Thai Constitutional Court voids February election

[kuthow]

As I have noted earlier, the problem is that the CC will not consider the alleged 'crimes' that were committed to delay the election. That's the jurisdiction of the Criminal Court. In a rational legal system, the reason for the delay would have a direct bearing on the issue of whether the failure to hold the elections on the same day was constitutional or not. The Court's decision also is irrational because there are numerous reasons why all the constituencies in the country could not hold the election on the same day that are not at all related to criminal activity. In legal jargon it is called a 'force majeure'.

The CC only had to consider one issue - were voters stopped from exercising their Constitutional right to vote - answer YES.

The CC only had to consider one issue - were there suffiicient number of constituencies with candidates

- answer NO.

Fail.

The reason they gave was that elections could not be held in one day meaning this is what they considered. Amazing how some posters don't even understand the basics of law.

The reason the election was nullified was posted on page 1 of 15.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/712694-thai-constitutional-court-voids-february-election/#entry7589815

Amazing how some posters don't even understand the basics of reading.

Still, it doesn't stop them from making 35 posts on this thread.

.

[rjcampbe]

Come on people...

I'm not supporting either side in this because they are both wrong, but in this case the court did the right thing... it was the only thing they COULD do.

Candidates were not allowed to register and people were not allowed to vote. Who among you could argue that the SHOULD have legitimized an election under that situation?

Now, I agree that the people who prevented the candidates from being able to register and the people from being able to vote should be charged with a crime and convicted, but that is another case for another day. Today, the court made the right call.

Why?

Why couldn't they say, those votes count, and the EC is compelled to have to hold an election in those areas that didn't vote, and that the EC has the consitutional obligation to carry it out. The interim government stays as is, until they reach 95%

Then you would have the rather incongruos position of the army or police HAVING to arrest supporters and having to arrest government officials who actively prevent the election. Which of course, they should have done the first time. If the EC doesn't do it, they should be jailed for not carrying out their constitutional requirement.

[rjcampbe]

Thai people.

20mln citisens voted in this election. The court invalidated their political choice. The court is in the pockets of the ruling class

Come on people...

I'm not supporting either side in this because they are both wrong, but in this case the court did the right thing... it was the only thing they COULD do.

Candidates were not allowed to register and people were not allowed to vote. Who among you could argue that the SHOULD have legitimized an election under that situation?

Now, I agree that the people who prevented the candidates from being able to register and the people from being able to vote should be charged with a crime and convicted, but that is another case for another day. Today, the court made the right call.

Why?

Why couldn't they say, those votes count, and the EC is compelled to have to hold an election in those areas that didn't vote, and that the EC has the consitutional obligation to carry it out. The interim government stays as is, until they reach 95%

Then you would have the rather incongruos position of the army or police HAVING to arrest supporters and having to arrest government officials who actively prevent the election. Which of course, they should have done the first time. If the EC doesn't do it, they should be jailed for not carrying out their constitutional requirement.

because holding a make up election in those districts would not have made this election legitimate.

It was illegitimate from the minute the first candidate wasn't allowed to register.

How would you feel if they told you, "Ok, you can vote now" but the person you wanted to vote for wasn't on the ballot because of illegal interference with the election process?

The only legitimate choice the court had was to invalidate this election.

[unanimosity]

ok, there would be the next one, with the same effect - reds will win the majority, democrats will be losing support (that even if they contest an election).

the country is going down the drain, not the government, but courts, agencies running amok, destroying what is left from the reasonable economic, political and social stability

If PT win, then that's fine. However if they rule in the same manner they did last time round, this chaos will just start again. They and others need to start thinking in more consensus political ways.

Oh yes, no blanket amnesties, no avoiding gaol for crimes committed and, for pity's sake, no more rice schemes.

So the murder arrests and trials for Suthep and Abby should proceed in all fairness?

[kuthow]

< yawn >

Can we move on from "amart" and "elite" . . . your boss and his cronies are just as much "elite" as anyone else involved in this . . .

Can one of the paranoid reds or their trolls please advise those of us who want to know, who or what are the Amart/amataya or whatever this Bangkok Elite is, you keep banging on about?. None of those vague Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter conspiracy theories or acronyms. Give us names please. Some of us poor confused non-believers (in conspiracy theories) want to know. Why are you so reluctant to name names? And I am sure that there are many people you are thinking of, other than "they who cannot be named for TVF and other legal reasons", So, let's have the names. Be brave now. I have said please several times.

