Reform needed to stop nepotism, political meddling in bureaucracy, Thai forum hears

[webfact]

Reform needed to stop nepotism, political meddling in bureaucracy, forum hears
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The bureaucracy needs to be reformed with a system to prevent nepotism and interference by politicians, a seminar held by the People's Democrat Reform Committee (PDRC) was told yesterday.

The sixth seminar on reform in Thailand, titled "Bureaucratic Reform", was held in Bangkok's Lumpini Park yesterday morning.

Panellists included former senior permanent officials who proposed labour unions, raising pay and decentralisation as moves to reform the bureaucracy.

PDRC secretary-general Suthep Thaugsuban started the seminar by saying politicians in power had weakened the bureaucratic system by interfering in appointments, allowing nepotism to replace a merit system in the promotion of senior officials. The bureaucratic system was weakened because capable officials without connections quit, he said.

Sima Simanon, a former secretary-general of the Civil Service Commission, said reform would have to focus on human-resource development and distancing ties between politicians in power and the promotion of permanent officials.

Sima said good government officials should be shielded from interference by politicians so that they could stay and work for the country.

Sima also said the pay for top officials should be increased to prevent a "brain drain".

He proposed decentralisation of certain government agencies, saying only main agencies such as those dealing with security and foreign affairs should stay with the central government.

Phanchai Watanachai, a former permanent secretary for the Prime Minister's Office, said the central bureaucratic agencies should be resized and regional officials should report to local administrations so that state salary costs could be reduced.

Phanchai said the public should have a say in monitoring and balancing the policies and work of government agencies.

Asada Jayanama agreed with other panellists that the Thai bureaucracy was plagued with problems because of political interference.

Asada said permanent officials allowed themselves to become slaves of politicians in power because of patronage ties between permanent officials and politicians. He said all ministries should have labour unions, which should have a say in appointing senior officials at their ministries.

Asada said the selections of permanent officials should be transparent as well.

Pinyo Thongchai, former secretary-general of the National Anti-Corruption Commission, said he supported the setting up of unions for permanent officials.

He said politicians' role in appointing senior officials should be reviewed and the monitoring system should be transparent.

Dr Chuchai Supawong, a former secretary of the National Human Rights Commission, said the promotion system weakened the bureaucratic system and caused permanent officials to lose honour.

He said officials who would like to become permanent secretaries and directors-general had to travel to meet someone abroad to get the promotions.


-- The Nation 2014-03-22

[HonestQuietBob]

PDRC reform meetings and seminars are no more than one eyed ignorant fools talking to other one eyed ignorant fools.

None of the speakers or audience can get themselves elected to anythnything so every time one of them has got something to stay the little village of outcasts at Lumpinin gains another idiot.

"Asada Jayanama agreed with other panellists that the Thai bureaucracy was plagued with problems because of political interference".

The elected representatives of the people are in charge of government departments - not the bureaucrats.

Know your place and stop trying to bypass democracy!

Edited March 22, 2014 by HonestQuietBob

[focus27]

drip... drip... drip... the daily drip of PDRC propaganda... drip... drip... as The Nation tries to promote its friends... drip... drip... only problem is... that nothing interesting is ever reported... drip... nothing is ever analyzed in full... drip... nothing but a constant wish list... drip... nothing but the wish not to lose again... dry.

[Phuket Stan]

PDRC reform meetings and seminars are no more than one eyed ignorant fools talking to other one eyed ignorant fools.

None of the speakers or audience can get themselves elected to anythnything so every time one of them has got something to stay the little village of outcasts at Lumpinin gains another idiot.

"Asada Jayanama agreed with other panellists that the Thai bureaucracy was plagued with problems because of political interference".

The elected representatives of the people are in charge of government departments - not the bureaucrats.

Know your place and stop trying to bypass democracy!

Now don't you be running away....you are such humour

What union did you represent and how high was your soap box

[Thait Spot]

This is exactly the problem. Jobs for friends and family with no qualifications and experience over those with both.

