Missing Malaysia Airlines jet carrying 239 triggers Southeast Asia search

[JesseFrank]

The cargo manifest is now in the public domain.

View it at :http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/MH370CargoManifestandAirwayBill.pdf

Interesting that the 200 to 300 kilos of lithium ion batteries, quoted by MAS, turns out to be 2453 kilograms

And that is probably the reason why when I try to order a Lifepo battery from HK today every supplier quotes me 8 weeks shipping time, since now lithium batteries can only be shipped by boat,

[NeverSure]

Back to the beginning re batteries. If a theory emerges that there was a battery fire, out the window goes the idea that the plane flew for hours.

If batteries were the problem, they would also have to explain the turn just before 'Nam, and the silence. Therefore the plane couldn't have gone far after that and there would be huge debris field off the coast of Cambodia or Thailand or Malaysia or some near area.

It wasn't batteries.

Edited May 1, 2014 by NeverSure

[3NUMBAS]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/flight-mh370-search--malaysian-jet-s-tail--found-near-vietnam-by-british-marine-archaeologist-131717611.html#yR3UqF1

British marine archaeologist claims he's found MH370 debris off Vietnam coast - 3,000 miles from search area Tim Akers, 56, believes he has identified a section of what he thinks is a tail of the missing jet off the coast of Vietnam - around 1,000 miles from where the plane took off in Kuala Lumpur

His claims may be more credible than you’d think - in 2006 Mr Akers said he’d found HMAS Sydney, despite 60 years of government and international searches.

His claim was then seemingly verified in March 2008 when the wreck was discovered by American marine scientist David Mearns, near the same location Mr Akers predicted off the coast of Australia.

Edited May 1, 2014 by 3NUMBAS

[Chicog]

Missing plane: Wives of cabin crew want answers

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-27239262

BBC 2hrs ago.

Presumably the first question is "Where are our ****ing husbands?".

[Chicog]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/flight-mh370-search--malaysian-jet-s-tail--found-near-vietnam-by-british-marine-archaeologist-131717611.html#yR3UqF1

British marine archaeologist claims he's found MH370 debris off Vietnam coast - 3,000 miles from search area Tim Akers, 56, believes he has identified a section of what he thinks is a tail of the missing jet off the coast of Vietnam - around 1,000 miles from where the plane took off in Kuala Lumpur

His claims may be more credible than you’d think - in 2006 Mr Akers said he’d found HMAS Sydney, despite 60 years of government and international searches.

His claim was then seemingly verified in March 2008 when the wreck was discovered by American marine scientist David Mearns, near the same location Mr Akers predicted off the coast of Australia.

So they didn't spot it from the ship then?

[catterwell]

MH370 report reveals 4-hour gap before official search for plane began

By Holly Yan, CNN

May 1, 2014 -- Updated 1315 GMT (2115 HKT)

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/01/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane-report/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Very Interesting.

Official Malaysian initial report.

Worth a close read I am sure.

Links to the report dated 9 April.

http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2014/04/world/malaysia-flight-documents/

http://www.nst.com.my/latest/font-color-red-mh370-tragedy-font-mot-releases-preliminary-report-audio-recordings-1.584574

[F4UCorsair]

The cargo manifest is now in the public domain.

View it at :http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/MH370CargoManifestandAirwayBill.pdf

Interesting that the 200 to 300 kilos of lithium ion batteries, quoted by MAS, turns out to be 2453 kilograms

And that is probably the reason why when I try to order a Lifepo battery from HK today every supplier quotes me 8 weeks shipping time, since now lithium batteries can only be shipped by boat,

As far as I know, that's been the case for years. I've tried to order lithium batteries rom Tower Hobbies in the US, and always receive the message that they cannot be transported by air, and that goes back at least seven years. That policy may have changed, and I haven't tried to order recently, certainly for a couple of years.

[F4UCorsair]

If both engines fail on the B777 then the autopilot will automatically disconnect until such time that you get a generator working when you can then re engage the autopilot. That's not going to happen with fuel exhaustion of course.

