UK expats soon to be denied free healthcare in the UK

[uptheos]

It's rather funny that I get treatment in UK. And I'm from Sweden. But UK people don't get it if staying abroad.

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Sweden has the same rules. If you have no address left you´ll get kicked out of the wellfare system. and that¨s maybe not so funny....

In UK if you have no address left, there are places that will give you one.....Shelter, Age UK, THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT! etc. You will not be left destitute as long as these organisations are still around and batting for you including CAB. Go to the Dr. and tell him if you can't be treated you're going to end it all. Put it in an email to him, you'll get looked after.

I guess I'm focusing more on those growing older.

I like your posting style - you are a great advert for 'practical' in the fight against theoretical.

I believe that you are right, Britain - unlike, say, Thailand - will ensure that you are taken care of if you are in dire straights.

As one who is growing older I would only want to back if I had a real health emergency. Otherwise I will take my chances in Thailand and would expect to die here.

Terminally ill is an interesting one....... whilst I may think I want to stay here, it may be better to take advantage of the NHS (that I have paid into for 40 years) thus ensuring that any inheritance is not dwindled by Thai hospital bills.

Just thinking aloud.

I know someone who went back who was terminally ill. he was given a morphine on demand appliance and during his last 3 weeks he entered a hospice. It was Catholic, he wasn't but they didn't care. He was kept pain free, clean, people prayed with him, visitors could come anytime. The amount of pain medication was phenomenal and in the last few days he was out of it. Had he stayed here, I wonder how pain free he would have been?

Going back is not for everyone, but it's an option.

[Jip99]

In UK if you have no address left, there are places that will give you one.....Shelter, Age UK, THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT! etc. You will not be left destitute as long as these organisations are still around and batting for you including CAB. Go to the Dr. and tell him if you can't be treated you're going to end it all. Put it in an email to him, you'll get looked after.

I guess I'm focusing more on those growing older.

I like your posting style - you are a great advert for 'practical' in the fight against theoretical.

I believe that you are right, Britain - unlike, say, Thailand - will ensure that you are taken care of if you are in dire straights.

As one who is growing older I would only want to back if I had a real health emergency. Otherwise I will take my chances in Thailand and would expect to die here.

Terminally ill is an interesting one....... whilst I may think I want to stay here, it may be better to take advantage of the NHS (that I have paid into for 40 years) thus ensuring that any inheritance is not dwindled by Thai hospital bills.

Just thinking aloud.

I know someone who went back who was terminally ill. he was given a morphine on demand appliance and during his last 3 weeks he entered a hospice. It was Catholic, he wasn't but they didn't care. He was kept pain free, clean, people prayed with him, visitors could come anytime. The amount of pain medication was phenomenal and in the last few days he was out of it. Had he stayed here, I wonder how pain free he would have been?

Going back is not for everyone, but it's an option.

I had a friend who went back last year for tests and he ended up staying with a terminal illness,

I don't think I would come back here in those circumstances.

[Jonmarleesco]

This has been the subject of discussion for the last year or so, with expats looking likely to benefit, then, more recently, to lose existing benefits. But for those living permanently in the likes of Thailand, there never has - certainly not in recent memory - been NHS cover, other than for a child.

[edwinchester]

Just like other countries you leave your home country for more than 6 months you get nothing England is just moving with the times at last.

Time for you all here to get your heath Insurance before you fall though the cracks

I paid into mine for almost 40 years - it was called the NHS.

Nobody told me as I made each of those 475 payments that I would ineligible for treatment if I chose to live in Thailand.

Exactly. Also, what happened to the announcement not long ago which stated that if you'd contributed 10 years National Insurance payments, you'd be fine?

You will be fine. The story in the OP is over 10 years old. Someone has dredged up an old story and presented it as current.

[Jip99]

What's to stop you just lying, and saying you haven't been away? When I moved around the UK and registered at new doctors, they don't do any kind of background check. Maybe ask for your previous address, but fine, just use a family address. The NHS and borders agency are far too incompetent to ever have a working system that checks for passport activity.

WRONG - last Summer i was booked for a scan at Papworth heart hospital - the form sent to fill in - First question: 'Do you have a UK passport ?' - BRING IT WITH YOU...Second question : 'Have you been outside the UK for 3,6 or 9 months in the past 12 months ?'...get the picture ?

The bright persons answer would be "Yes, but I have now returned to the UK to live".

Not too difficult really.

Note: I would not agree that the Border Agency are incompetent. They have bigger fish to fry and their systems are not intended to act as a policeman for expat travelers.

[rak sa_ngop]

If you arrive back in the UK and state that you intend to remain for the rest of your life (whether that's true or not) you are entitled to free NHS treatment.

I posted this 3 weeks ago but it got moved to the Health forum:

"If you think you will be able to move back to the UK to qualify for immediate free NHS health care think again.