The forum is 100% correct

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[millwall_fan]

Any claim The Nation had to being a serious disseminator of news has long since been subsumed into its role as the mouthpiece of the PDRC - or whatever set of initials the Ruling Elite are currently hiding behind in their attempt to overthrown democracy.

The need to reform the bureaucracy by ridding it of 'nepotism and political interference' was just as relevant when Mr. Suthep was deputy PM, less than three years ago. Why did he and his cronies not make those reforms then? Perchance because the beneficiaries of the nepotism were from the backers of Suthep?

[Fryslan boppe]

"The bureaucracy needs to be reformed with a system to prevent nepotism and interference by politicians, a seminar held by the People's Democrat Reform Committee (PDRC) was told yesterday"

Wow, talk about a 'thick faced media". Not even trying to obscure their anti-democracy support of Suthep and his handlers.

Aggrandizing coup-monger speeches on the coup-monger stage as somehow being a "Seminar" and a 'forum'

Unbelievable.

That said, the annoying mantra of unelectable anti-Democrats thinking they can evolve and ram holier-than-thou reform notions down the throats of the electoral majority outside Parliament, is ridiculous.

As if coup-mongers seeking to steal the voting choices of those who chose this Govt., have any credibility when it comes to espousing self-serving ideas about issues of governance, outside their own 'illusions of grandeur'.

Laughable actually, how they and their supportive media insult one's intelligence...Just goes to show the shallowness of their own.

That said, it is interesting to note the constituency dichotomy reflected in these pronouncements from the coup-monger stage....The Bureaucracy is generally considered to be infused with Amart thinking, and are the darlings of the Elitists...On the other hand, Politicians are demonized, as one would expect, by those Amart unelectables....So in this case, they are trying to "visit the sins of their corrupt bureaucracy" onto the Political class.....A thorough, independent study of Govt. corruption, would show how it is predominantly rooted in the bureaucracy, while recognizing that Politicians are not angelic either....But to heap all sources of corruption on one pile as the Amart seeks to do, is political agenda, pure and simple.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Fryslan boppe

[smutcakes]

Nepotism and interference ets goes back since the beginning of times, not just in Thailand, but many places.

Quite ironic when they say this when you could look throughout all parties in Thailand and there are many family linkages.

I am all for people getting places on merit, but it is natural for a parent to want to give their children/relations a leg up in life, and in Thailand it is even easier given the lack of opportunity for dissent when it happens or the fact people can relate to it and they would do the same themselves.

Just look at all the old political dynasties throughout Thailand.

[noitom]

The Nation rag again masquerading as a professional newspaper. Picking up sound bites here and there at a nonsensical Thai seminar.

[ChrisY1]

This is exactly the problem. Jobs for friends and family with no qualifications and experience over those with both.

The forum is 100% correct

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Yes...they are correct...but the forum members most likely all practice what they are complaining about....jobs for family and friends (qualified or otherwise) will always prevail over genuine candidates....that's all part of the patronage way of living here.

Edited March 22, 2014 by ChrisY1

[Robby nz]

I see the reds have come out in force to dump on these reform meetings.

It would seem that those attending the meetings and commenting are well qualified to do so having all been in senior positions and seen what the problems are and have good ideas on what needs to be done.

Perhaps the reds posting on here would like to report on and make comment on the PT and red group reform meetings and tell us just what reforms they propose to improve the country.

Oh hang on, I did read about the reforms Jutaporn and Ko Tee proposed, they all had to do with making war on the country and dividing it didn't they.

[ramrod711]

PDRC secretary-general Suthep Thaugsuban started the seminar by saying politicians in power had weakened the bureaucratic system by interfering in appointments, allowing nepotism to replace a merit system in the promotion of senior officials. The bureaucratic system was weakened because capable officials without connections quit, he said.

I hope Suthep was including himself in these charges. While I admire his courage during the last 4-5 months, I have never liked him, and don't trust him to set the agenda for reforms. He seems to have created a climate for change, which is badly needed, and I applaud him for that. As far as his motives for the stand he has taken, or his suitability to lead the forums, I think Thailand can do better.