But the likelihood of both engines suffering fuel exhaustion simultaneously is probably zero. If one failed, the auto pilot would run out of authority, and the aircraft would begin to roll, the AP would then disengage, and the aircraft would crash.

[Carmine6]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/flight-mh370-search--malaysian-jet-s-tail--found-near-vietnam-by-british-marine-archaeologist-131717611.html#yR3UqF1

British marine archaeologist claims he's found MH370 debris off Vietnam coast - 3,000 miles from search area Tim Akers, 56, believes he has identified a section of what he thinks is a tail of the missing jet off the coast of Vietnam - around 1,000 miles from where the plane took off in Kuala Lumpur

His claims may be more credible than you’d think - in 2006 Mr Akers said he’d found HMAS Sydney, despite 60 years of government and international searches.

His claim was then seemingly verified in March 2008 when the wreck was discovered by American marine scientist David Mearns, near the same location Mr Akers predicted off the coast of Australia.

So they didn't spot it from the ship then?

His claim is there's something sinister not being told to the public. He claims that some ships appear to have collected the things he's identified. His website link below. The somewhat crazy part is this is all located right off the Vietnamese coast.

Map from his site showing the location of all this activity attached. There would have been all kinds of floating debris that fishermen and others would have picked up.

http://www.australias-titanic.com/malaysian-flight-mh370/

[F4UCorsair]

Back to the beginning re batteries. If a theory emerges that there was a battery fire, out the window goes the idea that the plane flew for hours.

If batteries were the problem, they would also have to explain the turn just before 'Nam, and the silence. Therefore the plane couldn't have gone far after that and there would be huge debris field off the coast of Cambodia or Thailand or Malaysia or some near area.

It wasn't batteries.

Unless, of course, that there was leakage and toxic fumes that disabled the crew and pax??

The problem with that theory though is that the aircraft would still have crashed somewhere, and there would be debris. No debris, so that theory doesn't fly either.

[F4UCorsair]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/flight-mh370-search--malaysian-jet-s-tail--found-near-vietnam-by-british-marine-archaeologist-131717611.html#yR3UqF1

British marine archaeologist claims he's found MH370 debris off Vietnam coast - 3,000 miles from search area Tim Akers, 56, believes he has identified a section of what he thinks is a tail of the missing jet off the coast of Vietnam - around 1,000 miles from where the plane took off in Kuala Lumpur

His claims may be more credible than you’d think - in 2006 Mr Akers said he’d found HMAS Sydney, despite 60 years of government and international searches.

His claim was then seemingly verified in March 2008 when the wreck was discovered by American marine scientist David Mearns, near the same location Mr Akers predicted off the coast of Australia.

So they didn't spot it from the ship then?

His claim is there's something sinister not being told to the public. He claims that some ships appear to have collected the things he's identified. His website link below. The somewhat crazy part is this is all located right off the Vietnamese coast.

Map from his site showing the location of all this activity attached. There would have been all kinds of floating debris that fishermen and others would have picked up.

http://www.australias-titanic.com/malaysian-flight-mh370/

The 'crash site' is way east of where the aircraft was seen, on radar, to turn almost 180 degrees.

Bad news doesn't get better with time, so if there is any truth in this report, and I doubt it, a cover up by the authorities (Malaysia government) would be received even worse by other governments, particularly the Australian, who it is claimed has sunk $60 Million into the search so far.

Additionally, there would be debris right along the coast, and in what I'd suggest may be relatively shallow water fished heavily, so hundreds, if not thousands, of fishing vessels to pick up and report debris. You can't keep everybody quiet for long.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Scott

[NeverSure]

I keep coming back to the notion that the plane landed in any one of a bunch of terrorist sympathetic countries, is in a hangar, and hostage negotiations are in progress.

Nothing else can explain away why there has been no debris found even on the ocean floor, and almost silence from Malaysia, China, the US and the Western allies. China had a lot of value on that plane in the form of people and knowledge, and I think their apparent lack of concern in the ocean says something.

The US, with all of its assets in Guam and Diego Garcia, and always running at least two Nimitz-class carriers in the area is MIA and there were Americans on that plane.

Every other theory so far I can explain away.

[Carmine6]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/flight-mh370-search--malaysian-jet-s-tail--found-near-vietnam-by-british-marine-archaeologist-131717611.html#yR3UqF1

British marine archaeologist claims he's found MH370 debris off Vietnam coast - 3,000 miles from search area Tim Akers, 56, believes he has identified a section of what he thinks is a tail of the missing jet off the coast of Vietnam - around 1,000 miles from where the plane took off in Kuala Lumpur

His claims may be more credible than you’d think - in 2006 Mr Akers said he’d found HMAS Sydney, despite 60 years of government and international searches.

His claim was then seemingly verified in March 2008 when the wreck was discovered by American marine scientist David Mearns, near the same location Mr Akers predicted off the coast of Australia.

So they didn't spot it from the ship then?

His claim is there's something sinister not being told to the public. He claims that some ships appear to have collected the things he's identified. His website link below. The somewhat crazy part is this is all located right off the Vietnamese coast.

Map from his site showing the location of all this activity attached. There would have been all kinds of floating debris that fishermen and others would have picked up.

http://www.australias-titanic.com/malaysian-flight-mh370/

The 'crash site' is way east of where the aircraft was seen, on radar, to turn almost 180 degrees.

Bad news doesn't get better with time, so if there is any truth in this report, and I doubt it, a cover up by the authorities (Malaysia government) would be received even worse by other governments, particularly the Australian, who it is claimed has sunk $60 Million into the search so far.

Additionally, there would be debris right along the coast, and in what I'd suggest may be relatively shallow water fished heavily, so hundreds, if not thousands, of fishing vessels to pick up and report debris. You can't keep everybody quiet for long.

Yeah, to be clear it's not a believable scenario. Wouldn't really be Malaysia, but Vietnam hiding things or at least in collusion, unless they have no issue with foreign ships pulling up to collect debris right off the coast in broad daylight. The Chinese were looking in this area also, via satellite at minimum, and there were probably several country's ships around as well. Not necessarily right in this area, but this wouldn't only be 3 pieces of floating debris in a tiny area.

[boomerangutang]

Thanks for posting the link. Below are some excerpts from the 5 page (is that brief, or what!?) report released yesterday by Malaysian authorities: {Boomerangutang's comments in brackets}

The flight radioed its last words to the Kuala Lumpur Air Traffic Control Centre at 1:19 a.m. local time

Then at 1:38 a.m., Ho Chi Minh contacted Kuala Lumpur to let the controllers know that it had not heard a word from the plane. "Verbal contact was not established," the transcript said.

At 2:03 a.m. came the first seemingly reassuring message from the (Malaysia) airline. The plane was in Cambodian airspace, the airline told Kuala Lumpur air traffic control. {Lie #1}

The airline later confirmed its reassuring message. It had been able to "exchange signals with the flight," which was in Cambodian airspace, the transcript read. {This was lie #2}

Malaysian air traffic controllers kept in communication with the (Malaysia) airline, which gave them yet another seemingly reassuring message at 2:35 a.m. The airliner was "in normal condition based on signal download," which placed it off the coast of Vietnam. {Lie #3}

It was 3:30 a.m., but two more hours would pass before air traffic controllers notified rescuers.

Then at 5:20 a.m., a Malaysian official pronounced, based on what was known, "MH370 never left Malaysian airspace."

Ten minutes later, Malaysian air traffic controllers alerted a rescue coordination center.

source

Boomerangutang's comment: Four hours before authorities told rescuers to mobilize. The people from Malaysia Airlines who gave false info, should be severely disciplined. When we, the public, buy tickets to fly on their planes, we're trusting that they do everything reasonable to assure a safe flight. We don't expect them to lie, in order to try and paint a pretty face on serious problems.

