Missing Malaysia Airlines jet carrying 239 triggers Southeast Asia search

[speedtripler]

they probably traced it all the way accros malaysia ,if its on a weird or unusual flight path or makes a sudden 90 degree left turn for a few hundred miles that would be highly suspicious by itself ,if they didnt know which plane it was they would have insisted it identify itself

anyway ,all navy ships are equiped with radar anyway so its not as if the oceans are not monitored as well as land so we dont know if this military radar station was a ship or a fixed land antennae

They would have needed multiple radars to track it from the position of the the last transponder report. The frigate radars (Thales Netherlands (Signaal) DA-08) may not have detection capability beyond 160km, and may be even more limited in what range they can actually measure. (You can find RCS plots of scale-models of 777s on the web.)

i assume they have more than 1 radar station ,military radar should cover the country ,even if they need an antennae every 160miles

if it didnt it would be a bit useless in a war situation .......

I think that's why the big boys have satellites and submarines. Just sayin'.

the usa and china has pulled in all available satellietes to join this search ,over 20 from china alone i think

if they aint the big boys ,who is ?

[MrWorldwide]

there is already supersonic fighter jets usually in the air 24/7 and given the order they could get close enough to shoot anything down

within about 2 minutes ,not to mention air defence missles (sam) that could be launched from the ground (they travel at mach 5 and are radar guided so there practically zero chance of a miss to a plane this size

if malaysia has shot it down on the way back to k/l they will have a lot of explaining to do to the other 9 countries who are searching

1/4 of the world for a missing plane ............

Unless you are talking about the hours following the 9/11 attacks, I sincerely doubt that *any* nation - even the US - could afford to have fighter jets in the air 24/7 365 days a year ... this is straight out of the Thunderbirds. I served with Army Aviation here in Oz back in the 80s and maintaining aircraft that fly even 16 hours a day on exercise is a major undertaking, not to mention a serious drain on the taxpayer. That's the reason the US has different levels of terror alert - they need to know when to 'scramble the jets' - for a country like Malaysia to have anything even vaguely resembling that level of readiness is absurd.

@speedtripler, I really think you need to cut back on the caffeine and the Jack Ryan novels.

[MrWorldwide]

the usa and china has pulled in all available satellietes to join this search ,over 20 from china alone i think

if they aint the big boys ,who is ?

Yes - they would be the big boys - my post was in response to the assertion that military radar needs to cover the entire coastline and beyond. Logistically, I just dont know how realistic that is, but I'll leave it to the experts. A ten year old could tell you that they must have their own radar at Penang International, not to mention Phuket, but given that we seem to be focussed on things military I'll leave that alone for now.

[speedtripler]

there is already supersonic fighter jets usually in the air 24/7 and given the order they could get close enough to shoot anything down

within about 2 minutes ,not to mention air defence missles (sam) that could be launched from the ground (they travel at mach 5 and are radar guided so there practically zero chance of a miss to a plane this size

if malaysia has shot it down on the way back to k/l they will have a lot of explaining to do to the other 9 countries who are searching

1/4 of the world for a missing plane ............

Unless you are talking about the hours following the 9/11 attacks, I sincerely doubt that *any* nation - even the US - could afford to have fighter jets in the air 24/7 365 days a year ... this is straight out of the Thunderbirds. I served with Army Aviation here in Oz back in the 80s and maintaining aircraft that fly even 16 hours a day on exercise is a major undertaking, not to mention a serious drain on the taxpayer. That's the reason the US has different levels of terror alert - they need to know when to 'scramble the jets' - for a country like Malaysia to have anything even vaguely resembling that level of readiness is absurd.

@speedtripler, I really think you need to cut back on the caffeine and the Jack Ryan novels.

there is always jets on patrol ,in case you didnt know the defence budget is usually an afterthought

and they have fleets of planes so its not like theyre mainatining the same couple of planes in the air 24/7

maybe you need to go back to the 80's ?

