Missing Malaysia Airlines jet carrying 239 triggers Southeast Asia search

[loongdavid]

Get a grip folks, really!

1. Wooden pallets are NOT used by airlines either in passenger aircraft or those dedicated to freight.

2. YES! it is illegal (IATA) to take in carry-on baggage pressure packs of any kind. Read the back of your ticket and the many posters in and around the departure lounge. By purchasing a ticket you have automatically agreed to IATAs conditions. Have you ever seen a suitcase where a pressure pack of shaving cream has exploded - not a pretty sight!

3. Do you really expect any country who has a submarine in the Indian Ocean that gets lucky and finds this aircraft to say how they did it, really!

[chooka]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

maybe they're keeping it quiet if subs are on station .

Naturally.

Thai subs are on the job

Do they have a sub? I thought it sunk in 1937

[boomerangutang]

Some surface ships, particularly navy, must have sonar they can drop with a tether. Not only subs have depth sonar.

[canuckamuck]

Here's a topographic chart of the IO's bottom showing depths & other info.

Couldn't find a better res one on the net and on this you need to strain your

eyes a fair bit to see the info. From other charts already posted one can

pretty much deduce the plane's location...if the debris is in fact from

MH370.

indian-ocean.jpg

Nope, I couldn't see the plane.

Well...on the same dam_n chart I can't see the plane either but if you take some

info that has already been posted on this forum and the web and do some smple

scaling you may get close to locating it or at least where the debris is. Then from

that you can hopefully see just how deep the water is. That's what I meant when I

hacked..."From other charts already posted one can pretty much deduce the

plane's location...if the debris is in fact from MH370."

I posted the chart as a reference for y'all to do some investigating on your own;

if you desire to do so that is.

Sorry I should have put a smiley in.

[sunshine51]

• ^^^ canuckamuck...Never mind! I also forgot to put the "i" in smple...hah!

Cheers!

[jamhar]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

maybe they're keeping it quiet if subs are on station .

Naturally.

Thai subs are on the job

Now a sub hub

(if someone else has used that line before, I most graciously apologize )

[EyesWideOpen]

Not really sure why they are chasing after miscellaneous debris floating around the ocean from blurry

satellite images. I think now we are on blurry object number 3 ?? I predict they will find nothing.

I do not know the solution to this puzzle, but am pretty sure they are on the wrong track......

[3NUMBAS]

pallets are used says here , mangosteens were loaded from a farm so you would expect them to use pallets to ship them ..

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/2014/03/23/missing-jetline-search-possible-debris/6782473/

"We went to some of the expert airlines and the use of wooden pallets is quite common in the industry," Barton said. "They're usually packed into another container which is loaded in the belly of the aircraft. … It's a possible lead, but we will need to be very certain that this is a pallet because pallets are used in the shipping industry as well," he said.

Edited March 23, 2014 by 3NUMBAS

[loongdavid]

"We went to some of the expert airlines and the use of wooden pallets is quite common in the industry," Barton said. "They're usually packed into another container which is loaded in the belly of the aircraft. … It's a possible lead, but we will need to be very certain that this is a pallet because pallets are used in the shipping industry as well," he said.

Utter, unadulterated rubbish! I, and I'm sure the International Air Transport Authority (IATA) would as well, love to know who these so called "expert airlines" are. All of the major airlines of the world are members of IATA. If they are not they just don't get permission to fly into countries that are. With the possible exception of military cargo aircraft on humanitarian relief missions I have never seen timber pallets used. I have a few bucks that says any timber pallet they find came off a dirty, smelly, rust ridden, rat infested, Taiwanese fishing boat.

[Farma]

loongdavid UPS airfreight packaging pointers disagree with what you say about pallets.

https://www.ups-scs.com/tools/packaging_pointers.pdf

Air Freight Pallets

Two common materials used to fabricate pallets are wood and plastic.

[JesseFrank]

pallets are used says here , mangosteens were loaded from a farm so you would expect them to use pallets to ship them ..

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/2014/03/23/missing-jetline-search-possible-debris/6782473/

"We went to some of the expert airlines and the use of wooden pallets is quite common in the industry," Barton said. "They're usually packed into another container which is loaded in the belly of the aircraft. … It's a possible lead, but we will need to be very certain that this is a pallet because pallets are used in the shipping industry as well," he said.

From the link

t is not immediately known if any pallets were used on Flight 370 that disappeared March 8 with 239 people on board after departing Kuala Lumpur for Beijing, but AMSA spokesman Sam Cardwell said a cargo manifest has been requested.

So after 15 days they finally decide to request a cargo manifest . Who knows next week they also start looking for the missing plane.

[skippybangkok]

FYI - southern indian current is between 1 and 3 knots now. Multiply that over 2.5 weeks and the hours.... so any floating stuff could be about 1000 nautical miles down stream. just wait a week, and can pick it up in perth !

[Carmine6]

Hi

yes there are definitely inconsistencies

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/I-saw-the-plane-in-Indian-Ocean-Johor-wife-30229770.html

Here it states that take-off time was 0830 hrs and the sighting was around 1430 hrs.

So yet another article had a material factual error in it. However, the original article now appears to be updated on this specific topic since it now says her quote was "...9.30am (2.30pm Malaysian time).." Even if she had messed up the time, how could it have been a real quote to have an hour change now? Sloppy reporting.

http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2014/03/21/Woman-reports-sighting-jet-Raja-Dalelah-Im-convinced-I-saw-aircraft-near-Andaman-islands/

I firmly believe it is possible to make out an airliner from 35,000 feet. The problem is she didn't claim to see a full airliner.

“I took a closer look and was shocked to see what looked like the tail and wing of an aircraft on the water,” she said.

So again, is that 2 pieces? Or one piece with full wing plus a tail? Missing the other wing and nose section? How much longer was the wing compared to the wings on the tail? Why didn't the journalist ask such basic questions? Plus talk to any of the people she told just to even verify what she told them that day. Or get the police report from that first day, though I'm not sure if the police allow witnesses to get copies there. The journalist should still make a call to the police ask if this woman or anyone had made a report that day.

For her to have spotted the plane, the satellite ping story and distance calculations would have to be wrong. That is of course possible, but what are the odds that they have messed that up given it is recorded data? Compared to this woman seeing something that looks like the wing and tail of an airplane in the water from 35,000 feet and at an unknown distance from her planes track? Plus as someone else mentioned, the lack of any emergency location signals.

I don't doubt her story. But I have a hard time believing she saw the plane wreckage versus something else. But they should really just do basic investigation of her story to make sure. Like have her draw what she saw and talk to the people she talked to that day. Get the original report.

[3NUMBAS]

several experts on sky news and BBC news stated that pallets were used inside other containers on aircraft .

otherwise there would be no way to get cargo to the airport for shipping ,as a shipper would have no access to the aircraft containers as they wouldn't be allowed outside the airport .

[mcfester]

This airport uses wooden pallets

[3NUMBAS]

mystery phone call to the captain 2 hours before takeoff...................

Investigators are examining the phone call made to Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah, the pilot of the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370, a few hours before take-off from a fake number.

The phone number, from which the phone call was made, was bought under the stolen identity of a woman, Malaysian authorities told Mail Online.

The telephone conversation, between Shah and the unidentified person before the flight, lasted for about two minutes and it was one of the last conversations.

The authorities appear to be giving much weight to the phone call as it was made from an unknown pay-as-you-go SIM card number in Malaysia.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/malaysia-airlines-mh370-pilot-captain-shah-received-phone-072516094.html#v09I3wh

[Tywais]

This airport uses wooden pallets

That is air cargo such as DHL, UPS, etc. and is expected as the cargo aircraft have loading facilities to do it. I just don't see a passenger aircraft using them except if placed within conventional metal containers as the loading/unloading systems are probably different.

Read a paper where they show tests on wood pallets carrying food products and 14+ percent of them have salmonella on them while plastic pallets around 1%. Just a FYI.

[Skint]

I doubt they would have wooden pallets due to the fact if there is a fire it only helps fuel it.

This investigation is a complete shambles, the worst cover up going.

The world is never going to get the truth on this.

