K GBP and it took a long time to get the funds together from the different banks even for this modest amount - So I suppose that you are saying that SuperRich can do the bigger amounts .....yes? - If so good to know so this can be seen as a resource to increase the £1k Baht limit to the higher 10K Euros limitation and still stay legal. Good call!

[sms747]

I have only changed small amounts at superich but remember them saying 150k was the limit, you could always phone and ask superrich1965.com, There is another company also called superich but this is the original one. My SIL works at a bank at gets good rates, but superrich were still better.

Edited March 5, 2014 by sms747

[EyesWideOpen]

Not sure if this is a problem now, as Thai banks seemed to have moved into a bit more

normal international banking. Sitting at home, I can log into my Bangkok Bank account,

and with a few button pushes easily send a wire to my account in America. No scenes

at the bank pleading for your money...... Not sure of the upper limits, last time I did a wire

transfer think it was about 3000 dollars..