[MrWorldwide]

speedtripler, are we talking the Malaysian Air Force or the Americans ? Please be specific.

[F430murci]

speedtripler, are we talking the Malaysian Air Force or the Americans ? Please be specific.

every country with an airforce patrols their airspace ,for a name like MR Worldwide you dont seem to know much about the world

It seems as if they scramble if and when needed in the US. I live close to Eglin in Destin and one of my offices is by PNS Pensacola. They do not seem to have constant patrols.

[MrWorldwide]

speedtripler, are we talking the Malaysian Air Force or the Americans ? Please be specific.

every country with an airforce patrols their airspace ,for a name like MR Worldwide you dont seem to know much about the world

It seems as if they scramble if and when needed in the US. I live close to Eglin in Destin and one of my offices is by PNS Pensacola. They do not seem to have constant patrols.

Thank you.

[MrWorldwide]

speedtripler, are we talking the Malaysian Air Force or the Americans ? Please be specific.

every country with an airforce patrols their airspace ,for a name like MR Worldwide you dont seem to know much about the world

Really ? Every country ? Constant patrols ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Cambodian_Air_Force

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNZAF

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Brunei_Air_Force

As for my board name, it refers to the alias adopted a rapper known as Pitbull - I'll leave you to Wiki it. Ramon and I may not know much about 'the world', but I'd like to think we understand the concept of finite resources and the sheer insanity of trying to keep jets (and refueling aircraft) in the air 24/7 for no reason other than to intercept unidentified aircraft. Either produce a link to an official source for your earlier statement or move on - I'm confident that none of the above countries (and Brunei is a rich country by regional standards) maintain constant air patrols through their airspace.

[Carib]

uk and particularily ireland are both broke/bankrupt but both spend a lot on air defences ,constant training exercises for new pilots and ordering new technology

their airspace is well controlled and i assume theres a good reason for it ,i know this because i have lived and witnessed jets contstantly landing and taking off

and there is no military instability in that region .............unlike this region

Ah, you ones lived near an airfield, yup that makes you an eggspurt.

Some of you guys must live in a parallel universe or in a Hollywood cinema. It is embarrassing to read some of the utter nonsense displayed here.

[Scott]

Continued off-topic posting is going to earn posters a suspension. Making unsubstantiated assertions about military capabilities and misdirecting the topic to other discuss other countries is not permitted.

Please get on topic and stay on topic or stop posting.

[Mosha]

So after all the misdirection, the only sure thing is, Thailand's illegal trade in stolen passports?

[tx22cb]

Going by the sorry performances of the various Malaysian bodies (Airline, Government ministers, reticent Military, Passport Control), I would not totally trust this latest revelation (Strait of Malacca instead of Gulf of Thailand) until all the Malaysian data is independently verified by a competent party (e.g. the US, which has a lot more experience).

There could be further twists to this wild goose chase.

BTW, the Malaysian Govt must be furious with the Military for unauthorised talking to the media last night, instead of letting the PM give the news officially.

[geriatrickid]

speedtripler, are we talking the Malaysian Air Force or the Americans ? Please be specific.

every country with an airforce patrols their airspace ,for a name like MR Worldwide you dont seem to know much about the world

There is no need to keep equipment in the air. It is an expensive and needless exercise and results in a shortened lifespan for expensive aircraft. . There will be aircraft on standby that can be quickly deployed when needed.. Malaysia does not have its airforce deployed in the sky 24/7. Nor does the USA, not even over the USA or Canada. The NORAD standard is to have an ability to have planes off the ground within 15 minutes of an alert, and within 8 minutes of the alert being received at an airbase, and even that is only achievable at a handful of airbases.

[Mosha]

There will be a press conference at 15:00 Malay Time. I would suggest they get their story right this time.

[geriatrickid]

AP and Reuters ran a small article, which I haven't seen posted on this thread.