[loongdavid]

Looks like a nice photo of wooden pallets being used INSIDE a cargo hangar NOT inside an aircraft. Just think about this, wooden pallets are usually constructed of poor quality timber and as such regularly splinter and drop nails everywhere. As has been pointed out they are most definitely combustible and their dimensions are not compatible with the purpose built aluminium cargo bins in regular use. No operator, and that includes UPS, would use wooden pallets INSIDE an aircraft LEGALLY. I'm sure there are operators breaking the rules somewhere in this world but they do so at their peril should the FAA or IATA investigate an incident. Now my information has been gathered over many, many years in the aviation industry and flying thousands of hours in cargo aircraft. I think I have said enough on this subject.

[NanLaew]

Looks like a nice photo of wooden pallets being used INSIDE a cargo hangar NOT inside an aircraft. Just think about this, wooden pallets are usually constructed of poor quality timber and as such regularly splinter and drop nails everywhere. As has been pointed out they are most definitely combustible and their dimensions are not compatible with the purpose built aluminium cargo bins in regular use. No operator, and that includes UPS, would use wooden pallets INSIDE an aircraft LEGALLY. I'm sure there are operators breaking the rules somewhere in this world but they do so at their peril should the FAA or IATA investigate an incident. Now my information has been gathered over many, many years in the aviation industry and flying thousands of hours in cargo aircraft. I think I have said enough on this subject.

I have personally consigned air freight shipments from Houston to among other places, Lima, São Luís, Hull-Humberside, Jebel Ali, Prudhoe Bay, Mumbai, Douala and Karratha. Anything that my freight forwarders pre-assembled on a wooden pallet before sending to IAH was received on the same wooden pallet at the destination. Among freight forwarders I used were Panalpina, Pentagon and BAX Global and the airlines were variously KLM, Air France, FedEx, Qantas, BA, Air Alaska and Continental (now United) plus several others. The pre-palletised (wooden) consignments are carefully dimensioned by the freight forwarder to fit inside the metal skid pallets that contain bulk cargo for loading on the aircraft. Similar to this.

I do agree that there's way too much significance being placed on these pallets being spotted during the search for MH370 as there are many, many more wooden pallets used in the maritime industry than in the air freight industry.

Not relating to your comments but an additional point that has been mentioned frequently in this thread, some of my shipments also included Lithium batteries which were always packaged per DOT regulations (maximum size, type and construction of container and type of filler material) and they either went on cargo-only aircraft or as break-bulk on commercial (passenger carrying) aircraft. If packaged properly, these can be consigned on passenger aircraft if the airline permits. However, even if the airline does permit, the Captain has the final authority NOT to permit them on his charge as he reviews passenger AND cargo manifests before anything gets onboard or in some circumstances, gets it offloaded if it came onboard as part of a through-freight consignment.

[coma]

Some countries have strict quarantine laws that prevent wood entering the country. Wooden pallets would fit the criteria. Concerns that insects that bore into the wood will get out and destroy parts of the local ecosystem.

[NeverSure]

At this point, if I was a betting man, I'd stick with my hunch that the plane is on the ground in a terrorist friendly area and that the authorities know it. When they show the various satellite photos even I can tell it isn't a plane. I think that's all misdirection.

Otherwise I can't explain why they are putting out such lousy information, and lousy it is. Even the armchair pilots here know that.

Somalia has taken major shipping lines' ships and held them for ransom.

Of course I don't know and am probably wrong, but N. Pakistan or Somalia are possibilities. Maybe there are secret negotiations going on and we are being distracted. Maybe the story of an indefinite amount of fruit on the plane is misdirection. Yes, no, yes. Maybe there is something on it far more valuable.

There's just too much BS about possible flight directions and swearing that shipping containers are probably the plane. There's also a lot to be suspicious about regarding the pilots and some passengers. We can't get a straight story out of anyone.

Sure, it may be in the water but I have my doubts.

[Loptr]

At this point, if I was a betting man, I'd stick with my hunch that the plane is on the ground in a terrorist friendly area and that the authorities know it. When they show the various satellite photos even I can tell it isn't a plane. I think that's all misdirection.

Diego Garcia?

