Shocking use of violence and force on my Norwegian son and Thai students at Thai primary school

[ThaiTbone]

I posted in lawyers section first, but i guess its more accurate posting here to get some advice about how to follow this up.

In May 2013 I let my six year old Norwegian-Thai son for a period of time move from Norway to Khampheng Phet to live with his mother as I were applying and planning on getting a job offshore. My son who is seven years old now has lived most of his earlier life in Phuket with me and his mother in two separate homes, one week with her and one week with me. As a result of that he is very comfortable among Thai people and the Thai culture. He went to an international kindergarden in Phuket for about 3 years which was a great time for him. The last two years up till 2013 when he lived with me in Norway he continued his schooling in a high standard kindergarden/pre-school where he enjoyed it all the time and also performed very well.

So when he moved to Khampheng Phet he did not attend the local Thai elementary school right away as his mother didn’t let he attend there before January 2014, and which is when it begun. Sadly because of some disagreements in October 2013 between his mother and me, she decided to cut off the daily contact between me and my son which resulted in me not being very well informed about the issues going on Khampheng Phet. My son though, did manage to contact me a couple of times through his Ipad on short calls telling me the Thai school was brutal and hard, but it was not before last week after he was back living with me in Norway that I got him to tell the whole story and could see how traumatized he was and how much he has suffered from being in that school. He has only been back living with me for about 3 weeks but has cried many tears explaining what happened there and how much in fear he is of the actual Thai school and some of its teachers.

In details he have told me how the teachers systematically punish and hit all kids with sticks if they don’t listen, not doing their homework or other small things kids are up too. He has accurately described to me the size and shape of the sticks they use to punish and how hard they hit. Explained well how they hit them over their fingers, their legs, thighs, butts and head. Also when I played with him some days ago in Norway i was shocked when he told me; “don’t touch me so hard on the right side of my chest. It still hurts inside after one teacher slapped me so hard on my upper side of the chest”

He also told me from his very first day at the school when he wasn’t familiar with the system there, not spoke very well Thai and where he came out to do something wrong and failed to do something the teacher told him to do. The result was that he was hit very hard with a stick on top of his head.

More he has told me when going to the toilet in the middle of class time he always heard the sound from other classrooms where teachers were smashing their sticks hard onto things and hitting kids as he heard them crying. The sounds from it he said went shivering down his spine.

Also during his time at school he was bullied by Thai kids teaming up on him and blaming him so he got punished for things he didn’t do. They also tried to beat him up and on several occasions and used homemade guns shooting on him without teachers doing nothing even they knew. Though its irrelevant, my son is a taller and physically stronger kid than the Thai kids at his age and fought back the best he could.

To get an idea about how much it has affected him, he has told me that he never want to go back there or even near that place even he have family members living there who he loves. We are going to Thailand for a few weeks in a week time and I have had to guarantee him that we will not go there and that he only want to be in Phuket where we lived before. And he said if ever again attending a Thai school it must be in an international school and where a police station must located in the next building so they can deal with cruel teachers like he had. He has lost a lot of confidence about the educational system and are constantly asking me why they are so cruel to the kids, and they can not just tell kids to sit on a chair in a corner or be told to leave class if some being difficult.

So what now? I cannot accept such cruelty from teachers where kids are involved, so I am prepared to address this issue, and the specific school to the highest authority of education in Thailand.

So I would like to hear what members here recommend me to do and where to begin or if someone has similar stories. I am thinking a formal letter from a reputable lawyers office to the ministery of education with copies to some major national news institutions and also to the Amphur of the district where the school belongs to. My son remembers and knows the names of the actual teachers behind it.

[benalibina]

Never heard anything like this or read about it on this forum.

Without really knowing ur familysituation exactly and about your workingsituation, apart from what u wrote, i would make sure 1st of all that ur son stays with u on a daily basis. Based on what u wrote that needs adapting from u. The more alarming fact, although you did not mention this, is that for his mother it is apparantly ok. As it happened not as an incident but routinely. I would assume that your son has told her, and fammembers about it. You better focus yourself on clearing all that before taking the steps as you indicated.

If the above is non applicable, i would try to get in touch with other parents kids to see if they are aware of what is happening at said school, and if yes, what their thoughts are about it. Continue from there. I doubt though that you, as being a foreigner, alone will be able to achieve something but surely it is worth trying to stop this behaviour by people with who children should be safe with. I truly feel for your son and should be proud of him for opening up to you.

Best of luck !

[wolfmanjack]

Good idea to have a lawyer write letters and take action.

