French resort manager, Ukrainian tour guide nabbed in work permit raids

[stevenl]

1. Yes, of course, to be legal you need the correct visas and a workpermit. And no, this is no bureaucratic nightmare at all.

2. 4 Thai per workpermit. Yes, if you want to make money in Thailand you also have to help the Thais.

3. No, nonsense.

4. No, nonsense.

I don't know how long you've been here but I have seen evidence of quite the opposite to say the least.<snip>

I have been running a legal business here now for over 10 years.

[user4674534]

A few years ago there was a story about a bar owner in Phuket who was arrested for sitting on the customer side of the bar and talking to customers. He was charged with working without a permit on the basis that he was actively "marketing" the bar while sitting and talking to customers. He was deported and lost everything.

It would seem that the laws are such that if you get on anyone's shit list anywhere, they can "tip off" authorities and have you busted and deported for essentially doing nothing. Perhaps someone wants your bar or guesthouse; perhaps your wife wants you gone; perhaps you didn't pay the local police enough... whatever. The fact is, there is NO protection under the law in Thailand. It doesn't matter if you have family here that you are supporting, that you are paying taxes here, hiring and paying Thai's an actual living wage, building a successful business, etc. Nothing matters; there is simply no protection under the law.

This man may have gotten on a black list for one or more very undesirable things--we cannot know. But what we can see and know is that the same thing could happen to most any of us if anyone had it out for us for any reason: an unhappy neighbor, envy, jealousy, an unhappy employee who was actually expected to work, etc. It is one of many things that make it difficult for me to be optimistic about Thailand's future.

There 'is' protection under Thai Law. It's called 'follow the law'. If you have all the correct permits etc, then you are legal.

[NamKangMan]

would love to know how many Thais work abroad illegally .... I know a lot in Germany already

Sorry, but this is not about how many Thais are working illegally in Germany and elsewhere..

Once they get caught, they'll also be send back where they came from. There are many ways to be legal, paying taxes, giving Thai nationals a job here.

I volunteered a Thai woman who became a tourist guide and had to study hard to be where she is now.

Why should foreigners have it easier than Thais. This is Thailand. Germany is Deutschland.-

"I volunteered a Thai woman who became a tourist guide and had to study hard to be where she is now." - so, she speaks fluent Russian, does she?

She's Thai and speaks a very good English, intermediate German and works for the tourist police. Please keep your junk at home. Thanks.

I hope she's Thai, otherwise she would be working illegally as a tourist guide, as that is an occupation reserved for Thai's only.

"and works for the tourist police" - is that supposed to give her more credibility????

I would be interested in what she actually had to "study" to become a tourist guide here. I bet she gets good commissions from all the shops she "guides" the tourists to.

[skorchio]

“In addition to being charged for working without a work permit, Mr Seigneurin was charged for not filing a list of guests currently staying at the resort with Phuket Immigration, which in this case would have included Ms Strizheus,” Lt Col Tianchai said.

So he's charged both with working illegally and not doing his job properly?

LMFAO!!!!

[Benmart]

Follow the law and one need not worry about work permit problems.

[onni4me]

1. Yes, of course, to be legal you need the correct visas and a workpermit. And no, this is no bureaucratic nightmare at all.

2. 4 Thai per workpermit. Yes, if you want to make money in Thailand you also have to help the Thais.

3. No, nonsense.

4. No, nonsense.

I don't know how long you've been here but I have seen evidence of quite the opposite to say the least.<snip>

I have been running a legal business here now for over 10 years.

And in all those 10 years you have never seen or experienced nothing suspicious or corrupt or paid one baht of tea money? You must be a real estate agent or used cars salesman...

[stevenl]

I don't know how long you've been here but I have seen evidence of quite the opposite to say the least.<snip>

I have been running a legal business here now for over 10 years.

And in all those 10 years you have never seen or experienced nothing suspicious or corrupt or paid one baht of tea money? You must be a real estate agent or used cars salesman...

I have never paid 1 Baht tea money.

As I said, be legal and you have no problems.

[rebelplatoon]

Sounds fine to me. I don't want tourists working illegally in my country either.