[Pib]

The bureaucracy needs to be reformed with a system to prevent...interference by politicians

Impossible...goes against the laws of the universe...such a system does not exist in any country.

[Artisi]

I see the reds have come out in force to dump on these reform meetings.

It would seem that those attending the meetings and commenting are well qualified to do so having all been in senior positions and seen what the problems are and have good ideas on what needs to be done.

Perhaps the reds posting on here would like to report on and make comment on the PT and red group reform meetings and tell us just what reforms they propose to improve the country.

Oh hang on, I did read about the reforms Jutaporn and Ko Tee proposed, they all had to do with making war on the country and dividing it didn't they.

[Artisi]

The red boiler room typing pool are certainly out in force on this one and as usual nothing constructive to say or add, just the usual negative comments.

[Fat Haggis]

This is exactly the problem. Jobs for friends and family with no qualifications and experience over those with both.

The forum is 100% correct

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

And who exactly gets to chose the peoples council and how will it be done? through votes?? surely not? Nepotism is alright as long as we're doing it eh??

[HonestQuietBob]

PDRC reform meetings and seminars are no more than one eyed ignorant fools talking to other one eyed ignorant fools.

None of the speakers or audience can get themselves elected to anythnything so every time one of them has got something to stay the little village of outcasts at Lumpinin gains another idiot.

"Asada Jayanama agreed with other panellists that the Thai bureaucracy was plagued with problems because of political interference".

The elected representatives of the people are in charge of government departments - not the bureaucrats.

Know your place and stop trying to bypass democracy!

Now don't you be running away....you are such humour

What union did you represent and how high was your soap box

Sorry,

I'm white colour mate.

Big salary and corner office.

[HonestQuietBob]

I see the reds have come out in force to dump on these reform meetings.

It would seem that those attending the meetings and commenting are well qualified to do so having all been in senior positions and seen what the problems are and have good ideas on what needs to be done.

Perhaps the reds posting on here would like to report on and make comment on the PT and red group reform meetings and tell us just what reforms they propose to improve the country.

Oh hang on, I did read about the reforms Jutaporn and Ko Tee proposed, they all had to do with making war on the country and dividing it didn't they.

Those attending the meetings are a bunch of unemployed <deleted> who can't get another appointed job until the Democrats are back in office.

The Reds want to hold reform meetings that are fully representative of the people from all classes and all walks of life.

All the PDRC are doing is collecting the views of a teeny tiny minority of Thais who think they were born to rule and are hated by the masses.

Nothing proposed by these clowns will pass a vote by the citizens of the nation - waste of time for all but those involved and the political reporter from The Nation.

[ginjag]

PDRC reform meetings and seminars are no more than one eyed ignorant fools talking to other one eyed ignorant fools.

None of the speakers or audience can get themselves elected to anythnything so every time one of them has got something to stay the little village of outcasts at Lumpinin gains another idiot.

"Asada Jayanama agreed with other panellists that the Thai bureaucracy was plagued with problems because of political interference".

The elected representatives of the people are in charge of government departments - not the bureaucrats.

Know your place and stop trying to bypass democracy!

Now don't you be running away....you are such humour

What union did you represent and how high was your soap box

Sorry,

I'm white colour mate.

Big salary and corner office.

Who asked you if you were ethnic ???

White collar fits the office description, Who cares if you have a penthouse office/large salary. You fit the said government-big salary-corner office- but you don't have all your chairs in one room.

[Thait Spot]

This is exactly the problem. Jobs for friends and family with no qualifications and experience over those with both.

The forum is 100% correct

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

And who exactly gets to chose the peoples council and how will it be done? through votes?? surely not? Nepotism is alright as long as we're doing it eh??

Only someone with the intellect of a boiled haggis could assume that by despising nepotism and corruption and wanting reform that I somehow support the appointment of a "people's council"

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Fat Haggis]

This is exactly the problem. Jobs for friends and family with no qualifications and experience over those with both.

The forum is 100% correct

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

And who exactly gets to chose the peoples council and how will it be done? through votes?? surely not? Nepotism is alright as long as we're doing it eh??