While you are at it, you can also please define the major differences that upset you so much, between the Bangkok Elites (who-ever they are) and the Chiangmai elites (The Shinawatra clan & their cronies) There! I know who the Chiangmai elites are. There is no secret there.

P.S. If there are no names, then you are just repeating rumours & that is not only stupid, but it can also get you banned from TVF.

Even a private message would be helpful so I can at least see you are not just repeating Chinese Whispers.

Replace the word amart with the word hiso, and you realise how disingenuous your statement is. There are hundreds of books on the amart.

Do you have a concise list of who are the "upper crust" of the UK?

The chiangmai elite, is not elite by Bangkok standards and never will be. Did you know.there was another PM from Chiangmai before Thaksin. He was extremely short lived. Rumor has it that the Shinawatras were intimately connected business wise with that family.

That might go a long way to explaining the lack of respect accorded thaksin in Bangkok and his zeal in trying to eradicate drugs.

Still no names, yet everyone ( except perhaps you) says " We all know who they are." That indicates specific people. They apparently have a different view of who the amart than you. So lets get this right. Just TV presenters, dress designers, celebrity hairdressers & daddy's rich kids are behind it all. Those are the people that everyoine I know refers to as HiSo's. Not quite sure where Thaksin's drug blitz comes into all this but 2,500 or so extrajudicial killings by police and no reduction in the drug traffic points to a different motive behind that shameful episode in Thai history. AND Yes, I was here at the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The verbal acrobats of non-answering obfuscations they go through on the often-raised issue is astounding.

[Thai at Heart]

Thai people.

20mln citisens voted in this election. The court invalidated their political choice. The court is in the pockets of the ruling class

Come on people...

I'm not supporting either side in this because they are both wrong, but in this case the court did the right thing... it was the only thing they COULD do.

Candidates were not allowed to register and people were not allowed to vote. Who among you could argue that the SHOULD have legitimized an election under that situation?

Now, I agree that the people who prevented the candidates from being able to register and the people from being able to vote should be charged with a crime and convicted, but that is another case for another day. Today, the court made the right call.

Why?

Why couldn't they say, those votes count, and the EC is compelled to have to hold an election in those areas that didn't vote, and that the EC has the consitutional obligation to carry it out. The interim government stays as is, until they reach 95%

Then you would have the rather incongruos position of the army or police HAVING to arrest supporters and having to arrest government officials who actively prevent the election. Which of course, they should have done the first time. If the EC doesn't do it, they should be jailed for not carrying out their constitutional requirement.

because holding a make up election in those districts would not have made this election legitimate.

It was illegitimate from the minute the first candidate wasn't allowed to register.

How would you feel if they told you, "Ok, you can vote now" but the person you wanted to vote for wasn't on the ballot because of illegal interference with the election process?

The only legitimate choice the court had was to invalidate this election.

Ok, so count them, announce them. Nullify the election as incomplete, and tell the EC to get on and do it again.

But, if the vote was prevented before, but now it can be carried out, why cant' it. I don't agree that the entire election is void the moment one area has a problem with the election. People are disqualified after the vote all over the place. What happens if all the candidates die the day before the vote? Does that invalidate all the voting nationwide. i don't think so. If they had reached 96% of all the seats, those places where people didn't have a chance to vote would be be given it after the event. There are re-elections multiple times when irregularities are found. It doesn't stop the counting and progress for the rest of the voting and counting in the rest of the country. You could say, that the election is voided the moment someone starts bribing the electorate.

Maybe, the people should have got off their ass and helped the election commission to vote. Their inability to vote on an individual basis is not a reason to prevent an election in rest of the country.

Why void the whole thing. Just hold it partially where the places that it was prevented from happening before. Tell the police and the government officials to do their bloody job on pain of jail, if they do not assist to facilitate the election.

[Jean Pierre Jacquot]

We knew from the first day the Thaksin regime was announcing the election for 02 Feb that these elections will not be successful. Everybody knew it and knew it is a total waste of taxpayers money to organize them. Still they went ahead...

[Thai at Heart]

The verbal acrobats of non-answering obfuscations they go through on the often-raised issue is astounding.

You do know the law in this country about defaming or accusing people of things? I posted a collection of schematics cataloguing the various lists of powerful families and their various connections, directly after this post.

[Thai at Heart]

We knew from the first day the Thaksin regime was announcing the election for 02 Feb that these elections will not be successful. Everybody knew it and knew it is a total waste of taxpayers money to organize them. Still they went ahead...

It is the governments right to hold an election whenever it likes. It is the EC consitutional obligation to insure that the election happens within the law. It is not the government's right to decide to cancel an election. The EC doesn't have the right to just tell the government "sorry, its going to be too difficult", and down tools. I presume the EC should have petitioned the CC for the right to postpone, not ask the government. It is not PTPs faulty the election wasn't carried out completely and legally.

I seem to remember somewhere else maybe in your part of the world someone else cancelled the need for elections and subverted the constitution once. That ended in a world war.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[kuthow]

It was pretty obvious then things were being set up for a court void today. Indeed I just won 15k baht betting on it.

It's pretty obvious you wagered with a clueless dolt.

It was said before the election that there was an insufficient number of constituencies with candidates to make it a valid election.

It was a sucker bet, but, irregardless congratulations on your duly owed winnings.

I wish I had found someone willing to take that bet. I'd have bet more than 15K.

[Spalpeen]

You're wrong and you don't get how state agencies work. If the EC believes the election will be disrupted the correct course of action is to advise the government, which they did. It then becomes the government's responsibility to decide what to do - they ignored the advice and said go ahead. So who is responsible? The government, it was their decision. They are also the people who created the with the amnesty bill in the first place

The EC does not have the authority to order the army about and the police have systematically failed to disperse any large scale protest from either side. They are completely and utterly useless.

It cannot be the sitting governments option to arbitrarily decide not to run an election. That is definitely the fastest road to dictatorship known. The responsiblity should I suppose be for the the EC to petition the courts to issue arrest warrants for people preventing it from carrying out its constitutional responsiblity, and for the authorities to actively confront protestors and anyone preventing or deliberatly preventing the carrying out of an election. No one can simply say they don't want to try to carry out an election because it's hard or dangerous. You are compelled by the law to carry out your constitutional responsibnlities. If you don't, you better have a legal judegement why you didn't do it.

Army's can't disobey orders and civilians can't disobey the constitution. That is pretty simple really.

It should be incumbent on the EC, to commandeer any state assets required to facilitate an election. You cannot cower in the corner and say you won't do it. If they won't carry out the election fire them, and appoint a bunch who will.

.

Nicely put. I wasn't even going to bother explaining it further to him. In a later post (361) he says "they (the government) had the army under their control", which shows he has a very weak grasp on the reality of the situation here.

[focus27]

OK, today is history: what happens next?

The Senate elections are just over a week away. Once done, the Senate can convene whether the House exists or not, although it may require an extraordinary session. Come the 4th of April, they will then have the power to at least select a new Council of Ministers - there remains the sticking point that the PM must be an MP.

So... will (or should or could) the PTP disrupt the Senate elections in the same way as the Suthepistas have done to the House elections?

If the Senate is also unable to be quorate, then the whole system is absolutely screwed.

[Tywais]

One post removed based on this forum rule - You also agree not to post negative comments criticizing the legal proceedings or judgments of any Thai court of law.

[Bluespunk]

ok, there would be the next one, with the same effect - reds will win the majority, democrats will be losing support (that even if they contest an election).

the country is going down the drain, not the government, but courts, agencies running amok, destroying what is left from the reasonable economic, political and social stability

If PT win, then that's fine. However if they rule in the same manner they did last time round, this chaos will just start again. They and others need to start thinking in more consensus political ways.

Oh yes, no blanket amnesties, no avoiding gaol for crimes committed and, for pity's sake, no more rice schemes.

So the murder arrests and trials for Suthep and Abby should proceed in all fairness?

Along with yingluck and other PT members for corruption, criminal incompetence over the rice scheme, those involved in the murder of the PRDC leader outside the polling station, those responsible for attacks and killings during the current protests [on both sides], Tarit for his illegal construction project, UDD leaders for their part in the murder of civilians during their occupation of bangkok in 2010 and other incidents of thuggery, thaksin for the extra judicial murders in his drugs war, his ex for corruption, PAD for their lunacy back in 2006 [was that their year], chalerm's son for murder, and lets face it, so many more of all political shades, sure.

Let the courts judge the guilty and innocent.

Works for me.

How about you?

Edited March 21, 2014 by Bluespunk

[kuthow]

Ok. There will be a new election.