Legal limbo hampers probe

Investigators trying to solve the disappearance without trace of a Malaysia Airlines jetliner face an extremely rare challenge that could hinder their efforts: they lack the powers of a formal air safety investigation. Four days after Flight MH370 went missing in mid-air with 239 people on board, no nation has stepped forward to initiate and lead an official probe, leaving a formal leadership vacuum that industry experts say appears unprecedented. Malaysian officials are conducting their own informal investigations, in cooperation with other governments and foreign agencies, but they lack the legal powers that would come with a formal international probe under UN-sanctioned rules.

The country where the aircraft goes down leads the investigation. That country then calls in assistance from the manufacturer, and the manufacturer's regulatory authority. It can request assistance from one of the major countries with experience in large air crash investigations experience. The inability to pinpoint where the plane is has caused a serious issue in a region where there are conflicting territorial disputes and animosity between countries. There is currently no legal mandate for Malaysia to interview foreign ATC and to obtain evidence. All that it can count on is voluntary assistance. There are some parts of the ocean that are no go zones unless one wants a confrontation. Hopefully, there is no involvement with Thai airspace or water as the track record for Thailand with air crash investigations has not been good.

[craigt3365]

Just watching CNN. They are now saying the plane changed course and last radar contact was in the straights of Malaca, as it was heading towards Sumatra. The transponder was turned off just before it entered Vietnamese airspace. It disappeared from radar over the straights.

[craigt3365]

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/11/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Mystery Malaysia flight may have lost signal, gone hundreds of miles off course

[dcutman]

Why has not the Vietnamese military confirmed this change of course? If this change of course claimed by the Malaysian military is correct, would not Thailand's military be able to confirm this as well?

I believe most/all countries military radar have the capability to identify any type of aircraft, friend of foe, whether the transponder is on or off.

[Tywais]

Well, more confusion, denial and backtracking.

THE search for missing Flight MH370 has been thrown into yet more confusion after a key Malaysian military chief denied earlier reports that radar had spotted the plane hundreds of kilometres off course.

Air force chief General Rodzali Daud was quoted in a local pro-government newspaper as saying a military base had detected the Malaysia Airlines aircraft near an island in the Malacca Strait, far to the southwest of where it should have been headed.

The news injected even more mystery into the investigation of the Boeing 777 jetliner’s disappearance, with aviation experts theorising about how the plane could have strayed so far off track for so long.

But General Daud has since released a statement saying that while authorities have not ruled out the possibility the plane inexplicably changed course before losing contact, reports that it had been detected far from its planned flight path were incorrect.

“The (air force) has not ruled out the possibility of an air turn-back on a reciprocal heading before the aircraft vanished from the radar,” he said.

More here news.com.au

[Tywais]

Off topic posts regarding moderation removed.

[laobali]

What about the pilot and co-pilot?Pilot error?Accomplished?

Possibly "over-accomplished" in the case of the captain.

[Hulkster]

http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2014/03/12/Missing-MH370-Thai-Navy-may-cease-hunt/

All the world is looking for the plane......but thai will suspend...

As they should. Malaysia seems to be hiding information and has allowed countries to waste a lot of time and resources searching for phantom planes in the Gulf of Thailand.

[webfact]

Vietnam suspends air search for missing Malaysian jet

PHU QUOC, March 12, 2014 (AFP) - Vietnam said Wednesday it had suspended its air search for missing flight MH370 and scaled back a sea search as it waited for Malaysia to clarify the potential new direction of the multi-national hunt.

"We've decided to temporarily suspend some search and rescue activities, pending information from Malaysia," deputy minister of transport Pham Quy Tieu said, adding that boats were still searching the area, but on a smaller scale.

Malaysia has expanded the hunt for the missing Malaysian airliner into the Andaman Sea, hundreds of kilometres (miles) to the northwest of the original search radius, an official said Wednesday.

But it has denied a report that the plane with 239 people on board had been detected far from its planned flight path.

A Malaysian newspaper said radar had last detected the plane over the Strait of Malacca off western Malaysia.