Only someone with the intellect of a boiled haggis could assume that by despising nepotism and corruption and wanting reform that I somehow support the appointment of a "people's council"

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

And yet you failed to answer the opening question, so are you just going to attempt to insult my intellect, or answer it??

Did I say YOU supported it? you make the assumption, but if the cap fits I guess ..

You assumed an awful lot without actually addressing the point I was making..

Who appoints the peoples council? Someone neck deep in corruption? Is it done through a ballot system? Will there be transparency as to whom these candidates will be, who will they be accountable to??

Nepotism all the way in this case, you agreed 100% with the forum, and yet cannot answer the question, instead you try to belittle me by making out that somehow you're "better" than me, I don't really care to be honest, up to you, but my point is you will never ever get rid of Nepotism, it's like corruption, it's a way of life.

What's the first thing you do, when you take over a position of responsibility ? Most people bring in someone they can trust, happens all the time in my line of work, as it does all over the place, normally you're right hand man has been with you long enough to know how you work, and is there as an extension of yourself.

[crapper3]

This is exactly the problem. Jobs for friends and family with no qualifications and experience over those with both.

The forum is 100% correct

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

And who exactly gets to chose the peoples council and how will it be done? through votes?? surely not? Nepotism is alright as long as we're doing it eh??

Only someone with the intellect of a boiled haggis could assume that by despising nepotism and corruption and wanting reform that I somehow support the appointment of a "people's council"

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

And yet you failed to answer the opening question, so are you just going to attempt to insult my intellect, or answer it??

Did I say YOU supported it? you make the assumption, but if the cap fits I guess ..

You assumed an awful lot without actually addressing the point I was making..

Who appoints the peoples council? Someone neck deep in corruption? Is it done through a ballot system? Will there be transparency as to whom these candidates will be, who will they be accountable to??

Nepotism all the way in this case, you agreed 100% with the forum, and yet cannot answer the question, instead you try to belittle me by making out that somehow you're "better" than me, I don't really care to be honest, up to you, but my point is you will never ever get rid of Nepotism, it's like corruption, it's a way of life.

What's the first thing you do, when you take over a position of responsibility ? Most people bring in someone they can trust, happens all the time in my line of work, as it does all over the place, normally you're right hand man has been with you long enough to know how you work, and is there as an extension of yourself.

Actually it is you that are making baseless assumptions here.

The idea of the people's council floated by the PDRC was to be elected and appointed by a committee made up of people from all walks of life, academics, lawyers, existing MPs (including those of the PTP) heath workers, police etc etc...

At no time was it announced it would be picked by a person neck deep in corruption whoever that is.... Yingluck perhaps?

I agree with Thai Spot.

[fab4]

I fail to see how any of the proposed "reforms" talked about here necessitated the illegal "blockade" of an election, it's subsequent nullification by 6 judges and the dismantling of democracy.

All of this could be discussed outside of the parliamentary system after an election - none of these "reforms" have relevance to an election.

[ginjag]

I fail to see how any of the proposed "reforms" talked about here necessitated the illegal "blockade" of an election, it's subsequent nullification by 6 judges and the dismantling of democracy.

All of this could be discussed outside of the parliamentary system after an election - none of these "reforms" have relevance to an election.

You mean keeping a corrupt government in power and then reforms, NOT ON YOUR NELLY, ---AFTER the courts have come up with their verdicts.

So your employee gets his fingers in the till you keep in on, No way, get rid and ask how to stop the fingers getting in the till. (reform)

[comeondoit]

The bureaucracy needs to be reformed with a system to prevent...interference by politicians

Impossible...goes against the laws of the universe...such a system does not exist in any country.

it is not the system to be reformed.the politicians must be reformed to be honest and serve the people, then the system will be ok

[Fat Haggis]

Who elects these people ? elected and appointed by whom? who chooses this committee? that is what I'm asking, makes no odds to me, I'm just the Farang like most people, who don't have a say in how the Thais ru(i)n their country

So my baseless assumption would be that Mr Moonbeam comes down from Planet Zog, and then reaches out and touches these "chosen few" ??