There is no excuse for such behavior by teachers and I am pretty sure it is illegal.

When i took my kids to thai school I informed the teachers and the principal that if the kids needed disciplined for them to call me and i would do it. No teacher was allowed to hit my kids and none did.

[scott1999]

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Never heard anything like this or read about it on this forum.

Without really knowing ur familysituation exactly and about your workingsituation, apart from what u wrote, i would make sure 1st of all that ur son stays with u on a daily basis. Based on what u wrote that needs adapting from u. The more alarming fact, although you did not mention this, is that for his mother it is apparantly ok. As it happened not as an incident but routinely. I would assume that your son has told her, and fammembers about it. You better focus yourself on clearing all that before taking the steps as you indicated.

If the above is non applicable, i would try to get in touch with other parents kids to see if they are aware of what is happening at said school, and if yes, what their thoughts are about it. Continue from there. I doubt though that you, as being a foreigner, alone will be able to achieve something but surely it is worth trying to stop this behaviour by people with who children should be safe with. I truly feel for your son and should be proud of him for opening up to you.

Best of luck !

Good idea to have a lawyer write letters and take action.

There is no excuse for such behavior by teachers and I am pretty sure it is illegal.

When i took my kids to thai school I informed the teachers and the principal that if the kids needed disciplined for them to call me and i would do it. No teacher was allowed to hit my kids and none did.

Hi ThaiTbone.

Very nicely written, but as Mr. (P) has said; the mother seems to be OK with the schools actions? The mother would have been the person signing in your child to the said school. So if the mother does not (back you up) then I fear you have little chance with the school. I agree with what has been said above, "never let your child out of your sight while in Thailand." Or you may end up like me. Be careful trust no one. Good luck anyway. Please let us know how you get on.

Edited March 26, 2014 by scott1999

[eezergood]

Hope the little guy recovers from this ordeal, again this is not intended to start a flame war etc.. but if I had conclusive proof of such acts, if the school did nothing I would seek retribution else where!

[EyesWideOpen]

Good idea to have a lawyer write letters and take action.

There is no excuse for such behavior by teachers and I am pretty sure it is illegal.

When i took my kids to thai school I informed the teachers and the principal that if the kids needed disciplined for them to call me and i would do it. No teacher was allowed to hit my kids and none did.

That is what I do. I am 6 foot 7 inches tall, and when my daughter enters a new classroom I make it perfectly clear in a polite way that NO ONE is to hit her. Better to be clear up front, than become really angry later if she is struck by a teacher... If my daughter came home with bruises from school, not

sure exactly what I would do, but it would not be pretty.....

[ThaiTbone]

I have had a short talk with him today where I specifically asked him about what his mother said when he told her. He said she told him it is this way in Thailand so students will behave and remember. When he then told her that it really hurts, he said she didn’t answer.

His mother definitely accepts a more violent way in child raise. Last year after he moved to her I can recall he told me his mother had hit him with those thin metal clothes hangers and I confronted her with it. Her answer was that he was not behaving well. My son told me this again now and that she had hit him several times with them but not so often. More often she had hit him hard on his butt and arms till he cried.

Just to understand, his mother and I have had terrible communication since last October so I never really understood what was going on at the school. Because I felt I lost communication with my son is also the reason for why he is back to live with me now. For me its totally inacceptable to use a kid as a tool if two parents have disagreements. Even we had one incident when we lived together and where she attacked me with her nails all over my body I didn’t think of her being violent towards our son could be a problem. The few years we lived together I always told her that violent behaviour towards any kid when raising them would not be ok ok and that they could be dealt with a different way.

About getting in touch with other parents there and I think its almost impossible for me to do or gain something from it. It’s a pretty closed community of 300 people and with no luk-krung kids. I don’t know anyone there other than my sons grandmother (who also have hit him sometimes he told me) and his uncle who is just is nice to him. I have also only been there once in my life. I think a small thai community would never support my case if I showed up out of nowhere to give the local school some beating. But for sure, had I lived there and I would have made it very clear towards the schools teachers and its management that they are not allowed to hit my son.

As I up to recently lived 10 years in Thailand I have heard some similar stories. Some from media, on Youtube and also heard from a few Thai friends about similar punishment and corrections. Still I choose to believe this school is one of few that has more of it. Maybe this school have developed a bad culture there. I don’t know. He also told me one teacher threw a chair in the wall while screaming. They got really scared.

For sure all this its illegal and not according to the Thai Ministery of Education; my thai fiancé and I have talked about it and she told me she have seen many stories in the media about this and where some teachers actually have end up in jail too.