"We've asked Malaysian authorities twice, but so far they have not replied to us," Tieu said, when asked about the report.

"We informed Malaysia on the day we lost contact with the flight that we noticed the flight turned back west but Malaysia did not respond," he added.


-- (c) Copyright AFP 2014-03-12

[dcutman]

http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2014/03/12/Missing-MH370-Thai-Navy-may-cease-hunt/

All the world is looking for the plane......but thai will suspend...

Can hardly blame the Thai military. This whole event has been a total goat rope from the beginning, and getting worse by the hour.

I am not sure, but if the Thai military was given some clear direction/mission they would still be searching.

[harrry]

Thailand pulling out, VIetnam suspending, I guess there is some straight talking going on somewhere without people just trying to protect their patch and their face.

[EyesWideOpen]

http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2014/03/12/Missing-MH370-Thai-Navy-may-cease-hunt/

All the world is looking for the plane......but thai will suspend...

As they should. Malaysia seems to be hiding information and has allowed countries to waste a lot of time and resources searching for phantom planes in the Gulf of Thailand.

I agree. The countries involved in search in the wrong area should bill Malaysia for the

wasted fuel and time...... At this point the interesting question becomes what is

Malaysia trying to cover up ??

[khwaibah]

http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2014/03/12/Missing-MH370-Thai-Navy-may-cease-hunt/

All the world is looking for the plane......but thai will suspend...

As they should. Malaysia seems to be hiding information and has allowed countries to waste a lot of time and resources searching for phantom planes in the Gulf of Thailand.

I agree. The countries involved in search in the wrong area should bill Malaysia for the

wasted fuel and time...... At this point the interesting question becomes what is

Malaysia trying to cover up ??

The main point is to find the plane but Malaysia has some very serious questions to answer for.

[laolover88]

I would still like to know if there is any corroborated evidence of this from reddit:
//removed foreign language//
"Furthermore, according to the US Embassy, at 2:43 in the morning, American military personnel stationed at U-Tapao
Airforce Base received an emergency SOS transmission from Malaysian Airlines Flight MH370; the captain of the
aircraft shouted that the cabin was disintegrating and the plane needed to make an emergency landing."

Edited March 12, 2014 by Tywais
Removed non English type

[sunshine51]

Greetings from Vietnam y'all.....what a goose chase this is and it ain't over yet.

But here are a few acts some may not know...MAS has huge financial problems.

They even tried to do a deal with Air Asia but AA's director told MAS/MalGov't

no way. Insurance must be quite high for an aircaft and all it entails....I smell

an insurance job....not that strange when you think about it....improbable yes,

impossible no. Never underestimate the power of supid people.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

If we go back to Tywais post earlier today, you'll see that apparently it's not entirely clear that the report about the plane being tracked on the opposite side of the Malay Peninsula is accurate. This kind of stuff is seeming to be the norm and pattern in this particular investigation.

What's the truth and facts here... Who knows!

But if I were one of the searching nations right now, I think I'd be telling Malaysia: "Get your F***ing act together!"

Well, more confusion, denial and backtracking.

THE search for missing Flight MH370 has been thrown into yet more confusion after a key Malaysian military chief denied earlier reports that radar had spotted the plane hundreds of kilometres off course.

Air force chief General Rodzali Daud was quoted in a local pro-government newspaper as saying a military base had detected the Malaysia Airlines aircraft near an island in the Malacca Strait, far to the southwest of where it should have been headed.

The news injected even more mystery into the investigation of the Boeing 777 jetliner’s disappearance, with aviation experts theorising about how the plane could have strayed so far off track for so long.

But General Daud has since released a statement saying that while authorities have not ruled out the possibility the plane inexplicably changed course before losing contact, reports that it had been detected far from its planned flight path were incorrect.

“The (air force) has not ruled out the possibility of an air turn-back on a reciprocal heading before the aircraft vanished from the radar,” he said.

More here news.com.au

Edited March 12, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK