Clampdown coming on multiple tourist visa runs

[kkup]

I've been here for 3 years without returning home on tourist visas.

I am on passport number 2 from so many stamps etc. The only issues I have had is being denied a double entry from Thai immigration in Laos as I already had 3 from the same immigration. I just had to go to a different border crossing and it wasn't an issue. I actually waited in Vientiane for 4 days once while some guys I had befriended outside immigration did a trip with my passport to Savannakhet, they came back with another double entry for me. I also went to Cambodia once to mix it up.

I had an issue recently where I overstayed on a double entry and got denied at the border and was only given 15 days back to Thai.

I think I've had a good run so we are just about to apply for a marriage visa.

[commie Joe]

I do find it remarkable that people that say here on doing visa runs become targets for the self rightous on Thai visa. I stay here on doing visa runs & prob invested more cash into the Thai eco than most of the self rightous . It will be another 4 years before I qualify for a retirement extention , do I have the money yes will I apply for retirement NO why ? Well I don't believe anybody should be showing any money's they have to any government authority world wide. To do this is to expect to be pick pocketed because you can be sure there are people trying to work out a plann to get at your hard earned.

Also because I like doing visa runs,it breaks up the year with nice little Holidays around the world. So to the Im aright jack mob I will say I dont care about your thinkings about me or others . I just find it very sad that after getting to the age you are the only way you feel you are better than others is because you jump through loops & get that cheapie retirement ex, while the visa runners pay alot more on visa's & prob more than you can afford ,

You are all very nice though

[SanukJoeII]

There are a few confusions going on here and a few misunderstandings.

Confusion: visa and permission to stay. The first is obtained through Thai embassies only, the second is obtained by crossing the border, by Thai Immigration.

Visas cannot be controlled by Immigration, being a police department. It is controlled by the Ministry of Internal affairs.

Misunderstandings: If you plan to come here and stay long time you can get a one year visa at the Thai embassy in your home country, you only have to get out of the Kingdom and back every 90 days, so no big deal. Reasons can be retirement (older than 50), study, family.

So it's not so difficult to get the first year of your stay covered legally with the rules that apply.

If you want to stay longer than a year, you can fly out to a non-neighbouring country and apply for a multiple visa again, mostly double-entry tourist visas, valid for 2x 60 days, which can be extended with 2 x 30 days at Immigration. So a total of 180 days, half a year.

If you want more of Thailand, just once fly back to your home country and repeat the same legal way to get a visa.

I think it's very clear that this is the way Thai authorities have no problem with.

What is their problem?

Illegal workers!!! First they take jobs of Thais, they don't pay taxes and they are working illegally. I find it good that these guys are screwed, as they spoil the whole lot for all foreigners who stick to the rules. Native English speakers: get a work permit and a B-visa, no problem, you are the black spot they are looking for. When I apply for retirement extension they always ask and check if I do not work illegally, no matter that I'm not even native English and on top 65 years of age with two very nice pensions. It's the illegal teachers that they are after, and good so.

Of course temporary immigrants consists for a large part also of Laotians, Burmese, Cambodians, Vietnamese. They also have to stick to the rules and work illegally.

So the main message is: illegal workers (and hence no visa but border stamps) get out of here. That's what Immigration means, anyone else staying longer time should be able (as all have enough money so to read) to sometimes get to a non-neighbouring country and get the appropriate visas. The guy from Saudi Arabia wanting 6 weeks with the family: what's the problem? Get a double entry tourist visa and you're covered for at least 120 days....

I think it's the complexity of the rules, or the "kee niao" attitute of long-stayers, that causes some TV members to get upset.

[loongdavid]

Well said cornishcarlos, I couldn't have said it better myself. Your statement trumps everything previously said.

[Alwyn]

as always, i prefer to wait an see if its enforced or forgotten about as most things are

+1

+2

[Fullstop]

Is a "Clampdown" different from a "Crackdown"? I'm confused.

The main aim is to discourage foreigners from staying long-term in Thailand by doing multiple back-to-back tourist visa runs.

If they are spending money ... WHY?

[Wordworx]

I'm not getting this: "The visa runners are taking jobs away from Thai people." Who are you talking about? Burmese laborers doing work the Thai do not want to do? Indonesian hookers stealing those really sweet bar girl jobs from the local gals? (Pretty sure neither are reading ThaiVisa, btw.) Illegal Western English teachers are... what? Stealing jobs from the Thai national English teachers? Maybe I'm missing something, but last I checked the only jobs to be *stolen* from Thais are sh-t-paying jobs the Thais do not want to do.

[phuketrichard]

If you want to stay longer than a year, you can fly out to a non-neighbouring country and apply for a multiple visa again, mostly double-entry tourist visas, valid for 2x 60 days, which can be extended with 2 x 30 days at Immigration. So a total of 180 days, half a year.

If you want more of Thailand, just once fly back to your home country and repeat the same legal way to get a visa.

Permission to stay is granted by immigration IN thailand, you DO NOT get, permission to stay by "the second is obtained by crossing the border"

you forgot, many people DO NOT have to leave the country ever to get a new extenison, nor do i have to leave every 90 days

Those on retirment EXTENSIONS

those on Non B EXTENSIONS

those on marriage EXTENSIONS

those on Type O EXTENSIONS for reasons of having a thai child

Most illegal workers are BURMESE not expats

Edited March 18, 2014 by phuketrichard

[Fullstop]

....i understand they dont want the riff raff here long term but effective policing would see off these types.

Don't hold your breath.

[CRUNCHER]

I agree every country has different visa rules. I do not know of any country where you can just walk in and live full time. You have to go through hoops. How many hoops and how big they will depend on each countries own circumstances.

Except they are making it even harder to get an appropriate visa, as evidenced by the recent clamp down on issuing Non Imm O marriage visas !!!

Every country is definitely not the same...

Of couse when people bend the rules or takes advantage of loop holes you can expect a tightening of the rules. This in turn causes problems for other people. The 30 day visa exempt entry was never intended for full time living in Thailand. If a tourist wants to stay longer than 30 days there are tourist visas. Those who live here on visa runs might not be breaking the letter of the law, but they are breaking the spirit of the law.

The answer is very simple - if you cannot get a visa to live in one country go and live in another. I have often thought of going to Cambodia or Vietnam, but canot because of visa issues. So I stay in Thailand where, at my age, visa is very very easy. Of course single people under 50 will not see it that way ( I sympathise as I was in that position once), but what country can they live in without bending the rules?

?? visa for cambodia $280/year available to everyone, multi entry, no requirements/$$ needed, Cant get much easier than that<<<

A good souce is Lonely Planet website here Of course the Government website does not cover unofficial methods. Then again I would not want unoffficial means; that is the problem in Thailand. http://www.lonelyplanet.com/cambodia/practical-information/visas

Perhaps you could post a link to the visa you describe.

Edited March 18, 2014 by CRUNCHER

[JLCrab]

I do find it remarkable that people that say here on doing visa runs become targets for the self rightous on Thai visa. I stay here on doing visa runs & prob invested more cash into the Thai eco than most of the self rightous . It will be another 4 years before I qualify for a retirement extention , do I have the money yes will I apply for retirement NO why ? Well I don't believe anybody should be showing any money's they have to any government authority world wide. To do this is to expect to be pick pocketed because you can be sure there are people trying to work out a plann to get at your hard earned.

Also because I like doing visa runs,it breaks up the year with nice little Holidays around the world. So to the Im aright jack mob I will say I dont care about your thinkings about me or others . I just find it very sad that after getting to the age you are the only way you feel you are better than others is because you jump through loops & get that cheapie retirement ex, while the visa runners pay alot more on visa's & prob more than you can afford ,

You are all very nice though

Great -- any visa issued at a Thai Embassy or Consulate is just as valid as any other presuming no falsified information is provided. But as per the contention that to provide a statement of income or bank deposit reference for a retirement extension is tantamount to be subject to pick pocketing by the world-wide cabal they maybe most likely don't give a sh-t about you or your money.

[carter1882]

Get married, get some kids, contribute with a decent job, pay some tax and commit. If you really like Thailand then commit and stop whining. Then get a permanent residence, only takes a few years. Tourists....well give them one or two free 30 day entries then charge them for renewal per 30 days, lets say 15,000 a month. Let them renew within the country. For someone who has paid a lot of tax and shown a lot of commitment people just dossing in Thailand or working illegally should pay their way.

[phuketrichard]

the link you posted states what i said and everyone knows it that goes to Cambodia

They don’t call it corruption in Cambodia but ‘under the table’, and you can have your passport back the next day for the inflated prices of US$45 for one month, US$80 for three months, US$165 for six months and US$265 for one year.

When u flyin u ask for an "ordinary" / business visa ( pay $25), no u do not need a business or a wp vs a tourist visa Pay $20

Than go an have it extended at just about any travel agent in Phnom Penh for ever.

Note prices have gone up since.

[thepool]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I do find it remarkable that people that say here on doing visa runs become targets for the self rightous on Thai visa. I stay here on doing visa runs & prob invested more cash into the Thai eco than most of the self rightous . It will be another 4 years before I qualify for a retirement extention , do I have the money yes will I apply for retirement NO why ? Well I don't believe anybody should be showing any money's they have to any government authority world wide. To do this is to expect to be pick pocketed because you can be sure there are people trying to work out a plann to get at your hard earned.

Also because I like doing visa runs,it breaks up the year with nice little Holidays around the world. So to the Im aright jack mob I will say I dont care about your thinkings about me or others . I just find it very sad that after getting to the age you are the only way you feel you are better than others is because you jump through loops & get that cheapie retirement ex, while the visa runners pay alot more on visa's & prob more than you can afford ,

You are all very nice though width=19 alt=whistling.gif> width=19 alt=whistling.gif>

Great -- any visa issued at a Thai Embassy or Consulate is just as valid as any other presuming no falsified information is provided. But as per the contention that to provide a statement of income or bank deposit reference for a retirement extension is tantamount to be subject to pick pocketing by the world-wide cabal they maybe most likely don't give a sh-t about you or your money.

Most likely an American conspiracy theorist attempting to dodge the IRS !

[Bkungbank]

EU parliment yesterday just relax on visa and now it's our turn to tighten visa rules, when farang can wear a slipper into airport and we need to show proff of income when we were there.

[notmyself]

Some of the comments so far did not seem to make sense do I went back and re-read the article and it's all over the place. Seems to mix tourist visas, visa exempt entries and VOAs as to be exactly the same thing.

[thepool]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

EU parliment yesterday just relax on visa and now it's our turn to tighten visa rules, when farang can wear a slipper into airport and we need to show proff of income when we were there.

What exactly is being said / implied

[CRUNCHER]

the link you posted states what i said and everyone knows it that goes to Cambodia

They don’t call it corruption in Cambodia but ‘under the table’, and you can have your passport back the next day for the inflated prices of US$45 for one month, US$80 for three months, US$165 for six months and US$265 for one year.

When u flyin u ask for an "ordinary" / business visa ( pay $25), no u do not need a business or a wp vs a tourist visa Pay $20

Than go an have it extended at just about any travel agent in Phnom Penh for ever.

Note prices have gone up since.

This looks like breaking rather than bending the rules. Worse than visa runs here. Can you provide an official source that says this is legal. I cannot find anything on MFA website about extensions at travel agents.

True, in Thailand travel agents have been known to issue visas - usally with forged stamps.

[commie Joe]

I do find it remarkable that people that say here on doing visa runs become targets for the self rightous on Thai visa. I stay here on doing visa runs & prob invested more cash into the Thai eco than most of the self rightous . It will be another 4 years before I qualify for a retirement extention , do I have the money yes will I apply for retirement NO why ? Well I don't believe anybody should be showing any money's they have to any government authority world wide. To do this is to expect to be pick pocketed because you can be sure there are people trying to work out a plann to get at your hard earned.

Also because I like doing visa runs,it breaks up the year with nice little Holidays around the world. So to the Im aright jack mob I will say I dont care about your thinkings about me or others . I just find it very sad that after getting to the age you are the only way you feel you are better than others is because you jump through loops & get that cheapie retirement ex, while the visa runners pay alot more on visa's & prob more than you can afford ,

You are all very nice though

Great -- any visa issued at a Thai Embassy or Consulate is just as valid as any other presuming no falsified information is provided. But as per the contention that to provide a statement of income or bank deposit reference for a retirement extension is tantamount to be subject to pick pocketing by the world-wide cabal they maybe most likely don't give a sh-t about you or your money.

woooooooooooo, You really think that governments dont want every last penny in your pocket ? Only a very poor man would think that, however even he would be wrong if he thought they dont want his cash. You can keep dreaming though ,nice man that you are

[commie Joe]

the link you posted states what i said and everyone knows it that goes to Cambodia

They don’t call it corruption in Cambodia but ‘under the table’, and you can have your passport back the next day for the inflated prices of US$45 for one month, US$80 for three months, US$165 for six months and US$265 for one year.

When u flyin u ask for an "ordinary" / business visa ( pay $25), no u do not need a business or a wp vs a tourist visa Pay $20

Than go an have it extended at just about any travel agent in Phnom Penh for ever.

Note prices have gone up since.

This looks like breaking rather than bending the rules. Worse than visa runs here. Can you provide an official source that says this is legal. I cannot find anything on MFA website about extensions at travel agents.

True, in Thailand travel agents have been known to issue visas - usally with forged stamps.

If you sit in imigration anywhere in Thailand ,you will notice many agents coming in to the front of the quew with many passports for extentions no need for forged stamps

[rexall]

I do not know of any country where you can just walk in and live full time. You have to go through hoops. How many hoops and how big they will depend on each countries own circumstances . . .

There is this new thing out, maybe you have heard of it? It is called the EU where people can cross borders to live and work with few restrictions.

Sorry for the sarcasm. However, having "open borders" or at least very relaxed borders is not nearly as mad as some people try to make it out to be. It may not always be possible or advisable in every country, but (911 notwithstanding) great numbers of people regard the modern immigrations policy as obsolete, paranoid and xenophobic.

[larsjohnsson]

Q: Where does tourist money come from?

A: Outside Thailand.

Q: Where do tourists spend their money?

A: Inside Thailand.

Q: How does money from other counties spent in Thailand, benefit the Thai economy?

A: Countless way... it would seem.

Q: Why then would you want to discourage tourists from staying as long as they want?

A: Hummmmmm.... let me get back to you on that...

Per Wikipedia: "The World Tourism Organization defines tourists as people 'traveling to and staying in places outside their usual environment for not more than one consecutive year for leisure, business and other purposes"'.

So whether for one year or otherwise a tourist has a finite period of stay else one is no longer considered by the Government of Thailand as a tourist.

Granted that some people use this as a way to live indefinitely in Thailand and technically are not tourists under the definition you cite but - assuming that one is not working in Thailand (which would be illegal) and therefore not taking money from the Thai economy internally, they are still bringing money into Thailand from the outside. So crack down on the long term squatters in other ways if you really want.

I'm still asking what is wrong with welcoming visitors who just want a warm winter? Let them stay for 3 or 4 months without silly, useless AND dangerous visa running every couple weeks. Might be a way to actually attract more visitors.

From my observation, the entire visa system in Thailand is archaic and aims at controlling the wrong things. I can understand that a country wants to know who is in their country and is not a citizen, I can understand that a government wants to control - even tightly control - working by non-citizens but to discourage long term visitors who simply add to an economy, I do not understand.

People that like to stay 3-4 months don't have to do dangerous visa runs every couple of weeks like you write.

Just a simple single tourist visa let you stay 90 days with one visit to immigration. And a double entry visa let you stay 180 days with one visa run

[phuketrichard]

the link you posted states what i said and everyone knows it that goes to Cambodia

They don’t call it corruption in Cambodia but ‘under the table’, and you can have your passport back the next day for the inflated prices of US$45 for one month, US$80 for three months, US$165 for six months and US$265 for one year.

When u flyin u ask for an "ordinary" / business visa ( pay $25), no u do not need a business or a wp vs a tourist visa Pay $20

Than go an have it extended at just about any travel agent in Phnom Penh for ever.

Note prices have gone up since.

This looks like breaking rather than bending the rules. Worse than visa runs here. Can you provide an official source that says this is legal. I cannot find anything on MFA website about extensions at travel agents.

True, in Thailand travel agents have been known to issue visas - usally with forged stamps.

are u just being thick for a reason?? ask anyone that has been to Cambodia,

Look at any Cambodian forum,

heres one travel agent that offers it,

http://www.asiaexplorertravel.com/page.php?id=9

Visa Extension:

The Tourist (T) and Business (E) visas can be extended at the Immigration Department, National Police. The Diplomatic (A), Official ( and Courtesy © visas can be extended at the Consular Department, Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation.

Tourist Visa can be extended once for up to one (1) month (single entry).

Business Visa can be extended for:

* One (1) month (single entry)

* Three (3) months (single entry)

* Six (6) months (multiple entries)

* One (1) year (multiple entries)

Edited March 18, 2014 by phuketrichard

[Benmart]

Kind of odd they would open all the Burmese crossing points and change it back to 15days. These border crossing seem to be purely for border runs. No one is going to waste their time hitting Ban Ron for a 15 day 900bhat(Not including transportation) stamp. They need to start beating the bushes for the 50+ crowd they seem predatory(Just look at all the creepers in most touristed areas) and might as well make them pay more for the privileged of long stay.

LOL. I love the bigotted references to "50+, creepers and predatory". I am 62, hardly a creeper as you put it and may be able to outrun you in a short sprint since I don't smoke or drink like a fish. The comment about "predatory" is interesting and is short on fact and long on assumptions.

Most retired, over 50, O-A Visa holders that I know are stable, sober and law abiding. We may not pay more to be retired here, but we probably certainly spend more and not only at the local bars and brothels.

I used to envy the retired folks here before I turned 62. Now that I am retired, I can sit back and read postings from the discontented, disoriented, dislocated and disconnected. If I can think of any more dis's, I'll post them later.

[JLCrab]

I do find it remarkable that people that say here on doing visa runs become targets for the self rightous on Thai visa. I stay here on doing visa runs & prob invested more cash into the Thai eco than most of the self rightous . It will be another 4 years before I qualify for a retirement extention , do I have the money yes will I apply for retirement NO why ? Well I don't believe anybody should be showing any money's they have to any government authority world wide. To do this is to expect to be pick pocketed because you can be sure there are people trying to work out a plann to get at your hard earned.

Also because I like doing visa runs,it breaks up the year with nice little Holidays around the world. So to the Im aright jack mob I will say I dont care about your thinkings about me or others . I just find it very sad that after getting to the age you are the only way you feel you are better than others is because you jump through loops & get that cheapie retirement ex, while the visa runners pay alot more on visa's & prob more than you can afford ,

You are all very nice though

Great -- any visa issued at a Thai Embassy or Consulate is just as valid as any other presuming no falsified information is provided. But as per the contention that to provide a statement of income or bank deposit reference for a retirement extension is tantamount to be subject to pick pocketing by the world-wide cabal they maybe most likely don't give a sh-t about you or your money.

woooooooooooo, You really think that governments dont want every last penny in your pocket ? Only a very poor man would think that, however even he would be wrong if he thought they dont want his cash. You can keep dreaming though ,nice man that you are

Thank you. I don't keep my money in my pocket.

[Gsxrnz]

The more interesting question is why it is so important to limit the stay of "tourists" in a country that offers absolutely no welfare benefits for these "tourists"?