[cooked]

The reluctance of Thais to 'make waves' is one reason why it is difficult to get anything done about stuff like this. We have no problems like this at all in the private school we use, if anything they are too lax.

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[eezergood]

I would simply be making sure he does not ever go back, simply no excuse to have such violence against kids!

[ThaiTbone]

I have promised him he will never go back there to attend school or go back without me. Later when he is older he might do. I think its better if his family will come to see him when he is on holiday in Thailand.

Next step now will be to locate a good lawyer and have them lay out a good letter.

Edited March 27, 2014 by ThaiTbone

[Patsycat]

What a brave little boy to be able to open up to you about this horrific time he had at school. Hopefully it will not make him feel frightened to go back to school to learn with decent teachers who want to teach, not just take out their problems and insecurities on innocent children.

Good luck to him.

[eezergood]

What a brave little boy to be able to open up to you about this horrific time he had at school. Hopefully it will not make him feel frightened to go back to school to learn with decent teachers who want to teach, not just take out their problems and insecurities on innocent children.

Good luck to him.

Brave yes, but I think lots of the credit must go to the father - he has instilled a level of trust into his son that allows him to be so! Well done and good luck mate!

[billd766]

I have just asked my son who is 9 if it has ever happened to him or his friends and he tells me that it does not.

He is also in a school in Khampaeng Phet and has been there 3 years with nothing like this happening. It did not happen in the school that he was in before on the outskirts of KPP either.

My neighbours eldest daughter is in the same class and she has not heard of it happening either. AFAIK the youngest daughter (in a different school) has not had this happen either.

I know that there are a few schools in KPP and it could be a different school completely but I can report from my son and his friends experience only.

[ThaiTbone]

I am very close to my son as up to last year we lived alone in Norway for a couple of years. Before that he lived about 60% with me from he was 2 1/2. From what I ve heard it was more of this in Thailand before but today most most schools doesnt dicipline their studenst this way. I think if you ask around with your really good Thai friends or older people and they will tell you teachers diciplined Thai students often this way before. But to what degree or with what force each teacher used their sticks on a kid I dont know.

You dont really have to wonder if it happens or not, its enough videos on youtube covering this problem in thai schools

"Thai teacher canes student for no home work"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt_3mDPJbR0

"Cell Phone Video: Thai Teacher Hits Students?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFSDlm0lHBc

"Teachers dicipline students in rural Thailand"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfO_qfPBapI

This was exactly what my son told me happened to other students if they didnt do homework. My son was never diciplined though as he always had done his homework.

Edited March 28, 2014 by ThaiTbone

[djayz]

So, what's wrong with a bit of punishment? We've all gone through it and it has made (the most of) us into upright, honest and good citizens. I'd congratulate any teacher in Thailand (on any other country for that matter) for teaching my kids a bit of discipline.

Why have we gone soft in the West?!

[cooked]

So, what's wrong with a bit of punishment? We've all gone through it and it has made (the most of) us into upright, honest and good citizens. I'd congratulate any teacher in Thailand (on any other country for that matter) for teaching my kids a bit of discipline.

Why have we gone soft in the West?!

You are of course joking . Hitting kids is an excuse for not being able to maintain discipline.

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[benalibina]

So, what's wrong with a bit of punishment? We've all gone through it and it has made (the most of) us into upright, honest and good citizens. I'd congratulate any teacher in Thailand (on any other country for that matter) for teaching my kids a bit of discipline.

Why have we gone soft in the West?!

You are of course joking . Hitting kids is an excuse for not being able to maintain discipline.

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Especially not somebody else's kids.

[andrew55]

So, what's wrong with a bit of punishment? We've all gone through it and it has made (the most of) us into upright, honest and good citizens. I'd congratulate any teacher in Thailand (on any other country for that matter) for teaching my kids a bit of discipline.

Why have we gone soft in the West?!

You are of course joking . Hitting kids is an excuse for not being able to maintain discipline.

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Especially not somebody else's kids.

Nothing wrong with discipline and punishment as a consequence of unacceptable behaviour. I just can't see that punishments need to involve a violent act.

My 29yo daughter was never hit and is a very upright, honest and good citizen.

Edited March 28, 2014 by andrew55

[shadmo63]

So, what's wrong with a bit of punishment? We've all gone through it and it has made (the most of) us into upright, honest and good citizens. I'd congratulate any teacher in Thailand (on any other country for that matter) for teaching my kids a bit of discipline.

Why have we gone soft in the West?!

Oh djayz you just lost me. I will not be taking any advice from you again that's for sure. My two daughters 21 and 16 have never been hit by me, there are so many other ways to keep them in line. I went to catholic boarding school and was thrashed, usually for smoking, countless times by chain smoking frustrated old pedophiles. A lot of good it did me, I hate the church and I have just given up the cigarettes after 35 years.

[I Like Thai]

If your son is still in pain. Why have you not taken him to the Doctor ?

Why would you risk returning to Thailand with your son next week ? especially if the mother is as violent as you suggest as well as the teachers

[bender92]

Just stay in Norway.

[Borzandy]

In Thailand, only international schools could be considered as a real school.

[brianP]

My boy too, has had some stick lessons in his private school. I was raised in a heavy handed environment. But it gave me a vivid cause and effect association that clarified my actions would be accountable. I was hyperactive and was cut off sugar and sweets. My old man refused to have me take those medicines of the day. I found being outdoors and active and thinking before doing or saying impulsive things helped. It might have made me stealthier in my bad behavior, but i never forgot the wrath of being caught and dealt with imminent immediacy. In this day and age of instant gratification and lack of structured guidance. I wonder if these kids are better off having things Carte Blanche!

[Mc3103]

In the current school I work at the teachers have no problem hitting the kindergarten students. Canes, rulers anything goes. I have tried to bring it up with the head foreign teacher but nothing gets done. Its border line, if not completely abusive.

[NoshowJones]

Good idea to have a lawyer write letters and take action.

There is no excuse for such behavior by teachers and I am pretty sure it is illegal.

When i took my kids to thai school I informed the teachers and the principal that if the kids needed disciplined for them to call me and i would do it. No teacher was allowed to hit my kids and none did.

It is illegal to hit kids in Thai schools. I worked in a Prathom school for two years, and never once did I see or hear about any teachers hitting kids. but unfortunately, the word illegal means nothing in Thailand, all I can say is I hope everything works out for you and your son. Good luck.

[NoshowJones]

So, what's wrong with a bit of punishment? We've all gone through it and it has made (the most of) us into upright, honest and good citizens. I'd congratulate any teacher in Thailand (on any other country for that matter) for teaching my kids a bit of discipline.

Why have we gone soft in the West?!

What a dreadful post, you think it is OK to beat children with sticks. That is what you are implying.I am not against punishment, but violence?? I sure pity your children.

[crazykopite]

I always remember whilst staying on Koh Phangan a woman taking a very thin branch of a tree and whipping a young girl with it at first the girl did not cry but as the lashes got harder and more severe the girl who I would say was 7 maybe 8 started screaming such was my wife's horror she begged the lady to stop indeed we even offered to pay her to stop she just laughed and walked off dragging the girl behind her we had never witnessed such violence . When discussing this with a Thai friend he explained that the mother most probably came from a farm in the North of Thailand and would have been treated in the same way so would not know any better . I will never forget that day watching my wife in tears begging this woman to stop such brutal treatment to a helpless child. I hope your son will get over this period of his life where he has been badly treated by a teacher.

[duanebigsby]

So, what's wrong with a bit of punishment? We've all gone through it and it has made (the most of) us into upright, honest and good citizens. I'd congratulate any teacher in Thailand (on any other country for that matter) for teaching my kids a bit of discipline.

Why have we gone soft in the West?!

Punishment is sending the student to his home room teacher's office and calling his mother.

Punishment is making the student stand in a corner facing the wall

.

Punishment is drawing horns on the chalkboard and make the kid stand there and tell the class "I'm a bad buffalo."

It is NEVER striking a child.

[eezergood]

If my child ever needs discipline, I will be the one to give it! Not somchai!

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[lucjoker]

In Thailand, only international schools could be considered as a real school.

you must be joking ?

The ex-postman,ex-gardener ......penniless in Thailand .....do the only thing they are allowed here ... teach children how to speak an english "slang" .

Later those children will not find good work here ,because they are as handicapped as their teachers,namely not be able to read and write thai language.

So they will work under the supervision of a young boy who speaks and reads and writes thai and english .And were did his boss learn thai ?

Not during the few hours a week in the expensive international school ,believe me . Only in a thai school off course. What the thai school does not teach him ,you have to teach him yourself.

You give him all the knowledge he needs ,travel to europe ( or where ever) in airplanes ,trains (not in thailand) ..... he will know how live is ab brought and by the age of 10 he will speak at least 3 languages,if not .....you failed !

And if you failed ...you will blame the school,the country,your wife .........or, you just not care and continue your 32 bht beer at the little thai shop house ,alone or with some other brave ones.

Don't react if you don't have kids here , please .