And now that Suthep has shown that he can disrupt an election and prevent Thailand from having an elected legally constituted government, are we going to have a repeat for the next election?

There has to be a new election, That's what the CC ruling means.

Now its up to Suthep and the Democrats to respect that ruling and to allow the election to proceed. The EC has enough advance warning to get itself organized and to do its job. Hopefully, this time, the people who attempt to sabotage the election will be arrested and charged immediately.

The military has to decide what it will do.

End result: I predict another PTP election victory and the rout of the Democrat party.

That depends if the real reason the election was nullified is rectified. Otherwise, the next election will be nullified also.

The court reasoned that the election violated Article 108 (2) of the Constitution because no candidates stood in 28 constituencies in eight southern provinces, and thus making it impossible to hold the election on the same day nationwide.

Some people like the not independent courts and the coup written 2007 constitution that reshaped the courts and the bureaucracy while leaving the military to itself as is the custom and flawed law of Thailand. Some people like the 2007 coup written extra-constitutional constitution that included a pardon of the coup makers and of the coup ruling council and its operatives.

Minus all the repetitiously boring cries above and for the benefit of any others that are unaware, the reason the election was nullified as written in the 2007 Constitution is a verbatim, word-for-word carry over from the much vaunted 1997 People's Constitution.

[Spalpeen]

Would be interesting to know what grounds for voiding the elections.

.

Contempt for the democratic wishes of the Thai people.

20mln citisens voted in this election. The court invalidated their political choice. The court is in the pockets of the ruling class

Come on people...

I'm not supporting either side in this because they are both wrong, but in this case the court did the right thing... it was the only thing they COULD do.

Candidates were not allowed to register and people were not allowed to vote. Who among you could argue that they SHOULD have legitimized an election under that situation?

Now, I agree that the people who prevented the candidates from being able to register and the people from being able to vote should be charged with a crime and convicted, but that is another case for another day. Today, the court made the right call.

.

"Who among you would argue........". Well, I would. At 66 million people Thailand has the 20th largest population in the world. Larger than the UK, France or Italy. Those 66m people are entitled to have a working government and that single fact is far more important than any dicking around by nine judges. If just two judges had changed sides the election would have been approved. I put the welfare of 66m people far, far higher than the prejudices of two judges.

[Publicus]

It would appear that there can never be another election in Thailand. All an obstructive party need do is prevent a few candidates from registering or prevent voting at a few polling stations and by this precedent the election is automatically void.

Yes, and as the Constitution Court very well knows.

[Thai at Heart]

It would appear that there can never be another election in Thailand. All an obstructive party need do is prevent a few candidates from registering or prevent voting at a few polling stations and by this precedent the election is automatically void.

Yes, and as the Constitution Court very well knows.

Exactly. Anyone can simply void an election on a whim.

But we all know that courts, and a lot of very important people really don't like this election malarky if if doesn't give them the type of government they want. So, yes, there it is. Elections can officially now be subeverted by preventing a small percentage of areas from voting.

In a way, if an area doesn't vote, maybe the next question might be to ask them if they would like to leave and become independent on their own. Oh, poop. That would be unconsitutional

[JAG]

What a circus! The ultimate aim is for Thailand to have a democracy Thai style which is one that the amataya or Bangkok/Army Elite are comfortable with.....

< yawn >

Can we move on from "amart" and "elite" . . . your boss and his cronies are just as much "elite" as anyone else involved in this . . .

Can one of the paranoid reds or their trolls please advise those of us who want to know, who or what are the Amart/amataya or whatever this Bangkok Elite is, you keep banging on about?. None of those vague Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter conspiracy theories or acronyms. Give us names please. Some of us poor confused non-believers (in conspiracy theories) want to know. Why are you so reluctant to name names? And I am sure that there are many people you are thinking of, other than "they who cannot be named for TVF and other legal reasons", So, let's have the names. Be brave now. I have said please several times.

While you are at it, you can also please define the major differences that upset you so much, between the Bangkok Elites (who-ever they are) and the Chiangmai elites (The Shinawatra clan & their cronies) There! I know who the Chiangmai elites are. There is no secret there.

P.S. If there are no names, then you are just repeating rumours & that is not only stupid, but it can also get you banned from TVF.

Even a private message would be helpful so I can at least see you are not just repeating Chinese Whispers.

Replace the word amart with the word hiso, and you realise how disingenuous your statement is. There are hundreds of books on the amart.