I asked my boss today what he thought of somehow limiting the spending of the companys customers, perhaps by limiting the amount of consecutive orders the customers can place, or perhaps ensure that inbetween orders to our company, they also place orders with competing companies. I am still waiting for his reply, but hope my idea will finally make him consider that promotion I have waited for so long.

Your boss would simply increase his prices to compensate for reduced custom - simple!

[CRUNCHER]

Of course when y0u lose an argument resort to insults instead of logic.

If I am there (Cambodia) as a retiree I have no documents to prove I am there for business and I am not entitled to a business visa. It is an abuse of the rules.

That is what this thread is about - closing loop holes because of abuse.

Edited March 18, 2014 by CRUNCHER

[hansnl]

Continuing change and confusion. In the north, they recently extended the time to 30 days for land crossings, but limited this to 4 consecutive visa runs....

This latest change, if true and universal, May well cost the country quite a bit of income.

As the average length of stay for the almost 20 million visitors in 2011 was (per TAT) " ... 9.64 days and an average daily spend of 4,187.12 baht (US$137) per person," the financial contribution of those who stay long-term without non-IMM visas and who might be affected by any of the above changes in regulations most likely would not cost the country a great deal of income.

Oh well, I guess you have studied at the same place as the Thai Government.

The average stay of almost 20 million visitors in 2011 and average spending per person per day was 4187 baht.

That average is an average made up of all visitors to Thailand, holidaymakers and visahoppers.

I presume the holiday makers, from the western and Arab countries, spend around € 100 per day per person, and stay for an average of 12 days.

Holidaymakers from certain Asian countries, so beloved by the governmental figures, spend around € 30 a day per person and stay for an average of 6 days

Above numbers is spending in the LOCAL economy.

The Russian community are not included in these numbers.

Number for the visahoppers are not so high, but center around an average stay of 140 days and a spending of € 50 a day.

The expat old geezers network is a different story altogether.

Every expat has to bring into the country an average of 52,000 baht per month, or 624,000 baht per year.

The number of retirement and marriage expats living in Thailand seems to be around 320,000

Which makes the sum for total spending in the local economy around 200,000,000,000 baht, directly.

This is excluding the indirect spending, for buying houses, cars, motorbikes & all

It is quite clear the government should look into these numbers.

The former Governor of Khon Kaen was very much aware of the importance of retirement/marriage expats for the local economy.

And indeed not only for the economic reasons.

[rexall]

Of course when y0u lose an argument resort to insults instead of logic.

If I am there (Cambodia) as a retiree I have no documents to prove I am there for business and I am not entitled to a business visa. It is an abuse of the rules.

That is what this thread is about - closing loop holes because of abuse.

I have a tough time comprehending semantics such as "an abuse of the rules"

What the hell doest that mean, anyway? I can understand no abusing people; not being cruel or injurious to them. But rules are not people, they have no feelings, they are not subject to injury? How can one "abuse" them?

This is one of those turns of rhetoric that has an emotionally satisfying right to it, but examine it more closely, and it is all ring and no meaning.

Now, if the OP had said something to the effect of, "I don't like it when people disobey the visa rules!" That would be more communicative and more honest . . . but lacks the punch of "an abuse of the rules" because it becomes just another opinion.

[thepool]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Of course when y0u lose an argument resort to insults instead of logic.

If I am there (Cambodia) as a retiree I have no documents to prove I am there for business and I am not entitled to a business visa. It is an abuse of the rules.

That is what this thread is about - closing loop holes because of abuse.

I have a tough time comprehending semantics such as "an abuse of the rules"

What the hell doest that mean, anyway? I can understand no abusing people; not being cruel or injurious to them. But rules are not people, they have no feelings, they are not subject to injury? How can one "abuse" them?

This is one of those turns of rhetoric that has an emotionally satisfying right to it, but examine it more closely, and it is all ring and no meaning.

Now, if the OP had said something to the effect of, "I don't like it when people disobey the visa rules!" That would be more communicative and more honest . . . but lacks the punch of "an abuse of the rules" because it becomes just another opinion.

A non-native speaker of English would benefit from reading the simple Wiki definitions of abuse

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abuse