Edited May 2, 2014 by boomerangutang

[F4UCorsair]

boomerangutang, from my time working in Asian countries, and in particular Japan (even though the Japanese don't consider themselves 'Asian') this would be passed off as a 'communication error', or a 'misunderstanding'.

I have never come across such prevarication in people, and never heard the words, 'almost, maybe, and sometimes', so often. I would often ask if they meant 'almost/'maybe yes, or 'almost/maybe no'. They have difficulty in making unequivocal statements, all of them.

[boomerangutang]

I don't think there is any government hiding things in this imbroglio, except the Malaysians.

American officialdom wouldn't have done any ridiculous monkey biz (Diego Garcia or whatever). That's conspiracy theory on par with a big pogo stick in the Pacific being responsible for the Fukushima earthquake/tsunami.

[canuckamuck]

Are you familiar with the CIA's history of monkey biz?

[boomerangutang]

boomerangutang, from my time working in Asian countries, and in particular Japan (even though the Japanese don't consider themselves 'Asian') this would be passed off as a 'communication error', or a 'misunderstanding'.

I have never come across such prevarication in people, and never heard the words, 'almost, maybe, and sometimes', so often. I would often ask if they meant 'almost/'maybe yes, or 'almost/maybe no'. They have difficulty in making unequivocal statements, all of them.

I know what you mean. I was going to play the 'Asian card' in response to the screw-ups by Malaysia Airline personnel - in painting a false picture of what happened in the crucial hours after the flight 'disappeared'. But didn't want to appear racist.

Asians are also known to give the answer they think the questioner wants to hear, rather than the plain truth. This is particularly true when farang asks the question. I'm in the habit now, when I ask an Asian an important question, to offer them a list of answers, one at a time with pauses, that might not be what I want to hear.

Example: it's not good enough to say, "is the bus leaving soon?"

Because, they'll say, "Yes, any minute now."

You need to say something like: Is the bus leaving in five minutes?

In fifteen minutes? In an hour? In over two hours from now? Do you actually know when the bus is leaving, or are you guessing? Can you tell me who really knows?

[F4UCorsair]

I've just re-read the HMAS Sydney Bulletin/newsletter, and they ask "Why has Australia taken control of the search?"

Possibly because it's in Australia's SAR agreed area of responsibility? That they would even ask such a question, indicates to me that they have little idea of what they are talking about, and that they've probably been duped by photoshopped pics. They would do well to take a look at the tab "HOAXES" on their site before spruiking further on this subject.

The the area of SAR responsibility could so easily be determined here http://www.amsa.gov.au/search-and-rescue/sar-in-australia/arrangements-in-australia/ and they ask the question shows they have little idea about anything, so it's probable that anything they contend in their newsletter can be easily discounted. One must wonder how much of the information on finding the HMAS Sydney is accurate.

The vast area even surprised me, 52.8 MILLION square kilometers, and more than half way to Africa!!

Edited May 2, 2014 by F4UCorsair

[tigermonkey]

Back to the beginning re batteries. If a theory emerges that there was a battery fire, out the window goes the idea that the plane flew for hours.

If batteries were the problem, they would also have to explain the turn just before 'Nam, and the silence. Therefore the plane couldn't have gone far after that and there would be huge debris field off the coast of Cambodia or Thailand or Malaysia or some near area.

It wasn't batteries.

Unless, of course, that there was leakage and toxic fumes that disabled the crew and pax??

The problem with that theory though is that the aircraft would still have crashed somewhere, and there would be debris. No debris, so that theory doesn't fly either.

I also do not believe that a Li-Ion fire or leakage is believable as a cause for MH370's disappearance, even though there was an unusually large quantity on board. If the batteries were wrapped according to shipping standards. any fire would be contained (theoretically) within the packaging and the venting/leakage of one would cause only small problems. A large-scale fire would bring the T7 down quite quickly, while a large-scale leakage from so many batteries is almost impossible to imagine. I am however bothered by MAS saying they only had 2-300 kilos on board when they had 10 times that quantity.