Do you have a concise list of who are the "upper crust" of the UK?

The chiangmai elite, is not elite by Bangkok standards and never will be. Did you know.there was another PM from Chiangmai before Thaksin. He was extremely short lived. Rumor has it that the Shinawatras were intimately connected business wise with that family.

That might go a long way to explaining the lack of respect accorded thaksin in Bangkok and his zeal in trying to eradicate drugs.

Still no names, yet everyone ( except perhaps you) says " We all know who they are." That indicates specific people. They apparently have a different view of who the amart than you. So lets get this right. Just TV presenters, dress designers, celebrity hairdressers & daddy's rich kids are behind it all. Those are the people that everyoine I know refers to as HiSo's. Not quite sure where Thaksin's drug blitz comes into all this but 2,500 or so extrajudicial killings by police and no reduction in the drug traffic points to a different motive behind that shameful episode in Thai history. AND Yes, I was here at the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I suspect that you know full well that "naming names" of those deep down behind the PDRC will lead to the post being taken down and the poster suspended.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited March 21, 2014 by JAG

[kuthow]

ok, there would be the next one, with the same effect - reds will win the majority, democrats will be losing support (that even if they contest an election).

the country is going down the drain, not the government, but courts, agencies running amok, destroying what is left from the reasonable economic, political and social stability

If PT win, then that's fine. However if they rule in the same manner they did last time round, this chaos will just start again. They and others need to start thinking in more consensus political ways.

Oh yes, no blanket amnesties, no avoiding gaol for crimes committed and, for pity's sake, no more rice schemes.

So the murder arrests and trials for Suthep and Abby should proceed in all fairness?

Indeed they should, in chronological order from the first day the amnesty period covered in 2004.

[focus27]

It would appear that there can never be another election in Thailand. All an obstructive party need do is prevent a few candidates from registering or prevent voting at a few polling stations and by this precedent the election is automatically void.

Yes, and as the Constitution Court very well knows.

Even worse, the EC refused to count any proportional votes until 100% of them were in. The mathematics of electoral systems is pretty advanced and it is certainly possible to extract meaningful results from partial elections.

Indeed, were all votes counted from the Feb 2 election it is entirely likely that the PTP would have had a working voting majority within the House. That 95% rule will need to be removed or amended if this country is ever to have a functioning democracy. Of course, they don't have to be a democracy!

[Thai at Heart]

It would appear that there can never be another election in Thailand. All an obstructive party need do is prevent a few candidates from registering or prevent voting at a few polling stations and by this precedent the election is automatically void.

Yes, and as the Constitution Court very well knows.

Even worse, the EC refused to count any proportional votes until 100% of them were in. The mathematics of electoral systems is pretty advanced and it is certainly possible to extract meaningful results from partial elections.

Indeed, were all votes counted from the Feb 2 election it is entirely likely that the PTP would have had a working voting majority within the House. That 95% rule will need to be removed or amended if this country is ever to have a functioning democracy. Of course, they don't have to be a democracy!

Indeed, it is astonishing to reject the result without counting it. In a legal sense, how does the EC know that voting didn't actually occur? They have taken someone's word for it? They read it in the paper?

In fact, it might appear, that all you have to do to nullify the vote is to tell the EC, we didn't vote. How could anyone prove otherwise?

[kuthow]

The verbal acrobats of non-answering obfuscations they go through on the often-raised issue is astounding.

You do know the law in this country about defaming or accusing people of things? I posted a collection of schematics cataloguing the various lists of powerful families and their various connections, directly after this post.

The term amart, in and of itself, is defamatory or accusatory?

Please...the gymnastics are getting out of hand.

If the word itself is so powerful and volatile, then perhaps the word should never be posted, yet that's not what we see. It see it over and over and over.

So that's all ok, but, somehow, to simply identify who it is we are discussing over and over and over... Oh No! We mustn't. That's forbidden.

As said, the obfuscation is astounding.

[Publicus]

It would appear that there can never be another election in Thailand. All an obstructive party need do is prevent a few candidates from registering or prevent voting at a few polling stations and by this precedent the election is automatically void.

Yes, and as the Constitution Court very well knows.

Exactly. Anyone can simply void an election on a whim.

But we all know that courts, and a lot of very important people really don't like this election malarky if if doesn't give them the type of government they want. So, yes, there it is. Elections can officially now be subeverted by preventing a small percentage of areas from voting.

