UK National Insurance Number

[durhamboy]

My Thai wife has been in the UK for about a year. She is not working and has no intention to work in the foreseeable future. I was wondering if there are any benefits for her to have a National Insurance number?

[Pormax]

Yes I believe so. though I stand to be corrected if wrong,, but it could be helpful if hospital admission needed and to claim pensions at a later stage should you die before her.

It will definetely do no harm to get one and it should be easy enough to apply.

Suggest you go to the 'Job Centre' who will put you right. Look at their web site.

[Jip99]

There are no pensions to claim 'later', they are only earned based on one's own contributions.

There are likely to be bereavement benefits 'later' and the DWP will issue a NI number at that stage.

Personally, i can't see the point in getting one if she does not intend to work and I doubt that HMCR will issue one - I am happy to stand corrected on that if anyone has evidence to the contrary.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Jip99

[prakhonchai nick]

I am inclined to go with Jip 99's comments, and I too doubt a NI number will be issued if there is no intention to look for work.

But as Pormax says, there is no harm in asking the question.

A NI number will likely be required one day to enable the wife to claim bereavement benefits (presuming she outlives her husband), but it will be automatically provided when the bereavement claim is made. It is not necessary to have one before.

[oldgent]

not sure if this related to UK national insurance number but just been to get my eye test in UK and was asked for my

new HEALTH and CARE number. apparently everyone has one. good of the government to inform us.

anyway you must call your UK doctor for to get it.

[theoldgit]

I seem to recall, from my working days, that a the Health and Care Numbers were only issued in Northern Ireland, not heard that they've been migrated across the Irish Sea.

[Jip99]

I seem to recall, from my working days, that a the Health and Care Numbers were only issued in Northern Ireland, not heard that they've been migrated across the Irish Sea.

Surely he means NHS number ?

Nothing comes up on Google for "Health Care Numbers" - except NI:-

The Health and Care Number was introduced for the use and benefit of patients and clients resident within Northern Ireland. This number will be used, from birth, for life for receipt of Health and Social Services in Northern Ireland.

The Health and Care Number is a 10 digit number randomly selected and allocated to everyone in Northern Ireland. The first two characters of the Health and Care Number must always lie within the range 32 - 39.

[7by7]

As has been said, it is unlikely that your wife will be issued with a NI number unless she has need of one.

For example, if the two of you want to claim tax credits or child benefit.

Wont hurt to ask, though.

When and how to apply for a National Insurance number from HMRC.

Note that there are a number of commercial firms who will guide you through the process; for a fee! Not worth it, IMHO.

[oldgent]

I seem to recall, from my working days, that a the Health and Care Numbers were only issued in Northern Ireland, not heard that they've been migrated across the Irish Sea.

you are correct. although N Ireland is part of the UK we do seem to have differences with in the laws

[Waterloo]

Durham

I suspect the answer is yes but it would depend on both you & your wife's circumstances I do not pretend to be an expert on this subject.

I also do not believe working is a pre-requisite for an NI number, people need to realise that entitlement to a state pension is contribution based on an individuals contributions.

Your wife does not necessarily need to be working to be earning contributions.

a) You could be making voluntary contributions on her behalf http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ni/volcontr/basics.htm I have included a link here for you

b)If you are entitled to child benefit and are not working the goverment pay your NI contributions http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/childbenefit/start/claiming/protect-pension.htm

In our case the wife has not worked for the last 3.5 years since our little boy was born, during this time I have been in full time employment & not needed the contributions.

In this circumstance it is possible to transfer the contributions to earn future pension entitlement.

I was a bit slow on this not being aware of this but was still able to back claim 18 months contributions on the wifes behalf & as a result she now has 3.5 years of pension entitlement despite not working for the last 3.5 years.

depending on your circumstances this may or not be any help

Edited March 4, 2014 by Waterloo

[bobrussell]

She will be issued with an NHS number when she registers with a GP. Nothing to do with a NI number.

Getting a NI number will do no harm but is really of little use unless working (then it is required). It does not show a right to work, that is shown on the visa paperwork. My wife had the old style vignette in her passport. Presumably the residence permit indicates the right to work!

[srn89]

Take her to a job centre and apply, very easy, worthwhile having whether she intends working or not is irrelevant, no cost involved.

[Waterloo]

As stated earlier probably your biggest consideration is her possible future entitlement for a state pension, for which she will shortly need 35 years of NI contributions for a full pension.

If she cannot achieve 35 years of contributions due to her age then her entitlement will be prorated based on contributions made.

She does not need to be working to make contributions as per my previous post, despite what some people say about this not being important I personally think it is potentially critical depending on your circumstances.

I urge you to look into this further, it is a weight of my mind that my wife under the current rules will only be short about 6 months of contributions which we intend to back pay so she is entitled to a full state pension in her own right when she reaches state retirement age.

[durhamboy]

Many thanks for all the useful comments. She does already have an NHS number which, as Bob Russell says, is different from an NI number. So the only real issue is pension entitlements. Assuming that she never works, gets her British citizenship and I die first, would she not then be entitled to pension credit - also assuming she continues to live in the UK? Presumably she could get an NI number then if it is required.

[FiftyTwo]

There are no pensions to claim 'later', they are only earned based on one's own contributions.

There are likely to be bereavement benefits 'later' and the DWP will issue a NI number at that stage.

Personally, i can't see the point in getting one if she does not intend to work and I doubt that HMCR will issue one - I am happy to stand corrected on that if anyone has evidence to the contrary.

Benefits of NI number.

1 You can sign on as 'job seeking' and have your NI payments made for you.

2 You can make voluntary NI payments (which is the cheapest and best investment ever)

[Waterloo]

There are no pensions to claim 'later', they are only earned based on one's own contributions.

There are likely to be bereavement benefits 'later' and the DWP will issue a NI number at that stage.

Personally, i can't see the point in getting one if she does not intend to work and I doubt that HMCR will issue one - I am happy to stand corrected on that if anyone has evidence to the contrary.

Benefits of NI number.

1 You can sign on as 'job seeking' and have your NI payments made for you.

2 You can make voluntary NI payments (which is the cheapest and best investment ever)

Agreed did a fag packet calculation of contributions against benefits and compared it against my private pension forecasts, remarkably cheap by comparison.

Also remember as long as she makes the required contributions she does not need to remain in the UK when she claims her pension under current legislation.

It will of course not be indexed linked if she returned to Thailand as it would be if she stayed in the UK.

This is a long running topic in the pension forum.

You will not find a cheaper way to provide for your wife's retirement assuming she is young enough to acquire enough contributions

[Waterloo]

Many thanks for all the useful comments. She does already have an NHS number which, as Bob Russell says, is different from an NI number. So the only real issue is pension entitlements. Assuming that she never works, gets her British citizenship and I die first, would she not then be entitled to pension credit - also assuming she continues to live in the UK? Presumably she could get an NI number then if it is required.

Not sure what you mean by pension credit, but if you mean widows pension they are now a thing of the past your wife needs to have her own record of contributions.

[durhamboy]

Pension credit guarantees a minimum income to anyone who has reached pension age, lives in the UK and is not subject to immigration control. Currently this is £7,560 for a single person. It is claimable regardless of a person's work record or N.I. record.

The Government is currently trying to introduce a flat rate pension of c. £7,500 p.a. for which the claimant must have 35 years of N.I. contributions. Less than 35 years contribs and it will be reduced pro-rata and if you have less than 10 years you get nothing. This is for people reaching pension age after 2016.

The difference between the state pension and pension credit is that you are entitled to a state pension as a matter of right (if you qualify) whereas pension credit is means tested and will be reduced if you have other income (such as savings and, indeed, state pension).

It is all rather complicated with the new proposals and changes to qualifying ages (which are increasing).

Doing the "fag packet" calculation I can't really see the point of getting my wife an N.I. number and paying (or claiming through JSA) N.I. contributions as the most she could get in state pension is far less than the pension credit she could claim so whatever state pension she got would be topped up to the amount of pension credit.

Of course there are a lot of other factors such as who dies first and whether she goes back to Thailand.

[7by7]

I don't think that she would be entitled to pension credit, or any other means tested benefit, if she wasn't a UK resident; i.e. you and she retire to Thailand. Happy to be proven wrong on that, though.

The state pension is, as you say, a right; provided she has paid or been credited with sufficient contributions, and will be paid wherever she lives in her retirement. (Though not indexed link in many countries, including Thailand. But that's another topic.)

Of course, if she 'signs on' she wont get any contribution based JSA as she hasn't made any NI contributions, and she wont get any JSA either, even if you are yourself on a very low income, as that is on the list of proscribed public funds until she has ILR.

So the only reason for her doing so would be to get NI contribution credits.

But were she to do so, she would have to be available for work, complete a job search record to show each fortnight when she attends the job centre, attend any job interviews the job centre arrange for her, have acceptable reasons for refusing any job offers etc.

Edit;

Indeed, I'm not sure that she would be entitled to NI credits anyway until she has ILR.

Edited March 7, 2014 by 7by7

[Waterloo]

I don't think that she would be entitled to pension credit, or any other means tested benefit, if she wasn't a UK resident; i.e. you and she retire to Thailand. Happy to be proven wrong on that, though.

The state pension is, as you say, a right; provided she has paid or been credited with sufficient contributions, and will be paid wherever she lives in her retirement. (Though not indexed link in many countries, including Thailand. But that's another topic.)

Of course, if she 'signs on' she wont get any contribution based JSA as she hasn't made any NI contributions, and she wont get any JSA either, even if you are yourself on a very low income, as that is on the list of proscribed public funds until she has ILR.

So the only reason for her doing so would be to get NI contribution credits.

But were she to do so, she would have to be available for work, complete a job search record to show each fortnight when she attends the job centre, attend any job interviews the job centre arrange for her, have acceptable reasons for refusing any job offers etc.

Edit;

Indeed, I'm not sure that she would be entitled to NI credits anyway until she has ILR.

Last year I had 32 months of child benefit NI credits transferred from my name to my wife's name despite her only being on ILR for 4 months of that time & FLR for the rest.

I wrote an accompanying letter with my completed form CF411A and was extremely explict about her dates of achieving FLR & ILR as the accompanying guidance notes weren't particularly clear on this point.