I can ascribe this to incompetence, until we look at the voice recordings which were released at the same time. They have been heavily edited and come from several sources. Why all this cloak and dagger act ?

More on the recordings : http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/missing-jet/missing-jet-recordings-may-have-been-edited-experts-n94941

Edited May 2, 2014 by tigermonkey

[boomerangutang]

Audio recordings were published Thursday (may 1st) for the first time as part of a preliminary report by Malaysian authorities.

Kent Gibson, an audio examiner with Forensic Audio in Los Angeles, said it’s possible the tapes could have been edited by Malaysian authorities "if the pilot dropped a hint that they didn't want to get out, if he said something that doesn't fit with the Malaysian government's party line."

"Unfortunately, there are no smoking guns, except there are edits. And there are clear edits," he said.

source

Edited May 2, 2014 by boomerangutang

[JesseFrank]

The cargo manifest is now in the public domain.

View it at :http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/MH370CargoManifestandAirwayBill.pdf

Interesting that the 200 to 300 kilos of lithium ion batteries, quoted by MAS, turns out to be 2453 kilograms

And that is probably the reason why when I try to order a Lifepo battery from HK today every supplier quotes me 8 weeks shipping time, since now lithium batteries can only be shipped by boat,

As far as I know, that's been the case for years. I've tried to order lithium batteries rom Tower Hobbies in the US, and always receive the message that they cannot be transported by air, and that goes back at least seven years. That policy may have changed, and I haven't tried to order recently, certainly for a couple of years.

A similar message I get from every supplier now, 3 weeks ago it was still possible to ship with Sweden post as the only one, and before that HK post and Singapore post also weren't an issue.So something must have caused a drastic change

Now all Li battery can't shipping by airmail in local post to you , if really need to send out only by surface mail , but the shipment time need 4-8 weeks .

And other way can shipping by UPS airmail is ok , but the shipping will higher .

[RubbaJohnny]

time for the press ,families to ask for an explanaion of the edits descriced on nbc

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/missing-jet/missing-jet-recordings-may-have-been-edited-experts-n94941

[boomerangutang]

If the black box is found, it will most likely get to this specialty lab in Canberra Australia called; Australian Transport Safety Bureau's accident investigation lab.

here's a quote from Senior Transport Safety Investigator Neil Campbell (over 20 years on the job), taken from a BBC interview at the lab.

In the case of the Boeing 777, Campbell says, the flight data recorder captures about 2,000 parameters for up to 25 hours. Those include everything from altitude and airspeed, to flap settings, engine performance, even cabin temperature and pressure. Campbell says some of the key parameters are recorded as often as eight times per second. The cockpit voice recorder captures four audio channels for a maximum of two hours before overwriting.

[tigermonkey]

The cargo manifest is now in the public domain.

View it at :http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/MH370CargoManifestandAirwayBill.pdf

Interesting that the 200 to 300 kilos of lithium ion batteries, quoted by MAS, turns out to be 2453 kilograms

And that is probably the reason why when I try to order a Lifepo battery from HK today every supplier quotes me 8 weeks shipping time, since now lithium batteries can only be shipped by boat,

As far as I know, that's been the case for years. I've tried to order lithium batteries rom Tower Hobbies in the US, and always receive the message that they cannot be transported by air, and that goes back at least seven years. That policy may have changed, and I haven't tried to order recently, certainly for a couple of years.

A similar message I get from every supplier now, 3 weeks ago it was still possible to ship with Sweden post as the only one, and before that HK post and Singapore post also weren't an issue.So something must have caused a drastic change

Now all Li battery can't shipping by airmail in local post to you , if really need to send out only by surface mail , but the shipment time need 4-8 weeks .

And other way can shipping by UPS airmail is ok , but the shipping will higher .

The IATA Dangerous Goods Regulations related to lithium batteries have undergone several changes in the past few years. Looking only at lithium-ion batteries which are the most common, I believe that the new regs have been around for about a year - much longer in the USA. Understanding of the regs and compliance have not occurred quickly.