So in essence it would be an non elected group of people, self electing another group of people, that would run the country to reform the election process among st other issues?

Would be better then to have a military cuop and let the people with the guns chose.. and they'd used what to appoint the next Cabinet? Nepotism or a bucket full of ping pong balls filled with MP's names on them??

As I said, Nepotism, and Corruption are a way of life, and if the Farangs that have lived in Thailand for decades, they'd surely know this to be the case too.

It's a cultural thing, what I'm getting at is that yeah they're wrong on so many accounts, but they're part of the culture, and no amount of bitching and moaning by a few disgruntled farangs on a forum is going to change it.

Great if the Thais can rid the country of them both, but when neither side can agree on the colour of sh*te, that's a long long road and mountain to climb into the bargain.

[ginjag]

Who elects these people ? elected and appointed by whom? who chooses this committee? that is what I'm asking, makes no odds to me, I'm just the Farang like most people, who don't have a say in how the Thais ru(i)n their country

So my baseless assumption would be that Mr Moonbeam comes down from Planet Zog, and then reaches out and touches these "chosen few" ??

So in essence it would be an non elected group of people, self electing another group of people, that would run the country to reform the election process among st other issues?

Would be better then to have a military cuop and let the people with the guns chose.. and they'd used what to appoint the next Cabinet? Nepotism or a bucket full of ping pong balls filled with MP's names on them??

As I said, Nepotism, and Corruption are a way of life, and if the Farangs that have lived in Thailand for decades, they'd surely know this to be the case too.

It's a cultural thing, what I'm getting at is that yeah they're wrong on so many accounts, but they're part of the culture, and no amount of bitching and moaning by a few disgruntled farangs on a forum is going to change it.

Great if the Thais can rid the country of them both, but when neither side can agree on the colour of sh*te, that's a long long road and mountain to climb into the bargain.

The top person in this land, has a daughter who would run this government, Perfect, good sound background and a knowledge of Thailand second to none, similar to our lady in Burma.

[moonao]

Reform is also needed to stop yellow shirt interests stacking so called "independent" organisations (that have power to dissolve elected political parties) with their cronies.

[HonestQuietBob]

Who elects these people ? elected and appointed by whom? who chooses this committee? that is what I'm asking, makes no odds to me, I'm just the Farang like most people, who don't have a say in how the Thais ru(i)n their country

So my baseless assumption would be that Mr Moonbeam comes down from Planet Zog, and then reaches out and touches these "chosen few" ??

So in essence it would be an non elected group of people, self electing another group of people, that would run the country to reform the election process among st other issues?

Would be better then to have a military cuop and let the people with the guns chose.. and they'd used what to appoint the next Cabinet? Nepotism or a bucket full of ping pong balls filled with MP's names on them??

As I said, Nepotism, and Corruption are a way of life, and if the Farangs that have lived in Thailand for decades, they'd surely know this to be the case too.

It's a cultural thing, what I'm getting at is that yeah they're wrong on so many accounts, but they're part of the culture, and no amount of bitching and moaning by a few disgruntled farangs on a forum is going to change it.

Great if the Thais can rid the country of them both, but when neither side can agree on the colour of sh*te, that's a long long road and mountain to climb into the bargain.

The top person in this land, has a daughter who would run this government, Perfect, good sound background and a knowledge of Thailand second to none, similar to our lady in Burma.

Seems to me you need an education regarding the separation of the roles of institutions in this society

[Fat Haggis]

Yep, I don't think there's anyone who doesn't agree there has to be some form of change, the impasse is the problem, there's no winners here just now.

Last thing that's needed is for violent clashes akin to 2010, there's been enough blood shed, and both sides need to see that it's the common people, and by that I mean the non elected, ordinary Thai folks that are suffering.

The current Government is got more twist in it than a Viennese Whirl, and has run its course, no problems with that, it's the method of removing them that I don't really care for, in most cases they'd be voted out, and it's all about the majority, all the talk of banning the PTP seems to be a way to silence that majority, that's hardly democratic.

Heads need to be knocked together soon!!