Besides of course the fact that where ever it is you come from they don't have to jump through all the legal hoops you have to here... Besides the fact that if any Thai goes to your country on a tourist visa can with no problem buy a car, house or whatever. The current system is to say the least a bit crippled by the fact you need an x number of Thais working for each "farang" (I say x number because it changes all the time) then you need a non O or B permit which sometimes they don't give unless you can show the work permit. It is all done to make it harder. Haven't seen any Chinese being arrested here yet....????!!! They run Guesthouses, coffee shops, laundry places etc. without a permit because they, and their family do most work themselves. All in all it puts people in a disadvantaged position. Then on the subject of entering guests in the log....I know lots of Thai run businesses that do not have full sheets or just pay an amount to not have to go through the motions. Nothing weird there.

[Wat dee]

A few years ago there was a story about a bar owner in Phuket who was arrested for sitting on the customer side of the bar and talking to customers. He was charged with working without a permit on the basis that he was actively "marketing" the bar while sitting and talking to customers. He was deported and lost everything.

It would seem that the laws are such that if you get on anyone's shit list anywhere, they can "tip off" authorities and have you busted and deported for essentially doing nothing. Perhaps someone wants your bar or guesthouse; perhaps your wife wants you gone; perhaps you didn't pay the local police enough... whatever. The fact is, there is NO protection under the law in Thailand. It doesn't matter if you have family here that you are supporting, that you are paying taxes here, hiring and paying Thai's an actual living wage, building a successful business, etc. Nothing matters; there is simply no protection under the law.

This man may have gotten on a black list for one or more very undesirable things--we cannot know. But what we can see and know is that the same thing could happen to most any of us if anyone had it out for us for any reason: an unhappy neighbor, envy, jealousy, an unhappy employee who was actually expected to work, etc. It is one of many things that make it difficult for me to be optimistic about Thailand's future.

Why Thailand should be any different from US, EU or rest of the world? Bar owners should have VP's if anywhere near the bar.

I liked the harrycallahan's post earlier, would you like foreigners bending the rules in "your" country!?

Thai's really can't win in TV. Enforcing the law, they are nazi's. Not doing it ,corrupt, lazy ,childlike idiots!

[davidmann]

you Marry Thai lady ,once the paper work is done ,the can work have freedom ,don't need to report to the police ,have there children educated Free in Europe ,have the same life as us ,you serve cup tea to a friend in Thailand after building a resort /home ,spending your life savings ,your a criminal ,of course if your thai ,shot ,beet monks which seems new low thats OK ,why stay ?

[DLP]

Well this topic has taken the spotlight off the kidnappers, which the police obviously can not find.

[larsjohnsson]

you Marry Thai lady ,once the paper work is done ,the can work have freedom ,don't need to report to the police ,have there children educated Free in Europe ,have the same life as us ,you serve cup tea to a friend in Thailand after building a resort /home ,spending your life savings ,your a criminal ,of course if your thai ,shot ,beet monks which seems new low thats OK ,why stay ?

That's not really true. A Thai person married to a person from my country (Sweden) will not have the same rights or life as a Swedish person in all things. And I'm sure it's the same in other European countries. Not until they get citizenship they will have the same rights.

But once the paper work is done here in Thailand you can also work. But they didn't do the paper work...

[Phuketboy]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

1. Yes, of course, to be legal you need the correct visas and a workpermit. And no, this is no bureaucratic nightmare at all.

2. 4 Thai per workpermit. Yes, if you want to make money in Thailand you also have to help the Thais.

3. No, nonsense.

4. No, nonsense.

I don't know how long you've been here but I have seen evidence of quite the opposite to say the least.<snip>

I have been running a legal business here now for over 10 years.

And in all those 10 years you have never seen or experienced nothing suspicious or corrupt or paid one baht of tea money? You must be a real estate agent or used cars salesman...

Running businesses here as well. It isn't very hard to keep things legal at all. It may cost a little to set everything up the first time round, but it's well worth it. I employ many Thai people across 3 different businesses set up under one company. 4 Thai people to one work permit. I also pay 7000 baht per month for a lawyer and accountant to make sure everything is done right and to keep me informed. Small price to pay and far more expensive in either UK or Australia, where I have businesses as well. No tea money is necessary and if anything should happen I have a lawyer on board to sort things out. It was only 4 mths ago I was trying to get my partner and daughter a partner visa in Australia so my daughter could study there. That was more of a nightmare and far more expensive than anything I have ever had to do here.

I have never paid 1 Baht tea money and don't have to, my partners uncle is a police officer here :-p

[Thai at Heart]

A few years ago there was a story about a bar owner in Phuket who was arrested for sitting on the customer side of the bar and talking to customers. He was charged with working without a permit on the basis that he was actively "marketing" the bar while sitting and talking to customers. He was deported and lost everything.