Just been talking to a retired English gentleman. He was born in the UK and served in the British army, although spent post of his working life overseas,

First time I met him in my condo building about 2 years ago. He was selling up his own condo and moving back to the UK for health reasons.

Just met him again in the condo building. Yes he did sell his condo, but he is now back just having bought a different condo in the same building.

Why? Because he was refused immediate NHS health care. He was told he would have to wait 2 years to qualify. His medication was costing 50 GBP a day so it made sense to return to Thailand to live where he could purchase the same medication (Indian generics?) for 2 GBP a day.

I have no other information about his history but possibly he is a few years short of state retirement age (although he doesn't look it).

I thought I remember reading (probably the Daily Mail) that Cameron promised that UK retirees would always qualify for free NHS care. And in this case the gent was not even a health tourist, he had made a commitment to return to live in the UK by selling his overseas property.

I find this very disturbing. Even though I have my own health insurance I still thought the UK NHS was there as a safety-net in case of serious health issues."

So is it a case of every NHS authority interpreting the rules differently? Or maybe the successful 'cases' are those who needed emergency care. Too bad if you just want the regular NHS care that you fought for your country for.

[uptheos]

What's to stop you just lying, and saying you haven't been away? When I moved around the UK and registered at new doctors, they don't do any kind of background check. Maybe ask for your previous address, but fine, just use a family address. The NHS and borders agency are far too incompetent to ever have a working system that checks for passport activity.

WRONG - last Summer i was booked for a scan at Papworth heart hospital - the form sent to fill in - First question: 'Do you have a UK passport ?' - BRING IT WITH YOU...Second question : 'Have you been outside the UK for 3,6 or 9 months in the past 12 months ?'...get the picture ?

The bright persons answer would be "Yes, but I have now returned to the UK to live".

Not too difficult really.

Note: I would not agree that the Border Agency are incompetent. They have bigger fish to fry and their systems are not intended to act as a policeman for expat travelers.

Bingo!

If you go back even for a visit, you can notify dept pensions you are back and get increases. No need to say how long for, just say I'm back and ready to start claiming Pension Credit etc. If you leave again UP2U. They'll re-adjust your pension to what it was before you returned.

Don't be a victim, if you've paid into the system elderly and sick.

Don't be a victim even if you haven't contributed much......birth certificates are worth keeping.

Edited March 11, 2014 by uptheos

[barnsleyman]

I paid into mine for almost 40 years - it was called the NHS.

Nobody told me as I made each of those 475 payments that I would ineligible for treatment if I chose to live in Thailand.

Unfortunately the government will be punishing people like you, people seen by them as an easy touch. This all as a result of their implemented policies, that have allowed p1ss takers and immigrants to drain the the pot dry.

Spot on

I also live in Thailand & married legally to a Thai, but could not take my wife back to the UK to reside,( even if I wanted to ) because now you have to show that you have an annual income of 18,600 pounds minimum.

Which I being an old aged pensioner certainly don't have, & I suspect many other expats here in Thailand haven't either.

[GentlemanJim]

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Just like other countries you leave your home country for more than 6 months you get nothing England is just moving with the times at last.

Time for you all here to get your heath Insurance before you fall though the cracks

I paid into mine for almost 40 years - it was called the NHS.

Nobody told me as I made each of those 475 payments that I would ineligible for treatment if I chose to live in Thailand.

And there is probably a very robust case for litigation against the Government in the UK. The banks had to pay out billions in compensation because they didn't 'tell you things' about mortgages and insurance, and likewise if anyone takes on the Government and sets precedence they will have to pay out billions for changing the 'deal' on your pension or health rights.

[thaibeachlovers]

So if you show your passport and answer all the "quiz" questions correctly then you should be fine.

Depends whether they look at your passport to check for the amount of time spent out of the country.

At least they appear to be allowing heart attacks etc now - previously all treatment was believed to be chargeable.

No point looking at your UK passport if travelling to/ living in another country that doesn't stamp you- they don't stamp it on entry/ exit from Ireland. Would that apply to EU countries?

They'd have to have access to the immigration computer.

So if someone has a UK passport, an address in the UK, and is prepared to lie, how would they know? If prepared to lie, you could just say you don't have a passport.

In my case, I have dual citizenship, so I could use my other passport when entering other countries, so I could have an unstamped UK passport.

Edited March 11, 2014 by thaibeachlovers

[GentlemanJim]

So if you show your passport and answer all the "quiz" questions correctly then you should be fine.

Depends whether they look at your passport to check for the amount of time spent out of the country.

At least they appear to be allowing heart attacks etc now - previously all treatment was believed to be chargeable.

No point looking at your UK passport if travelling to/ living in another country that doesn't stamp you- they don't stamp it on entry/ exit from Ireland. Would that apply to EU countries?

They'd have to have access to the immigration computer.

So if someone has a UK passport, an address in the UK, and is prepared to lie, how would they know? If prepared to lie, you could just say you don't have a passport.

In my case, I have dual citizenship, so I could use my other passport when entering other countries, so I could have an unstamped UK passport.

As you say, just say you can't find your passport. Unless you have officially declared yourself as being a non-resident of the UK for tax purposes then there is not a lot they can do really. You just need an address in the UK - son/daughter/Ex etc etc.

[fiberman]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/expathealth/10303008/Brits-abroad-could-have-rights-to-free-NHS-treatment-restored.html

[uptheos]

Bottom line......don't be freaked by what you read.

If you are a British Citizen you can go home and survive. It may not be what you want but there's a social safety net, especially for elderly or vulnerable. From what I've seen a free one bedroom flat can be much better than a 5k a month hovel some ex pats are holed up in.

Hell, playing whist, bridge with the old girls might even restore some of the grey matter that's been lost drinking Chang every night, speaking pidgin English and playing connect 4 until you're brain dead.

Anyway I'm there for two months, June & July and plan to show my doctor tests I had done in Thailand. All he said last time I did this was; "I bet you paid a lot less for these than if in England" to which I replied, "No in England I get them free on the NHS". He grinned, we understood each other, he knows I paid my 30 years NI and taxes.

I will report back my experience....honestly, no B/S.

Edited March 11, 2014 by uptheos

[captspectre]

Just like other countries you leave your home country for more than 6 months you get nothing England is just moving with the times at last.

Time for you all here to get your heath Insurance before you fall though the cracks

speak for yourself, there is no such law for American citizens. all you blokes better pack your ditty bags and go back to "paradise" if you are sick.

[hawker9000]

Isn't socialized medicine just WONDERFUL?!

For those of us who do indeed come from nations enlightened enough to have universal coverage, and aren't shitscared if the word 'socialism', yes, our systems are pretty bloody wonderful.

Slow learner...

[oxo1947]

"Medicare in OZ remains available to people who have been away less than 5 years.-----samran"

Not unless they re-register in Australia as stated, your card is Void after 13 weeks absence, Mine was voided nearly 2 years ago, also 2 friends who decided to retire here this year had theirs also voided after the 13 week period. Yes you can go back there, yes you can re-register, no matter how many years you have been away, (more then 5 doesn't matter, your still an Oz citizen ) but you must fill in the proper stat dec etc & wait the period to be reissued.

There is one loophole that gets you your card back immediately without doing this, but you must be in Australia to use this.

[thonglorjimmy]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/expathealth/10303008/Brits-abroad-could-have-rights-to-free-NHS-treatment-restored.html

Indeed a good link, but it has already been posted in #31 many hours ago.

[HardenedSoul]

Just like other countries you leave your home country for more than 6 months you get nothing England is just moving with the times at last.

Time for you all here to get your heath Insurance before you fall though the cracks

I paid into mine for almost 40 years - it was called the NHS.

Nobody told me as I made each of those 475 payments that I would ineligible for treatment if I chose to live in Thailand.

Typical UK! If you live in the UK but haven't worked or paid any taxes that's ok you can get free treatment, but if your British, have worked all your life, paid your taxes but choose to spend your pension in a warmer climate you can not get any free NHS treatment!!!

I realise that some people only need a tiny poke to set them off on a rant about Britain, immigration and entitlements but, as I've said before, before running their mouths, <Offensive language removed> ......... British soil at the right time should remember that they suckled at the breast of and flourished under the warm blanket of social care Great Britain has provided for decades in the form of free education, free healthcare and the rule of law.

I'm astonished that they now think they have the right to act as judges over who's entitled to those same privileges now.

I daresay that in the early days of the country's welfare system there would have been a fair few opponents of social care who would've been calling them and their parents scroungers too.

Edited March 11, 2014 by theoldgit
Offensive remarks removed

[salapau]

This has been in force since 2012 - I returned to England in Oct. 2012 to be refused treatment from the NHS as I was one of the honest ones letting them know that I lived in Thailand. Many don't do this and keep a ficticious address in England. Prescribed with a serious illness in 2010 I have treatment and buy medication in Thailand, very expensive. I was able to see a GP in England who had treated me before, but a new prescription had to be paid for, rather than receive it free as over 60. The only way he could refer me to my previous NHS specialist consultant, was by private arrangement and payment. This after 45 years NI contributions. We are disowned in a similar way that we don't receive annual inflation increases to our state pension.

Disgracefull treatment because so much of the English tax and NHI payments are needed to look after the huge number of immigrants.

You may therefore find it difficult to believe that I will return to England soon. Priority is I miss my son and daughter and want to spend the time I have left being close to them, but I will get free NHS treament again and the pension increase. I'm also really fed up with the Thai's selfish attitude and greed to people other than themselves and their immediate families.

[Jay Sata]

Life in paradise is fine until the money runs out. If the UK is so bad why do half the world want to live there?

There is no need to cut your ties and say you'll never go back.

[Suradit69]

The anti immigrant immigrants to Thailand can then complain about all the foreigners wrecking Britain from behind their keyboards in Pattaya.

Virtually no expats here are 'immigrants' we are aliens only here on a temporary basis

And thus the term Non-immigrant type O (or O-A) visa that most of us get to enter the country before settling into a series of extensions of stay (which many of the confused long term expats have yet to realize is not a visa).

But with a slight modification in the terms used by Susteno: "The anti-foreigner foreigners in Thailand can then complain about all the foreigners wrecking Britain ( or Arizona) from behind their keyboards throughout Thailand."

And I might add, they can write pages and pages of posts on Thai Visa about how a shop keeper didn't smile at them today in Pattaya, which proves THEY don;t want US here and that THEY are all racists ... without even a glimmer of understanding of the irony.

[uptheos]

This has been in force since 2012 - I returned to England in Oct. 2012 to be refused treatment from the NHS as I was one of the honest ones letting them know that I lived in Thailand. Many don't do this and keep a ficticious address in England. Prescribed with a serious illness in 2010 I have treatment and buy medication in Thailand, very expensive. I was able to see a GP in England who had treated me before, but a new prescription had to be paid for, rather than receive it free as over 60. The only way he could refer me to my previous NHS specialist consultant, was by private arrangement and payment. This after 45 years NI contributions. We are disowned in a similar way that we don't receive annual inflation increases to our state pension.

Disgracefull treatment because so much of the English tax and NHI payments are needed to look after the huge number of immigrants.

You may therefore find it difficult to believe that I will return to England soon. Priority is I miss my son and daughter and want to spend the time I have left being close to them, but I will get free NHS treament again and the pension increase. I'm also really fed up with the Thai's selfish attitude and greed to people other than themselves and their immediate families.

Nothing at all wrong wanting to be near family in your twilight years.

[uptheos]

This has been in force since 2012 - I returned to England in Oct. 2012 to be refused treatment from the NHS as I was one of the honest ones letting them know that I lived in Thailand. Many don't do this and keep a ficticious address in England. Prescribed with a serious illness in 2010 I have treatment and buy medication in Thailand, very expensive. I was able to see a GP in England who had treated me before, but a new prescription had to be paid for, rather than receive it free as over 60. The only way he could refer me to my previous NHS specialist consultant, was by private arrangement and payment. This after 45 years NI contributions. We are disowned in a similar way that we don't receive annual inflation increases to our state pension.

Disgracefull treatment because so much of the English tax and NHI payments are needed to look after the huge number of immigrants.

You may therefore find it difficult to believe that I will return to England soon. Priority is I miss my son and daughter and want to spend the time I have left being close to them, but I will get free NHS treament again and the pension increase. I'm also really fed up with the Thai's selfish attitude and greed to people other than themselves and their immediate families.

Nothing at all wrong wanting to be near family in your twilight years.

[uptheos]

Another thing that bothers me is the Living Will. I have one drafted here in both languages, completely cross translated for clarity, but there's still no guarantee that the instructions will be followed. Even if your proxy is an MD, they probably will just let you lay there racking up hundreds of thousands of baht a day, until they decide to discharge you in a state of complete incapacity and a couple of million baht lighter.

In the UK a Living Will will be adhered to 100%.

[Estrada]

As i understand it, Australia and Gt Britian have medical recriprocal arrangement, so either nationality can get free treatment. I have never had to pay whilst in England from Australia. Is this about to change ?

I was admitted to I.C.U. in Australia and at first they agreed that they would treat me under the reciprocal agreement but when they checked the UK NHS would not pay as I did not spend enough time in the UK in the previous year.

[Hedghog]

As if you would want to receive NHS hospital treatment.

More germs than a Thai toilet.

[DLP]

So it seems anyone can go to England for frree health care, except expats that have paid into the system.

[Hedghog]

I have had the pleasure of 2 inpatient stays in Thailand,hospitals.

The treatment received was second to none.

[KittenKong]

The UKBA know when you are leaving the country, but not where you are going, same when you return.

No, they know exactly where you are going (on one booked-through ticket) and also where you have come from (on the same basis).

What they dont know is whether where you are booked to is your final destination, or whether where you just flew in from is where you started from.

The question isn't relevant anyway as the rule (if/when applied) will be about whether you are UK resident or not and you dont need to know where people have been to work that out.

[ukrules]

So if you show your passport and answer all the "quiz" questions correctly then you should be fine.

What passport ?