In a way, if an area doesn't vote, maybe the next question might be to ask them if they would like to leave and become independent on their own. Oh, poop. That would be unconstitutional

When in the course of human events.......

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html

[focus27]

It would appear that there can never be another election in Thailand. All an obstructive party need do is prevent a few candidates from registering or prevent voting at a few polling stations and by this precedent the election is automatically void.

Yes, and as the Constitution Court very well knows.

Exactly. Anyone can simply void an election on a whim.

But we all know that courts, and a lot of very important people really don't like this election malarky if if doesn't give them the type of government they want. So, yes, there it is. Elections can officially now be subeverted by preventing a small percentage of areas from voting.

In a way, if an area doesn't vote, maybe the next question might be to ask them if they would like to leave and become independent on their own. Oh, poop. That would be unconsitutional

I don't think there are many constitutions that allow regions of the hallowed nation-state to secede.

Apart from the obvious case of Crimea jumping ship from Ukraine to Russia, another vote has been making headlines: Venice is voting on whether to leave Italy. It is not an official or binding vote but a useful plebiscite to see if the movement has wings. I just had a look and the media has been quiet because the vote ends tonight, 21 March Italian time. Italy is itself a patchwork of semi-autonomous, semi-criminal provinces that each have a longer, and probably more glorious, history than Italy itself.

There is nothing sacred about the current batch of nation-states.

[philw]

ok, there would be the next one, with the same effect - reds will win the majority, democrats will be losing support (that even if they contest an election).

the country is going down the drain, not the government, but courts, agencies running amok, destroying what is left from the reasonable economic, political and social stability

If PT win, then that's fine. However if they rule in the same manner they did last time round, this chaos will just start again. They and others need to start thinking in more consensus political ways.

Oh yes, no blanket amnesties, no avoiding gaol for crimes committed and, for pity's sake, no more rice schemes.

So the murder arrests and trials for Suthep and Abby should proceed in all fairness?

Along with yingluck and other PT members for corruption, criminal incompetence over the rice scheme, those involved in the murder of the PRDC leader outside the polling station, those responsible for attacks and killings during the current protests [on both sides], Tarit for his illegal construction project, UDD leaders for their part in the murder of civilians during their occupation of bangkok in 2010 and other incidents of thuggery, thaksin for the extra judicial murders in his drugs war, his ex for corruption, PAD for their lunacy back in 2006 [was that their year], chalerm's son for murder, and lets face it, so many more of all political shades, sure.

Let the courts judge the guilty and innocent.

Works for me.

How about you?

Don't be silly, it's a bit more serious than your stereotyping.

1: Who appoints the judges ?

2: Where are their interests ?

3: Who instructs them ??

4: There are now 20,000,000 pissed off voters, many of whom think their vote and opinions have needlessly been nullified.

It should not be a surprise if some of them are a bit "hostile" to this ruling.

5: Expect a lot more violence.

6: It seems many on here think it's quite acceptable for Suthep to derail an election, but I wonder what you would say if Thida or

Jataporn were to do the same ??? ( endless frothing no doubt.)

7: it doesn't work for me, far too simplistic.

8: The precedent set, which you, and others here, seem to approve is that any loonie closing, by force and intimidation, a polling

station or two, during a legal and constitutional election, is a truly insane precedent.

9: It is now way, way beyond Thaksin.

[Thai at Heart]

The verbal acrobats of non-answering obfuscations they go through on the often-raised issue is astounding.

You do know the law in this country about defaming or accusing people of things? I posted a collection of schematics cataloguing the various lists of powerful families and their various connections, directly after this post.

The term amart, in and of itself, is defamatory or accusatory?

Please...the gymnastics are getting out of hand.

If the word itself is so powerful and volatile, then perhaps the word should never be posted, yet that's not what we see. It see it over and over and over.

So that's all ok, but, somehow, to simply identify who it is we are discussing over and over and over... Oh No! We mustn't. That's forbidden.

As said, the obfuscation is astounding.

Add in a whole bunch of diplomatic families, ones that sit on connected boards and the such, and that is a good start. Just because people don't really want to talk about something, doesn't mean it isn't there or isn't true. If you don't think there is super-political class in Thailand who can approve or disapprove of the way things are done, you are extremely naive. Just go off and see the disdain some rather well known people accorded Thaksin in their time.

[Thai at Heart]

It would appear that there can never be another election in Thailand. All an obstructive party need do is prevent a few candidates from registering or prevent voting at a few polling stations and by this precedent the election is automatically void.