[oldsailor35]

What happened to the theory from one ex pilot who says that the MAS flight on returning back across the Andaman was able to turn everything off and slot in behind and above a Singapore Airlines A/C which was en route for Barcelona from Singapore.The time frame was exactly right. The MAS would be invisible from the Singapore A/C as the anti collision only looks forward. However he could maintain contact through his (MAS) forward looking anti collision device. At the same time appearing from time to time as a 'ghost' contact immediately above the Singapore Air flight.Radar operators would ignore this. The MAS flight could fly as far as Khagikstan on their fuel. So could have landed anywhere such as Yemen, or Pakistan and now be on the ground.

[MrWorldwide]

What happened to the theory from one ex pilot who says that the MAS flight on returning back across the Andaman was able to turn everything off and slot in behind and above a Singapore Airlines A/C which was en route for Barcelona from Singapore.The time frame was exactly right. The MAS would be invisible from the Singapore A/C as the anti collision only looks forward. However he could maintain contact through his (MAS) forward looking anti collision device. At the same time appearing from time to time as a 'ghost' contact immediately above the Singapore Air flight.Radar operators would ignore this. The MAS flight could fly as far as Khagikstan on their fuel. So could have landed anywhere such as Yemen, or Pakistan and now be on the ground.

Let me know where Khagikstan is and I'll turn this sucker around - clearly we're wasting our time in the Southern Ocean.

[coma]

Chinese search plane finds objects

That was quick. Maybe they dumped the wreckage out the back of those huge IL76's.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2014/03/24/15/17/chinese-find-debris-in-plane-search

[MrWorldwide]

At this point, if I was a betting man, I'd stick with my hunch that the plane is on the ground in a terrorist friendly area and that the authorities know it. When they show the various satellite photos even I can tell it isn't a plane. I think that's all misdirection.

And I think you know a lot less about aircraft debris than trained analysts across several countries, including the US. Yes - it might be containers, or some other flotsam, but dont you think the people involved might have something beyond the naked eye to analyse those images and calculate the probability of the debris being something from an aircraft ? The US found Bin Laden by focussing on satellite imagery of an unusually tall man walking outside a house in Pakistan - we aren't talking Blinky Bill with a magnifying glass.

[GentlemanJim]

Chinese search plane finds objects

That was quick. Maybe they dumped the wreckage out the back of those huge IL76's.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2014/03/24/15/17/chinese-find-debris-in-plane-search

Maybe the IL76's were full of the wreckage of the aircraft, broken up after it landed with it's 'cargo' somewhere in China! This morning they flew over the ocean and dumped the contents out in the search area after programming the data recorders. Whatever, unless someone gets a grip of this Hollywood are going to have enough material for 4 or 5 movies.

On a serious note, of concern to me after pondering on this, is IF they find the wreckage who is going to conduct the investigation. I would not trust any 'face saving' type nation to conduct any investigation honestly and openly aka Malaysia. The Government have already proven themselves to lack any integrity in this matter. I believe other nations such as Australia, the US or a number of European countries could 'offer' assistance but Malaysia is not under any obligation to accept such assistance. Even if Boeing insist on a presence during the investigation, that does not guarantee transparency as they are a commercial company wanting to sell the 787 to airlines like MAS, and can easily be persuaded to remain silent about any 'story' told providing it does not implicate their product. Any tale of Pilot culpability or suicide would be welcomed by Boeing. Even if they find the wreckage, the frustration concerning this incident is far from over. I pity the victims families.

Edited March 24, 2014 by GentlemanJim

[Thai at Heart]

Looks like a nice photo of wooden pallets being used INSIDE a cargo hangar NOT inside an aircraft. Just think about this, wooden pallets are usually constructed of poor quality timber and as such regularly splinter and drop nails everywhere. As has been pointed out they are most definitely combustible and their dimensions are not compatible with the purpose built aluminium cargo bins in regular use. No operator, and that includes UPS, would use wooden pallets INSIDE an aircraft LEGALLY. I'm sure there are operators breaking the rules somewhere in this world but they do so at their peril should the FAA or IATA investigate an incident. Now my information has been gathered over many, many years in the aviation industry and flying thousands of hours in cargo aircraft. I think I have said enough on this subject.