It would seem that the laws are such that if you get on anyone's shit list anywhere, they can "tip off" authorities and have you busted and deported for essentially doing nothing. Perhaps someone wants your bar or guesthouse; perhaps your wife wants you gone; perhaps you didn't pay the local police enough... whatever. The fact is, there is NO protection under the law in Thailand. It doesn't matter if you have family here that you are supporting, that you are paying taxes here, hiring and paying Thai's an actual living wage, building a successful business, etc. Nothing matters; there is simply no protection under the law.

This man may have gotten on a black list for one or more very undesirable things--we cannot know. But what we can see and know is that the same thing could happen to most any of us if anyone had it out for us for any reason: an unhappy neighbor, envy, jealousy, an unhappy employee who was actually expected to work, etc. It is one of many things that make it difficult for me to be optimistic about Thailand's future.

A friend of mine got raided by immigration a few years ago. He had built up a super pizza restaurant. Someone in immigration fancied making margheritas for a living, but he was all in order

They broke the rules. Silly boy. I don't know why people do it. Breaking the law is restricted to Thais.

[dezeure]

So glad I left that shithole... It was a good place many years ago but phuket got lost in its own corruption. Instead of focussing on their local mafia they tackle the farangs who are supplying jobs to their locals...

Keep going dying island. Soon they can all go back and plant rice...

Edited March 27, 2014 by dezeure

[thailandbeachisland]

IT might cost 500000+ to get rid of the problem...

[gbswales]

No one is pointing - how are we expected to identify the accused?

[Tbone]

Just Google " Wolfgang Ulrich - Pattaya" to see what will happen to you and your business if you become too succesful in Thailand. The classic "stitch-up" ! !

[SOTIRIOS]

....of course the deck is stacked against us....

...you invest your time and money...to make a living...with a work permit....you need to employ 4 Thais.....right off the bat you are at a disadvantage....

...arbitrary application of the law also does not help.....

[Tomtomtom69]

A few years ago there was a story about a bar owner in Phuket who was arrested for sitting on the customer side of the bar and talking to customers. He was charged with working without a permit on the basis that he was actively "marketing" the bar while sitting and talking to customers. He was deported and lost everything.

It would seem that the laws are such that if you get on anyone's shit list anywhere, they can "tip off" authorities and have you busted and deported for essentially doing nothing. Perhaps someone wants your bar or guesthouse; perhaps your wife wants you gone; perhaps you didn't pay the local police enough... whatever. The fact is, there is NO protection under the law in Thailand. It doesn't matter if you have family here that you are supporting, that you are paying taxes here, hiring and paying Thai's an actual living wage, building a successful business, etc. Nothing matters; there is simply no protection under the law.

This man may have gotten on a black list for one or more very undesirable things--we cannot know. But what we can see and know is that the same thing could happen to most any of us if anyone had it out for us for any reason: an unhappy neighbor, envy, jealousy, an unhappy employee who was actually expected to work, etc. It is one of many things that make it difficult for me to be optimistic about Thailand's future.

I believe there must have been a tip-off about this manager, I can't imagine a random inspection would have occurred as that's not what happens in Thailand (just like random inspections of bus brakes don't seem to be performed for example). Then again, even in countries like Australia, immigration needs to receive a tip-off about illegal workers in order to take action and launch a raid, it can't just go around harassing every foreign looking person not to mention that it wouldn't have the resources for such a pointless exercise anyway.

For future reference, this man should consider running a hotel in Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, China, basically any other country which allows him to easily run such a business without getting into the BS he got himself into here. Here in Thailand you almost never see any foreigner serving you in any sort of business, with the exception of perhaps Burmese gas/petrol station attendants and restaurant servers, and almost certainly never in a hotel setting (unlike in neighboring countries, where it's common).

Something tells me there's much more to this story...

[malm1943]

A few years ago there was a story about a bar owner in Phuket who was arrested for sitting on the customer side of the bar and talking to customers. He was charged with working without a permit on the basis that he was actively "marketing" the bar while sitting and talking to customers. He was deported and lost everything.

It would seem that the laws are such that if you get on anyone's shit list anywhere, they can "tip off" authorities and have you busted and deported for essentially doing nothing. Perhaps someone wants your bar or guesthouse; perhaps your wife wants you gone; perhaps you didn't pay the local police enough... whatever. The fact is, there is NO protection under the law in Thailand. It doesn't matter if you have family here that you are supporting, that you are paying taxes here, hiring and paying Thai's an actual living wage, building a successful business, etc. Nothing matters; there is simply no protection under the law.

This man may have gotten on a black list for one or more very undesirable things--we cannot know. But what we can see and know is that the same thing could happen to most any of us if anyone had it out for us for any reason: an unhappy neighbor, envy, jealousy, an unhappy employee who was actually expected to work, etc. It is one of many things that make it difficult for me to be optimistic about Thailand's future.

The bottom line is that this guy DID NOT HAVE a work permit which HE SHOULD HAVE, & hence the Thai authorities DID NOTHING WRONG.

[bigjules007]

Maybe, he forgot to send the monthly brown envelope to the boys in brown

[easybullet3]

how is this a story? there are LOADS of people getting deported for working illegally every day!!

what is unique about this?

[bigjules007]

how is this a story? there are LOADS of people getting deported for working illegally every day!!

what is unique about this?

Obviously the resort is under surveillance because of the kidnapping, so the authorities thought they may as well do something to re- imburse them for the tea money they have spent while working on the kidnapping case, so i guess they try and squeeze a few sheckles out of this poor old boy.

[Jim walker]

We all know the rules and its the same for everyone so break the rules you know the consequences so no need to complain when you get caught breaking the law.

[LivinginKata]

I have never paid 1 Baht tea money.

As I said, be legal and you have no problems.

I agree with Steven on this one. Never paid any tea money in 14 years business activities here in Thailand. Been asked, politely show our paperwork, they quickly go away for an easier mark. Mind you we have no connection to bar/resturant/guesthouse activities on a busy main street.

[bigjules007]

We all know the rules and its the same for everyone so break the rules you know the consequences so no need to complain when you get caught breaking the law.

Sorry Jim, but i totally disagree, its not the same for everyone in Thailand, it depends who you know and how much money you have to grease the palms of the authorities. I can make this statement through personal experience.

[Neeranam]

A few years ago there was a story about a bar owner in Phuket who was arrested for sitting on the customer side of the bar and talking to customers. He was charged with working without a permit on the basis that he was actively "marketing" the bar while sitting and talking to customers. He was deported and lost everything.

It would seem that the laws are such that if you get on anyone's shit list anywhere, they can "tip off" authorities and have you busted and deported for essentially doing nothing. Perhaps someone wants your bar or guesthouse; perhaps your wife wants you gone; perhaps you didn't pay the local police enough... whatever. The fact is, there is NO protection under the law in Thailand. It doesn't matter if you have family here that you are supporting, that you are paying taxes here, hiring and paying Thai's an actual living wage, building a successful business, etc. Nothing matters; there is simply no protection under the law.

This man may have gotten on a black list for one or more very undesirable things--we cannot know. But what we can see and know is that the same thing could happen to most any of us if anyone had it out for us for any reason: an unhappy neighbor, envy, jealousy, an unhappy employee who was actually expected to work, etc. It is one of many things that make it difficult for me to be optimistic about Thailand's future.

I actually prefer the way it works in Thailand than my home country, Scotland.

It's quite simple - if you want protection there are ways to get it. If you want to adhere to your "I must have the same rights I have in my own country" attitude, you will not survive and be happy here. Things are done differently here which is neither good nor bad.

[humqdpf]

Let me get this right; there is apparently some Western country where it is perfectly ok for a foreigner, who has no right to work, to take up employment without a work permit. Could someone tell me which country this is?

Many Western countries have a law whereby all hotel guests must be registered and their names and passport numbers or ID numbers passed to the police. If the owner of the hotel does not comply, he or she is charged and punished. Thailand has such a law. Why should the Thais not apply the law too?

The missing Russian tourist was apparently not registered and therefore her presence not reported to the police. Had the police known about her presence, the outcome might have been different.

We cannot complain that Thailand has laws that are very similar to those of Western countries. We also cannot complain when an expat is charged with breaking them when he has, prima facie, allegedly done so.

There is undoubtedly a completely separate complaint to be made, which is if the authorities carry out the law in the case of foreigners but not against some or all Thais. Best to point out the breaches of the application of the law rather than the cases where the law is properly applied.

Thailand is not the only country that tends to apply the law relentlessly to foreigners but less so to locals. I know of a number of cases in Western countries where this also occurred.

I have always adopted the rule that when I am in someone else's country, I strictly obey the rules - this has kept me out of trouble in the ten countries I have lived in so far.

[LivinginKata]

Off topic trolls removed.