Yes, and as the Constitution Court very well knows.

Exactly. Anyone can simply void an election on a whim.

But we all know that courts, and a lot of very important people really don't like this election malarky if if doesn't give them the type of government they want. So, yes, there it is. Elections can officially now be subeverted by preventing a small percentage of areas from voting.

In a way, if an area doesn't vote, maybe the next question might be to ask them if they would like to leave and become independent on their own. Oh, poop. That would be unconsitutional

I don't think there are many constitutions that allow regions of the hallowed nation-state to secede.

Apart from the obvious case of Crimea jumping ship from Ukraine to Russia, another vote has been making headlines: Venice is voting on whether to leave Italy. It is not an official or binding vote but a useful plebiscite to see if the movement has wings. I just had a look and the media has been quiet because the vote ends tonight, 21 March Italian time. Italy is itself a patchwork of semi-autonomous, semi-criminal provinces that each have a longer, and probably more glorious, history than Italy itself.

There is nothing sacred about the current batch of nation-states.

Well, if a place or part of a country continues to not participate in voting, I suggest that their opinions should in the fullness of time be ignored, or they can leave. It is either a democracy or not, and the minority doesn't have the right to dictate to the majority. SImple,.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[focus27]

The verbal acrobats of non-answering obfuscations they go through on the often-raised issue is astounding.

You do know the law in this country about defaming or accusing people of things? I posted a collection of schematics cataloguing the various lists of powerful families and their various connections, directly after this post.

The term amart, in and of itself, is defamatory or accusatory?

Please...the gymnastics are getting out of hand.

If the word itself is so powerful and volatile, then perhaps the word should never be posted, yet that's not what we see. It see it over and over and over.

So that's all ok, but, somehow, to simply identify who it is we are discussing over and over and over... Oh No! We mustn't. That's forbidden.

As said, the obfuscation is astounding.

Add in a whole bunch of diplomatic families, ones that sit on connected boards and the such, and that is a good start. Just because people don't really want to talk about something, doesn't mean it isn't there or isn't true. If you don't think there is super-political class in Thailand who can approve or disapprove of the way things are done, you are extremely naive. Just go off and see the disdain some rather well known people accorded Thaksin in their time.

I appreciated you posting these before, however, they are illegible. Do you have a link to them or a pdf? Thanks

[Bluespunk]

If PT win, then that's fine. However if they rule in the same manner they did last time round, this chaos will just start again. They and others need to start thinking in more consensus political ways.

Oh yes, no blanket amnesties, no avoiding gaol for crimes committed and, for pity's sake, no more rice schemes.

So the murder arrests and trials for Suthep and Abby should proceed in all fairness?

Along with yingluck and other PT members for corruption, criminal incompetence over the rice scheme, those involved in the murder of the PRDC leader outside the polling station, those responsible for attacks and killings during the current protests [on both sides], Tarit for his illegal construction project, UDD leaders for their part in the murder of civilians during their occupation of bangkok in 2010 and other incidents of thuggery, thaksin for the extra judicial murders in his drugs war, his ex for corruption, PAD for their lunacy back in 2006 [was that their year], chalerm's son for murder, and lets face it, so many more of all political shades, sure.

Let the courts judge the guilty and innocent.

Works for me.

How about you?

Don't be silly, it's a bit more serious than your stereotyping.

1: Who appoints the judges ?

2: Where are their interests ?

3: Who instructs them ??

4: There are now 20,000,000 pissed off voters, many of whom think their vote and opinions have needlessly been nullified.

It should not be a surprise if some of them are a bit "hostile" to this ruling.

5: Expect a lot more violence.

6: It seems many on here think it's quite acceptable for Suthep to derail an election, but I wonder what you would say if Thida or

Jataporn were to do the same ??? ( endless frothing no doubt.)

7: it doesn't work for me, far too simplistic.

8: The precedent set, which you, and others here, seem to approve is that any loonie closing, by force and intimidation, a polling

station or two, during a legal and constitutional election, is a truly insane precedent.

9: It is now way, way beyond Thaksin.

I'll take the judges over UDD any day.

However it is point 8 i would like you to back up with evidence please. I never supported the blocking of polling stations. I have always supported elections. I have from day 1 called suthep and his plans for a fascist council wrong.

As for being silly, physician heal thyself if you truly believe point 9.