I have personally consigned air freight shipments from Houston to among other places, Lima, São Luís, Hull-Humberside, Jebel Ali, Prudhoe Bay, Mumbai, Douala and Karratha. Anything that my freight forwarders pre-assembled on a wooden pallet before sending to IAH was received on the same wooden pallet at the destination. Among freight forwarders I used were Panalpina, Pentagon and BAX Global and the airlines were variously KLM, Air France, FedEx, Qantas, BA, Air Alaska and Continental (now United) plus several others. The pre-palletised (wooden) consignments are carefully dimensioned by the freight forwarder to fit inside the metal skid pallets that contain bulk cargo for loading on the aircraft. Similar to this.

netted-freight-pallet.jpg

I do agree that there's way too much significance being placed on these pallets being spotted during the search for MH370 as there are many, many more wooden pallets used in the maritime industry than in the air freight industry.

Not relating to your comments but an additional point that has been mentioned frequently in this thread, some of my shipments also included Lithium batteries which were always packaged per DOT regulations (maximum size, type and construction of container and type of filler material) and they either went on cargo-only aircraft or as break-bulk on commercial (passenger carrying) aircraft. If packaged properly, these can be consigned on passenger aircraft if the airline permits. However, even if the airline does permit, the Captain has the final authority NOT to permit them on his charge as he reviews passenger AND cargo manifests before anything gets onboard or in some circumstances, gets it offloaded if it came onboard as part of a through-freight consignment.

In every illegally dumped bit of rubbish in the world there is an old tyre, a fridge and guest what, a broken shipping pallet.

There are probably as many broken pallets at sea as blue whales. These are hardly rare bits of flotsam and jetsam.

Edited March 24, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[GentlemanJim]

Looks like a nice photo of wooden pallets being used INSIDE a cargo hangar NOT inside an aircraft. Just think about this, wooden pallets are usually constructed of poor quality timber and as such regularly splinter and drop nails everywhere. As has been pointed out they are most definitely combustible and their dimensions are not compatible with the purpose built aluminium cargo bins in regular use. No operator, and that includes UPS, would use wooden pallets INSIDE an aircraft LEGALLY. I'm sure there are operators breaking the rules somewhere in this world but they do so at their peril should the FAA or IATA investigate an incident. Now my information has been gathered over many, many years in the aviation industry and flying thousands of hours in cargo aircraft. I think I have said enough on this subject.

I have personally consigned air freight shipments from Houston to among other places, Lima, São Luís, Hull-Humberside, Jebel Ali, Prudhoe Bay, Mumbai, Douala and Karratha. Anything that my freight forwarders pre-assembled on a wooden pallet before sending to IAH was received on the same wooden pallet at the destination. Among freight forwarders I used were Panalpina, Pentagon and BAX Global and the airlines were variously KLM, Air France, FedEx, Qantas, BA, Air Alaska and Continental (now United) plus several others. The pre-palletised (wooden) consignments are carefully dimensioned by the freight forwarder to fit inside the metal skid pallets that contain bulk cargo for loading on the aircraft. Similar to this.

netted-freight-pallet.jpg

I do agree that there's way too much significance being placed on these pallets being spotted during the search for MH370 as there are many, many more wooden pallets used in the maritime industry than in the air freight industry.

Not relating to your comments but an additional point that has been mentioned frequently in this thread, some of my shipments also included Lithium batteries which were always packaged per DOT regulations (maximum size, type and construction of container and type of filler material) and they either went on cargo-only aircraft or as break-bulk on commercial (passenger carrying) aircraft. If packaged properly, these can be consigned on passenger aircraft if the airline permits. However, even if the airline does permit, the Captain has the final authority NOT to permit them on his charge as he reviews passenger AND cargo manifests before anything gets onboard or in some circumstances, gets it offloaded if it came onboard as part of a through-freight consignment.

In every illegally dumped bit of rubbish in the world there is an old tyre, a fridge and guest what, a broken shipping pallet.

There are probably as many broken pallets at sea as blue whales. These are hardly rare bits of flotsam and jetsam.

I think you have grossly underestimated the situation. I think there will be far MORE broken pallets (by an order of many magnitudes), at sea than blue whales Sad but true.