In general, li-ion batteries are classified by electrical capacity and whether loose or attached to a device. There are complex packaging regs for each class when shipped as air cargo. The objectives of the packaging are to avoid damage to the battery, to avoid shorting of the terminals, to contain any fire in the battery and to contain any leakage of the battery. These regulations apply to both "loose" batteries or batteries attached to a device, and are somewhat less stringent for a/c carrying no passengers. Since it would be impossible to enforce these regs for Air Mail packages, which travel by air cargo, no rli-ion batteries are allowed to be sent Air Mail - a logical decision.

Similarly, a passenger is NOT allowed to place any lithium-ion battery in his/her checked luggage, whether attached to a device or loose. It/they must be carried in your carry on so that cabin crew can deal with any problems which might arise

Some more reading if you care for it : http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/cargo/dgr/Pages/lithium-batteries.aspx

Edited May 2, 2014 by tigermonkey

[F4UCorsair]

Lifted from another site, and I haven't validated the information

according to packing instructions 965 section II, only 35 kgs of lithium ion allowed for "CARGO ONLY A/C" but only 5kgs allowed for "PAX A/C"...

i am sure the capt of Mh370 will suspect something when he saw 2400++kgs of lithium ion in his cargo..

very suspicious...

Of course, this is not relevant if the batteries didn't contribute to the disappearance, but it may/does reveal that some airlines are prepared to 'bend the regs' in their own commercial interest.

Edit: I just googled this, and found this link http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/cargo/dgr/Documents/Lithium-Battery-Packing-Instructions-965-970-EN.pdf

I haven't yet read it, no time right now, so can't say if it's consistent with the info posted above, but somebody interested enough may want to trawl through it?

Edited May 2, 2014 by F4UCorsair

[P45Mustang]

Missing plane: Wives of cabin crew want answers

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-27239262

BBC 2hrs ago.

Presumably the first question is "Where are our ****ing husbands?".

They certainly aren't impressed with the S. Indian Ocean story.

Malaysians querying the credibility of Malaysian authorities.

I found it interesting.

[P45Mustang]

I'd be taking a closer look in the Vietnam area.

Personally, I would require conclusive proof that the oil rig worker was "seeing things".

Lithium battery fire, who knows?

But I bet you a penny to a pound, cargo is moving from KL to Beijing everyday and there will be commercial interests attached to it.

Edited May 2, 2014 by P45Mustang

[folium]

boomerangutang, from my time working in Asian countries, and in particular Japan (even though the Japanese don't consider themselves 'Asian') this would be passed off as a 'communication error', or a 'misunderstanding'.

I have never come across such prevarication in people, and never heard the words, 'almost, maybe, and sometimes', so often. I would often ask if they meant 'almost/'maybe yes, or 'almost/maybe no'. They have difficulty in making unequivocal statements, all of them.

I know what you mean. I was going to play the 'Asian card' in response to the screw-ups by Malaysia Airline personnel - in painting a false picture of what happened in the crucial hours after the flight 'disappeared'. But didn't want to appear racist.

Asians are also known to give the answer they think the questioner wants to hear, rather than the plain truth. This is particularly true when farang asks the question. I'm in the habit now, when I ask an Asian an important question, to offer them a list of answers, one at a time with pauses, that might not be what I want to hear.

Example: it's not good enough to say, "is the bus leaving soon?"

Because, they'll say, "Yes, any minute now."

You need to say something like: Is the bus leaving in five minutes?

In fifteen minutes? In an hour? In over two hours from now? Do you actually know when the bus is leaving, or are you guessing? Can you tell me who really knows?

Personally I find the key thing is not to ask a question that can be answered with a "yes" or "no".

Thus don't ask "is this the train to Lucknow?" as the response will be skewed to what the respondent thinks you want to hear based on your tone of voice and body language..

Instead ask "where does this train go to?' pointing at train standing on platform!

Has saved me all sorts of grief...

[P45Mustang]

Maybe somebody should have asked the pilot does this plane go to Beijing?